Home › Forums › Political Corner › Bernie Sanders shows brilliance with tax idea. Tax stocks, bonds, derivatives.
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Beer 8 months ago.
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I’d almost like to say you’re talking crazy, but unfortunately, what’s really crazy is that much of what you’re saying is true.
Thank you.
n response to a fanatical extremist fascist globalist movement.
Open the box you are living in and look around outside at the horrors that are happening right now.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying regarding the globalist agenda. I just don’t think an opposite response is really the right answer. Isolationism isn’t going to be supportted by many, will have even more resistance, and end up causing the US just as much if not more financial suffering than it would cause.
The “New Green Deal” true goal is to literally erase all evidence the United States ever existed. Such acts to erase a people/culture are a form of genocide.
The Green New Deal will never happen. Not even the globalists really want that. The only reason they don’t fully shut it down is that the idea appeases the extreme left crowd who have no idea what the actual agenda is.
Ok. Then do it.
The Green New Deal will never happen. Not even the globalists really want that.
The globalists are the one’s whom back the New Green Deal. The New Green Deal is a logical follow-up to the globalist controlled EPA, which is designed to destroy U.S. industry so globalists can have their cartels and monopolies.
Faust: Again, MOST means OVER 50%.
Foreigners own about 35% of US equities.
So what? If I look at UK stock ownership, over half is owned by foreigners. https://www.businessinsider.com/ons-charts-uk-stock-market-ownership-2015-9 We live in an interconnected, international economy with multinational corporations.
What does foreign capital infusion MEAN? Same as any capital infusion. MORE MONEY to GROW DOMESTIC BUSINESSES. So that is a GOOD THING! It also means investors around the world consider the US *relatively* healthy to invest in compared to other countries, also a vote of CONFIDENCE! It takes capital to build a factory, a store, pay vendors, inventory, wages, etc. Where do you think that money comes from? Does it matter if it came from a Greek or Chinese investor, or is that dirty money, better those jobs not be created and those factories not built?
That is another part of the problem. There needs to be border walls, immigration roundups, and high import tariffs.
You would have enjoyed living in the Depression era. What do you think will happen to our EXPORTS when our trading partners retaliate with their own tariffs? It potentially makes the Great Recession look tame. I’m all for fairer trade deals, but the tariffs are a dangerous negotiating tactic.
Faust: Again, MOST means OVER 50%.
Foreigners own about 35% of US equities.
So what? If I look at UK stock ownership, over half is owned by foreigners. https://www.businessinsider.com/ons-charts-uk-stock-market-ownership-2015-9 We live in an interconnected, international economy with multinational corporations.
What does foreign capital infusion MEAN? Same as any capital infusion. MORE MONEY to GROW DOMESTIC BUSINESSES. So that is a GOOD THING! It also means investors around the world consider the US *relatively* healthy to invest in compared to other countries, also a vote of CONFIDENCE! It takes capital to build a factory, a store, pay vendors, inventory, wages, etc. Where do you think that money comes from? Does it matter if it came from a Greek or Chinese investor, or is that dirty money, better those jobs not be created and those factories not built?
That is another part of the problem. There needs to be border walls, immigration roundups, and high import tariffs.
You would have enjoyed living in the Depression era. What do you think will happen to our EXPORTS when our trading partners retaliate with their own tariffs? It potentially makes the Great Recession look tame. I’m all for fairer trade deals, but the tariffs are a dangerous negotiating tactic.
Foreigners own about 35% of US equities.
That is on paper. The question is how many “U.S. Companies” are foreign owned shell companies.
You would have enjoyed living in the Depression era.
The Depression Era was caused by foreign companies being allowed to buy stocks across the world, including the U.S., on credit.
Also, to point out, for decades foreign companies have been lobbying politicians to create more regulations and laws design to cripple, exploit, and destroy U.S. businesses and wealth.
Why do you think the globalists are going crazy over President Trump election win. Look at economic reports, such as on Zerohedge. Global stocks are tanking because the foreign companies, and some foreign governments, were living off of wealth from taken from the U.S. population. Though, that wealth transfer has been slowed, not stopped.
