Christian/Religious MGTOW is it possible?!

[TYEParticipant 291]

I have been very 50/50 with my faith, but recently I have made the decision to permanently embrace it, and to stop thinking about the role women play in Christianity. No verse say’s I have to directly communicate with the tyrants, and I refuse to let them dictate my life. Has anyone else faced obstacles maintaining faith, and MGTOW status? The only problem I see is that most religions aim to unite men, and women…which in this day and age is a no go. Do you ignore certain things that ask you to engage in anti MGTOW behaviors?!

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

We live in a vast and extremely complicated universe that we barely understand, are afraid of death and long for a sense of purpose, belonging and security. Faith isn’t rational but based on emotion, it helps people cope with reality.

Much like the worship of women Christianity is a way for men to calm their existential anxiety and take the weight of personal responsibility off their shoulders by submitting to an external authority, which isn’t extactly “a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else”.

[….Participant 305]

Hi Oldatheart…I have no conflict between MGTOW and my faith…thanks to a no bs  pastor I know that God does not reward stupidity by somebody who should know better. MGTOW has helped me know better than to get involved with women who have no interests but their own and for that, I am thankful.  I cannot see God having a problem with someone who has no desire to be in a toxic relationship…seeing people miserable brings him no pleasure. I would think he would have more disdain for a mangina.  Just remember the most important thing, we are to use discernment when dealing with people but leave the judging to God.Hope this helps….I also like to say I wish I was as on the ball as you are at your age!  Take care

[AntaresParticipant 208]

Hey, hopefully you won’t mind me rambling on the topic, but take it for what it’s worth. 🙂

Throughout history some of the greatest men have qualified as MGTOW. Often I hear the rationalization that they were gay, but I think this is more denial on the people saying that; like they can’t accept a man can go through life without a woman (although in some cases they probably were gay).

Michelangelo was devout to Christianity to the point of shunning women. He believed he had a gift from God and was so focused he considered women only a distraction. He didn’t care what anyone thought, only what God thought. In fact the only way he was convinced to paint the Sistine Chapel was because the pope convinced him God wanted it painted (he didn’t care if the pope wanted it painted). Another historical figure is Leo Tolstoy, who was an anarchist. I thought that was a strange philosophy, but his take was that he couldn’t stand behind any government which waged war – something he considered violating his Christian values.

Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is who do you answer to? God or people claiming to be Christian. Nearly every facet of our society violates rules of Christianity in some way or other, and in response Christians seem to rationalize it as humans “progressing” and old fashioned values no longer needed. Back when I had long hair, I’d occasionally catch flack for that by very conservative people (yes those types still exist). To which I’d say I’m trying to model myself after my hero. When they asked who that was, I’d simply reply: Jesus. That shut them right down. Did Jesus get married? No. Did Jesus have a girlfriend? No. In my opinion Christianity only aims to unite men and women when they are already together. I don’t see it as requiring you to be together in the first place.

Er, I won’t get into it much more (particularly about Christians being un-Christian) because this is already too long, but I think you’re taking a good step. Our society shuns spirituality as if it’s old fashioned, yet it seems like all throughout history this has been a key component in human life. All around I see people who seem lost and wondering what is missing in their lives,and I think spirituality is a big part of that.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get. -- Ben Graham

[FitzBonesParticipant 304]

Hmm a very sensitive subject for some.
I grew up in a very strict Christian family, was taught to read the bible daily and to think upon it to further my own understanding. I’m not religious now, but I do admit there are few books I know better than the Bible.
I’m not 100% certain, as its been many years since I last read it, but there is a passage of scripture in the New Testament that remarks upon marriage and children. Its one of the letters from Paul, perhaps Corinthians given the broad range of subjects those two letters covered. I cant recall it verbatim anymore but it mentions that it is far better for a man to be single and reach paradise than it is for a man who is married let alone a man with children. As a boy I listened to a number of sermons on those verses and the point of ‘focus’ was brought it.
The passage IS qualified with the statement basically saying “If they must be married, then they must” to do with pining for each other and their focus NOT being on theocratical things.
To the best of my understanding of Christianity as a general religion and not a specific denomination, singleness is good and often encouraged due to being able to focus more time and effort onto bible matters.
As regards religious MGTOW in regards to religious matters, simply treat them as you would anyone else or if thats too distant then perhaps the wife of a friend? Warm, but still keeping a respectful distance.

