Can MGTOW man ever be close friends with a women? Is that even Possible

[mgtow_85Participant 752]

Sure a MGTOW can be good friends with a woman, but there are so few examples that would gain my trust.

Here are my examples of women that I am good friends with:

My three sisters. They are just f~~~ing awesome!!! My mom kicked two of them out long before they turned 18 because they yelled at her in a fight that they would NEVER grow up to be a bitch like her. And they sure proved themselves right.

My younger sister is happily married for 10 years, has 5 kids, and she ADORES her husband completely, loving every inch of him, and showers him with affection and love. They never even had a serious argument before, and it’s like they were a match made in heaven. Even as someone as MGTOW as I am, I do have the courage to admit that their marriage is the kind of thing that we all wish we could have, and if more women acted this way during the marriage, maybe more of us would have taken the risk of the marriage contract. Plus, my sister refuses to let our abusive mother see her 5 kids. She says she doesn’t need that kind of negative influence in the lives of her kids.

My oldest niece. 9 years old, looks just like her delightful mother, VERY intelligent, and I just love her to death. I keep her picture on my whiteboard at home as proof that angels do exist. LOL. She isn’t even spoiled or has the entitled, bratty upbringing that most parents do for their kids. She was taught to work hard, and since my sister has a collection of barnyard animals, including chickens to collect eggs from, she really does her part to tend to those animals and collect their eggs for breakfast. A very responsible young lady.

One of my coworkers, the only female on a 8-member overnight freight team that I work on for one of my jobs half the week in Retail. She is 25 years old, has no sense of snotty entitlement demands, busts her ASS the same as everyone else does, has a great sense of humor, and is clearly “one of the guys.” You can tell a story with a lot of swearing in it and she won’t even bat an eye. Hell, just last week, she was telling me a story, dropped the F-bomb, then turned red and said to me, “Sorry for swearing like that.” I grinned and said it was no problem because I work construction at my other job and I’m very used to swear words, despite my religious upbringing.

She’s a pretty awesome co-worker, but it doesn’t mean that I relax and let my guard down enough to mention anything of my MGTOW lifestyle or my personal life. She knows I’m a bachelor and never brings up anything about it, and doesn’t try to pry into my personal life. She knows I’m a movie and book collector, and she asks once a week if I have any new ones that came in the mail lately, which I’m more than willing to discuss because I’m such a movie and book nut, but besides that, she stays out of my personal business and usually is the first one to help me finish my department after hers is finished.

[CrabParticipant 7]

Keymaster wrote:

In her mind, you’re not a friend. You’re *just* a guy she’s not f~~~ing.

Amen

Though I do believe you can find a women *bro* out there… I have one, we met when we were 6, and we never considered the other one sexually at all. She’s more like my sister, so it kinda rules out any sexual urges.

[mode72Participant 25]

I would agree with most of the posts in this thread that true friendship with a woman is nearly impossible. I’ve had a couple of woman friends over the years that ended up severing the relationship when I wouldn’t play the attention game. I came to see that what they wanted was a guy there to be the boyfriend stunt double, providing the emotional support for them in between men. When I refused to do so, I became disposable. It’s nothing I ever lost any sleep about, they were casual friends and brought nothing to the table that I felt like I was missing.
There has been one exception. I met a woman i’ll call Janet in 2001 online in a chat room. She made a comment about one of my favorite musicians, so I sent her a PM, something like “That’s my favorite band”. We started chatting, quite a bit over the following days, but not once did it ever seem like a hook up situation. We met up not long after that, and aside from having some great conversations about a lot of things we had in common, there were never any sexual tensions between us. Not to say I didn’t think she was attractive, I did, but it always felt like a brother-sister relationship. Neither of us wanted anything from the relationship other than friendship, and it was very refreshing to find that in a woman.
She didn’t want anything from me other than my companionship, and to this day is the only woman who has never asked me for anything.
When I met my soon to be ex-wife, Janet called one night for some advice about a situation she was dealing with at work, and my ex flipped out. I listened to her, and tried to get a word in now and then. I understood her perspective, and I explained the nature of the relationship in detail. I suggested that we all go have dinner or something, and after getting to know Janet she would see that it was strictly platonic. Instead, the next day I received the ultimatum. “She disappears from your life, or I do” I made the phone call.
This past summer, when my ex told me to kick rocks, I did some digging and found Janet. I sent her an email, and apologized for not standing by my convictions. I had overdosed on blue pills. She emailed back “Hey, I understand. Like a lot of ignorant women out there, she made you choose. It was her, or nothing. Have you heard the new….”
It all comes down to the person. In most cases, perhaps 99.99% of them, a true friendship isn’t possible. Janet just happened to be the .01%.