Faust: Precisely what do you mean by wealth ‘transfer’ out of the US?
Wealth on an individual basis is just accumulation of assets. Most people are not savers. Thus, they do not accumulate significant wealth.
You will typically see a very different attitude towards spending other people’s money, from those who save and invest, like Beer and me for instance, versus those who do not.
Wealth is built through discipline, hard work, and planning typically.
The US has trade deficits because we import more than we export. Is that what you mean by wealth transfer? The deficits are certainly not ‘wealth transfer’, but of course, are larger than they have ever been before.
If you want lower trade deficits, you must make your businesses more competitive. You do that through low taxes and minimal regulation. That makes your exports cheaper. Tariffs, in contrast, just make citizens pay more for domestic goods. And shield domestic producers from competition. Certainly foreign import cars improved American automaker quality.
In general, companies lobby simply to promote their interests. Most of that is domestic. They may want a special carve out, guaranteed government contracts, etc. they usually lobby for less regulation, but not always. For instance, if they are trying to prevent new entrants into a market, and they are large, they may actually want regulations to dissuade smaller firms from entering a market.
The Depression had many causes, the stock market crash and low margin ratio of 10% (relative to today’s 50%], contributed, but were not central in my opinion. The tariffs were central.
I will agree there have been fewer new regulations promulgated under the Trump regime than the Obamination regime. And that is a good change. But spending went up, even when Republicans controlled Congress and Presidency before mid-term elections.
Precisely what do you mean by wealth ‘transfer’ out of the US?
You actually asked this.
Let’s start with all the U.S. tax revenue in the form of “foreign aid” that are sent to the political leaders of other nations to play nice with each other. Then, there is the “free trade” which ships jobs overseas to product inferior products that undercut the prices of domestic production and businesses. Then, there are the tax bailouts to foreign banks and businesses, this devalued the U.S. dollar several times over. Then, there are the loan industry, which U.S. mortgages other loans bundled together and sold on foreign markets to the point a title search on some U.S. property is a nightmare. Then, there are foreign nations allowed to manipulate their currency against the U.S. currency. Then, there are the regulations, laws, and taxes that only apply to U.S. citizens and U.S. business, but foreign companies that do business in the U.S. are exempt from which gives foreign companies a unfair advantage on top of everything else listed here.
The level of bribes, kickbacks, and insider trading information that U.S. politicians receive in exchange for colluding with foreign groups and nations to do this listed above is staggering.
All of these topics lists lead to wealth held by the U.S. population be transferred to foreign groups and foreign governments.
Faust: I am against all that ‘foreign aid’, as you probably are too. But at the same time, this so-called ‘non-security aid’ or foreign aid, comprises only 1% of federal spending. The so-called ‘security’ spending over the last 20 years, That is, Iraq and Afghanistan wars, etc, in contrast, has cost more than a dozen times the foreign aid. I am against it too. I would not consider it a wealth transfer to foreign powers, so much as a colossal waste. What if all those troops and defense industry workers produced peacetime goods and services? We would be more prosperous. But this spending on troop pay, equipment, munitions, drones, etc, has not enriched these countries. Sure, Blackwater and our defense contractors prospered. But even the pallets of cash (bribes) wasted, were paltry in terms of total fed gov spending.
Trade is not a zero sum game. And not everything made overseas, is inferior. I would rather buy German or Japanese machinery from several companies, than machinery from most any other countries. Which automakers produce the most reliable vehicles? Recalls and maintenance costs are good objective measures.
What regulations are foreign companies doing business in the US exempt from? I work in manufacturing. Whether a company is owned by a UK parent, Japanese form, etc, it still has to comply with EPA, OSHA, and the rest of it at its US locations.
In the case of the post 2008 crisis bailouts, most went to Fannie, Freddie, and AIG. Now AIG, paid billions in debt it owed to foreign banks such as Societe Generale and Deutsch Bank. So the bailout did indirectly include foreign entities to that extent, though still a small fraction of total bailout dollars. Is this what you are referring to?
I don’t really care what investors, domestic or foreign, want to run S & L banks. Again, I see foreign capital infusion into the US economy as GOOD.
