Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Cannabis Legalization
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Jeremiah Johnson 3 years, 9 months ago.
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Anonymous3cannabis should illegal
So I assume you believe that alcohol should be illegal for exactly the same reasons, right?
No. I think alcohol should remain legal (though I should also add that I am myself near-teetotal, as I drink only very rarely).
But if you would presume to pick and choose which substances I’m allowed to imbibe purely for your own arbitrary reasons,
That’s not quite my position. Law is man-made and must ‘pick and choose’, but that does not make it arbitrary.
The risks associated with cannabis are – in my opinion – vastly understated, and I don’t like the motives of the people who favour legalisation. I have seen the consequences of cannabis use myself. It weakens the mind and has a demotivational effect on people. It can also result in violence. The idea that cannabis users are placid and peaceful is a myth, in my experience. I have seen cannabis users become hysterical and violent.
The comparison with alcohol is a weak basis for an argument because it doesn’t address the risks cannabis presents. If we accept that alcohol entails risk, then how does legalising cannabis make the situation better? It is, in truth, a poor argument. You’ll have to do better.
However, it is true that alcohol offers us a comparator, so let’s briefly discuss it. Alcohol does have some of the same risks and can be dangerous, but it is socially accepted, which is why it has remained legal. Rightly or wrongly, the law must reflect social norms and customs and what people will tolerate, or it won’t be obeyed, and alcohol is ingrained culturally and part of normal life. The same cannot quite be said of cannabis. You don’t generally hear respectable people say: “Let’s have a spliff tonight”. I accept it does depend on the company you keep, but generally speaking that’s not the kind of conversation responsible people have. But they might say: “Let’s have a pint”.
Banning alcohol would be impossible anyway, as it can be home-brewed quite easily and unobtrusively. The law would easily be made a mockery of. It’s generally recognised that people need to let off steam and have fun. In the case of alcohol, there is a broader range of usage: including people, like me, who might have a drink every other Christmas, or not at all, and also moderate drinkers who only drink now and then, and present no risk. I doubt there are many cannabis users who have the occasional spliff every few months or once a week, though I am sure there will be people like that, especially among the ‘respectable’ and ‘responsible’ classes of the population I mentioned earlier – and that being the case, they can take their chances with the law, and if caught, they should face the music.
I am not a Nanny, but I think in the case of cannabis, legalising it would result in more users. I think here in England the law should remain as it is and should be more stringently enforced. People found dealing or in possession should normally be prosecuted, with the possibility of prison if they are users or dealers.
then that’s about as anti freedom and anti American as can be.
I’m not American, I’m British, so I don’t care if my position is anti-American or not, but calls to ‘freedom’ leave me unmoved in this particular matter. Self-abuse is not freedom, especially when this self-abuse might lead you to inflict damage on others and potentially turn yourself into a dependent – though I also accept that would be an extreme case and that most cannabis users are probably left unharmed (or at least, that appears to be the case).
Especially when one of the substances is clearly less harmful overall than the other, yet the less harmful one is the one you’ve chosen to outlaw.
That’s very much a matter of opinion, but even if true, I do not see how it is an argument for legalising cannabis, especially when you use these telling words: “less harmful overall than the other”. That’s quite revealing. You admit cannabis is harmful. Can you tell us how harmful?
On the other hand, lots of recreational substances can be harmful, but are still allowed. As you rightly say, alcohol is harmful. So is tobacco. However, my point remains – while true, this is not an argument for legalising cannabis.
Anonymous3My question is to you and Jack. Are you guys for legal Alcohol and Tobacco? If so, why against a much less harmful drug?
As stated above:
(i). You are adopting a premise that I don’t necessarily accept. As cannabis is still officially illegal in most civilised places, the onus is on you to show us evidence that supports what you are saying.
(i). Even if it turns out that cannabis is “less harmful”, how does that justify legalising cannabis? It’s not an argument.
Anonymous24My question is to you and Jack. Are you guys for legal Alcohol and Tobacco? If so, why against a much less harmful drug?
As stated above:
(i). You are adopting a premise that I don’t necessarily accept. As cannabis is still officially illegal in most civilised places, the onus is on you to show us evidence that supports what you are saying.
(i). Even if it turns out that cannabis is “less harmful”, how does that justify legalising cannabis? It’s not an argument.
Well, you are just arguing in favor of ignorance. You say you are ok with legal alcohol and that banning it would be impossible because it can be home brewed. Guess what, a lot of people grow their own weed.
