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Dark Kenshi 1 year ago.
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Anonymous38All fear can be overcome through self discipline and controlling ones thoughts. Fear directed and given order is fear eliminated.
Correct. I’ll only experience fear when facing a painful death, the mind’s first response before the survival instinct kicks in. But any other fears disappear when you simply understand and accept all consequences to actions.
Is the root of many of our ‘problems’.We fear ostracisation from the pack. Not being enough, being disrespected, being humiliated, being deserted.Anxiety, depression? These are fictions created in our minds due to fear. “Chemical imbalance” – don’t make me laugh.We fear loving because we fear the cost, and the risk in loving. The ‘cost’ or risk is usually related to others’ opinions of us, how we fear being left on the trash heap, again. Fear.What if you could see through all fear? I do believe one can reach a point of personal power wherein there is an absence of fear.It has taken me years but I am there. Years of standing alone, of deep introspection – understanding myself, others and the world around me. I know that most of the fear we have is pretty pathetic when it boils down to it. It’s all related to others’ perceptions of us and our own lack of self-worth.I don’t base my self-worth on the opinions of fools. I base it on my own reason and wisdom, which I am blessed with and have borrowed from some of the greatest minds (in the books I’ve read).Whoever sees through all fear will always be safe.Keep love in your hearts, don’t fear loving. Fear a life without love, indeed.But don’t get married, that’s just stupid.
Fear is also healthy, it makes you respect certain things that deserve it. Putting fear in perspective keeps you sane, alive and rational, versus irrational fear that paralyzes and holds you back for wrong reasons.
Fear is ignorance, ignorance is never healthy.
You ae incorrect. Sometimes it is, but not all fear is.
And what types of fear are not rooted in ignorance? Not putting ones hand on a stove because it will get burned is not fear, but rather common sense.All fear can be overcome through self discipline and controlling ones thoughts. Fear directed and given order is fear eliminated.
Agreed. I can only imagine fearing as a natural response, as in about to be eaten by an animal. But all other fears evaporate if you understand and accept all consequences to actions.
Knowing how to deal with the hungry animal, eliminates the fear.
Fear is ignorance.
I was 5 when i looked at death in the eyes . Blade to the throat . 6 months after my mother died when i was 10 i walked past him in the street after that trained . Fear a moment in time . Who will give a f~~~ in a thousand years . Life just a blink of an eye . We live trying to beleave death won’t come . Fear of death .
THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .
I was 5 when i looked at death in the eyes . Blade to the throat . 6 months after my mother died when i was 10 i walked past him in the street after that trained . Fear a moment in time . Who will give a f~~~ in a thousand years . Life just a blink of an eye . We live trying to beleave death won’t come . Fear of death .
<iframe width=”500″ height=”281″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/skiNUaOS3mg?feature=oembed” frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen=””></iframe>We are all strawdogs.
There is FEAR and there is Discomfort. I know I might not make much sense here, but if you don’t FEAR anything, then MGTOW philosophy is not really for you if you think rationally about it.
I can tell that some people here never spent any time in Jail or with the cops. I can tell you that your experience in JAIL was not like mine. I know fear. I know what it feels like to have multiple guns drawn ready to shoot you. I KNOW what PAIN feels like when you FACE is crushed to the ground and then having to walk on GLASS and SHarp stones.
I know what fear is when I was about to lose the only thing I had to sleep in San Jose.
I know what FEAR is when I was told they would not cash my Cashiers check at US BANK. (More on that later) And I know the FEAR of being F~~~ed over like the guy in the cell next to me.
You know what else I fear? Not being in control of my OWN life and how I die. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE FEAR. Not having any say about how you go or when you go.
If you had no fear, then You would not worry about what you eat, what you f~~~, you would just be a METH ADDICT. They really have no fear but not getting the drugs they want.
And overall, most of you that claim that you have no fear? That does not compute. Why are you not using your real name?
Maybe the meaning is lost to me, but if all those that claim they have no fear are talking about the feeling? Okay, I think I can understand that. But you still fear discomfort.
Its like me saying I don’t fear MGTOW.com going away. That BULLS~~~. I love you guys. (NO HOMO) But going MGTOW is not just a Economics choice. You been there f~~~ers. I know you had your f~~~ing soul torn apart. Only a few are honest about it. Cuz if you really had no fear, then that means you have been pushed over the edge.
Often times when I am driving around I wonder just how I would die If I could hit that wall? Would I? The only thing that stops me is that I don’t want my car f~~~ed up. I don’t want to be disabled. I sure as hell don’t want other people to suffer from my loss. Hell even now, I am not living for myself. And I doubt many Fathers are.
Even if you say you fear nothing, that sure does not make you more enlightened. Actually, I don’t think it is beneficial for a human being anyways.
Furthermore, like it or not, all of you men FEAR a woman and what she can do to your heart. You know its true since that is the only vulnerability you have. You don’t fear war, you may not fear death from doing your job or f~~~ing hookers while your mind is deep someplace else. But it is a nice mind trick to get you out of the battlefield. Or try to hang yourself, OR try to drink yourself to death like Gravel pit did.
See, its not fear that you should be trying to elevate yourself from . it’s the discomfort of that fear. There was a thread on Nihilism I think? Or Stoicism? In that you do not let fear cause you to have any reaction to that pain? Well… I think this guy said it best:
Even the explanations of it are kind of stupid. (TO ME)
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Okay so think about this, VIRTUE. Well, it sure does make a MAN feel good. But then what the HELL do you get JELLY when your wife is f~~~ing some other guy? Are you not happy for being so STOIC that you wish to enjoy your wife enjoying herself?
So why did you fear your wife leaving you? Or going to another man? How can you EXPLAIN THAT?
See, either you are not alive, or a ROCK or happen to be mentally f~~~ed, or you are just not willing to accept the truth that you are a fragile human being, and you are just fine having feelings. And you got to deal with them.
Like it or not, The fact you state that you as a person don’t give a f~~~ is not being fearless. Nor is it being stoic either.
I forgot the guy that goes “he has no emotions”. But that can’t be true, he tells jokes. GREAT ONES! You can’t have humor without fear. The very nature of a comedian is that without fear, he would not have a need to make people laugh. Hence why some of the most funny people (blade) have experience some of the worst pain possible.
Then you have people Like John Doe that try to rationalize all this with Science and Philosophy, but Gravel pit can see right through that s~~~.
Then you got A guy like me that is so scared I can’t even mention anything. Because as much as we all say we don’t care what people think about us, we DO,. and YOU DO TOO!
I know my Probation officers fears me since he no longer wishes to be my probation officer after he found out I have access to his logs. And I know the Office does as well since they saw that I used their Bluetooth and Mac Id’s of there Phones to track that them down all over the internet. Etc.
FEAR is the ONLY THING THAT MAKES YOU FEEL ALIVE. Without it, your as dumb as adam and steve. Honestly, How many of you are Homophobic?
Actually, if you had no fear, then the discomfort you will face in life will make it impossible to grow as a human being and reach the 6 levels of morality as cited by Lawrence Kohlberg? Or you fear jews, so you think it’s all bulls~~~
I don’t think I am 100% right, but I can’t be 100% wrong according to John Doe, so..
This is why the argument that you can overcome fear is kind of misleading or a Misnomer. it’s not fear that you have to overcome, its your experience of discomfort that you need to get over.
If you really had no fear, then why not just get on food stamps, get on welfare, and not worry about the IRS or the government taking your things you enjoy?
Hell just a while ago some tool was telling me how strong he was and how no fear he has, but then won’t buy a cheap house in Detroit?
I don’t get it. Most of you are ANONYMOUS but sure act like you are in the room with your close off naked.
And here is something to really make you think. If a GOD made you, did he do it because he feared being alone? It sure sounds like it.
And one more thing on that. And this is what Bothers me about those that praise god. Adman did not know he was naked, and did not know pain, but… He could feel Loneliness? That would mean that God was not enough for Adam. That may not be visible on the surface, but you have to wonder, what was this Wanting he was wanting for? Why did god not just make him another man? Why not make him some Friends? Why not have some Angeles around to keep him company?
For all the bad cred the Devil gets, at least he was nice enough to be around. They say the DEvil is in the shadows. But at least he is not always watching you pee. And this Pain and Brimstone and fire? Brother, have you EVER been COLD? I mean COLD like freezing Chocolate popsicle cold? Iced Carnage Sorbet. Fire and Brimstone don’t seem that bad since at least you have company.
So if you think about it, HELL can’t be such a bad place since if you think about it, the worst kind of hell at least to a a person who has faith would be the realization that God who loves you so much would rather have you burn in hell, but if you go to heaven, you will see your ex wife? Your best friend that was F~~~ING YOUR GIRL?
Oh Oh I forgot. It never mattered. Well then. I guess Cuckoldry is for you BRO! Lap that dudes Semen up. Its just like soy sauce Tapioca pudding or Taco bell I have been told.
