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zacf 3 years, 4 months ago.
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What about when fascist claim they’re for free trade, but it’s a lie, and they also won’t admit any problems,with fiat currency?
You live in a fantasy world of your own terms that don’t represent reality. Slightly intelligent people often fall into that.
The source of all your confusion stems from not knowing the systems you are trying to criticize.
Fascism is a rejection of free trade as I defined. You cant be free if you are directed and made through state directives to change your business to build tanks instead of cars. So during a war setting, it may make sense to have fascism views in the market. Especially in desperate times.
Fiat currency is a form of currency that does not have the backing of commodity or real money. The most popular fiat currency is fiat backed by the state.
(fun fact, it almost universally fails. The only reason our current fiat lasted is because it was marginally backed by oil and corporatism also forced nations to use FRN’s exclusively in trade.)
Money is an agreed upon medium of trade such as gold, silver, copper, or another easily traded commodity.A bank note is a certificate redeemable upon presentation of the bank in return for money or currency.
All this is important. You can say “gaw… I hate damn communist! Why do we even need private property anyway?! Blasted commies!”
It sounds retarded… but its the lack of understanding what you are arguing against and for.
Anyway I gotta go bleed the block. Be back later. I’m not done with you.
Same. I’m in an out. I post when I can.
So we agree, man. You, like most libertarians, just like to pretend that business is still on the up an up despite the horrific totalitarian power imbalance of fiat currency and fractional reserve banking.
And by the way, just to clarify, I actually asked you WHY fractional reserve banking is bad/a problem. Not what it is, and how to fix it.
I asked, what specifically does fractional reserve banking do to the economy local or national. When a bank/s puts more on its ledger than it can account for, what does it generally do to the market/s at the level we see it now.
The Kurds in Syria who are fighting and beating ISIS and other Al Quieda groups have a political philosophy similar and inspired by anarchism .They call it Rojava.Also the southern Mexican Indian tribes who revolted against Mexico about 15 years ago.Chiapas is the name of the place.Comandante Marcos was the name of their leader.
If you want to learn about the Kurds government look up Constitution of Rojava. The thing about their politics that leaves a stench in my nose is that it is also laced with some feminism and Marxism.
But one thing I do like is that about 50% of their soldiers are women and they die at about the same rate as the men so little to no favoritism.frankly my dear i don't give a damn
Power corrupts weather it’s government power or corporate power or religious authority.
That’s the reason the US constitution was written the way it was with separation of powers and the reason we have anti trust laws.But all too often constitution and laws fail.
Women love proxy power. They prefer to have plausible deniability.
They want to be able to say “I didn’t to that f~~~ed up s~~~ he did or he made me do it, it I’m just a victim.”
Hypergamy and Hybristophilia.frankly my dear i don't give a damn
Libertarianism, Capitalism, and following the Constitution are what made America the greatest nation in the world before it’s decline. This is an established fact.
It’s also a fact that now skewed and elitist versions of these are destroying it.
What’s destroying it is government.
Ronn Paul explained the difference between capitalism and corporatism. .
frankly my dear i don't give a damn
You still didn’t answer my question. What specifically does fractional reserve banking do to the economy. Why or how does it specifically create problems.
You seem to mostly disagree with how I have defined libertarianism.
Because you CLEARLY don’t understand what libertarian is. It is a philosophy.
-If a libertarian generally agrees that people have the right to bear arms, how is that concept an economic concept? It isn’t. Therefore you are wrong.
-If libertarians general view is that individuals’ private lives are not the business of the state, how does that equate with economics? It doesn’t. Therefore you are wrong.
-If a libertarian also decides that states are republics and the republics of each state make up a federation, how is that economics? It isn’t. Therefore you are wrong.
-Yet, the same concept applies to libertarians generally desire sound/honest money. Why do libertarians generally think this way? Because they may follow the Austrian school of economics, reject the idea of government in private business, or at least respect the Constitutional outline for use of money.
LIBERTARIANISM IS A PHILOSOPHY OF SELF GOVERNANCE. Whatever you have been ranting about doesn’t make any sense to anyone. That’s why I just laughed you off initially.