"If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"

[…Spectator 1165]

hey OldAtHeart:

Christianity! one of my favorite topics! I don’t see any conflict at all man. You may spend some time working this out for yourself but I’m sure you can do it. I think of Jesus as MGTOW from day one. Spoke the truth, came to his own conclusions, wasn’t married, left a huge impact, killed for what he believed in because no one could handle his words. One bad ass dude if you ask me. I keep flashing back to something St. Paul wrote in the New Testament about urging Christians to stay single, but only if they are able. Otherwise, take a wife. That always made sense to me, especially considering the historical era. It would be nice if Jesus would come back soon and show up at the forums to explain a bunch of s~~~ because as old as I am, I still have a boat load of questions and respect for that guy.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

This question has come up before and yes you can certainly be a religious MGTOW, because MGTOW is not faith-based, or a “belief system”. It’s a lifestyle choice grounded in reality. They are totally unrelated.

(…. unless you make some connection to atheism and MGTOW and you believe if you’re MGTOW you must now automatically be an atheist.)

As a non-religious man, I can tell you – to me – God definitely exist but not in the way I was taught in Sunday school or church. I never thought about it for many years and was sure I was an atheist (and still would say that I am) but “god” has come to mean something else to me – just recently. It is the natural order of things. Absolute truth. The way things ought to be. The “laws” of nature. A very basic sense of right and wrong. Animals are born with this too.

So you can absolutely believe in something intangible and spiritual on top of choosing a lifestyle – and both can be based entirely in reality.

There IS a natural order to things. It is undeniably present in all of us.
And that’s how “god” can exist in a MGTOW lifestyle.

Just one example. I expect no one to agree or understand.

---

If you are interested in the previous thread… perhaps search the forum for “faith”, “belief system”, “natural order” , or “god” and you should find it.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[ScarringsParticipant 7]

I think people here have already answered the question here very well, even citing Jesus and Paul.

My parents was Jehovahs Witnesses so you can guess there were some fury when they figured out my stance, especially my mother.  Some of my relatives(although not Jehovahs Witnesses) swore they will make fun of me the day i marry.

One way or another the people in the congregation could not control my behavior through marriage and went my own way and am considering myself agnostic today.

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

Worshipping a higher being without substantial evidence for its existence is as blue pill as it gets (blissful ignorance of illusion).

[Anonymous 42]

How far is up?…. How far back does time go?…. how far forward does time go?…. screw that! I have my belief in god, however my feet firmly planted in natural law, as dictated by natural law. Natural law doesn’t fail, we fail to observe natural law.

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

Keymaster: “A very basic sense of right and wrong. Animals are born with this too.”

I am also not religious but you beat me to the point that perceiving the reality of the female shecies (as apart from the male hescies) has nothing to do with having to understand the origin of both species. Meaning, was this universe created by an intelligent force or is everything ultimately explainable without one? The fundamental aspect of all religions is this: faith, which obviously varies among different individuals to the degree but which simply means accepting that which you cannot logically prove. This is how men got f~~~ed up in their thinking about women: we have almost always had faith that they must be rational and fair as well (I’m generalizing here) in their treatment of us, whereas the red pill reality is that they are not. So I see no disconnect whatsoever with being a religious MGTOW and also being aware of how women really are – the most obvious proof of this are priests who never marry or have sex with women.