And if you are John Doe? You might as well start Sucking dick at truck stops. You know VIRTUE RIGHT? What’s more virtous then giving a man a BLOW JOB! Do Homeless Meth addict men first cuz nothing is more virtuous than that. Don’t have fear of STD’s? your going to die anyway. And while your there, Lets support those DAMN MAPS! You know, lets be STOIC ABOUT IT! It does not effect you right? Its gods will, and GODS PLAN.
YUP. There is SIMPLY something wrong when MY VALUES feel a bit more tensile like steel or Brick then that floppy limp dick Crap that comes from some old book. Written by a Insent loving Pedophile that has so little value of human suffering, all he can offer is that “BRO, Just pray for me, and you get to go to heaven! YOU WILL LOVE IT THERE! PROMISE! I made this world JUST FOR YOU!
HOW THE F~~~ CAN YOU GO WRONG RIGHT?
I swear, for smart people, some of you sure are pretty dumb.And that, was THE most comprehensive and the most deep look into what fear is and possibly could be.
Discomfort is more often than not mistaken as fear. Fear is something you CANNOT get rid of it, all that you can do is keep an eye on the problem, prepare for it as best as you can and let things run their course.Mick, thanks a lot for that. I have a bit more to chew on, after reading your text. You can never be fully prepared, right?
Again, thanks a lot. I have food for thought for days!"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Relative to Imicky:
Fear is an absence of order within the individual. What fear is, is strictly an absense of the individual or group living fully. However, considering only order exists, the person who overcomes fear is a person creating themself.
All that truly exists is order, fear is strictly an absence of the self; hence the individual exists through creation of moral act. All moral act is a balance between extremes.
All extremes are a division of unity.
All morality is a creation of unity; hence morality, as a way of being, has an inherent rational if not mathematical nature to it.
Relative to Imicky:
Fear is an absence of order within the individual. What fear is, is strictly an absense of the individual or group living fully. However, considering only order exists, the person who overcomes fear is a person creating themself.
All that truly exists is order, fear is strictly an absence of the self; hence the individual exists through creation of moral act. All moral act is a balance between extremes.
All extremes are a division of unity.
All morality is a creation of unity; hence morality, as a way of being, has an inherent rational if not mathematical nature to it.You will one day know what fear is. You just have not looked it in the eyes. That is all.
When fear hit you in the face, you will remember my words.
You fear to have fear, and it makes you get into the stupidiest of the situations, just to prove that you are “fearless”.
Having fear, makes you scared s~~~less.
You CANNOT shut down your brain chemistry, sir. It is against the laws of nature.
No matter how “courageous” you think you are, that is just your nihilism and extreme disregard for your well-being, concoted together with your extreme fear of being afraid.You are not a machine, and you probably never will be. So don’t try to emulate one.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Relative to Imicky:Fear is an absence of order within the individual. What fear is, is strictly an absense of the individual or group living fully. However, considering only order exists, the person who overcomes fear is a person creating themself.All that truly exists is order, fear is strictly an absence of the self; hence the individual exists through creation of moral act. All moral act is a balance between extremes.All extremes are a division of unity.All morality is a creation of unity; hence morality, as a way of being, has an inherent rational if not mathematical nature to it.
You will one day know what fear is. You just have not looked it in the eyes. That is all.When fear hit you in the face, you will remember my words.You fear to have fear, and it makes you get into the stupidiest of the situations, just to prove that you are “fearless”.Having fear, makes you scared s~~~less.You CANNOT shut down your brain chemistry, sir. It is against the laws of nature.No matter how “courageous” you think you are, that is just your nihilism and extreme disregard for your well-being, concoted together with your extreme fear of being afraid.
You are not a machine, and you probably never will be. So don’t try to emulate one.You come off as full of fear, as if you need people to agree with you to justify who you are as a man. You really do not understand that you are a strawdog, and you can try all you want to save your own ass…but you are going to die like me and everyone else. It is unavoidable.
I am arguing that fear is a void in the self, and not actually a thing in itself. Fear is disorder. Disorder is an absence of being. Only being exists in the universality of it all.
Actually, I have faced various grades of fear, like everyone else.
1. I have had a knife pulled out on me before.
2. Been in various fights, in one case had to deal with a man who wanted to commit suicide.
3. Have to currently deal with my whole family, not a part, but whole remaining family dye from sickness and old age. A father who has congestive heart failure who can die any day, a mother with crippling arthritis, an aunt who is mentally ill, as well as an uncle who has congestive heart failure. This is my remaining family, as my brother is married and moved away to start his own life. Having to deal with one case where hospice/family was trying to kill a close relative and friend of mine.
4. Never knowing when I will get laid off in construction industry, as well as multiple injuries in my back that put to question whether I will be able to continue.
5. Had a ufo light up my room multiple times, with outside witnesses as well as a plague of predators and plague wipe out all the livestock on my family farm. Living in a haunted house and seeing ghosts.
6. The general uncertainty of a future, as a man, raised in an environment in which I will not be able to raise a family or follow basic natural law.
7. My family dealing with organized crime after them in my youth.
8. A potential lawsuit, I am currently exploring, against the Catholic Church for pscyhological and physical abuse during my time in seminary.
9. The PC environment in college university, where I am currently looking for a master’s and pursuing a possible seperate lawsuit for bias and prejudice relative to a rejection, which holds little of a future.
10. Being on a construction site where I have been locked on an overloaded element elevator the 17th and 18th floor, as well as having to work at various heights in scaffolding that cause vertigo for most. One messed up, and even with a harness, you get seriously injured (ie you b~~~~ popping out of there sack because of the harness).
11. Other more personal states, where one is just force to look at there own personal life and decisions they made physically, emotionally, mentally and having to take account for all the mess-ups they made.
12. The strong possibility, I may have no real future or life in this civilization that has no resemblance of meaning other than what I create, and knowing I will be fully alone the rest of my life.
13. Harrassment and death threats online (which are a very low grade), as well as a general war I am gearing up for with academia relative to my research I have put countless hours in…which may all go to a complete waste.
14. etc. various other stories, generally with people who want my head out of envy for something.
Throw in the fact I have done workout routines, to master my fear, where I could have potentially died (keeping my heartrate at 190 bpm for 45 plus minutes or topping it out at 215 approximately). Now is it wise to do such things? No, but lessons can be learned about self-discipline, etc.
Now the above examples are various grades, some lesser than other, however facing one’s annihilation (no matter how undramatic) is facing annihilation, whether instantaneous or drawn out.
And I am fine, tired, but I keep moving. When fear comes, because of some absence of reason or balance in the environment (as fears exist in various grades…some above are of greater depth and degree then others), it is negated by looking at the situation rationally for what it is.
There is no nihilism on my part, fear is overcomable…you just keep moving and in doing so you form yourself.
Now I am not arguing that I never was afraid, or never been in a situation that did not have some fear in it. However, with the practice of reason these fears can be put into perspective and negated. Fear is an absence of being, and to exist fully is to be moral.
You come off as full of fear, as if you need people to agree with you to justify who you are as a man. You really do not understand that you are a strawdog, and you can try all you want to save your own ass…but you are going to die like me and everyone else. It is unavoidable.
I am arguing that fear is a void in the self, and not actually a thing in itself. Fear is disorder. Disorder is an absence of being. Only being exists in the universality of it all.
Actually, I have faced various grades of fear, like everyone else.
1. I have had a knife pulled out on me before.
2. Been in various fights, in one case had to deal with a man who wanted to commit suicide.
3. Have to currently deal with my whole family, not a part, but whole remaining family dye from sickness and old age. A father who has congestive heart failure who can die any day, a mother with crippling arthritis, an aunt who is mentally ill, as well as an uncle who has congestive heart failure. This is my remaining family, as my brother is married and moved away to start his own life. Having to deal with one case where hospice/family was trying to kill a close relative and friend of mine.
4. Never knowing when I will get laid off in construction industry, as well as multiple injuries in my back that put to question whether I will be able to continue.
5. Had a ufo light up my room multiple times, with outside witnesses as well as a plague of predators and plague wipe out all the livestock on my family farm. Living in a haunted house and seeing ghosts.
6. The general uncertainty of a future, as a man, raised in an environment in which I will not be able to raise a family or follow basic natural law.
7. My family dealing with organized crime after them in my youth.
8. A potential lawsuit, I am currently exploring, against the Catholic Church for pscyhological and physical abuse during my time in seminary.
9. The PC environment in college university, where I am currently looking for a master’s and pursuing a possible seperate lawsuit for bias and prejudice relative to a rejection, which holds little of a future.
10. Being on a construction site where I have been locked on an overloaded element elevator the 17th and 18th floor, as well as having to work at various heights in scaffolding that cause vertigo for most. One messed up, and even with a harness, you get seriously injured (ie you b~~~~ popping out of there sack because of the harness).
11. Other more personal states, where one is just force to look at there own personal life and decisions they made physically, emotionally, mentally and having to take account for all the mess-ups they made.
12. The strong possibility, I may have no real future or life in this civilization that has no resemblance of meaning other than what I create, and knowing I will be fully alone the rest of my life.