And fascism uses trade. There is no actual free trade in existence. All rules for trade are primarily dictated through politics, war. These ultimately rely on the power exercised through the government’s that charter the corporations. All business is ultimately fascism when conducted under any corporate charter. This is just our reality.
I just said that. Read my definition of fascism again. You can be forced to trade such as socialism, fascism, marxism. Or you can free trade in a laissez faire, or anarchist society (Though anarchist has no security enforcement by the state).
Business and governments are all inexorably linked in a monolithic power structure. The main trick of our modern political zeitgeist is convincing people that these are forces which actually oppose each other.
So big boss likes to be preachy and condescending like a tool box, even though he’s quite an uninteresting bore.
And tho, low and behold, thus spoke the Biggest of Bosses. Praise be to him, and of of thee his children. May thee all pass the 7.62, and bathe in 5.56 ammunition. Praaaaaise bee… Kiiiillll~ theeeee…..
Which is why I’m always so perplexed when alleged libertarians cannot identify it. In fact, they seem to be mostly intent on defending the status quo fascism as if it’s some kind of free system. And they make snide condescending remarks about those who are honest about it. De facto corporatist shills.
Dude either these libertarians aren’t really libertarians, OR another likely reason I’m seeing. Is you are bad at communicating and listening. They may not even disagree with you, but are rather horrified or more concerned with your solutions. “The road to hell” and all that.
Ron Paul is the gold standard of libertarian thinking.
Libertarians say they are for freedom, free trade and the constitution, but what they actually do is support an unconstitutional money system, and pretend that corporatism is free trade. It’s really simple big boss.
Fascist sellouts.
Do you agree that there are problems with fractional reserve lending? I’m not jumping through your hoops of tedium just to satisfy your apparent need to be a pompous jackass.
No they are not. In fact, so egregious is your claim you are going to have to offer names, links, or references to these so called “libertarians” who are champions of fiat. You have to know, this basis is so bad it almost invalidates most of your other arguments as it makes it hard to swallow. If you are going to use examples like sean hannity, or glen beck those are co-opt agents trying to pander to tea party groups. Nor Bill Maher who claims at times to be libertarian when he wants to.
Also since you don’t understand why fractional reserve banking is bad, I will explain since it is clear I understand economics more. Not just in definition but in theory as well.
Fractional reserve banking expands credit and encourages large levels of mal-investments. It also encourages OTHER banks to expand their balance sheet with fractional reserve banking to compete. Then you have various industries tied to over saturation which then later results in massive collapse and the banks unable to return reserve monies to its customers because of the larger ratio of debts it accrued.
What road to hell solutions have I offered?
I was trying to figure out WHY you are running into these so called libertarian contradictions. My guess is your solutions you pose these types of “libertarians” make them say “hold on we can’t ban corporations” or something. I’m curious myself. Thus, refer me to these “libertarians”.
Are you a libertarian big boss?
Does corporatism accurately describe our current system?
Let’s see if big boss is a libertarian who is capable of identifying corporatism.
I am libertarian and in economics I personally adhere to austrian economic theory. Again, I find government involvement tends to create more problems than it fixes since elected officials are not able to understand the complexities of our market. I also support sound/honest money for regulatory purposes in the market.
The US is currently a corporatist socialist oligarchy.
It is run by elite oligarchs such as Bill Gates with common core; it is not a free market and is socialist in redistribution of welfare; and corporations are the primary conduits of both legislation and elected officials.
Corporatism and fascism are interchangeable terms.
Globalists (including libertarians) are generally only able to identify fascism if the system is trying to improve the lives of it citizens. Fascism that calls itself free trade and sends jobs overseas and gluts the domestic labor pool with lax immigration policies, making the citizens lives worse, is generally given a pass by these deep thinkers, and is allowed to parade itself as free trade by these corporatist globalists. Libertarians are the most brainwashed of all.
No corporatism and fascism are not interchangeable terms. A fascist nation tends to be military dictatorship in its functions. Leaders tend to derive from the military structure. Think Hitler. He was not corporate owned. He dictated TO corporations. Not the other way around.
Corporatism is as I described above, leaders are primarily selected through corporations desire.
Globalist are not libertarians. You have NO clue how ridiculous you sound. Globalist equates or helps define these types of views: Interventionist, one world government supporters, destruction of self governance, and supporters who want the erosion/minimization of national governance.
