Canadian Brothers, Tell me about your country’s healthcare system

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

I’m a U.S. Citizen and currently live in the USA.

A few weeks ago, I woke up in severe pain and was taken to the hospital 10 minutes away by ambulance. Docs diagnosed me with a kidney stone. Nothing else was done- no blood tests, no medicine given, no CT scan, etc.

Total bill? $2K for the ambulance + $200 for the ER = $2.2K. RIDICULOUS.

I’ve had it with the U.S. Healthcare system.
I am perfectly willing to become a dual citizen with Canada, to live and practice there, and to happily pay taxes there if it means that I’ll have access to the universal healthcare system there.

A few questions for Canadians:
1) Are all medical emergencies covered? What about general wellness visits with the PCP?
2) Do you have monthly premiums for medical care?
3) How much do major procedures cost? Are they truly free?
4) Any complaints about the Canadian system?

[shadowParticipant 156]

Well an ambulance will cost you, having been transported in one a couple times and also by helicopter but definitely not 2k for a ride 10min away. I will just say if you are concerned about healthcare then definitely Canada is a better place for you. I have broken many bones, been cut up and had to have had a couple major operations done which I think might have been covered due to being a young age under OHIP but you will have to double check. But still what you pay in the US and the service you receive is honestly a joke compared to here!
I haven’t had much complaint except one time I broke my collar bone getting hit on my bike by some bitch in a BMW and they literally gave me a gauze wrap to prop my arm to keep it immobilized. It was pathetic. The only real problem is waiting, unless you are gunna die on the spot, the waiting time can be rather long.

Here is a link with most of the info you need: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/pub_ohip.aspx

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

It depends on how much you enjoy wasting your life away in waiting rooms.

[SeamusTheDogParticipant 78]

I hate to break this to you, but except for Israel, the US doesn’t allow any new applicants for dual citizenship. You have to choose US or your new home. Not both. Why does Israel get a pass? So people like Rahm Emmanuel can be a presidential candidate’s advisor without raising suspicions. (Obama’s in his case).

"All your children are poor, unfortunate victims of systems beyond their control... A plague upon your ignorance to the great despair of your ugly life!" -Frank Zappa

[TheroniusParticipant 975]

SeamusTheDog wrote:

I hate to break this to you, but except for Israel, the US doesn’t allow any new applicants for dual citizenship.

Both the US and Canada allow dual citizenship. You can keep your US citizenship and apply for Canadian citizenship, but you have to move there. You can’t just join another country and stay in the US. But if you are a natural-born citizen of either country you don’t lose that by gaining the other. You don’t actually “apply” for dual citizenship. You become a citizen of the new one, but don’t lose the old one. For certain countries, the US can take your citizenship away if you move there and become a citizen, but it’s not normally done.
The difference with Israel is that Israel will grant citizenship to people who don’t live there.
Michelle Bachman and Ted Cruz had dual citizenship (Canadian, Swiss) until recently when they renounced the others.

"I am is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that I do is the longest sentence?" - George Carlin

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

It depends, for surgery you can wait many months perhaps even a year. One of the doctor I went to told me to go to the USA for medical treatment when I try to make him to run some test. I totally lost the faith in the health care system.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

shadow wrote:

But still what you pay in the US and the service you receive is honestly a joke compared to here!

Can you explain what you mean a little more? Is it the pricing that makes the U.S. a joke compared to Canada?

sidecar wrote:

It depends on how much you enjoy wasting your life away in waiting rooms

Well, the way I see it, if I go to an ER in the U.S., I encounter a 4-5 hr wait anyways…At least I know that Canada won’t bankrupt me for a medical emergency…

Crazy Canuck wrote:

It depends, for surgery you can wait many months perhaps even a year. One of the doctor I went to told me to go to the USA for medical treatment when I try to make him to run some test. I totally lost the faith in the health care system.

Let me ask like this: suppose someone is having a medical emergency/is in lots of pain. Would they be seen right away at an emergency room and for free at the point of service?

Only situations like normal annual checkups have waiting times right? Urgent situations don’t have this right?