As far as determining what is ‘right (good) and wrong (evil)’, that is a sticky wicket. For most religious people, that concept is given to them by the writings of their religion, essentially someone passing down in writing historical concepts from their main prophet of choice. As an example, the Koran explicitly urges unbelievers to be killed, whereas that isn’t true for most religions – this is diametrically opposed to Christianity’s notion of how you should treat unbelievers (I’ve read both the Koran and a modern Bible – the Crusades IMHO were an invention by man and not justified by the Christian Bible):

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

http://www.openbible.info/topics/killing_in_war

For us non-religious people, we must arrive at ‘ethics’ quite differently, and for me Ayn Rand’s Objectivism makes the most sense and it’s how I’ve tried since I was a teenager to follow it. While I consider “Atlas Shrugged” to be the best book I’ve ever read with respect to how it affected my life and made me explore her non-fiction work, the following book is what finally allowed me to understand what ‘good’ and ‘evil’ could mean to someone who didn’t believe in a higher being:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness

Please note: one of my uncles, now retired, was a Catholic monsignor and he could never convince me of that, and he basically said that either you have faith or you don’t. I do not denigrate anyone with faith whatsoever but do have almost complete disrespect for activist atheists who are hell-bent (pun intended) on demanding that only their viewpoint should be respected (mostly by suing to get faith-based signs, icons, images, etc. removed). Could I be wrong? Sure could, but until such time as I experience the proof of that I can only have the viewpoint that I have. As long as I continue to treat people with respect and fair play until I otherwise find out that they are not worthy of such treatment, I will have lived my life well. There is no value in belittling others who do not think the same way I do as I know I’m the exception and not the rule, and belittling people based on their having faith and me not would be a really sad and arrogant way to go through life.

Finally, to forestall any questions about this, my concept of death is exactly the state of non-consciousness that existed prior to my arrival in this reality, which is to say absolute unawareness of anything. It doesn’t trouble me any more than my pre-birth lack of awareness did, but I have like most people the concern about the process of getting there (will I suffer? will it be quick?). Oddly enough, I’ve experienced this ‘nothingness’ while undergoing 2 colonoscopies with deep sedation (propofol) – I had no consciousness nor memory whatsoever, I experienced absolute nothingness.

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

I do not denigrate anyone with faith whatsoever […] There is no value in belittling others who do not think the same way I do as I know I’m the exception and not the rule, and belittling people based on their having faith and me not would be a really sad and arrogant way to go through life.

We all just have equally valid opinions and should be nice and get along, right? No, f~~~ that feminine psychology which values acceptance and harmony higher than truth. There’s one ultimate reality and irrational bulls~~~ deserves to be pointed out when it affects others.

 

I do not denigrate anyone with faith whatsoever but do have almost complete disrespect for activist atheists who are hell-bent (pun intended) on demanding that only their viewpoint should be respected (mostly by suing to get faith-based signs, icons, images, etc. removed).

Let’s take Young Earth creationism for example, a belief that isn’t supported by substantial evidence and contradicts our scientific understanding of the universe. Are atheists wrong to argue that kids shouldn’t be indoctrinated with that irrational nonsense in public schools? No, they have a point and it’s not just another f~~~ing opinion.

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

I was not speaking to Young Earth creationism – that’s been disproven by facts and I agree with you on that. Just as the world is not flat and the universe does not rotate around the Earth. As far as your comment that I think that we all have equally valid opinions, you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that anyone’s opinion is equally valid, the definition of which is “having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.”. What I did say was that, and if you read my entire post you would have realized it, no one’s position as to whether or not a higher being exists can be proven logically. Can you prove one doesn’t exist? I’m not talking about whether such a universe is logically possible because I already think that, but the problem is that neither you nor I can prove that they are wrong, and they cannot prove to us that they are right.