The US dollar is most devalued by deficit spending, low rates of economic growth, and not being convertible to gold, all of which are interrelated. Since most spending is on entitlement programs such as social security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and defense, these categories comprise the bulk of federal spending.
‘Free trade’ does not necessarily ship jobs anywhere. If Honda is more efficient at producing reliable autos and Boeing more efficient at producing passenger jet aircraft, both trading partners can benefit. I would agree China is not a free trader in regards to IP, currency manipulation, etc.
By this thinking, let’s say I wanted to keep all the money in the State I live in. The politicians prohibit trading with other States. Well, suddenly some products become a lot more expensive and others I can’t get. Free trade maximizes purchasing power and economic efficiency. But it also has resulted in lower wages for unskilled labor.
‘Free trade’ does not necessarily ship jobs anywhere. If Honda is more efficient at producing reliable autos and Boeing more efficient at producing passenger jet aircraft, both trading partners can benefit. I would agree China is not a free trader in regards to IP, currency manipulation, etc.
You mentioned that tariffs is a dangerous negotiation tactic, and I agree. What other way would there be to negotiate? I think it’s clear that Trump doesn’t really want tariffs on either side and is only ramping up tariffs to convince China and others to drop them entirely.
On a broader sense, what really is free trade anyway? Put a different way, what factors interrupt true free trade. Tariffs is the obvious one, but I’d argue that regulations are as well. If a company in the US has to spend money to comply with US regulations, including things like minimum wage laws, while a company in China does not, does that interrupt free trade? I feel that it does. What about the difference in cost of living between the US and China locations? Does that interrupt free trade? I don’t feel that it does, as the trade tends to raise the cost of living in the poorer country and level things out. What about economic sanctions? What about differences in natural resources? differences in existing infrastructure?
You could argue that the market is never really fair, and government attempt to make it fair rarely make it better. And there are countries like China who intentionally make it unfair whenever possible. I’d say China does have and advantage in the sense that thier government and business are one in the same, while the US and it’s business are different entities. The US government will do things that intentionally hurt it’s business in favor of it’s own power, while China would never do that, since it’s one in the same. Where the US has advantage are that it’s workers are theoretically more motivated as success benefits themselves as well as their country, while China is on where near that.
Overall, I don’t really have a problem with a global economy. The issue with globalism I have is global governance, which results our government taking steps (or not taking steps) to ensure a fair market for it’s people. Global governance is the direct result of elites grabbing control and power they have not earned while the enlist the support of those who blindly power isn’t earned, but must be stolen and redistributed to those who have not earned it.
Ok. Then do it.
Faust: I am against all that ‘foreign aid’, as you probably are too.
Good.
Trade is not a zero sum game.
You mistake is assuming that trade will always be against the U.S.’s favor. That can be changed.
What regulations are foreign companies doing business in the US exempt from? I work in manufacturing. Whether a company is owned by a UK parent, Japanese form, etc, it still has to comply with EPA, OSHA, and the rest of it at its US locations.
Presidents and the regulatory bodies themselves give exemptions to various foreign companies and foreign governments.
Also, foreign nations do not have such regulation on their production, which give them an unjust advantage in overhead costs for production. Apply tariffs to imports from these countries is the only real move that the U.S. can do to matter, beside rescinding those laws and regulations.
Also, on a side note, while foreign nations push more regulations and destructive laws to be passed in the U.S., it should be noted that China and India are some of the worst polluters on Earth. The environmental groups in the U.S. will not say a word on this matter because China are part of the foreign groups whom fund the environmental groups in the U.S.
In addition, over the list I previous made above, here are two more for the list. Governments give subsidies to companies to allow those companies to said their products below market value. Also, millions of foreigners whom work in the U.S. (both legal and illegal) sent billions of U.S. dollars a year out of the U.S.