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

I have waited sometimes more than 8 hours at the emergency room, that’s partly due to the doctor shortage.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

Crazy Canuck wrote:

I have waited sometimes more than 8 hours at the emergency room, that’s partly due to the doctor shortage.

Would you rather have the American system? Where a medical emergency can bankrupt you instantly?

This is pretty cool: http://www.edwaittimes.ca/WaitTimes.aspx

Turns out, you can track which ER you’d have to wait at the longest, and plan your trip like that! Man, Canada is looking really good to me right now.

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

In Canada there are people wait more than 6 hours after having a heart attack. My best friend’s wife got poor medical treatment from the doctors from the emergency that the specialists was YELLING at them for not doing their job. Part of the reason she died of an infection.

http://www.canada.com/health/turning+patients+away+common+hospitals+survey/5010628/story.html

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

Crazy Canuck wrote:

In Canada there are people wait more than 6 hours after having a heart attack. My best friend’s wife got poor medical treatment from the doctors from the emergency that the specialists was YELLING at them for not doing their job. Part of the reason she died of an infection.

Yikes…..that…..sounds pretty bad.
Time to look at other countries that do healthcare very well…..Iceland, France, Spain, Germany, etc.

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

Oneforfreedom wrote:

Man, Canada is looking really good to me right now.

I lived in both countries and I can tell you it really depends on the region and on personal preferences.

So, while it’s true that the American ER can bankrupt you, it can only do that if you were irresponsible enough to go without health insurance. In the US it’s (was before Obamacare) your choice. In Canada the government assumes the citizens are all stupid and irresponsible so it just takes money out of your salary and gives you insurance for “free”.
The other difference is that waiting times are longer in Canada, but this also depends on the city/province and the individual hospitals.
I bled in ERs in the states for many hours too before any doctor saw me, so it all depends.
For general healthcare issues, US beats Canada both in wait times, access and quality, although not by much, and Canada beats the US price wise(most of the services are ‘free’). There are also private clinics in Canada too, so if you can afford it you can get good, fast service.

So, all in all, from my (limited) experience with both systems, they are relatively close. If you live in a northern, deep blue US state, it might make sense to move to Canada, otherwise, not really.
You have to remember that Canada is f~~~ing COLD. The Canadian dollar is weak, wages are smaller, prices are higher, many products are difficult to get in Canada vs US and are double the price in many cases (just compare amazon.com to amazon.ca). On the plus side, the cities are safer and people are nicer in Canada, because the overall culture is not as competitive as the US (but this can be a negative, depending on your politics/views). You’ll have to decide if the so called “free” healthcare in Canada is worth all the above negatives. And remember, you will still be paying for healthcare, just not directly, but through higher taxes (backdoor socialist style).

In my opinion this is the difference:
US: you give money, you receive service. Or, buy insurance, receive service and insurance pays (some hustle might be involved).
CA: bureaucrat takes your money, gets her cut, pays the union thug, then pays doctor, who may or may not give you service

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

Oneforfreedom wrote:

Time to look at other countries that do healthcare very well…..Iceland, France, Spain, Germany, etc.

Judging by your profile name, you don’t want to go there. They are all socialist countries (AKA, not too much freedom for you)

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

John Woods 13 wrote:

So, while it’s true that the American ER can bankrupt you, it can only do that if you were irresponsible enough to go without health insurance

I have insurance. Trust me- it’s not enough. The insurance company is willing to reimburse up to 90% of the ambulance ride IF and ONLY IF, it can be proven that it was a “true emergency”- now I felt like I could die at any second, so to me it is, but I know I have to wrestle with them to prove this now….

And I am still on the hook for $400: $200 ambulance and $200ER.

John Woods 13 wrote:

The Canadian dollar is weak,

Good point. So I’d keep my dual-citizenship with the U.S..

Earn in US. Dollars. Spend in Canada.

John Woods 13 wrote:

Judging by your profile name, you don’t want to go there. They are all socialist countries (AKA, not too much freedom for you)

Haha nice reference.