Who the hell are these libertarians? Seriously?
Why this thread is not in Political forums ?
PS.internationalist fascism and the hegemony of the western military industrial complex,which is literally raping the world, and the citizens of their own home societies.
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Yes big boss, corporatism and fascism are interchangeable terms. They are both a fusion of government and corporations, military industrial complexes. Who’s controlling whom is a matter of debate, and very fuzzy. Hitler was a puppet of Swiss bankers.
Libertarians make false distinctions about fascism and corporatism, to make their globalist version seem better.
Well, it IS arguable that all banks and central banks are the real rulers and had even made Hitler a puppet. It is known that central banks were the cause of most international malaise of the 19th and 20th century in regards to war.
That doesn’t define fascism however. Caesar had a fascist dictatorship. Sparta had a fascist monarchy.
What you are doing is using the wrong definition to define a concept you don’t fully understand. Just like women say “feminist means equality” when that definition is already defined as “egalitarianism”.
Again, WHO are these libertarians you speak of?
As they say “Citation needed”.
All libertarians I have interacted with personally are globalists.
They espouse open borders open immigration, no tariffs, etc, are terrified of the protectionism bogeyman, and are for the minimization of government. If it walks like a globalist, and talks like a globalist, it’s a globalist.
I agree open borders co-opted libertarian thinking successfully. I haven’t run into many libertarians like that myself since I live on the boarder. But many libertarians simply need to understand the function of the state is to secure the borders of the US.
Tariffs to a degree are fine in my view. Even though I am Austrian economics and for free trade, I personally view international trade comes with two nations that have completely different self interests. I want free trade in our borders and our territories.
Large government poses a lot more problems than you may realize. Its largess will sucks national wealth from the nation. Do you know how to create wealth? If you did, you would understand that large government is predatory on a nation’s wealth.
No. I’m saying when government and corporate power is merged, who’s controlling whom is a moot point.
That is corporatism.
This is what I meant that you are confusing systems. Your term of fascist can’t be applied to describe the systems it was meant to define.
Be anti-corporatist. Be anti-oligarch. Be anti-central bank. Promote sound money to sap the manipulation of banks on money and currency.
I have even heard arguments from people who want to be nationalist/fascist as a method to root out banker and corporate control.
I think corporate takeover of all policies to maximize corporate profit and destroy the middle class is more harmful than “entitlement spending”.
I agree corporate takeover is the most dangerous thing and THEE priority.
However, a bad idea is a bad idea. Especially since large government:
1. Warps the market and creates corporatism because companies can produce goods and governments can not. Thus they enter into agreements which may encourage cronyism. (Weren’t you just complaining about that?)
2. Large governments requires larger tax revenues and encourage wealth creators to become more global and less susceptible to tax laws. (weren’t you just complaining about globalism?)
3. Requires more liquidity and encourages fiat currency from global/international spending.
Or it’s also called fascism.
Ok then we on MGTOW can call Sparta a corporatist monarchy thanks to you.
Big boss thinks only nationalist corporatism is fascism. But internationalist corporatism (globalist false free trade) is also fascism. It’s internationalist fascism, or internationalist corporatism if you prefer.
Corporations don’t care about the health of the state if they are international entities. They care only about the profits of the corporation.
That’s why no one really calls anything nationalist corporatism. The rest of the stuff you said is also nonsensical
non sequitur
Now your using the wrong definition for non-sequitur.
Large government doesn’t produce goods, it provides services.
Businesses create goods. Only their ability to function in a market allows them to respond to pricing and market changes abruptly.Large government also doesn’t pay for itself. It takes from taxes which comes from profits of citizens and businesses.
Large government also can’t move massive levels of money immediately from central locations to subsidiaries. Thus it uses credit, and currency notes. When government spending is large enough such as after Vietnam, it can no longer spend within its means and must circumvent the constrains provided by honest money and goods.
Your the winner of what? You have been so horrendously and hilariously wrong in so much of your terminology and thought process that most of this conversation has been essentially me correcting you through terms with you whining about libertarianism as if it was an view of oligarchy thinking. Quite the contrary.