Cannabis IS 100% proven to be less harmful than Alcohol. Nixon even had a study, and when his own study came back and said it was mostly benign he threw the study in the trash. Just as you do with all logic so far in this argument.
Car accidents, and violence are not caused by weed, clearly they are caused by drunks… You say you have seen people become violent while stoned??? Really? Maybe violently tearing open a bag of Doritos. I have been around stoned and drunk people beyond the amount needed to conduct my own study, and let me tell you what, I have never seen two stoned people get into a fight, but I have seen countless drunks do so.
Are you of the generation that was indoctrinated by movies like Reefer Madness? I really can’t take anything you have said with any seriousness. Violent stoners?
The only point that may hold any weight is the demotivational point you make. Now, I know many very financially successful stoners… and I know many who are just more satisfied in life with less. Many shun convention and are happy as bohemian types. Guess what? I would rather be around happy poor stoners, than angry drunks any day of the week. So this observation is marginal at best. If something makes you happy with less pointing out that those people have less is really a moot point.
Also arguing that something is less harmful that is illegal vs. something that is more harmful that you are ok with being legal is a perfectly sound argument to be having…
I completely agree with Jack on this 100% in every way. I couldn’t have said it better myself. But I care very little since anyone who wants weed gets it illegally anyways.
|Right Wing Death Squad| Swallowed both Red Pills /pol/MGTOW
Anonymous24I completely agree with Jack on this 100% in every way. I couldn’t have said it better myself. But I care very little since anyone who wants weed gets it illegally anyways.
Really? Oh man you two… There are many states that have medical marijuana… Are you guys just messing with me at this point? Oh, and isn’t it completely legal in Colorado now as well?
I’ll put my two cents in this, even though I don’t take drugs of any kind.
Cannabis should be legal as a medical salve or any other kind. Any recreational drug shouldn’t be. We could talk about alcohol or tobacco and their pros and cons all day. Honestly, they’re in the same bag as weed, with the exception of them being legalized already as a result of the public’s willingness to ignore the laws prohibiting such items. And I can’t undo that. If I was president, I probably wouldn’t legalize recreational uses for them. For the best of the public. Yea, I’m evil.
But as liberal and gynocentric Western society has become, I think marijuana has been one of those things that the government still has more control over when it comes to legalizing it.
At this point, I don’t believe that the debate is on whether it will kill you or not, but rather the government’s lack of faith in the United States population, especially considering the rising notion that most people (87.2%) don’t actually use marijuana for medical or health purposes. I was watching one of MisterMetokur’s Metocasts and this was cited.
About the legalizing all recreational drugs thing:
I remember reading A Scanner Darkly by Philip K. Dick, and there was a story within the story about a girl who was injected with the fictitious drug Substance D while she was sleeping as a “joke”, and she got f~~~ed up from there. So, it isn’t necessarily the user’s fault if their lives are f~~~ed up. That’s what I’m afraid might happen if ALL recreational drugs are legalized. It seems entirely possible to me.
I’ve gotten some new insights on the issue also. I remember when I signed up for an internship near my local county. Because I actually wasn’t old enough to do the engineering internship program, I ended up working as a weed cutter. While I was out for lunch with my supervisor, I asked him why a lot of the potential interns didn’t get accepted. he said that the main reason was because of the drug test. Then he told me that this is done not only because the drugs can hinder a person’s performance at work, but also to make choosing applicants easier. Even if marijuana was legalized, certain companies can still not hire you for that same reason. And the applicant might never know that. Even if people protested this, it may not change. It’s evil, but I actually think it’s smart. Because people can be sheep.
Only time will tell what happens.
I completely agree with Jack on this 100% in every way. I couldn’t have said it better myself. But I care very little since anyone who wants weed gets it illegally anyways.
Really? Oh man you two… There are many states that have medical marijuana… Are you guys just messing with me at this point?
I know I don’t have anything against medicinal use only against recreational use.
|Right Wing Death Squad| Swallowed both Red Pills /pol/MGTOW
Anonymous42Crony capitalism and propaganda are the only reason it’s Illega;. The marijuana tax stamp of 1937 argued that Marijuana made black men compromise white women, meanwhile in the real world a machine was invented for harvesting hemp fiber and making it more profitable than cotton, The cotton growers weren’t having it, so they formed a crony coalition using propaganda to secure their crony economy. Propaganda ploys included “refer madness 1936” where Jacks mindset originates.