13. Harrassment and death threats online (which are a very low grade), as well as a general war I am gearing up for with academia relative to my research I have put countless hours in…which may all go to a complete waste.
14. etc. various other stories, generally with people who want my head out of envy for something.
Throw in the fact I have done workout routines, to master my fear, where I could have potentially died (keeping my heartrate at 190 bpm for 45 plus minutes or topping it out at 215 approximately). Now is it wise to do such things? No, but lessons can be learned about self-discipline, etc.
Now the above examples are various grades, some lesser than other, however facing one’s annihilation (no matter how undramatic) is facing annihilation, whether instantaneous or drawn out.
And I am fine, tired, but I keep moving. When fear comes, because of some absence of reason or balance in the environment (as fears exist in various grades…some above are of greater depth and degree then others), it is negated by looking at the situation rationally for what it is.
There is no nihilism on my part, fear is overcomable…you just keep moving and in doing so you form yourself.
Now I am not arguing that I never was afraid, or never been in a situation that did not have some fear in it. However, with the practice of reason these fears can be put into perspective and negated. Fear is an absence of being, and to exist fully is to be moral.The only fear I have is to die a dog’s death, devoid of meaning. My own meaning.
I have fear, I don’t deny it, and I don’t try to hide it behind some metaphysical BS, or lie that “fear is ignorance”, when you clearly shown that you too, is full of fear. Everyone is. When you have been through the s~~~ I’ve been, you become specially numb, and that, is what kills you. Have seen that. Have seen in the eyes of men that were better than me becoming the “Rambo” soldier who got pretty convinced that they could not die, only to make a mistake and get killed. I’ve seen s~~~ you will never see in your life, and I volunteered for it. If I am alive today, is because I never ignored my fears, is because when fear came into scene, I took a good, hard look into it and found out that I was afraid, because Death was just around the corner, smiling at me and my squad mates.
I never feared for my life, but I was scared s~~~less of losing one of my brothers. Of looking their parents, siblings, wives, children, and telling them that their beloved was killed in a meaningless war, in a country far away, just because my government wanted a seat in the Defense Council of the UN. I was afraid that anyone of my mates could not handle the pressure from killing other humans, and suicided because of it.I was TRAINED to be fearless. I was DRILLED for YEARS to let go of my fear, and yet, I was afraid. Scared S~~~LESS.
And now, you also have said that you are afraid. You even made a neat list.
So why are you insisting that you are “not afraid”, and that it is all “confusion of an orderless mind”?
You know it is not ONLY that, it is way more. It is a chemical response of your mind, tied to your parasympathetic system responses. You can NEVER get rid of it, but you can train your reactions to what is happening. And that is all you can train. You know that.Anyway, thanks for sharing. Now we at least know you are not an A.I.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
You come off as full of fear, as if you need people to agree with you to justify who you are as a man. You really do not understand that you are a strawdog, and you can try all you want to save your own ass…but you are going to die like me and everyone else. It is unavoidable.I am arguing that fear is a void in the self, and not actually a thing in itself. Fear is disorder. Disorder is an absence of being. Only being exists in the universality of it all.Actually, I have faced various grades of fear, like everyone else.1. I have had a knife pulled out on me before.2. Been in various fights, in one case had to deal with a man who wanted to commit suicide.3. Have to currently deal with my whole family, not a part, but whole remaining family dye from sickness and old age. A father who has congestive heart failure who can die any day, a mother with crippling arthritis, an aunt who is mentally ill, as well as an uncle who has congestive heart failure. This is my remaining family, as my brother is married and moved away to start his own life. Having to deal with one case where hospice/family was trying to kill a close relative and friend of mine.4. Never knowing when I will get laid off in construction industry, as well as multiple injuries in my back that put to question whether I will be able to continue.5. Had a ufo light up my room multiple times, with outside witnesses as well as a plague of predators and plague wipe out all the livestock on my family farm. Living in a haunted house and seeing ghosts.6. The general uncertainty of a future, as a man, raised in an environment in which I will not be able to raise a family or follow basic natural law.7. My family dealing with organized crime after them in my youth.8. A potential lawsuit, I am currently exploring, against the Catholic Church for pscyhological and physical abuse during my time in seminary.9. The PC environment in college university, where I am currently looking for a master’s and pursuing a possible seperate lawsuit for bias and prejudice relative to a rejection, which holds little of a future.10. Being on a construction site where I have been locked on an overloaded element elevator the 17th and 18th floor, as well as having to work at various heights in scaffolding that cause vertigo for most. One messed up, and even with a harness, you get seriously injured (ie you b~~~~ popping out of there sack because of the harness).11. Other more personal states, where one is just force to look at there own personal life and decisions they made physically, emotionally, mentally and having to take account for all the mess-ups they made.12. The strong possibility, I may have no real future or life in this civilization that has no resemblance of meaning other than what I create, and knowing I will be fully alone the rest of my life.13. Harrassment and death threats online (which are a very low grade), as well as a general war I am gearing up for with academia relative to my research I have put countless hours in…which may all go to a complete waste.14. etc. various other stories, generally with people who want my head out of envy for something.Throw in the fact I have done workout routines, to master my fear, where I could have potentially died (keeping my heartrate at 190 bpm for 45 plus minutes or topping it out at 215 approximately). Now is it wise to do such things? No, but lessons can be learned about self-discipline, etc.Now the above examples are various grades, some lesser than other, however facing one’s annihilation (no matter how undramatic) is facing annihilation, whether instantaneous or drawn out.And I am fine, tired, but I keep moving. When fear comes, because of some absence of reason or balance in the environment (as fears exist in various grades…some above are of greater depth and degree then others), it is negated by looking at the situation rationally for what it is.There is no nihilism on my part, fear is overcomable…you just keep moving and in doing so you form yourself.Now I am not arguing that I never was afraid, or never been in a situation that did not have some fear in it. However, with the practice of reason these fears can be put into perspective and negated. Fear is an absence of being, and to exist fully is to be moral.
The only fear I have is to die a dog’s death, devoid of meaning. My own meaning.I have fear, I don’t deny it, and I don’t try to hide it behind some metaphysical BS, or lie that “fear is ignorance”, when you clearly shown that you too, is full of fear. Everyone is. When you have been through the s~~~ I’ve been, you become specially numb, and that, is what kills you. Have seen that. Have seen in the eyes of men that were better than me becoming the “Rambo” soldier who got pretty convinced that they could not die, only to make a mistake and get killed. I’ve seen s~~~ you will never see in your life, and I volunteered for it. If I am alive today, is because I never ignored my fears, is because when fear came into scene, I took a good, hard look into it and found out that I was afraid, because Death was just around the corner, smiling at me and my squad mates.I never feared for my life, but I was scared s~~~less of losing one of my brothers. Of looking their parents, siblings, wives, children, and telling them that their beloved was killed in a meaningless war, in a country far away, just because my government wanted a seat in the Defense Council of the UN. I was afraid that anyone of my mates could not handle the pressure from killing other humans, and suicided because of it.
I was TRAINED to be fearless. I was DRILLED for YEARS to let go of my fear, and yet, I was afraid. Scared S~~~LESS.And now, you also have said that you are afraid. You even made a neat list.So why are you insisting that you are “not afraid”, and that it is all “confusion of an orderless mind”?You know it is not ONLY that, it is way more. It is a chemical response of your mind, tied to your parasympathetic system responses. You can NEVER get rid of it, but you can train your reactions to what is happening. And that is all you can train. You know that.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. Now we at least know you are not an A.I.It is not really metaphysical bs if it exists as a perspective through which one exists. Even pursuing a life of hedonism still leads to a question, personal and at the group objective level, as to what the best route to pleasure is.
This still requires an act of reflection which in itself is metaphysics, ie “being que being”, a reflective act where reason is determined by its symmetry, its symmetry determined by the reptition of axioms (a line reflecting a line to form a geometric object or an emotion such as anger repeating itself though a violent action),
If you were trained to be fearless where you really trained well? And this is not a smart ass statement but a legitimate question. People join, I am assuming a militaristic type of organization, often times because they are afraid…for a variety of reasons subject to the individual (being alone, letting others expectations down, appearing weak, etc.).
People join the military because they are afraid and the fear multiplies. I am sorry you seen what you seen, but at the end of the day you made the choice. Don’t blame others for embracing a lifestyle you chose. I walked into the recruiter in college. He not only forgot my appointment but gave me wronf directions. I went for another meeting…and he forgot it as well. If the recruiter did not show up twice, when I was pretty much signing myself over to the government…what should I expect from how they will handle other decisions. Barring my unique experience one only has to look at the nature of the wars to find that I would not really be fighting for anything other than ego or some scholarship for a degree that means s~~~.
Now dont get me wrong, some guys have to join for some odd life reason, but they dont join to protect their brothers without a fear of being alone. They may join for x reasons and make brothers they fear for because they grow attached over time. The brothers become part of there identity and a loss of a brother is a loss of identity…a loss of the self.