Let’s start with all the U.S. tax revenue in the form of “foreign aid” that are sent to the political leaders of other nations to play nice with each other. Then, there is the “free trade” which ships jobs overseas to product inferior products that undercut the prices of domestic production and businesses. Then, there are the tax bailouts to foreign banks and businesses, this devalued the U.S. dollar several times over. Then, there are the loan industry, which U.S. mortgages other loans bundled together and sold on foreign markets to the point a title search on some U.S. property is a nightmare. Then, there are foreign nations allowed to manipulate their currency against the U.S. currency. Then, there are the regulations, laws, and taxes that only apply to U.S. citizens and U.S. business, but foreign companies that do business in the U.S. are exempt from which gives foreign companies a unfair advantage on top of everything else listed here.The level of bribes, kickbacks, and insider trading information that U.S. politicians receive in exchange for colluding with foreign groups and nations to do this listed above is staggering.All of these topics lists lead to wealth held by the U.S. population be transferred to foreign groups and foreign governments.
excellent post, man. There’s the truth. The rich have written the laws to favor themselves while the average American gets f~~~ed in the ass.
Don’t forget that today’s gorilla corporations are mostly multi national. They are no longer American companies but with many subsidiaries in foreign nations where they get to hide their assets. These is the crux of the problem and Americans need to realize this.
God bless peace and freedom.
Let’s start with all the U.S. tax revenue in the form of “foreign aid” that are sent to the political leaders of other nations to play nice with each other. Then, there is the “free trade” which ships jobs overseas to product inferior products that undercut the prices of domestic production and businesses. Then, there are the tax bailouts to foreign banks and businesses, this devalued the U.S. dollar several times over. Then, there are the loan industry, which U.S. mortgages other loans bundled together and sold on foreign markets to the point a title search on some U.S. property is a nightmare. Then, there are foreign nations allowed to manipulate their currency against the U.S. currency. Then, there are the regulations, laws, and taxes that only apply to U.S. citizens and U.S. business, but foreign companies that do business in the U.S. are exempt from which gives foreign companies a unfair advantage on top of everything else listed here.The level of bribes, kickbacks, and insider trading information that U.S. politicians receive in exchange for colluding with foreign groups and nations to do this listed above is staggering.All of these topics lists lead to wealth held by the U.S. population be transferred to foreign groups and foreign governments.
excellent post, man. There’s the truth. The rich have written the laws to favor themselves while the average American gets f~~~ed in the ass.
Don’t forget that today’s gorilla corporations are mostly multi national. They are no longer American companies but with many subsidiaries in foreign nations where they get to hide their assets. These is the crux of the problem and Americans need to realize this.ummm,…no. Anyone can use the system to hide assets and keep taxes at a smaller level. It is just a lot do not take the time to figure out the ins and outs to save a few bucks,….in the case of larger share holders it is millions of dollars. So the incentive is greater.
Don’t blame the system especially if you are not willing to use it.mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/
Narwhal: I agree — that’s the rub — there really isn’t ANY OTHER way to negotiate. But I am skeptical that ‘Trade wars are good, and easy to win’.
The trade issues with China relate more to non-tariff barriers in my mind — IP, fixing currency, subsidies, etc. But lowering tariffs on both sides and having true free trade, is a good start. Once China was given permanent normalized trade relations status (PNTR), we lost significant negotiating power.
The market is never really ‘fair’. Different countries have different competitive advantages. Less developed countries have cheap labor, but often terrible infrastructure. More developed countries have reasonably good infrastructure and more skilled labor. But high regulation and taxes typically.
I also dislike global governance; it is good to have governments compete for citizens (to shake down for tax dollars).
I approved wholeheartedly when Trump withdrew from the Paris Agreement to put a cap (bullet) in the US economy and trade us away to our competitors (that is what I call ‘cap and trade’ on carbon emissions).
Presidents and the regulatory bodies themselves give exemptions to various foreign companies and foreign governments.
What companies, operating in the US, are exempt from what specific regulations? I know of no such EPA, OSHA, or other significant regulations which foreign-owned companies operating in the US are exempt from.
Also, foreign nations do not have such regulation on their production, which give them an unjust advantage in overhead costs for production. Apply tariffs to imports from these countries is the only real move that the U.S. can do to matter, beside rescinding those laws and regulations.