As long as people don’t drive while under the influence, I don’t have a problem with it. People are going to use it whether it’s legal or not so the government might as well make it legal and tax it. The tax money can be redirected to other things like improving health care.
Anonymous42
Last but least; MADE FROM USA HEMP
I’ve done my research including hands-on research -growing and selection, making concentrates and cooking with it, and I can attest that cannabis is the most amazing plant on the face of the earth. Not only buds, but seeds and stalk – all of it is just the gift from God. It’s got 21 medicinal compounds in bud, it’s fiber and oil – it’s better that any other culture known to man. The fact it’s illegal is completely ludicrous
Its cultivation brings all kinds of cheap medicine, fiber and biofuel. It even cleans the soil it grows on from toxic elements. It’s godsend.
Right now I haven’t smoked for 3 weeks because I’m unemployed and I need to get a job and pass a p~~~ test, but I haven’t had any withdrawals whatsoever. I miss it, but it’s well worth the wait.
People who are sciso-prone shouldn’t use it, but those are the people who get paranoid in public, so they know they shouldn’t do it. It won over prozac in double-blind trials as an antidepressant, and I can attest to it. It helped me a lot to get through some very hard times, not once and not twice.proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome
Anonymous11Crony capitalism and propaganda are the only reason it’s Illegal
The DuPonts were highly influential behind Cheeba being made illegal in the 30s. It competed with their synthetic inventions like Nylon. Hemp is a very versatile plant and had to be eliminated in order for them to make money. This hemp cannot get one high.
I used to smoke very regularly 20 odd years ago but quit due to personal choice. I would not use it if it were legal as it is a waste of my time. However, my choice means nothing for others.
It is morally wrong to ruin people’s lives over such a benign drug especially when compared to the damages Alcohol causes. No one will force you to use it Jack, I promise.
Reefer Madness is the biggest joke propaganda movie ever made. “Faster, faster, faster….”
Anonymous3My question is to you and Jack. Are you guys for legal Alcohol and Tobacco? If so, why against a much less harmful drug?
As stated above:
(i). You are adopting a premise that I don’t necessarily accept. As cannabis is still officially illegal in most civilised places, the onus is on you to show us evidence that supports what you are saying.
(i). Even if it turns out that cannabis is “less harmful”, how does that justify legalising cannabis? It’s not an argument.
Well, you are just arguing in favor of ignorance. You say you are ok with legal alcohol and that banning it would be impossible because it can be home brewed. Guess what, a lot of people grow their own weed.
I am not arguing from ignorance. I have a lot of experience of life and the world in general. I have, on one occasion only, taken cannabis myself. I have also known people who grow it, and I have done time in prison and had wealthy international drug lords explain their businesses to me. I am not some kind of ingénu. I could write a book on the illicit drug industry, based on what I know.
I know people can grow their own, but (at least where I come from) very few people would. Cannabis just isn’t something that most people want to use or do use. Why? Well, we could write volumes on the subject, but for now it’s enough for me to observe that this is the way things are.
Generally-speaking, people don’t hear their boss at work say:
“Hey Jimmy, how about we discuss that pay raise over some spliffs?”
“Sure thing, Mr Jones, I’ll be right with you after I’ve finished that report for Whiny F~~~~~s Associates. Say, did you receive that shipment from Tyrone with the Colorado pot? I’ve heard it’s got extra high THC. Phew, that stuff blows your mind, man!”
“You said it, Jimmy!”
This is not a common experience. It’s just not something people do, in general. Obviously I say ‘in general’ because I appreciate that a minority of people will have had experiences roughly comparable to this, especially in certain industries and in certain geographic locations, but such people are few and far between in most places. Why? Who knows? F~~~ knows. Knock yourself out, or write a book. That’s just how it is, and that’s why the law is how it us. The law reflects (imperfectly) what people think about things, or what people in society will tolerate.
Cannabis IS 100% proven to be less harmful than Alcohol. Nixon even had a study, and when his own study came back and said it was mostly benign he threw the study in the trash. Just as you do with all logic so far in this argument.
I’m sure there are lots of studies that suggest lots of things, in both directions. We could sit here all night arguing over this study or that study. I largely base my views on three things:
– Common-sense – I can see that cannabis is harmful, therefore I ask: why legalise it? This is just common-sense.
– Experience – I have had to confront violent people high on cannabis. I know cannabis is harmful and sometimes goes hand-in-hand with violence. I cannot be sure that the cannabis made them violent – the causation is unclear – but I have seen with my own eyes that cannabis does not always pacify or placate people.
