How do you tell a lady you're going Dutch?

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

She proceeded to order the most expensive steak on the menu and didn’t even touch it, instead taking it home for her dog to eat.

She didnt SERIOUSLY tell you she was taking it home for her dog to eat, did SHE?

Regarding your original question: if its not addressed PRIOR to meeting for dinner then this is one of those topics that men instinctively know that no matter how logically you phrase it to a woman, the outcome will NOT be pleasent. She will s~~~ storm you with emotions, ugly faces, and the rest of the night will be VERY unenjoyable.

I have done it in the past. The situation was different though. I just wanted sex and she occasionally wanted to go out. I told her I cant afford it right now. “Dont worry about it, Ill get it”. It was actually f~~~ing great. She was a little bit older than me and seemed like the greatful type that LOVED having a younger guy around. Even let me pick where to go. This lady was the old world type: shed come over for sex I ran an errand I came home and she was folding my laundry. Happened twice. It was SO enjoyable.

Ive told other women “Im tight on cash right now” and we go dutch. I dont know if youve already made arrangements or how far down the road you are with the girl in question, but you could make it clear: “I dont believe in paying for women until/unless we are in a relationship” and that would be assuming you never wanted a relationship in the first place.

Or you could turn the tables on them and say “Me pay your half? Sorry, I dont believe in objectifying women; they are my equals”. That would be the most diplomatic approach and the path of least resistance.

Resident cynic.

[BDParticipant 1146]

I like the Amsterdam idea the most.

Why would you even want to eat dinner with an entitled woman? So you can small talk and pretend you care about her trivial self induced life problems? Don’t shrinks get paid to listen to s~~~ like that? And you’d willingly attend, for what, a slim chance at a piece of ass?

I ain’t paying anyone except a professional to spend time with me.

No dinner, she can come over for some drinks and ride the balogna pony. If she doesn’t want to just get to the point, she can hit the road.

Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Prefer Peace to Piece wrote:

You guys are quite correct- NEVER let a woman decide where to dine. It IS madness. I did this one time years ago, and she selected Ruth Criss’ Steakhouse (very expensive). She proceeded to order the most expensive steak on the menu and didn’t even touch it, instead taking it home for her dog to eat. (complete mangina back then) I laugh about it now. But you do have to be wary of the entitled gold digging American flowers out there.

That’s why my solution has worked perfectly ever since 2006 when I dated my first “all american gold digger”. She was UN F~~~ING believable. Mind you, she was gorgeous too. Like Terry Hatcher circa 1996 gorgeous. She behaved like her Ex was Aristotle Onasis, and she dominated the wine list as if she grew her own grapes…. but she wouldn’t have known the difference between a $ 200 Opus One and the $ 6 generic pope’s blood Chianti from the bottom of the list.

NEVER f~~~ing let a woman order. I actually LEFT HER THERE. It was the first first date I ever walked out on in less than 15 minutes. I was done. DONE. She permanently finished me off. Oh I still dated but the poor girls have no chance. NONE.

I have not permitted an (American) woman to order from the menu since. OUT of the f~~~ing question. I have always wanted to taste Louis XIII cognac, and never even bought an ounce for myself. But when a woman (who I haven’t even f~~~ed yet!) throws darts at a wine list and picks the $ 24 / glass Barollo, she had better poor it over my sack before she starts lapping it up.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[TransactionaryParticipant 45]

I tell them that unless I am getting a handjob, blowjob, sex, or whatever they can buy their own meal providing for their own expenses.

I particularly like using that expression in the bar when a woman asks me to buy her a drink.

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Learn to tell women: “This is not a date.”

Instead of going on a one-on-one date, go to a group event. Women are herding creatures. They are a lot less comfortable freeloading when everyone else is paying their own way.

Like @keymaster says, if you’re paying then you’re damn well ordering.

Never wear a jacket into a restaurant. That way if you find you have to bail out halfway through you can do so without alerting her to your change in plans. Always have an exit strategy.

If you’re going to see a film or concert or similar, agree to meet her at the venue. Arrive early to go inside and get the best seats. Call from inside the auditorium to tell her you’re holding a seat for her. She can get her own ticket and snacks.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

sidecar wrote:

If you’re going to see a film or concert or similar, agree to meet her at the venue. Arrive early to go inside and get the best seats. Call from inside the auditorium to tell her you’re holding a seat for her. She can get her own ticket and snacks.