It’s a classic Catch-22 – while I may truly believe with all the reason at my command that there is no higher being I cannot prove it, so to aggressively mock or attack others who do believe that is not only counter-productive but, on the simple basis of logic, irrational, because not only will one not convince someone of faith but one will ostracize themselves in the process because of their attitude. The point I was trying to make was that each of us has to live our lives the best way we know how, and for me the best way is not to run around throwing hard, solid, nonmetallic mineral matter at silica structures. I will not allow anyone else to dictate what I should think as I know you won’t, but the rest of my previous post stands as written as to why I see no value in attacking them when I myself cannot prove my own theological views are actually valid no matter how much I may believe them to be true.

p.s. When I consider all the lives in history that have been lost in countless wars due to religion I also remind myself of the barbaric slaughter of equal numbers by non-believers, most recently in the 20th century. We are equally at fault. But I do agree with the great James Randi that ‘extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof’, which is why I have always thought that if you want me to believe in a higher being on the magnitude of God than you darn well better show me extraordinary proof, and I’ve never gotten that, but a few personal friends of mine have sincerely told me they had experiences that ‘showed them the way’. Since I can’t know what they’ve experienced I cannot accept it for myself. And yes, whether you realize it or not you actually did denigrate those of faith with your 2nd post “Worshipping a higher being without substantial evidence for its existence is as blue pill as it gets (blissful ignorance of illusion).” You just told them that they are blissfully ignorant, which is your right to do so, but you cannot evade the reality of that statement and its impact on those of faith. You are claiming knowledge which it is literally impossible for you to have – you simply cannot prove your own belief logically, and neither can I. I believe with all my reason that you and I are correct, but it’s still just a belief, while I can prove that the NFL is full of f~~~ing surprises as in the GB/Sea game.

Peace 🙂

[TYEParticipant 291]

I agree with GoneGalt my issue with many Atheist, and Religious people is their “i’m certain by word of mouth” attitude. Word of mouth is not good enough, and until someone can prove that a god doesn’t, or does exist it is blasphemy to say that one does/doesn’t. Should a womans word of mouth be good enough to lock up a man?!  Nobody has the right to tell a religious person to prove their god, and not prove that one doesn’t exist. I shouldn’t be told to prove i’m innocent without someone first providing evidence to prove that i’m guilty. Creationism has been proven wrong 100%, but Atheist can only disprove religion by 50% if not less, and the same goes for the religious that seek to disprove scientific theories.

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

As far as your comment that I think that we all have equally valid opinions, you’re putting words in my mouth.

Okay, sorry about that.

 

Can you prove one doesn’t exist? […] You are claiming knowledge which it is literally impossible for you to have – you simply cannot prove your own belief logically, and neither can I.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I don’t know because there’s no sufficient evidence for either position and I don’t claim I do because that would be intellectually dishonest. There’s no need for belief because one can simply acknowledge uncertainty.

 

You just told them that they are blissfully ignorant, which is your right to do so, but you cannot evade the reality of that statement and its impact on those of faith.

Is it rude to tell kids that believing in Santa is irrational? Yeah probably but it’s true nonetheless. Again, I am not claiming to know that God doesn’t exist nor do I need to know to say that belief in a personal God is irrational. Like you said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof’”.

[…Spectator 1165]

GG: a lotta good p0ints in there. i’m still on the fence about religion because my upbringing was so strict it is hard to break free of sometimes. still, i think religion in past centuries was a great organizing tool for society at the time. today looking back at history, i think that human nature is so s~~~ty that we would have had all those wars regardless. war of the roses. war of the sugar plum fairies, etc. the religious leaders figured it out first and sent people marching off to their deaths while staying home f~~~ing the hottest girls in secret, feasting on the best food available and to me that isn’t much different the s~~~ going on in the US today.

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

There’s no NEED for belief, you can just admit that in reality you have no f~~~ing clue.

Did I not already say that?

And again, I am not claiming to know that God doesn’t exist nor do I need to know to say that belief in a personal God is irrational.

“Worshipping a higher being without substantial evidence for its existence is as blue pill as it gets (blissful ignorance of illusion).”