In regards to what I seen? Decay and despair…not even a home worth fighting for…which is less rational which is worse? To fight for something, or to have nothing to fight for?
Your fear is premised on an absence of meaning. Meaning is an observation of order. Something is deemed meaningful if it directs to something else. One point directs itself to another and structure occurs.
This point is strictly an origin directing to another origin. This structure in itself is a point. Take for example me picking up a cup. It is a point of origin of one movement in time leading to another point of origin in time as me putting the cup down. One movement is directed to another. Me “moving” the cup exists as point of origin to me looking for a larger cup to use for coffee.
One set of movements, as a point in space and time, leads to another set of movements as another point in time. This in turn exists as a point in time.
Each set of movements, as a point in time, exists as a center point for further movements. Structure is ever present, and all reality exists as a center point for another
This lack of continuity, you observe in the fear of dying like a dog, not only references to a lack of meaning in a social construct of a proper death, but is merely a point of change.
However considering all phenomena exists from a center point of change, the nature of death must follow the same route.
You fear an absence of structure in your death, when in reality death must be meaningful as a center point between one type of existence and another.
To say one is afraid is to say one is ignorant, with ignorance being a lack of observation in structure hence an absence of structure in the individual. We are what we observe, for what we observe is directed back to us and forms us.
So in knowing effectively nothing one is constantly afraid. However if one knows effectively nothing they understand fear and if fear is understood it is no longer fear as boundaries are applied to it and it becomes rational an orderly.
Embrace fear, in whatever degree it manifests itself, and it cancels itself out. One can know fear without being afraid, as to know something is not only to see order to it but to give order to it…hence it becomes rational.
I am not arguing I am afraid, but rather I have experience fear before and the list of things which exists as degrees of disorder which constitute a foundation for various fears do not become fearful if understood for what they are.
If you read at the end of the list, “I am fine…but tired.” Fear can be overcome, but like all things it comes at a cost.
“I sacrificed myself to myself and the whole world opened up to me.”
It is not really metaphysical bs if it exists as a perspective through which one exists. Even pursuing a life of hedonism still leads to a question, personal and at the group objective level, as to what the best route to pleasure is.
This still requires an act of reflection which in itself is metaphysics, ie “being que being”, a reflective act where reason is determined by its symmetry, its symmetry determined by the reptition of axioms (a line reflecting a line to form a geometric object or an emotion such as anger repeating itself though a violent action),
If you were trained to be fearless where you really trained well? And this is not a smart ass statement but a legitimate question. People join, I am assuming a militaristic type of organization, often times because they are afraid…for a variety of reasons subject to the individual (being alone, letting others expectations down, appearing weak, etc.).I will answer that in two separate posts, I think it is better, and because your answer demands it. One philosophical, one personal.
To the philosophical one, which is reflected on this first quote of you, John:I don’t care about the metaphysical aspects, mainly because when you do that, you are overthinking, and if you overthink, you are not living. Living takes time, and I don’t want to waste my existence in thoughts, I want to live it all. Men better than me, more intelligent, dedicated their lives to overthink and grow mankind exponentially, and I KNOW FOR A FACT that I can’t even reach their toe nails, so I don’t even try, or pretend to be trying. Symmetry, the alignement of things, geometry, astrophysics, Quantum mechanics, all that are within my understanding, but, what can I achieve or do, with all of that? Nothing. Virtually nothing, except amuse myself on how beautiful the Universe is, even when you have asymmetrical things, like a Human, roaming around this planet and the outer space.
So, it is bulls~~~. Despite amusing yourself with it, pretty much like an art object, you cannot do anything with it. And by you I mean YOU, John. Just like me. We are not Teslas. But, I really care about practical things, about how I can apply things that I know and are useful, things that will effectively improve my life, and perhaps the lives of people around me.
Anyway, that is my view on your propositions. I know you will disagree, but that is the beauty of life. We can all disagree and move on with our days.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
It is not really metaphysical bs if it exists as a perspective through which one exists. Even pursuing a life of hedonism still leads to a question, personal and at the group objective level, as to what the best route to pleasure is.This still requires an act of reflection which in itself is metaphysics, ie “being que being”, a reflective act where reason is determined by its symmetry, its symmetry determined by the reptition of axioms (a line reflecting a line to form a geometric object or an emotion such as anger repeating itself though a violent action),If you were trained to be fearless where you really trained well? And this is not a smart ass statement but a legitimate question. People join, I am assuming a militaristic type of organization, often times because they are afraid…for a variety of reasons subject to the individual (being alone, letting others expectations down, appearing weak, etc.).
I will answer that in two separate posts, I think it is better, and because your answer demands it. One philosophical, one personal.To the philosophical one, which is reflected on this first quote of you, John:
I don’t care about the metaphysical aspects, mainly because when you do that, you are overthinking, and if you overthink, you are not living. Living takes time, and I don’t want to waste my existence in thoughts, I want to live it all. Men better than me, more intelligent, dedicated their lives to overthink and grow mankind exponentially, and I KNOW FOR A FACT that I can’t even reach their toe nails, so I don’t even try, or pretend to be trying. Symmetry, the alignement of things, geometry, astrophysics, Quantum mechanics, all that are within my understanding, but, what can I achieve or do, with all of that? Nothing. Virtually nothing, except amuse myself on how beautiful the Universe is, even when you have asymmetrical things, like a Human, roaming around this planet and the outer space.
So, it is bulls~~~. Despite amusing yourself with it, pretty much like an art object, you cannot do anything with it. And by you I mean YOU, John. Just like me. We are not Teslas. But, I really care about practical things, about how I can apply things that I know and are useful, things that will effectively improve my life, and perhaps the lives of people around me.
Anyway, that is my view on your propositions. I know you will disagree, but that is the beauty of life. We can all disagree and move on with our days.Then why bother expressing the idea if ideas do not matter?
Who said I disagree…you are the one to say men are better than you and give up…what truth is there in that?
You picked your road, you admit fear is your limit. The only response you provided is one of thinking through it is bulls~~~…but roaming around and enjoying it is purpose.
And dogs dont do that? Wasnt that your fear? To die a meaningless life like as dog? Dogs follow there appetites only and roam around, that is what makes them a dog.
The world is built by ideas, the same ideas which brought not just the social creeds we struggle with, but the ideas of materialism and self fulfillment that not just formed our economies and way of life but the wars you suffered through (by your own choice).
As to idea.
Actually you can do everything with it. The world is formed by perspective, the individual is formed by perspective…reality is bent by perspective.
Something as simple as focusing on a number helps push the body to new limits, accepting ones life has a specific role and time in creation gives balance to a percievably empty situation (to the irrational man) such as being stuck on an elevator.
You see the difference between me and you, is that you follow the stereotype of “I have seen things you will never see, I know fear.”
A soldier dying for his country is viewed in way higher esteem than a worker who falls and snaps his neck or having an “elevator crash”.
You want to talk about dying like a dog.
Protecting your “brother: so he can return to his family, is different than working in a job where not only is your brother wanting your head, but you have no family to return to.
You come from a world where “a brother got his brothers back” to “help get home”.
In the world I know it is a struggle of all against all. There is no brother, there is no home, there is empty void and if you have anything…even a moment of simple peace…people will want to take it from you in envy.
So dont talk about an “empty dying like a dog death.”
I form reality or reality forms me, wandering around in senseless oblivion is for the nihilists. A man either bends reality through force of will to gain his freedom through order or he is left in a state of decay…the slowest, darkest and most meaningless death of them all.
The very fact you spent all time time to respond…only proves my points valid.
If you had no fear, then You would not worry about what you eat, what you f~~~, you would just be a METH ADDICT. They really have no fear but not getting the drugs they want.
I forgot the guy that goes “he has no emotions”. But that can’t be true, he tells jokes. GREAT ONES! You can’t have humor without fear. The very nature of a comedian is that without fear, he would not have a need to make people laugh. Hence why some of the most funny people (blade) have experience some of the worst pain possible
And overall, most of you that claim that you have no fear? That does not compute. Why are you not using your real name?And if you are John Doe? You might as well start Sucking dick at truck stops. You know VIRTUE RIGHT? What’s more virtous then giving a man a BLOW JOB! Do Homeless Meth addict men first cuz nothing is more virtuous than that. Don’t have fear of STD’s?
I don’t possess the emotion of fear; it is just abstract to me, like variables in a computer program. I try to adjust the variables to create the outcome that I have in mind. I maintain a decent diet by trying to balance cost with nutrition, because I don’t see the logic in being unhealthy or wasting money that I don’t need to buying garbage food. I grow a lot of my own.
I have better things to do than be a meth addict. Fear has nothing to do with it. I also have better things to do than giving someone a blow job. I’ve evolved a bit beyond Marcus Aurelius and stoicism. I care almost nothing for humanity anymore. If every other human being on the Earth died, it would not affect me emotionally. The closest I would get to an emotion would perhaps be a general sense of relief and an awareness that troublesome, meddlesome, irrational primates are finally gone. I live by a rule of leaving other people alone and not being meddlesome, but other people do not adhere to this general rule, which really makes me not value their lives at all. I would find it mildly entertaining in at least an abstract sense to watch such a person be tied to the ground and eaten alive by rats.