[RoyDalParticipant]

I’ve had a couple of woman friends over the years that ended up severing the relationship when I wouldn’t play the attention game…

Same here. It always seems to happen sooner or later.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[niko.choskiParticipant 24]

I would say Yes. You can be a really close friend to women. I am really close to at least 4-5 girls in my circle of friends.

The friendship is one that I try to control just like a relationship. What I mean by that is that I try to control the frame and the interactions with them and show them that the way I am behaving is the completely normal of my way of behaving. Once you are important enough for them and it’s mixed with attraction as well they can’t lose you.

So in essence you become friends with them especially the ones you are close to because they are partly attracted to you and you don’t want a lot more because you were there and witnessed how they were in their relationships. My friendships are so f~~~ed up with these women to the point that I am the kind of guy that would greed them with a grab of their asses or a feel of their boobs especially the two I am really close to and they would never complain.

That’s what I realised for women a long time ago. Since my world view is that if you want to be my friend that thing is going to happen if I feel like it and they accept it. And I have no idea why they do, they are fine with it. I feel it’s because they trust and feel safe with me so they feel that the exchange is worth it……….

I am not really sure. And I think one of the main reasons that I am really close friends with them is because I am a MGTOW. They know if something was to happen sexual there is nowhere else the relationship would go. And also because I am calling them on their bulls~~~ and their actions with regards to their relationships. I provide an input to their hypergamy that even they don’t see at times. I have made them red pill aware and they understand why I don’t want relationships because of the hypergamy of women.

I actually think that a MGTOW man can be a very good friend with women. We are to them a inside to their biology. Or at least that’s how it is in my relationships. And we are talking about girls that would show up and help me and treat me if I was ill and they did that on a number of occasions and have never let me down in terms of that yet. Admittedly they are attracted to me as well, which helps, but I friendzoned them… so the relationship has reached a stability stage now that they are in good terms with it.

[niko.choskiParticipant 24]

niko.choski wrote:

I would say Yes. You can be a really close friend to women. I am really close to at least 4-5 girls in my circle of friends. The friendship is one that I try to control just like a relationship. What I mean by that is that I try to control the frame and the interactions with them and show them that the way I am behaving is the completely normal of my way of behaving. Once you are important enough for them and it’s mixed with attraction as well they can’t lose you. So in essence you become friends with them especially the ones you are close to because they are partly attracted to you and you don’t want a lot more because you were there and witnessed how they were in their relationships. My friendships are so f~~~ed up with these women to the point that I am the kind of guy that would greed them with a grab of their asses or a feel of their boobs especially the two I am really close to and they would never complain. That’s what I realised for women a long time ago. Since my world view is that if you want to be my friend that thing is going to happen if I feel like it and they accept it. And I have no idea why they do, they are fine with it. I feel it’s because they trust and feel safe with me so they feel that the exchange is worth it………. I am not really sure. And I think one of the main reasons that I am really close friends with them is because I am a MGTOW. They know if something was to happen sexual there is nowhere else the relationship would go. And also because I am calling them on their bulls~~~ and their actions with regards to their relationships. I provide an input to their hypergamy that even they don’t see at times. I have made them red pill aware and they understand why I don’t want relationships because of the hypergamy of women. I actually think that a MGTOW man can be a very good friend with women. We are to them a inside to their biology. Or at least that’s how it is in my relationships. And we are talking about girls that would show up and help me and treat me if I was ill and they did that on a number of occasions and have never let me down in terms of that yet. Admittedly they are attracted to me as well, which helps, but I friendzoned them… so the relationship has reached a stability stage now that they are in good terms with it.

 

By the way if we are talking a true friendship in the way that a man can be friends with another man. Obviously the friendship is not exactly the same. And I don’t trust women as much as I trust men. However, a friendship that works between a man and a woman is one where the woman is more attracted to the man, than the man is to her and he controls the frame in such a way to create a friendship. Which is what I talked about in my post above.

Yeh even in friendship there is game involved.

 

 

[MaskedManiacManParticipant 5]

The only girl I’m friends with is my little sister because she looks up to me and mimics my behavior. I will never get married and she is one of the only people who doesn’t bitch at me in my family. But me and my older brother were the only male role-models in her life because, fundamentalist christian single-mother households are not conducive to maturing boys. And sorry to say my brother is a simp who panders to his wife’s every desire. That being said she’ll go out of her way to talk to me even though it’s hard to reach me(no phone, facebook or other social media). I strongly distrust women and she trades gifts with me like any other sibling and that makes a small difference in the trust dynamic. Still it is not the same level as my male friends which I would die protecting but not my sister she is accountable for all her actions and I will not sacrifice myself for a woman. But, on a whole I would say men cannot be friends with women NAWALT does not exist and biology is the biggest contributor to female hypergamy. You want loyalty buy a dog, you want honesty stay alone, and if you want sex be ready to sacrifice your resources(time, money, etc.