SO noted!

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Keymaster wrote:

SO noted!

Surely you of all people knew that one?

Always meet her inside the venue so you each have to buy your own ticket.

I think @frankone mentioned going to a park, well I’d like to add to that by suggesting going to a museum. Meet her inside the ticket office so you both pay your own way, or if it’s a free museum so much the better. If everything goes sour, you at least get to check out the museum, which is rewarding in its own way, and not just because it’s a museum. On a number of occasions I’ve left with a woman other than the one I was originally meeting there.

I am a firm believer in Feynman’s Law. However it also works if you flip it upside down:

: Feynman’s Law? That has nothing to do with physics. It’s basically: “Never buy anything for a woman you are considering having sex with.”
: … But you bought me lunch in the museum café…?
: Yes, I did.

In all likelihood she will trying to get into your pants before you even leave the museum. Assuming you don’t leave with someone else, that is.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Key Master,

She was UN F~~~ING believable. Mind you, she was gorgeous too. Like Terry Hatcher circa 1996 gorgeous. She behaved like her Ex was Aristotle Onasis, and she dominated the wine list as if she grew her own grapes…. but she wouldn’t have known the difference between a $ 200 Opus One and the $ 6 generic pope’s blood Chianti from the bottom of the list.

I wouldnt mind hearing the longer version of this story. Im sure others would enjoy as well. I know the date inly lasted 15 minutes but back drop and details? Sounds great.

Ive had women flat out ask me, in the heat of kissing, “what kind of car do you drive?”. I was FLOORED, this is when I was younger. Its f~~~ing amazing.

A stripper (ok this is LESS surprising) taking note when I emptied my pockets for a lap dance that my car key was to a Benz. The suprising part was a few weeks later its new years eve. Like 8-9 ish. I get a text from her. Shes looking to hang out but I dont recognize the number. I inquire who it is and she says ” this is AW the “benz guy, right”? The ironic thing is shes an attractive young chick and she has ZERO plans on new years eve. Its no wonder given her repulsive money grabbing attitude. “The benz guy” f~~~ off. I didnt reply.

Resident cynic.

[TheBardParticipant 974]

Keymaster wrote:

How do you tell a lady you’re going Dutch?
An American entitlement bitch (like this) will go out of her f~~~ing mind.

Notice how the women in that video talk about social norms of the man always paying and that is what they are supposed to do yet if they were told to stay home with their children instead of working because that is a social custom for women they would lose their s~~~. Typical women logic. Chivalry when it benefits them, sexism when it doesn’t.

Maillesmith wrote:

Dating as equals
First time I saw this, it was posted here. Seems like an applicable place to repost it

That video is great. All women who claim they want equality should be forced to watch it.

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

I am only going to date according to the “Dating as equals”/”A Feminist’s Dream Date” video. No freeloading off the Oneforfreedom!!!

[UmbreonParticipant 152]

I used to simply say “I’m going Dutch” at the start. If she doesn’t like it or “forgot her purse” she can go get her purse or walk away. Of course the ones who are cool with Dutch at first then soften you up by having you pay the tips then slowly make you start paying anyway, so it’s not worth it either way.

Better off eating alone or finding an old guy and talking with him as you both eat than dealing with paying the bill for two. Seriously- try chatting up the elderly guy sitting alone. Most of the time he will be glad for the company.

Beauty fades, dumb is forever.

[JollyMisanthropeParticipant 3356]

It’s kind of a s~~~ test for her. If she wants to go to an expensive place just tell her “ok, if you don’t mind paying the bill”. It’s direct and will nip things in the bud.

If she pulls the I left my purse at home s~~~, just excuse yourself from the table, tell the greeter at the front that she’s picking up the tab and then walk out. Sends a message loud and clear.

The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Prefer Peace to Piece wrote:

I know a lot of us generally avoid women on principle. But on those occasions where you do take a lady out for dinner,how do you tell a lady you’re going Dutch? Thanks gentlemen.