I have little to no emotion left also, but I can also tell jokes, but I can see my own “internal programming” running if I make a joke. Everything is abstract. I can laugh at a joke someone tells if I mentally analyze it and determine that I should laugh at the joke, but I actually FEEL nothing.
I have discovered a handful of specific holdovers, based on conditioned triggers (that exist from occurring over and over again back when I had emotions), that still remain and I am gradually eliminating them, as well. For example, certain scenes in a movie, for example in “Cloud Atlas” when Frobisher suicides himself with a gun in the bathtub and Sixsmith finds him. I employ counter-conditioning; for example, I traditionally would get negatively emotional (frustration) at losing at something like a video game or losing at chess against the computer. To counter-condition learned emotional responses like that, I now do something like play at the Grandmaster level at chess knowing that I would lose, or set up a video game scenario that I cannot win.
All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.
If you were trained to be fearless where you really trained well? And this is not a smart ass statement but a legitimate question. People join, I am assuming a militaristic type of organization, often times because they are afraid…for a variety of reasons subject to the individual (being alone, letting others expectations down, appearing weak, etc.).
People join the military because they are afraid and the fear multiplies. I am sorry you seen what you seen, but at the end of the day you made the choice. Don’t blame others for embracing a lifestyle you chose. I walked into the recruiter in college. He not only forgot my appointment but gave me wronf directions. I went for another meeting…and he forgot it as well. If the recruiter did not show up twice, when I was pretty much signing myself over to the government…what should I expect from how they will handle other decisions. Barring my unique experience one only has to look at the nature of the wars to find that I would not really be fighting for anything other than ego or some scholarship for a degree that means s~~~.
Now dont get me wrong, some guys have to join for some odd life reason, but they dont join to protect their brothers without a fear of being alone. They may join for x reasons and make brothers they fear for because they grow attached over time. The brothers become part of there identity and a loss of a brother is a loss of identity…a loss of the self.
In regards to what I seen? Decay and despair…not even a home worth fighting for…which is less rational which is worse? To fight for something, or to have nothing to fight for?
Your fear is premised on an absence of meaning. Meaning is an observation of order. Something is deemed meaningful if it directs to something else. One point directs itself to another and structure occurs.
This point is strictly an origin directing to another origin. This structure in itself is a point. Take for example me picking up a cup. It is a point of origin of one movement in time leading to another point of origin in time as me putting the cup down. One movement is directed to another. Me “moving” the cup exists as point of origin to me looking for a larger cup to use for coffee.
One set of movements, as a point in space and time, leads to another set of movements as another point in time. This in turn exists as a point in time.
Each set of movements, as a point in time, exists as a center point for further movements. Structure is ever present, and all reality exists as a center point for another
This lack of continuity, you observe in the fear of dying like a dog, not only references to a lack of meaning in a social construct of a proper death, but is merely a point of change.
However considering all phenomena exists from a center point of change, the nature of death must follow the same route.
You fear an absence of structure in your death, when in reality death must be meaningful as a center point between one type of existence and another.
To say one is afraid is to say one is ignorant, with ignorance being a lack of observation in structure hence an absence of structure in the individual. We are what we observe, for what we observe is directed back to us and forms us.
So in knowing effectively nothing one is constantly afraid. However if one knows effectively nothing they understand fear and if fear is understood it is no longer fear as boundaries are applied to it and it becomes rational an orderly.
Embrace fear, in whatever degree it manifests itself, and it cancels itself out. One can know fear without being afraid, as to know something is not only to see order to it but to give order to it…hence it becomes rational.
I am not arguing I am afraid, but rather I have experience fear before and the list of things which exists as degrees of disorder which constitute a foundation for various fears do not become fearful if understood for what they are.
If you read at the end of the list, “I am fine…but tired.” Fear can be overcome, but like all things it comes at a cost.
“I sacrificed myself to myself and the whole world opened up to me.”Yes, I was trained quite well, and I’ve trained others quite well, and I am telling you, for sure: You can’t get rid of fear. Ever. All you can do is to train yourself to answer that fear in a certain way, which you think is most beneficial to you. Despite that, you have nothing to do against fear.
Fear is not a “lack of order”, in any way, shape or sense, it is the recognition of a situation that is pontentially harmful to your being, which can go from losing something to losing someone. I think that waht you are thinking is fear is not what fear really is. You talk about comprehension and the fear of not understanding something (which is YOUR fear, the fear of not understanding things around you, or losing your understand of things around you).
I did not joined a “militaristic” type of organization, I joined the Army. Willingly, because I felt the need to give something back to the society that I was born into, because how can I complain about something, if I never have tried to change anything, or to comprehend how things are the way they are? So I joined. I never had any kind of fear towards my own annihilation, as I should be dead already, and I accepted that I am dead already. Every single day I die a little more, although I still breathe, eat, sleep and drink, I am already a dead man.I don’t blame anyone for the kind of things I’ve seen and participated in, except those people who committed such atrocities in the name of things that were so elusive, that in the end, nobody even remembered or understood why we were fighting and dying for. Stupid, if you ask me, and pathetic, if you get me on a really bad day. I fought because I want people to be free. To be rid of dictators, to be rid of tyrants who would massacre their own, in order to be more powerful or richer (often both).
Fear of being alone, you say? I thrive on being alone. Being alone is my reason of living, to be quite honest. To be capable of doing anything and everything I can and need on my own. And I’ve spent decades learning to do so. My fear of losing my Brothers is because when you go through pain, sweat, tears and blood together you develop unbreakable bonds with the people who went through thick and thin with you. I think that this is what you are lacking, this sense of complete brotherhood that only the military can offer, and you try to fill this void with meaningless metaphysical bulls~~~. I may be wrong (and I really hope so), but you come across as trying to hard to become more than human, and this is one of the cases that “more is less”, and you come across as… unfit as a human.
You try to distance yourself from mankind, for waht reason? Are you afraid of being human? Or are you disgusted by it, so much that you want to become, act and think as a machine?
You asked me what is more rational, if fighting for something or not having something worthy of fighting for, and I say to you: If you have nothing to fight for, besides being a complete nihilist, you have a Strong disregard for yourself, because in your mind, not even YOURSELF is worthy of fighting for. So, the less rational is not fighting for something, or someone, even if that something or someone is what you like or yourself. Don’t you think that you are worthy?Meaning is not “order”, simply because meaning can sometimes be chaos, or chaotic. Order is order. Meaning is meaning. You are taking things out of order, just because you are obsessed with order. YOUR order. Nature itself is chaotic and devoid of any meaning, except to produce more life. A tree grows anywhere, being completely randomly dropped through many different means with no correlation to each other, from the winds to animal feces, chaotic and devoid of any order.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Your fear is premised on an absence of meaning. Meaning is an observation of order. Something is deemed meaningful if it directs to something else. One point directs itself to another and structure occurs.
This point is strictly an origin directing to another origin. This structure in itself is a point. Take for example me picking up a cup. It is a point of origin of one movement in time leading to another point of origin in time as me putting the cup down. One movement is directed to another. Me “moving” the cup exists as point of origin to me looking for a larger cup to use for coffee.
One set of movements, as a point in space and time, leads to another set of movements as another point in time. This in turn exists as a point in time.
Each set of movements, as a point in time, exists as a center point for further movements. Structure is ever present, and all reality exists as a center point for another
This lack of continuity, you observe in the fear of dying like a dog, not only references to a lack of meaning in a social construct of a proper death, but is merely a point of change.
However considering all phenomena exists from a center point of change, the nature of death must follow the same route.
You fear an absence of structure in your death, when in reality death must be meaningful as a center point between one type of existence and another.
To say one is afraid is to say one is ignorant, with ignorance being a lack of observation in structure hence an absence of structure in the individual. We are what we observe, for what we observe is directed back to us and forms us.
So in knowing effectively nothing one is constantly afraid. However if one knows effectively nothing they understand fear and if fear is understood it is no longer fear as boundaries are applied to it and it becomes rational an orderly.
Embrace fear, in whatever degree it manifests itself, and it cancels itself out. One can know fear without being afraid, as to know something is not only to see order to it but to give order to it…hence it becomes rational.
I am not arguing I am afraid, but rather I have experience fear before and the list of things which exists as degrees of disorder which constitute a foundation for various fears do not become fearful if understood for what they are.
If you read at the end of the list, “I am fine…but tired.” Fear can be overcome, but like all things it comes at a cost.