[rts100x5Participant 7]

My #1 rule in all my dealings with women – BRUTAL F~~~ING HONESTY NO EXCEPTIONS – The first thing women try to figure out is where you are vulnerable as a man – then they set about exploiting your weaknesses.  BRUTAL HONESTY and having CONCRETE boundaries  will save you alot of wasted time and bulls~~~ scenarios…

[RoyDalParticipant]

My #1 rule in all my dealings with women – BRUTAL F~~~ING HONESTY

Works for me! The honesty trait has kept me from getting sucked into some chick’s beta orbit many times. Blunt honesty has also kept me off the A-list of a few bosses. That’s OK too. I’m living well.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[KeymasterKeymaster]

@musicman8287 GREAT POINT!

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[Vector VikingParticipant 413]

I have a grand total of 3 female friends- and I’m f~~~ing 2 of them. The third is married to one of my best friends and I’ve known her for years, so it’s more of a sibling kinda deal. She doesn’t have siblings and has told me she always wanted a big brother to do tomboy s~~~ with, so that’s the role I play in her life. When I told her that I’m having back surgery soon, her first reply was “F~~~ YES! After you heal we can go rock climbing and scuba diving together again!”

The other two I have established clear boundaries with. I’m not their therapist, I won’t be their boyfriend, I won’t pay for their anything and they are not allowed to show up unannounced. We don’t mix our friend circles and they aren’t meeting my sibs or parents. Both of them have tried to push these boundaries of course, but I stand firm and make it clear that I’m happy alone or with either of them. If they want more than what I’m prepared to offer, they can get it from someone else and I’d be happy with that too.

[In Which We ServeParticipant 111]

I think the question needs to be rephrased as ‘Can MGTOW man ever be close friends with a woman in the same way he can be with a man‘?

To that, the answer is generally no.

However, I do think it’s sometimes possible for men and women to be fairly close friends, providing:

1. There is no sexual interest between you. This is pretty rare.
2. You are friends also with her boyfriend/husband, if she has one, and that friendship is as strong if not stronger than that which you have with the woman. So in this sense you’re more of a friend with a couple than an individual.

As for non-close friends, ie, women who are more like acquaintances, I think this is perfectly possible.

[76binderParticipant 20]

I think long term close platonic friendship with a woman is possible, but not probable. Sometimes childhood friends that stay in touch for life, but that emotionally is probably more like a family tie.

I don’t think a woman can be close to a man without trying to profit from it. You can be in a good long term relationship with a woman, but not platonicly. What was said earlier is true. There’s only 2 kinds of men.

I think the secret to male/female relations is stark honesty. That’s why good one’s are so rare. We lie to ourselves, but women are better at lies than men are. Whether to themselves or others. I’m currently in a long term relationship that is working because we are both brutally honest. She can’t stand women and neither can I.  We both “use” each other. We both value independence, and we give each other a pass to be self centered about things. We are friends because we have common goals and objectives. We’re that not so we would be useless to the other. I do the heavy lifting because I’m twice her size. I cook because I like to, and she stinks at it. She buys more s~~~ because she has more disposable income, but she buys me s~~~ when she doesn’t have to. She has a smoking hot body and loves sex. I use her for money and sex and she uses me for a handyman, protection, and sex. It’s a fair exchange.  We are friends because we like what the other provides. If she stops providing on her end I can leave anytime,  and vice versa. We like it this way. To some it sounds cold and impersonal, but it isn’t. We just honestly say what we want, no judgment. I say “I really want my c~~~ sucked.” She says “I’m not in the mood, but I’m more not in the mood to do dishes, think we can work something out?” I’m perfectly free to say “No I don’t want it that bad.” or “It’s a deal.” Point is most women think I’m a jerk, most women think she’s a bitch. Most men like me, and think she’s cool as hell. We’re happy, and most people are miserable.

It’s possible to be friends, but not lovers, just exceedingly rare. You can definitely be friends and lovers, but you have to find one that has rejected the Disney bulls~~~, and can accept that we think totally different, but it doesn’t make us wrong. She gets favors for sex, I get sex for favors and I’m OK with that. No one is lying about it, or pretending it’s not about fair exchange.

Most women can’t do fair trade though, and if you think about it, why should they. Society has handed them all the pussy power. Why compromise when you can dominate? Until men de-weaponize the vagina, women will wield it against us. The only way to do that is solidarity with all men.