– Philosophical reasons – Even if cannabis does pacify people in most cases, I would find this thoroughly objectionable in its own right. I don’t want people to be pacified or peaceful. I want people to be angry and awake. I think a drug that makes people ‘peaceful’ is just as dangerous as a drug that makes people violent.
Car accidents, and violence are not caused by weed, clearly they are caused by drunks…
Are you sure about this? I’ve also been a lawyer, and I distinctly recall seeing people in court accused of drug driving. People do drive under the influence of drugs and are caught and prosecuted as such.
You say you have seen people become violent while stoned??? Really? Maybe violently tearing open a bag of Doritos. I have been around stoned and drunk people beyond the amount needed to conduct my own study, and let me tell you what, I have never seen two stoned people get into a fight, but I have seen countless drunks do so.
I have seen people get into fights while stoned. I cannot be sure that the cannabis made them violent, but I do know for sure that claims that cannabis makes people non-violent or that being stoned precludes violence are untrue.
Are you of the generation that was indoctrinated by movies like Reefer Madness? I really can’t take anything you have said with any seriousness. Violent stoners?
I have not seen that film and don’t intend to. This is not a ‘generation thing’. I was born in the late 70s, so I am still relatively young. Cannabis use was, I suspect, much more widespread among my parents’ generation than mine. I base my views on what I have said above – common-sense, experience and my views about the harm drugs do socially. People should try to remain in control of their faculties. I do not wish to live in a society in which people are pacified, stupefied and ‘happy’.
The only point that may hold any weight is the demotivational point you make. Now, I know many very financially successful stoners… and I know many who are just more satisfied in life with less. Many shun convention and are happy as bohemian types. Guess what? I would rather be around happy poor stoners, than angry drunks any day of the week. So this observation is marginal at best. If something makes you happy with less pointing out that those people have less is really a moot point.[/unquote]
Do these people need to take cannabis to be happy?
[quote quote=226712]Also arguing that something is less harmful that is illegal vs. something that is more harmful that you are ok with being legal is a perfectly sound argument to be having…
Not really. You’re admitting that cannabis is harmful. If, for the sake of argument, we accept your contention that alcohol is more harmful, we are not reducing harms by legalising something else that is harmful.
Just month before my divorce I was about to make a deal with a gas-chromatograph lab so they could help me do selective breeding to isolate specific compounds for medicinal use and breed strains that would have been alternatives to most commonly used pharmaceutical drugs, but not I can’t do it because my destiny now resides on the mercy of my XW. I have to put the passion of my life on the backburner now
proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome
Anonymous11People do drive under the influence of drugs and are caught and prosecuted as such.
However, the Law and what is right or wrong are not necessarily the same thing. I can never recall any car accidents or deaths being caused by a driver being high on reefer. Pills and alcohol on the other hand are a different story.
My State will prosecute for driving under the influence for any amount of metabolites detected. Marijuana metabolites can be excreted for 7 to 90 days after ceasing to consume it. That is the Law. The Law is f~~~ing immoral.
F~~~ the god damn Law. Hilary does every f~~~ing day.
Common-sense – I can see that cannabis is harmful, therefore I ask: why legalise it? This is just common-sense.
Alcohol is immeasurably more harmful and more culturally accepted in the West yet it does not directly threaten the petrochemical industry.
Cannabis just isn’t something that most people want to use or do use.
Where are you getting your stats form sir? I am curious if you could point to even ONE reference that showed us this number? Not being disrespectful in any way sir, I just want the actual hard evidence on this quote.
Men are at a time when panning for gold in a urinal has a higher probability of success than finding a faithful and loving woman, it is time to go your own way.....
Nevermind, I don’t think you will find such evidence. I certainly did not mean to bring up a topic that divides us instead of bringing us together, I just wanted to know each man’s personal opinion on this subject and feel terrible that it has instead divided our ranks…
To Jack though – I feel that many men jumped your wagon very quickly, and the reason I personally felt they did so was that instead of sharing just “your own” opinion, you started too speak for MANY people instead, you included “MOST” people “most successful” people and “criminal” people, and sir I am not trying to be mean, but you cannot possibly have the thoughts of ALL those people, you just cannot…and that stirs things up in people when you take their opinion away for them, but again this is just my thoughts on the matter, that being said I am dropping this, did not mean to bring out so much hostility…Men are at a time when panning for gold in a urinal has a higher probability of success than finding a faithful and loving woman, it is time to go your own way.....