What is the point of doing the dinner, and who is deciding who is doing the dinner (the place to go, etc…)? I personally consider it poor form to spring going Dutch on someone who isn’t expecting it. And if you are the one picking out everything and deciding things, then it makes sense you pay. This isn’t a sex/gender issue, but basic manners. In addition, I believe in the form of showing power, people usually want to end up paying for a meal for all involved. This will normally end up producing a sense of obligation in the person who has dinner bought for them, and why it will be used by men to get women in bed. It is also used by companies that sell things in order to get you to be open to buying what they have. Going Dutch is a way to be freed of this obligation, in order to just enjoy the meal. There needs to be an expectation it is going Dutch, or it is poor form. Springing it on anyone after the meal is poor form also.

My take on basic rules is that, the one who controls all the decision-making pays, that includes picking the place out. Also, if you have a big difference in money, then the one who is in a stronger financial position pays more. If it is balance in things, then you can go Dutch, where you both agree.

I know with myself, with a church I attend, I will go out for lunch with a priest there (he is now retired). He will pay for lunch. He also will go out with other parishioners at church, and they buy him lunch.

Again, why are you going out with a lady? Is she an interesting conversation, or is it a tactic you want to use to get her to get to bed with her? Or, is it that you are just lonely for female companionship? Each of these will tell what is a best way to handle this.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Also, if you have a big difference in money, then the one who is in a stronger financial position pays more.

Oh I completely disagree with you. SO WHAT if there is a big difference in money, we’re both enjoying the meal equally, and we’re both having the same experience.

Also, it seems like your rule favors women over men. Consider that average American income is K, and that most women only date within or above their socioeconomic classes. A girl making K is not going to go out with an unemployed guy. She’ll only go out with someone making 50K or above. So by that logic, she will never have to pay more than the guy according to your rules. However, guys frequently go out with girls making less money than them. So by your logic, the guy will pay more than her.

Can you see how this is unfair?

AND, I would point out that if the girl is in a weaker financial position, it isn’t necessarily because of income. It’s because of all the stupid s~~~ in the form of Chanel, Coach (or however you spell it) bags, stupid shoestores in their closets, 20 gallons of make-up, etc. etc. Guys generally don’t spend that much on beauty products or accessories. So obviously they’ll be in a stronger position financially. So do we punish guys for being frugal spenders while rewarding women with free meals for being hyper consumers?

1. Tell the girl you’ll always go dutch and if she doesn’t bring her pursue or something, she’ll have to do the dishes at the restaurant. If she buggers out, good riddance.
2. Go and ask for separate checks from the waiter.
3. Pay your bill.
4. Profit.

None of this “you make more money than me”, or “I have a vagina,” or (and I s~~~ you not, I saw this online as a reason women give to make men pay) “I end up giving birth to babies!” NONE OF THIS CRAP. NO MORE.

[uchibenkeiParticipant 7965]

I usually deal exclusively with escorts so I don’t have this issue. I usually pay or try to pay for my male friends so I don’t mind paying for female friends if I think they would do the same for me. And they have. But if I’m with a new girl and I don’t want her to think there is a future, I ask for separate bills.

I bathe in the tears of single moms.

[WolveParticipant 191]

Anonymous wrote:

Wolve wrote:

I will welcome you happily in my home country just tell me when you’re coming it is a lot more fun talking with other MGTOW’s than going on a date anyways.

@wolf, I didn’t know you were from Holland, I was there in 2002 and loved the vacation, I wanted to turn around and go back after loathing the thought of returning to the states, my bro and I purchased mountain bikes and road around the city for 2 weeks, I met allot of people there, each with colorful stories. I think it’s amazing the hydro technology being used for hundreds of years, much more impressive than Venice Italy. I’ve heard Amsterdam called “the Venice of the north”, but I think Venice should be called the Amsterdam of the south!

Haha I just wish you would have dragged me away back then, would have saved my young ass a lot of problems later on and I just wish the people were as great as the Hyrdo technology makes them look just the women are damn sly I was hoping at one day traveling to the states to have a vacation there seeing all the problems there with my own eyes (was also considering Sweden but I don’t want to go to a country I can’t speak the language of)
But well that is ways off maybe I’ll see you then who knows.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I would say the main thing is to manage the expectations. Dutch isn’t a form of surprise to spring on anyone.