If we were totally honest all the time with women, and just laid out what we really want and think, after a period of anarchy I’m sure both sides would be happier. Of course this is unrealistic, gender expectations are too deeply engraved at this point. If you told your significant other the truth that for everything she won’t do in bed… there’s a bitch out there that will. You’d get slapped and dumped. Yet they use the very same logic. Why not just say “I want anal.” “OK, but afterwards I want you to listen to me drone on about my day.” We both know we’re taking one for the team, but it’s fair trade. Women are not good at compromise or fair trade as a rule. They expect the advantage in all transactions, especially so if they’re attractive. Which is the biggest reason you usually can’t be platonic friends.

 

[13-JzzalParticipant 134]

rts100x5 wrote:

My #1 rule in all my dealings with women – BRUTAL F~~~ING HONESTY NO EXCEPTIONS – The first thing women try to figure out is where you are vulnerable as a man – then they set about exploiting your weaknesses. BRUTAL HONESTY and having CONCRETE boundaries will save you alot of wasted time and bulls~~~ scenarios…

This. The only way to have femal friends in your life is if you show them from the beginning that they won’t get special treatment just because they have different genitalia. They either value your honesty even if it sometimes hurts or they leave on their own (which solves the problem IMO).

But even that is sometimes not enough. Two women I have been friends with for 3 or 4 years for some reason forgot who they were with. One of them thought it was appropriate to hit me (not in the face) over some remark I made. The other tried to get me to buy a drink for her. Both ended up gawping like fish at my responses and haven’t tried to s~~~ test me again since then. (Don’t worry I would never hit back. I don’t want to go to jail)

Anyway my point is that even though you can be friends with them they will probably have to be reminded of the boundaries from time to time. Not because they are trying to test you on purpose but because they do these thing out of habit. People tend to form bad habits if there is no one to tell them when they f~~~ up. Although keeping you down to earth is part of what friends are for anyway, so this isn’t really a big problem in my opinion as long as they actually understand they did something wrong. If someone is resistent to criticism they aren’t worth my time or yours.

[experiencedParticipant]

Answer, it’s just that Jake keeps saying, “eff her   eff her   efffhereffhereffher  ….   …   ………  effher effher effher effher effher …   …   …. effher effher effher.”  It’s just the dawg in me.    And all laydeez know that all men are like that no exceptions whatsoever anywhere : ) , and that’s the way it is.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[Anonymous 1]

I always thought that it would be possible. But after reading these posts, and some personal experiences, I would say: No.

It is like Keymaster said: How can you be friends with someone that is obsessed with themselves?

And example:

FitzBones wrote:

Girls very rarely will discuss such mental extrapolations and prefer more solid subjects such as themselves, their friends, their family or anyone else in their life.

Is this supposed to be a friendship with a woman? If so, then I pass. I don’t have patience for these kind of things. Another example, from these very posts is the relationship that Niko described with his females friends. No offense, but in the end that fits Keymaster description of “you are not their friend, you are the guy she is not f~~~ing”, and once more, this is not form me. If their only 2 priorities are themselves and sex, than, at least for me, friendship is not possible.

So no, as far as I can tell, it is not possible. Colleagues, sure, friends, no.

[GrumpyParticipant]

No

Men are only seen as a beneficial utility. She will never be a friend because of that. Once you are of no benefit to her, all ties are broken until you can provide more benefit.

Kind of like me trying to be friends with my tool box. It is there for my purposes, filled with tools I need, I keep the tools in good repair, when one no longer works I replace it. I have never met a hammer with a broken heart.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

RayBandaku wrote:

I am wondering if any one here has a close friend who is a women. Is that a bad idea for a MGTOW man. What are the danger’s of having a close women friend. The reason I am asking is as man I do meet business women and they think like men and I don’t mind talking to them. Some times I wonder Am I going too far by avoiding all women or is there exceptions. Keep in mind I am not interested in having a girl friend or have sex with her, just as friend. I am not sure which way to think about this. Any MGTOW men hang out with women as friends. Please share your views on this. Can a MGTOW man be a close friend with a women? Yes or No, why or why not. Thanks for sharing.

Apparently the Herbivores of Japan do this.  Maybe not all, but some do.  It could be possible, but I would say that the most critical part is a guy who does this is able to go his own way, and live on his own terms.  I would think a guy would have a sister he is on decent terms with.  If one feels they can’t go their own way, or live on their own terms, then then need to rethink everything if they want to go their own way.  This can go with guy friends also.  If you have this PUA guy who drags out out all the time and wants you to be a wingman, and you find this gets in your way of doing what you need to do, you can’t have him as a close friend either.

There is the When Harry Met Sally clip someone posted here, that needs to be on one’s mind also.

.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

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