I would point out that the U.S. V.A. healthcare system is one of the best in the world, and that it is 100% socialized. Same with the Medicare system that seniors join. or the Military Medical system with Tricare.

[BeeParticipant 700]

I’m in the usa. I broke my leg on a sunday in December 2012. i had a 1.5 hour operation monday and was released tuesday. I have insurance. The explanation of benefits detailed it this way:
Full price $60,000
Insurance co negotiated $12,000
Insurance paid $7,000
My out of pocket $5,000

Our family insurance coverage costs $19,000, about $7,000 paid by us and the rest by employer.

It is unsustainable when insurance costs the same as rent but you still have to pay thousands to use it. And this was only a broken leg.

Forget Canada. When I get the chance I’m going to Thailand or the Philippines.

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

Oneforfreedom wrote:

I would point out that the U.S. V.A. healthcare system is one of the best in the world, and that it is 100% socialized. Same with the Medicare system that seniors join. or the Military Medical system with Tricare.

The US VA is one of the best in the world but it’s way below the regular US health system. And lately it’s been plagued with scandals of thousands dying from lack of timely care. Also, medicare is well under water, a drag on state budgets and full of waste and abuse. So, while they are both better than other systems in other countries, they are a lot worse that the private system in the US.

Also, ambulance service is not free in Canada either, and most insurance companies will have deductibles and a spending cap, after which you can go bankrupt in Canada too if you get sick enough.

Again, I’m not supporting one or the other, I just want to clarify things that I am aware of so you make the best decision for yourself.

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

Oneforfreedom wrote:

CrazyCanuck wrote:

I have waited sometimes more than 8 hours at the emergency room, that’s partly due to the doctor shortage.

Would you rather have the American system? Where a medical emergency can bankrupt you instantly?

This is pretty cool: http://www.edwaittimes.ca/WaitTimes.aspx

Turns out, you can track which ER you’d have to wait at the longest, and plan your trip like that! Man, Canada is looking really good to me right now.

the problem was most of the time they didn’t do jack s~~~. I’m tired of doctors, unless I have physical injury I don’t bother going. My suggestion doing some good old research and take responsibility of your health instead of relying on doctors. When a doctor tells me to go to USA for medical treatment because he refuses to do his job just made me think real hard.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[BeeParticipant 700]

True words. You must take charge of your own health.

[OneforfreedomParticipant 930]

Okay guys- thank you for all of your insight. It helped a ton!

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Oneforfreedom wrote:

Well, the way I see it, if I go to an ER in the U.S., I encounter a 4-5 hr wait anyways…

Well I know from personal experience that in the western provinces at least you can add another twenty to that four to five hour wait. and that’s if the doctor that’s supposed to be on call is actually bothering to be on call. I’ve heard it’s better in the eastern provinces, which isn’t surprising given their massively disproportionate representation in parliament, but I can’t confirm that from my own experience.

Oneforfreedom wrote:

At least I know that Canada won’t bankrupt me for a medical emergency…

But you could very well die while waiting for treatment. Nothing is without risk of some form or another. Take your pick.

You have to understand that there is no such thing as “free” health care. You pay for care in Canada just like you do in the U.S., but through different channels. Except Canada also has rationed health care, which means you don’t always get the care you’ve been paying for over the past years and decades. You can wait for months in some provinces for simple tests and scans that are available on the same day in the U.S. And it’s intentionally made that way by the socialist political system up there. A while back some doctors and technicians at an MRI clinic decided to reduce the appalling months long queue they had by staying late and working overtime to offer MRIs to patients willing to pay a small fee to jump the queue after hours. This got the clinic some extra money but mostly it massively reduced the wait for the rest of the patients waiting for an MRI. It also save a few lives as critical cases like suspected cancers were able to be scanned sooner before the cancer had advanced beyond stage one or stage two.

Were the doctors applauded or rewarded for successfully reducing MRI wait times? No.

They were prosecuted.

Because socialism.

But if that’s what you want to risk your health and your life to, then by all means go for it. As to me, well I’d rather take a financial risk and get the care I need than risk my physical well being.

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