“I sacrificed myself to myself and the whole world opened up to me.”The only thing pointing at that give meaning to my life is me. If things point to me, the things I want to do, build, make, take, eat, drink, raise, fill my life with meaning. A meaning that I defined, for myself. What you deem as a “point of origin” could very well be the point of destination, and yet, to you, this never ending circular motion, is the “do all, be all” of life. To your life, maybe it is, but mine? Not at all. Do not rule me using your ruler. I don’t fit into what you have defined to yourself. And your standards are just another point of measure in a myriad of other points of measures, most of the time with no correlation to one another. You try to impose your standards on other people, which in turn make them despise your opinion, because you speak as if you were some kind of machine god that everyone should bow down to, in order to appease you and your quest for “symmetry”. To that, I have nothing else, but a single “f~~~ you”, because I couldn’t care less.
If I was really afraid of “lack of continuity”, I would have not chose to be a MGTOW, which in itself, is the LACK OF CONTINUITY, because I will leave in this world nothing else than my dust. No kids, no wife, no legacy. NOTHING. I am not afraid of “no continuity”, in fact I WELCOME IT. My fear of “dying like a dog” is incomprehensive to your mind, mainly because it has nothing to do with “symmetry” or “order”, your mind cannot comprehend anything besides that, unfortunately.
“Dying like a dog” was a term used by the Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu Sama, when describing someone that wanted to die so badly, because this life was dragging them so low, that they had no hope, no joy, only despair. So, they left their destinies unfulfilled, they had not became everything they could have become, as a person, as a professional, as a warrior. It was a term also used Tsunetomo Yamamoto Sensei, to describe something very much alike what Tokugawa Sama described, but with a slightly more focused meaning: the warrior who had not dedicated his life for his own improvement, specially when he himself should be the best man available for his Lord, even when his Lord was not worthy of him. As a warrior, he should lead by example, not by words. And dying without becoming this kind of man, was to “die a dog’s death”.
A man’s life is his painting. If it is ugly, squared, or na object of true beauty, is only up to him. My aim is to make my life the most beautiful painting that I can draw, using every tool available to me.I know death, I have seen it first hand. I know what lies behind it, I am not ignorant what death is. And yet, I am afraid of “dying a dog’s death”, because I am aiming to live a life of “no regrets”, so when I finally die, I would go down without a single doubt or anything that would make me regret dying when my time comes.
Fear is NEVER rational. Fear is the very lack of reasoning itself. And thus, you cannot rationalize it, you can just train yourself to act on that fear in a certain way, and that is the best you can do. Nothing you are afraid and all that crap you said, is because you never faced fear so big, that it shakes your very own being, from inside-out. A fear so great, that your brain itself secrets so many hormones, that the only response you have is the classical “fight or flight”. And believe me, if you were shoulder to shoulder with me in some of the things I experienced, you would agree with me.
Fear cannot be conquered. How you will act based on that fear, is the thing that can be conquered. But to that, just your complete apathy and your “logic and reasoning” will not gonna cut the mustard. You are impairing yourself, willingly.
Despite your best efforts, you are not a machine. You are here because you are not one, you are not here because you “stumbled” on this site and found reason within it. You are here because you have been, or still are, afraid and disappointed with this western society. And that in itself is proof enough that you are not what you want to be.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Then why bother expressing the idea if ideas do not matter?
Who said I disagree…you are the one to say men are better than you and give up…what truth is there in that?
You picked your road, you admit fear is your limit. The only response you provided is one of thinking through it is bulls~~~…but roaming around and enjoying it is purpose.
And dogs dont do that? Wasnt that your fear? To die a meaningless life like as dog? Dogs follow there appetites only and roam around, that is what makes them a dog.
The world is built by ideas, the same ideas which brought not just the social creeds we struggle with, but the ideas of materialism and self fulfillment that not just formed our economies and way of life but the wars you suffered through (by your own choice).
As to idea.
Actually you can do everything with it. The world is formed by perspective, the individual is formed by perspective…reality is bent by perspective.
Something as simple as focusing on a number helps push the body to new limits, accepting ones life has a specific role and time in creation gives balance to a percievably empty situation (to the irrational man) such as being stuck on an elevator.
You see the difference between me and you, is that you follow the stereotype of “I have seen things you will never see, I know fear.”
A soldier dying for his country is viewed in way higher esteem than a worker who falls and snaps his neck or having an “elevator crash”.
You want to talk about dying like a dog.
Protecting your “brother: so he can return to his family, is different than working in a job where not only is your brother wanting your head, but you have no family to return to.
You come from a world where “a brother got his brothers back” to “help get home”.
In the world I know it is a struggle of all against all. There is no brother, there is no home, there is empty void and if you have anything…even a moment of simple peace…people will want to take it from you in envy.
So dont talk about an “empty dying like a dog death.”
I form reality or reality forms me, wandering around in senseless oblivion is for the nihilists. A man either bends reality through force of will to gain his freedom through order or he is left in a state of decay…the slowest, darkest and most meaningless death of them all.
The very fact you spent all time time to respond…only proves my points valid.I am not expressing ideas, I am stating facts. The one expressing ideas and trying to somehow deviate from reality is you, not me. And yes, some men are better than me, that is a fact. Does your ego do not let you see that people can be better than you, or worse than you? Do you really think you are “all that”?
Roaming around and enjoying is not my purpose, but becoming the best I can be is. Doing even more things, acquiring even more skills than I already have, is purpose. Leaving behind nothing but my dust, is purpose.
Dogs don’t do that. They can self-teach the abilities needed for his survival, I am far beyond that. I acquired abilities that I want to practice, skills that I value, or treasure, which are not directly tied to my survival.The world is not “built” by ideas, it is built by steel, it is built by sand, energy, by material things. Ideas are just the first step towards something actually being built. If all we had were ideas, then we would still be leaving in caves and eating bananas. Someone had an idea, and this person put that idea into practice, using the materials needed for him to make his idea a reality, or someone else took that idea and materialized it. And ideas can be s~~~ty too, even the most retarded person have a s~~~load of them, as it is nothing out of ordinary. Putting those ideas into the real world, practicing them and/or building them, is another completely different matter. And THAT, John, is the real challenge.
“is different than working in a job where not only is your brother wanting your head, but you have no family to return to.” I currently work on a job like that. And yet, still I rise. Still I protect my coworkers, still I lead by example, and soon they ALWAYS learn that if we work together as a team, we will fare better, we will give results faster, and we will be winning more. Not only the world you know, but the world we ALL know it is one against another. And yet, I have no Family to return to. And I don’t want one.
“A soldier dying for his country is viewed in way higher esteem than a worker who falls and snaps his neck or having an “elevator crash”.” and that is not only wrong, as it is despicable. Both have the same value, as one is building and the other is protecting the world the worker has built, along with his Family and others. The only difference is that one WILLINGLY puts himself into the harm’s way, the other has harm done to him as a consequence of his mistakes or the mistakes of others. That is why soldiers are viewed in a “way higher esteem”.You have no power to form reality, as you are not its Lord. Reality does not depend on you, you can only adapt to it, and change a few things that you can change. All else you accept and move forward. Don’t ever think for a second that you are more powerful or resilient than Life and Reality themselves. You will only fool yourself and fall HARD from your high horse. As I did.
The very fact that I took all this time to respond to you, is that I live a life away from my computer, as I don’t fight with reality or try to get away from it, no. I embrace it as it is. Hence why I am a MGHOW, it is because I KNOW I can’t change society or how it is built, so I withdraw from it because I refuse to play the game. If that proves your points and make you validate your thinking, fine by me, whatever rocks your boat. As my arguments are not for you, but for people beyond you. I am just using your arguments as debating points.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
If you were trained to be fearless where you really trained well? And this is not a smart ass statement but a legitimate question. People join, I am assuming a militaristic type of organization, often times because they are afraid…for a variety of reasons subject to the individual (being alone, letting others expectations down, appearing weak, etc.).People join the military because they are afraid and the fear multiplies. I am sorry you seen what you seen, but at the end of the day you made the choice. Don’t blame others for embracing a lifestyle you chose. I walked into the recruiter in college. He not only forgot my appointment but gave me wronf directions. I went for another meeting…and he forgot it as well. If the recruiter did not show up twice, when I was pretty much signing myself over to the government…what should I expect from how they will handle other decisions. Barring my unique experience one only has to look at the nature of the wars to find that I would not really be fighting for anything other than ego or some scholarship for a degree that means s~~~.Now dont get me wrong, some guys have to join for some odd life reason, but they dont join to protect their brothers without a fear of being alone. They may join for x reasons and make brothers they fear for because they grow attached over time. The brothers become part of there identity and a loss of a brother is a loss of identity…a loss of the self.In regards to what I seen? Decay and despair…not even a home worth fighting for…which is less rational which is worse? To fight for something, or to have nothing to fight for?Your fear is premised on an absence of meaning. Meaning is an observation of order. Something is deemed meaningful if it directs to something else. One point directs itself to another and structure occurs.This point is strictly an origin directing to another origin. This structure in itself is a point. Take for example me picking up a cup. It is a point of origin of one movement in time leading to another point of origin in time as me putting the cup down. One movement is directed to another. Me “moving” the cup exists as point of origin to me looking for a larger cup to use for coffee.One set of movements, as a point in space and time, leads to another set of movements as another point in time. This in turn exists as a point in time.Each set of movements, as a point in time, exists as a center point for further movements. Structure is ever present, and all reality exists as a center point for anotherThis lack of continuity, you observe in the fear of dying like a dog, not only references to a lack of meaning in a social construct of a proper death, but is merely a point of change.However considering all phenomena exists from a center point of change, the nature of death must follow the same route.You fear an absence of structure in your death, when in reality death must be meaningful as a center point between one type of existence and another.To say one is afraid is to say one is ignorant, with ignorance being a lack of observation in structure hence an absence of structure in the individual. We are what we observe, for what we observe is directed back to us and forms us.So in knowing effectively nothing one is constantly afraid. However if one knows effectively nothing they understand fear and if fear is understood it is no longer fear as boundaries are applied to it and it becomes rational an orderly.Embrace fear, in whatever degree it manifests itself, and it cancels itself out. One can know fear without being afraid, as to know something is not only to see order to it but to give order to it…hence it becomes rational.I am not arguing I am afraid, but rather I have experience fear before and the list of things which exists as degrees of disorder which constitute a foundation for various fears do not become fearful if understood for what they are.If you read at the end of the list, “I am fine…but tired.” Fear can be overcome, but like all things it comes at a cost.“I sacrificed myself to myself and the whole world opened up to me.”