Sorry, I’m calling you out here on your statement that you are “not claiming to know that God doesn’t exist” – if that’s true then why did you say that those believing he/it does exist is (somewhat paraphrased) “blissfully ignorant of illusion”? What other conclusion can a rational person come to? You are specifically stating in that sentence that those with a faith in God are ‘blissfully ignorant of illusion’, meaning their belief in God is false. How else can any reasonable person reading your words interpret your statement?

Keep in mind that I do not believe in God philosophically, yet I am compelled to defend the concept of such if only to show others that (1) you must respect people of faith as we do not ourselves know all the answers and (2) we might be f~~~ing wrong.

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

Sorry, I’m calling you out here on your statement that you are “not claiming to know that God doesn’t exist” – if that’s true then why did you say that those believing he/it does exist is (somewhat paraphrased) “blissfully ignorant of illusion”?

Believing in a personal God (being confident that he exists) is blue pill as f~~~ because that confidence is illusionary in that it is unjustified by evidence. Taking the red pill in this case would mean acknowledging that we don’t actually know for a fact whether God exists or not and that believing in his existence (or non-existence) is therefore unjustified. Same thing with fairies and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

One of the best and most valuable piece of advice my father ever gave me was to never discuss politics or religion with anyone. When I asked him why, he said the topics are too vast, impossible to grasp fully with any oversight, and based on a belief system. Nobody “knows”.

In fact one of the best arguments I ever heard against a bible-thumper (after genuis Christopher Hitchens) was exactly that:

“Oh yeah? Well if there’s no God then who made the Earth??”

MANSWER: “I don’t know. And neither do you.”

Just keep saying it, and they will shut the f~~~ up.

As it turns out, it was million dollar advice. A friend of mine was trying to pin me down in a social setting. He could NOT get a straight answer out of me because I am right on some things and left on others. Neutral on some of it too. But he wanted me to say something anti-LIBERAL so that he could crucify me. He did not get the opportunity and it really p~~~ed him off.

After 25 years, we don’t speak any more. Because of his stupid f~~~ing stunt.

When you enter into political religious debates with people you allow them to treat you according to your THOUGHTS and OPINIONS instead of your ACTIONS. They have a problem with how you THINK. That’s f~~~ed up. I don’t recommend giving them that out. When I show up to your house with a bottle of wine and flowers for the hostess because you invited me for dinner…. and you behave like I treated you badly because I said something different from your political viewpoint, go f~~~ yourself, you’re not my friend.

Just a thought inspired by this thread. I like this topic and it should be turned into an article because we get the question alot.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

“Taking the red pill in this case would mean acknowledging that we don’t actually know whether a personal God exists or not and believing in its existence (or non-existence) is therefore unjustified.”

Well, you just agreed with me whether or not you realized it, in a manner. You are saying that because human beings do not know whether or not God exists is sufficient to declare that their belief in an un-proven existence of God is therefore unjustified. Correct?

Also, your red pill experience admits that you don’t know whether or not God actually exists – that’s what you’ve said: “Taking the red pill in this case would mean acknowledging that we don’t actually know whether a personal God exists or not and believing in its existence (or non-existence) is therefore unjustified”. Let me rephrase your argument this way: according to what you just stated, you have no idea whether or not God exists. So you are saying, as I personally believe, that there is no God. But the problem with your argument is that it isn’t logical – you are saying that because no one can prove God exists that he doesn’t exist, but yet you cannot prove he does not. Pure logic. As far as I think anyone claiming to be someone who knows there is no higher being in this universe responsible for it is, at best, not understanding what understanding the human condition is really all about. I believe with all my rationality that there is no higher being but, being honest with my true self, cannot ever prove there isn’t, so however I might view anyone else’s view of this topic I will never view them in any other light than who they actually are outside of the subject of religion.

I’ve known too many loved ones who believe with their every fiber of their being in a higher being, and I am not so presumptuous as think I can deliver them the truth of this world when I myself am not 100% sure.

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