OR we could LOWER our taxes and government spending, so as to be more competitive. But this I will agree with; many coal-fired power plants have no scrubbers in China, for instance. But many countries will have an ‘unjust’ advantage; some have vast natural resources, great rivers providing hydroelectric power at almost no cost, etc.
Also, on a side note, while foreign nations push more regulations and destructive laws to be passed in the U.S., it should be noted that China and India are some of the worst polluters on Earth. The environmental groups in the U.S. will not say a word on this matter because China are part of the foreign groups whom fund the environmental groups in the U.S.
But is China or Europe pushing, say, greenhouse gas restrictions? It is the rich world that pushes for more environmental controls. California does not have its own special unique formulation of gasoline because of foreign lobbyists, any more than foreign lobbyists caused the government to promulgate laws creating Federal agencies such as the EPA and OSHA.
And as China becomes richer, its people will demand more environmental controls — especially on coal-fired power plant emissions, but also automobile emissions. And I’m not talking carbon dioxide, but ‘real’ pollution — NOX, SOX, and particulate matter. That is the usual trend, it’s how it went in the US and other countries.
In addition, over the list I previous made above, here are two more for the list. Governments give subsidies to companies to allow those companies to said their products below market value. Also, millions of foreigners whom work in the U.S. (both legal and illegal) sent billions of U.S. dollars a year out of the U.S.
I tend to favor free migration of people. Even working in the US, workers must spend money on food, housing, insurance, etc. All these employees are paid in dollars. So ultimately the money must be spent by foreigners they send their paychecks to, on US goods and services OR invested in the US economy. Even if they convert it to local currency, then the entity they exchanged money with STILL has to either spend it on US goods and services, or invest in the US economy.
In other words, the cumulative trade deficit results in increased foreign ownership in the US equity market and in US real estate. This is governed primarily by individual choices; for instance, individuals want to buy $10 jeans made in developing countries rather than $60 jeans made in the US, based upon a combination of price and quality.
excellent post, man. There’s the truth. The rich have written the laws to favor themselves while the average American gets f~~~ed in the ass.
Thank you.
Don’t blame the system especially if you are not willing to use it.
You miss the point. The foreign governments and foreign groups are moving vast amounts of wealth from the U.S. population. When the U.S. population is left with literally only their “guns and bibles to cling to” they are not going to roll over and die for the glory of the globalists.
The system is so rigged that it is obvious.
When corruption becomes so open that only obvious liars deny such facts the next response will be the lose of legitimacy of those in authority by the people whom are being exploited, and that leads to the collapse for the respect of the law and civil disorder on a massive scale.
The trade issues with China relate more to non-tariff barriers in my mind — IP, fixing currency, subsidies, etc. But lowering tariffs on both sides and having true free trade, is a good start. Once China was given permanent normalized trade relations status (PNTR), we lost significant negotiating power.
It has come out in the last few weeks that China has refused to do what they agreed to do with the Trump Administration on trade. That is what has created this current mess.
Reading between the lines hints that China government considers any compromise with the U.S. on trade to be an act of “losing face”.
What companies, operating in the US, are exempt from what specific regulations? I know of no such EPA, OSHA, or other significant regulations which foreign-owned companies operating in the US are exempt from.
For example, companies exempt from Obamacare under the Obama Administration, a lot of democrat funding domestic companies on the list, but a number of foreign companies as well: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2900475/posts
OR we could LOWER our taxes and government spending, so as to be more competitive.
If you noticed that politicians that have stopped from doing this have foreign ties and investments that would be hurt by lower U.S. taxation and getting rid of regulations on U.S. citizens and businesses.
It is like a fixing a boxing match. You can never always accurately predict the winner, but you can insure whom the loser will be. The foreign governments, foreign companies, and their domestic allies have crippled the U.S. with taxes and regulations that insures the U.S. are the losers on the international economy stage.
California does not have its own special unique formulation of gasoline because of foreign lobbyists, any more than foreign lobbyists caused the government to promulgate laws creating Federal agencies such as the EPA and OSHA.