I’m for legalizing all drugs. Weed, cocaine, meth, etc. As long as a person isn’t operating anything such as cars while consuming them, I’m cool with it.
As the feminist saying goes: “it’s my body, it’s my choice.”
And to quote the bible: “Do you not know that your bodies are temples?”
I use drugs in moderation and I’ll never use something like meth. But, I would definitely end up using something such as marijuana.
______________________________
I may also end up moving to some place like Colorado or Washington state though. Marijuana has a lot of benefits when you get older and start to have pain/other health problems.
In my mind, marijuana is so much better than pain killers and it has so many more uses and undiscovered potential.
Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius
To Jeremiah Johnson,
One of my best friends of over twenty years had polio in his youth. He is now 67 years old and is in various stages of pain intensity. He has and is taking opioide based medication. About two years ago he started drinking alcohol because it helped reduce the pain. However, he started drinking heavy and his wife got on his case so he quit about a year ago. His wife went on vacation to a european country last week. My friend called me last Friday desperate for some alcohol because his pain was unbearable. I immediately rushed over bringing some high quality bourbon. The bourbon reduced the pain drastically and we had a great time together.
We have been discussing the issue of marijuana and I can tell that he would try it but is hesitant because it is illegal. After seeing him in pain over the years, I am considering obtaining some for him because the opioids do not work as well and reduce his mental capacity (he has three masters degrees). He is married to a high level nurse and has three adult male children who are all very successful. He is a saint.
We are both law abiding citizens but have discussed the absurdity of having a plethora of opiode based medicine in our country but not THC based medicines for pain. We have come to the conclusion that opiode based medication is easier to control allowing drug companies to profit handsomely. Marijuana, since it can be grown by anybody, like wine and beer, could not be controlled and therefore not as profitable.Jeremiah J, my question to you is this: how long did you ingest marijuana to relieve the pain? Did you ingest it daily or periodically?
Needless to say, your experience and opinion is highly desired by me at this critical time.
God bless, Michael
I will be lifting you up in prayer.Jeremiah J, my question to you is this: how long did you ingest marijuana to relieve the pain? Did you ingest it daily or periodically?
Needless to say, your experience and opinion is highly desired by me at this critical time.
1. I tried two ways – both had different affects on me. Smoking it provided instant relief, and I mean instant, no wait time needed. When I made it into a butter (cannabis butter) I made chocolate chip cookies, and oatmeal raisin cookies. The wait was much longer, it took about 45 minutes to a full hour sometimes to start feeling the relief, but when it came on, it came on all at once, not at all like the smoking, where you can stop when you don’t want to go any further. But after working the right mixture of buds into butter, (I had it figured out in 2 batches) I really enjoyed the eating much better. The reason for this was two fold, a) It lasted for anywhere from 4 to 6 hours, and was very great pain relief. b) You can take “canna cookies” anywhere in the world, and no one ever questions what your eating, while you cannot do that with the smoking.
But I found that it was really great having the smoking available as well, instant relief, while waiting for coookies, and enjoyed the flavors of the smoke, but that is just me.
2. I have at least 4 pinched nerves at all times, sciatica, and have at least 2 fully burst disc’s, I believe that number has gone up since my last MRI, more pain, and no cartilage left in any joint in my body. That has made for severe bone damage in my hips, knees, shoulders, ankles, hands, and fingers, pain x a bunch. Now some days are worse than others, but a best day is probably 7 on 1 – 10 pain scale. That said, I either ate a couple of cookies and smoked a couple of times a day, or smoked every 2 to 3 hours for the whole day, or ate 2 cookies every 4 to 6 hours. Every day.
3. There are several types of cannabis available. a) Indica b) Sativa c) CBD e) Indica dominant hybrid etc etc etc you get my point. I found that the Indica dominant strains helped me the very best, that said in Arizona at the time I was there, there was no CBD only strains available, so I have not been able to try that yet, so I am not sure about that strain.
Any other questions please feel free to either ask here, or just PM me and I can answer them there more quietly.
I hope this helps sir, cannabis is so much better than the opiates, I would choose cannabis every time over them, I was so lost on them, a complete zombie, funny thing is most people think that is what you are when you smoke cannabis, wow are they so incorrect. Try seeing someone take 80 Mg of Percocet a day, total zombie, It was terrible, I really hope this helps brother.Men are at a time when panning for gold in a urinal has a higher probability of success than finding a faithful and loving woman, it is time to go your own way.....
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