Yes, I was trained quite well, and I’ve trained others quite well, and I am telling you, for sure: You can’t get rid of fear. Ever. All you can do is to train yourself to answer that fear in a certain way, which you think is most beneficial to you. Despite that, you have nothing to do against fear.Fear is not a “lack of order”, in any way, shape or sense, it is the recognition of a situation that is pontentially harmful to your being, which can go from losing something to losing someone. I think that waht you are thinking is fear is not what fear really is. You talk about comprehension and the fear of not understanding something (which is YOUR fear, the fear of not understanding things around you, or losing your understand of things around you).I did not joined a “militaristic” type of organization, I joined the Army. Willingly, because I felt the need to give something back to the society that I was born into, because how can I complain about something, if I never have tried to change anything, or to comprehend how things are the way they are? So I joined. I never had any kind of fear towards my own annihilation, as I should be dead already, and I accepted that I am dead already. Every single day I die a little more, although I still breathe, eat, sleep and drink, I am already a dead man.
I don’t blame anyone for the kind of things I’ve seen and participated in, except those people who committed such atrocities in the name of things that were so elusive, that in the end, nobody even remembered or understood why we were fighting and dying for. Stupid, if you ask me, and pathetic, if you get me on a really bad day. I fought because I want people to be free. To be rid of dictators, to be rid of tyrants who would massacre their own, in order to be more powerful or richer (often both).
Fear of being alone, you say? I thrive on being alone. Being alone is my reason of living, to be quite honest. To be capable of doing anything and everything I can and need on my own. And I’ve spent decades learning to do so. My fear of losing my Brothers is because when you go through pain, sweat, tears and blood together you develop unbreakable bonds with the people who went through thick and thin with you. I think that this is what you are lacking, this sense of complete brotherhood that only the military can offer, and you try to fill this void with meaningless metaphysical bulls~~~. I may be wrong (and I really hope so), but you come across as trying to hard to become more than human, and this is one of the cases that “more is less”, and you come across as… unfit as a human.
You try to distance yourself from mankind, for waht reason? Are you afraid of being human? Or are you disgusted by it, so much that you want to become, act and think as a machine?You asked me what is more rational, if fighting for something or not having something worthy of fighting for, and I say to you: If you have nothing to fight for, besides being a complete nihilist, you have a Strong disregard for yourself, because in your mind, not even YOURSELF is worthy of fighting for. So, the less rational is not fighting for something, or someone, even if that something or someone is what you like or yourself. Don’t you think that you are worthy?
Meaning is not “order”, simply because meaning can sometimes be chaos, or chaotic. Order is order. Meaning is meaning. You are taking things out of order, just because you are obsessed with order. YOUR order. Nature itself is chaotic and devoid of any meaning, except to produce more life. A tree grows anywhere, being completely randomly dropped through many different means with no correlation to each other, from the winds to animal feces, chaotic and devoid of any order.Whatever brotherhood the military offers lasts for x amount of time and then is gone. It does not change the fact everyday life continues and the majority end up becoming worse when they come home. It is only a temporary sense of balance for some.
Becoming more than human? Becoming human in a time where humanity is dying gives an illusion of trying to become more than human. There is nothing I even argue about distancing oneself from humanity…you are the one projecting this illusion of “I don’t need anyone” or a sense of nihilism.
4-6 page of response just proves my point…you have everything to prove not just to me but everyone. Thanks for the words about actions, and the irrelevance of language…in language.
In order to derive meaning you/everyone have to rationalize your own experiences and those around you.
This act of rationalizing is strictly to connect and seperate certain axioms (self evident truths derived from experience and observation).
You repeat this axioms (again self evident truths as experience and observatiom) until they form a perspective through which your direction in life is given order.
Your perspective is contained by a framework of definitions. The act of even forming energy requires an idea of how it is to be formed. Even the nature of “what is freedom” is an idea. Who said it is your right to free other people from dictators? It is a legitimate question, but to answer either for or against it requires some from of rationale.
This rational is basically the formation of some framework. This framework is the reptition of some idea. A dictator is x relative to y. A dictator is x1 relative to y1. A dictator is x2 relative to y2.
The nature of a defining anything, a dictator in this case, is the reptition of something relative to various variables.
A simple example is running x miles everyday. You repeat this habit, over time, because it gives strength and further structure to your body. The reptition of one action causes it to exist as a cycle which forms the self.
Another example is strictly a cadence, words, to keep a constant repetitive pace during a run.
Practicing organizing a thought through writing is another example.
The same applies for emotions or ideas. Even the idea of “liberty” is strictly a subjective axiom continually repeated to form a societies notion of what it means to exist. Because “liberty” means so many things to so many people it takes on a subjective nature.
The great irony is that people only talk about virtue when there is evil, love when there is hate, liberty when there is a lack of freedom.
A man has the power to form himself and the reality around him, he does this whether he knows it or not. This conversation in forming our psyches, and those who read it, whether we desire it or not.
Save the “I seen death” thing. Most people have. You claim it over a brother you only knew for a few years in all reality, it is much different when you are spoon feeding a mother type figure and changing her diaper while she rots away from cancer (while people are trying to kill her with overdoses or sabotage the oxygen machine). Add in a aging family with multiple cases of congestive heart failure, strokes, etc…and there is no “glory” or interesting story people make movies around.
You claim soldiers have higher esteem because they choose to make the sacrifice…which is partly true. None of the wars we fight are necessary for survival, so many elements of this is completely free.
So spare me your stories about self sacrifice for a civilization you have nothing but contempt for. The majority of them join to get away from home, prove themselves only later to despise the people they tried proving themselves too,
So to go in for an idea of service, only to come out saying “f~~~ the country”…is quite change of stance isn’t it. On one hand you said you did it out of service, and now you claim you derive meaning for yourself.
As to the miltary:
Do they become heros?…some do…other don’t. I had enough relatives and friend who came out not any better than before. It really breaks down to an issue of common sense, a man is judged according to his decisions…period. Some jump in over there heads, others don’t. Some men sacrifice themselves to one extreme, and bear both the gold and bad consequences, others go to another extreme.
And dont take this as a f~~~ you the military either. The men deserve alot better treatment than they recieved than coming home. They have earned it. This isnt pro or anti military, at all, but just the nature of life.
However the military uses fear as a weapon to keep people in check, so by default it is not a system that eliminates fear…it is not meant to by nature.
It is up to the individual man to deal with those situations. The military adapts people to exist as part of a group or unit. A man is left to his own terms as to why he makes the decisions he makes.
You make decisions, over an idea, because the idea is repeated in your head. You claim the training does not eliminate fear, but at the end of the day it still helped you overcome enough fear to jump into a battle(s) or struggle most people wouldnt.
Some people block out some ideas, because they do not want the conflicts with other ideas of identity…others accept different ideas as a personal risk to there own identity. People’s lives are formed according to there ideas…period. “service” is an idea.
On one hand the soldier is fighting to protect a banking system, the worker struggles to build the banking system. Both know, at the end of the day bother sacrifices are for a banking system and nothing more. That is the nature of the modern world.
So you cannot really justify your position completely as you claim there is not meaning but the self, but the self is the origin point of all equilibrium, but is changed by the environment.
Whether one gets some glorious death on a battlefield for some institution that does not give a damn about him, or the worker dies an idiotic death falling from x feet, both are stuck in the same position over it being about a system of ideas that form a culture which does not work.
But these are all lesser grades of death. A true death, as you and everyone here know is having nothing to live for and in these respects all men, regardless of there background, are reduced to a basic natural law of maintaining balance to keep moving.
This absence of order in society, stems from a system of ideas about materialism, individual values of materialistic choice, etc.