Funny you mention that. The Trump Administration has talked about streamlining the gasoline across the nation, this would decrease gas prices in the U.S. In response, the California government has threatened to ban gas powered cars: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-20/california-threatens-gasoline-car-ban
It is never about the enviroment. It is about harming the U.S. population.
I tend to favor free migration of people.
If you noticed, the globalists push native governments to deny rights to their citizens and given special protections to foreign immigrants.
Don’t blame the system especially if you are not willing to use it.
You miss the point. The foreign governments and foreign groups are moving vast amounts of wealth from the U.S. population. When the U.S. population is left with literally only their “guns and bibles to cling to” they are not going to roll over and die for the glory of the globalists.
The system is so rigged that it is obvious.
When corruption becomes so open that only obvious liars deny such facts the next response will be the lose of legitimacy of those in authority by the people whom are being exploited, and that leads to the collapse for the respect of the law and civil disorder on a massive scale.I am not sure how much vast amounts of wealth are moved out of the US system when the over all economy is doing so well. Globalist have been getting a beat down all around the world as political systems have started reset to a nationalist pov. Now the US system is set up for anyone,…anyone to come in and buy a vast amount of natural resources and move it out of the US system to aid in their own economy. Locally China is buying mineral rights………so here is the BUT for all the locals,…The big companies like Haliburton and Baker Hughes get the off shore and big land owners. Leaving all kinds of drilling and transport to small companies.
I know this is not the exact point you are making. I added in local events/situations to make it more personal.Mostly the US economy is not a single some gain. Joe makes 100 dollars dose not mean I do not. The most wealthy make a hell of a lot of money when the system is working,……great find dandy,…..it also mean that simple Sam working his 9 to 5 is also making coin.
Can a multi national pull out fast amounts of wealth, sure. Not before making a hell of a lot of other people rich along the way insuring the flow of cash among the general population is in easy access. Add in most of the big money wants to live here simpelly because of the legal system makes sure that the economy to a given point keeps going.
Now we have to look at Mr. Trump and some of the legal changes he has made to the system to make sure money stay here.mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/
I am not sure how much vast amounts of wealth are moved out of the US system when the over all economy is doing so well.
No. It is not. Right now the economy at the market level is running on happy thoughts, in that the expectations of good things happening are on the rise, but much of that expectation has yet to materialize. While industry is coming back it is at trickle and much of the rest of the word is boycotting our farms and other industries for daring to put the U.S. first over them.
Also, the amount of wealth being lost is not just wealth on hand, but future earnings stolen through loans forced on the U.S. populations to make ends meet today. This is like being so poor as to burn the furniture to stay warm. This is seen in the college debts, that the globalists had made by law not to be able to discharge by the courts. These colleges debts have upset the home and auto loan industries.
Loans create the need for loans because loans are an inflationary factor on prices in the market place.
After 20 plus years buying and selling stocks. Making every possible mistake along the way, I have a general feel about the economy. Short term dips and spikes over news is a waste of time to chase unless you have all kinds of money in day trading. If I am to take your pov then everything Trump is doing is a mistake, which is wrong. Not only is is building in short term gains it in reality if the next president dose not change it builds in massive gains in the long run.
Being as part of my income is from raising steers i will address the farming issue. Like other forms of news the farm reports are heavy with hard core leftist. As you guessed all hate Trump. So the alarm bells ring loud and often. Filtering through the noise to get the few facts relevant is often difficult. Boil it down to this, Just because China is not buying a few ship loads of beans dose not change the fact that the same beans are not going to get sold. China goes to Brazil buys the beans, now all the buyers that once got beans in Brazil have to fill orders and guess where they go looking,…..
The media tries to make everything look like a zero sum gain system. We don’t sell the beans to China so now the beans are going to rot in the back lot at the shipping terminal.
It is a media trick telling people That rich CEO is taking all of your money. With out talking to the employed who make a very nice income and are happy to work for the company. Of course there are some exceptions to the rule. The media is going to push the panic and hate as much as possible, all of them hate the fact Trump won.
As far as college loans, if you are idiot enough to take out that loan then you totally need to suffer the consequences to pay that thing back. I have ZERO tolerance for people who want out from under that burden, man up/woman up and grow up.
mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/
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