Open boarders is only one aspect and its the only one I have seen because leftist try to make it seem like libertarians are all isolationist or anti-immigrant and libertarians until Trump have been to cautious and beat around the bush. They were too busy trying to convert instead of being honest.
Most of the time those libertiarns used to pass off that it isn’t that people are anti-immigrant or anti-immigration (like Trump) but that it is a issue of economic malaise of the US and third world countries. Now much of libertarians are going to way of Stephen Molyeneux now that Trump has shown it is nationally popular. In fact, your accusation may be a few years old.
Further, not all libertarians share open boarder views such as Stephen Molyneux for instance or myself. Many view it as one of the fundamental functions of the government being to PROVIDE border security. Most of the time the “open borders” view has been an attempt at co-opting like the tea party. Because libertarian views are dangerous to the elite.
Government creates goods too. Ever heard of government cheese? Duh.
lol… wow. The government didn’t make the cheese… lol. Goddamn your something stupid son. The “government cheese” takes its name because it is provided for welfare. They partner with dairy farmers and cheese making companies to create it and the government distributes it to welfare recepients. They don’t actually have a dairy farm somewhere called “Gubment cheese factory” . Do you think government cereal cheerios is government made too? lol
Honest question… how old are you?
yet they are all dubious
Care to show how?
Yes they do care. The state protects their property, enforces pro corporate laws of all kinds, clubs down citizens who try to protest, makes sure borders stay open to glut the labor pool, creates special visas to import labor to undercut well paid Americans etc.
All corporatism. This is the common theme I see from socialist. They recognize the problem like most, they see the oligarchs, they see the improper distributions of wealth, none of you just can’t figure out how to fix it.
I won the discussion. You seemed to believe globalist libertarians didn’t exist. then you admitted they did.
the rest of what you’ve done is just trifled with terminology, only revealing your own inability to see actual reality through your haze of false distinctions.
You didn’t win anything. This is what you are doing:
Your accusing an entire philosophy based around the principles of the founding of America derived from thinkers like Bastiat, Adam Smith, and John Locke just because I admitted that I saw some young yuppie trying to pass off as libertarian in a Milo debate. That’s an indictment Bill Kristol and Paul Krugman would be envious of.It’s laughable and you’re ridiculous. Further, I think you are mistaking me for Under Network. I just laughed you off, you “called me out”. I wasn’t even HERE for libertarianism, nor was I really discussing it. I was ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD: CAPITALISM. Look at my original posts in reply to you. It was pure economics. I simply said as long as your not a foolish bernie supporter since he and his supporters are economically illiterate. (Clearly they are as you shown)
In fact, I’ve lost a LOT of respect for you as a poster where before I had no opinion to go on. After this debate you are of course free to continue being idiotic and thinking the government is in the business of making cheeses and libertarians are whatever the hell you claim (another hilarity), I won’t suffer the same consequences you will. So you may dismiss my loss of respect, but prepare for years of the same from other intelligent men.
Keep this in mind, from what I gathered you are clearly VERY young (teens) and naive, intellectually dishonest and arrogant, CONFUSED AS F~~~ since nothing you say is making sense, you simply regurgitate propaganda instead of personally taking time to learn systems of economics and philosophies, and you are abrasive but not in a good way as it is more just plain annoying and grating.
Survivor, you shouldn’t worry about MGTOW being a place for libertarians, you should worry about your own lack of respectable character.
Anonymous0He has no common sense and his supporters just want free stuff without realizing people don’t do s~~~ for free.
You mean like mandatory unpaid overtime?
There is no such thing as mandatory unpaid overtime. You work there because you choose to work there. Only stupid people get taken advantage of because they either are too afraid to work for themselves or they lack the sufficient skills to actually be productive.
If you think your job can be easily replaced then it is most likely true and you probably will be. I suggest you start learning how to actually work.
Yes huh. There is so. But you’ve preemptively dehumanized these victims. Such a libertarian thing to do
Stop worshipping the job creators. They are an unworthy deity. And half the time they’re destroying jobs…
Seeing as how you hate job creators we now know that you don’t have one. For starters people who start businesses are usually leaders. They lead themselves and when they have enough resources they help lead others. This is how jobs are created.
Governments do not create jobs,businesses do. When a government creates a job they go into deeper debt. When a company creates a job they generate income. Know the difference.
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