The modern world is a technological cage meant to trap people in one extreme of hedonism and bestial impulse.
But this even contradicts itself in the face of it still requiring a continual cycling of ideas. These ideas will eventually cancel themselves out as they are anti-rational but require a form of reasoning to exist.
Some guy, coming out of the army or finishing up work, going home to put a gun to his head is still despair.
To live for the self is contradictory when preaching the self to other people. Even justifying ones stance to others still requires a form of social fabric to form identity.
You claim society cannot be changed, but mgtow is a society. People are social creatures by nature…it is unavoidable. I was introduced to mgtow at a young age in college.
Barring your personal stance and experience, which only you can put deem as meaningful to you, your argument makes little sense.
You, according to your wording, fell from your high horse because well you chose one extreme. I am not placing myself on a horse, or anything high at all for that matter, I am arguing that life must be worked with and not forced as all order stems from life.
How can one have fear if they work with the order of natural law? For even their eventual death is part of that law, and as part of that law death is rational and has a place. It only becomes fearful if wants either seeks it or tries avoiding it as this is absent of reason.
Order is inevitable.
Then why bother expressing the idea if ideas do not matter?Who said I disagree…you are the one to say men are better than you and give up…what truth is there in that?You picked your road, you admit fear is your limit. The only response you provided is one of thinking through it is bulls~~~…but roaming around and enjoying it is purpose.And dogs dont do that? Wasnt that your fear? To die a meaningless life like as dog? Dogs follow there appetites only and roam around, that is what makes them a dog.The world is built by ideas, the same ideas which brought not just the social creeds we struggle with, but the ideas of materialism and self fulfillment that not just formed our economies and way of life but the wars you suffered through (by your own choice).As to idea.Actually you can do everything with it. The world is formed by perspective, the individual is formed by perspective…reality is bent by perspective.Something as simple as focusing on a number helps push the body to new limits, accepting ones life has a specific role and time in creation gives balance to a percievably empty situation (to the irrational man) such as being stuck on an elevator.You see the difference between me and you, is that you follow the stereotype of “I have seen things you will never see, I know fear.”A soldier dying for his country is viewed in way higher esteem than a worker who falls and snaps his neck or having an “elevator crash”.You want to talk about dying like a dog.Protecting your “brother: so he can return to his family, is different than working in a job where not only is your brother wanting your head, but you have no family to return to.You come from a world where “a brother got his brothers back” to “help get home”.In the world I know it is a struggle of all against all. There is no brother, there is no home, there is empty void and if you have anything…even a moment of simple peace…people will want to take it from you in envy.So dont talk about an “empty dying like a dog death.”I form reality or reality forms me, wandering around in senseless oblivion is for the nihilists. A man either bends reality through force of will to gain his freedom through order or he is left in a state of decay…the slowest, darkest and most meaningless death of them all.The very fact you spent all time time to respond…only proves my points valid.
I am not expressing ideas, I am stating facts. The one expressing ideas and trying to somehow deviate from reality is you, not me. And yes, some men are better than me, that is a fact. Does your ego do not let you see that people can be better than you, or worse than you? Do you really think you are “all that”?
Roaming around and enjoying is not my purpose, but becoming the best I can be is. Doing even more things, acquiring even more skills than I already have, is purpose. Leaving behind nothing but my dust, is purpose.Dogs don’t do that. They can self-teach the abilities needed for his survival, I am far beyond that. I acquired abilities that I want to practice, skills that I value, or treasure, which are not directly tied to my survival.
The world is not “built” by ideas, it is built by steel, it is built by sand, energy, by material things. Ideas are just the first step towards something actually being built. If all we had were ideas, then we would still be leaving in caves and eating bananas. Someone had an idea, and this person put that idea into practice, using the materials needed for him to make his idea a reality, or someone else took that idea and materialized it. And ideas can be s~~~ty too, even the most retarded person have a s~~~load of them, as it is nothing out of ordinary. Putting those ideas into the real world, practicing them and/or building them, is another completely different matter. And THAT, John, is the real challenge.
“is different than working in a job where not only is your brother wanting your head, but you have no family to return to.” I currently work on a job like that. And yet, still I rise. Still I protect my coworkers, still I lead by example, and soon they ALWAYS learn that if we work together as a team, we will fare better, we will give results faster, and we will be winning more. Not only the world you know, but the world we ALL know it is one against another. And yet, I have no Family to return to. And I don’t want one.“A soldier dying for his country is viewed in way higher esteem than a worker who falls and snaps his neck or having an “elevator crash”.” and that is not only wrong, as it is despicable. Both have the same value, as one is building and the other is protecting the world the worker has built, along with his Family and others. The only difference is that one WILLINGLY puts himself into the harm’s way, the other has harm done to him as a consequence of his mistakes or the mistakes of others. That is why soldiers are viewed in a “way higher esteem”.
You have no power to form reality, as you are not its Lord. Reality does not depend on you, you can only adapt to it, and change a few things that you can change. All else you accept and move forward. Don’t ever think for a second that you are more powerful or resilient than Life and Reality themselves. You will only fool yourself and fall HARD from your high horse. As I did.
The very fact that I took all this time to respond to you, is that I live a life away from my computer, as I don’t fight with reality or try to get away from it, no. I embrace it as it is. Hence why I am a MGHOW, it is because I KNOW I can’t change society or how it is built, so I withdraw from it because I refuse to play the game. If that proves your points and make you validate your thinking, fine by me, whatever rocks your boat. As my arguments are not for you, but for people beyond you. I am just using your arguments as debating points.This is why I have believe this forum is full of idiots.
I am arguing that balance eliminates fear. If one is arguing balance, by default the argument is above and below other arguments at the same time.
If a man pursues balance, he knows he is both better and worse than not just certain people but even this is relative to certain facets of the individual and not the individual as a whole.
Here is my argument:
1. I have been afraid before.
2. Fear can be overcome.
3. This requires putting the scenario in perspective and seeing both extremes in it.
Then I am accused of acting like a machine, being inhuman, nihilistic, placing myself above others, etc.
Is their something I am missing?
Anonymous38Here is my argument:
1. I have been afraid before.
2. Fear can be overcome.
3. This requires putting the scenario in perspective and seeing both extremes in it.
Then I am accused of acting like a machine, being inhuman, nihilistic, placing myself above others, etc.
Is their something I am missing?
No, you are right. Fear can be overcome. You have explained very well what I could not.
I used to fear a lot. In fact most of my deleterious behaviour can be traced to a fear of something. But now, I fear naught. I simply accept everything that happens.
Do I fear walking through a dangerous neighbourhood? Not really – I accept the potential consequences of choosing to walk through said neighbourhood. Living fully, being responsible, means accepting responsibility for your actions. I simply walk along, doing my best not to elicit an attack not out of fear, but out of me not desiring to be mugged or murdered.
I do not fear death, I simply want to live. That is proof that fear is akin to a phobia, and like all phobias, can be overcome.
It is the curse and the blessing of an overly analytical / conscientious mind. Choosing my words carefully, being sometimes hesitant – these things appear to the masses as a lack of confidence. But that is ok, I no longer fear what inferior people think of me, to boot.
Thanks to all for the in depth responses.
This is why I have believe this forum is full of idiots.
I am arguing that balance eliminates fear. If one is arguing balance, by default the argument is above and below other arguments at the same time.
If a man pursues balance, he knows he is both better and worse than not just certain people but even this is relative to certain facets of the individual and not the individual as a whole.
Here is my argument:
1. I have been afraid before.
2. Fear can be overcome.
3. This requires putting the scenario in perspective and seeing both extremes in it.
Then I am accused of acting like a machine, being inhuman, nihilistic, placing myself above others, etc.
Is their something I am missing?So why are you here then, if we are all idiots? Makes absolutely no sense why you would want to be on a place full of idiots!
Balance? Tell that to your brain! Your brain chemistry does not give A SINGLE F~~~ to your balance. When s~~~ hits the fan, the body responds without your consent. The hormones dropped in your blood stream do not ask you if you feel fear or not, they do not give a f~~~ if you think you can control it or not, it will pump adrenaline like mad from your kidneys into your blood stream, because that is how your brain reacts to that, in an unconscious level.What you can overcome with a s~~~ load of training, is YOUR RESPONSE to fear. Is that so hard to understand?
What you are missing is that you want to look like fearless and that you do not give a s~~~, and for WHAT, I ask? What is your purpose on trying so hard to deny that you feel fear, a perfectly NATURAL reaction of every single living being on the planet, pushing that bulls~~~ that “balance” makes you free of fear? And even telling the case of the guy with the mallet and you telling him to “f~~~ing do it” and all that bulls~~~?
Again, this is not a p~~~ing contest. Nor should be. You took it as such, I am pushing you to the BIOLOGICAL reality of this s~~~.But you know what? Sure cupcake. Whatever floats your boat! If you feel like fearless, it must be true!
Just dont go running when s~~~ really hits the fan, alright?
Great!"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
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