As far as the big difference in income, it isn’t required, but can happen. Individuals do like to treat others to things, and they like to pay. The ability to pay is a way to socially show off your superiority in the interaction. That is why the richer by a wide margin will end up paying. They get to control everything that way. What I do know is that to end up going to somewhere WAY out of someone’s league financially and have them pay, is really pushing it. I recall back in college, someone I ended up at a college near where I was. He wanted to go out for food every night, and have it be Dutch. I couldn’t afford it at all.

Now, you can say you always go Dutch as a rule, and if it is understood, that is fine. If you can get the woman to accept it, it is fine. But, I would agree here, there are gold diggers who expect to get free meals in exchange for attention and whatnot. Heck, I saw this fully when I tried to date a stripper. It was like hiring an escort and not getting anything. That was pure gold digger. I did want to see how that “wonderful” fantasy would go, and it was like watching a trainwreck. I actually dropped her before she was supposed to have a naughty get together with her other stripper friends. I was just watching it like watching a trainwreck. The amount of bull she tried to do, and disrespect. She did flat out say gold digger anyhow (she just wanted money), but I went along with it. She did make mention of wanting to get her boobs done, and as someone had said, “Guess who would of paid for it?” Yep, I would have.

I just say it is about having advertised boundaries you stick with that work with you, and use that as a filter for those you let into your life.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[EscapedMentalPatientParticipant 1489]

The last few dates I’ve been on, and I stress “Few”, I’ve made it hyper-simple.

I do it beforehand in the pre-conversation when the time-honoured tradition of Going To Dinner comes up.

I throw it in there very light-hearted and 100% genuine before closing the dialogue about “Going To Dinner”, right at the end. So there’s zero f~~~ing doubt.

“And yeah, let’s go Dutch to keep it simple.”

Or as a question that I answer myself, so there’s no room for debate. It’s one of their favourite tactics, employed on a regular basis.

“We going Dutch? Yeah, that’s a good idea, that way we don’t have to fumble for the cheque, right? Ok sounds good”.

Or keep it simple, dressed with humour.

“I’ll get this one. And you get your one. hahahaha”.

or further yet:

“I’ll pick up the tab. If you pick up mine hahahahahaha”.

or my all-time favourite:

“Ok, we’ll go to dinner. But you’ll have to pay. You don’t mind do you? I’m a little tight right now. Or even if you pick up your half, ok?”.

Because really, if they have any response other than “OK” or “Yes” or “Sounds Good” to any of the above…………do you really want to go on a f~~~ing date with them anyway?

If they answer with a “Really?”, you might be gracious enough to answer back with “Really”. Anything beyond that?

If it’s a deal breaker for them, even if you had full intention of paying anyway? Well then my friend, take a cab to your favourite restaurant by yourself, order TWO of what you were going to have for yourself, drink FOUR beer instead of two, and pretend you never met the c~~~. For dessert, you can look around the room at the manginas and simps taking it up the ass, and just smile to yourself. Have a whisky, and leave your waiter enough of a tip to buy himself a good foreign beer, and tell him his service was excellent and that you appreciated it. (unless of course he decided you weren’t worth effort).

Best of luck on your date.

[OldBillParticipant]

All the others have hit on the major points, but a summation here wouldn’t be amiss:

– If you ask her out, you pay. She’s your guest after all.
– If you pay, you order. She doesn’t get to pick her own “gift”
– If you don’t ask her out, impress on her that “It Is Not A Date” and that you’ll go dutch.
– If it’s an event like a concert, play, or movie, tell her you’ll meet her inside so she has to pay her own way.

All in all, you shouldn’t be asking any women out to begin with. Let them ask you out instead. It’s quite amusing to watch some strong and independent woman squirm and stammer. Be nonchalant and noncommittal. Let them sweat it out. When you two settle on a venue, flatly state that you’ll go dutch and that going dutch is non-negotiable. You needn’t make excuses, you needn’t worry about feelings. Tell the truth and let the chips fall as they may.

If she balks at going dutch or at any of the other suggestions here, shrug your shoulders, call it off, and say good-bye.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Author]

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