Young MGTOW needs confusion cleared up.

Topic by Alex

Alex

Home Forums Introductions Young MGTOW needs confusion cleared up.

This topic contains 11 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Varun  Varun 3 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #266040
    +4
    Alex
    Alex
    Participant
    4

    Hi, I’m 19yo and live in Canada. I gotta say I’m a bit confused by the ideas of MGTOW, maybe you can clarify a few things for me.

    But first, a background about me (sorry for the length, skip to bold text if you don’t care). I was raised by my single mom along with my sister (3 years older than me). I never had the experience of living with both my parents since they divorced when I was 2yo.
    My mother have been ill ever since she gave birth to me. She also had a brain attack when I was still a baby, which lead her to lose memory. Anyway, I grew up taking care of my mom.

    My sister has been a man hater for a lot of years and that had a lot of influence on how I see things. She kept saying things like how all men are rapist, vulgar and monsters. So I grew up thinking all women think men are perverts… so if ever I’d be to talk to a girl, I’d think that she assumes all I want is to get in her pants, that I’m just a perverts and whatever I do is just for sex. So that’s one of the reasons I just don’t talk to girls :/

    I see myfather 5-6 times a year (christmas, father’s day, his birthday, my birthday, etc)

    I remember when I was 11-12yo I thought I’d never have a girlfriend or get married, I’d always be alone. I wasn’t being pessimist, I just thought love wasn’t for me, I wasn’t interested in it.. and I’ve rejected a few girls thinking that I’m just not on the list of people that you can love, go love someone else. I didn’t understand what was the point of being in a relationship.

    I kept that way of thinking until I had my first and last girlfriend. We were best friends and we were in love. But I wasn’t a good boyfriend, I didn’t know what to do, what was expected of me. What was right and what was wrong. I never had a role model for these kind of things. I was a complete blue pill beta as you describe them. I thought girls were precious beings, pure and divine, untouchable, perfect. And I believed my relation with this girl was all those things.
    She broke up with me after 6 months.

    I had a lot of friends, I was kinda the guy that brought the group together.. but after she broke up, I got depressed for a long time.. and I didn’t want my friends to have to deal with how I was feeling. So I left them all. I went in exile and chose a bitter solitude.

    I graduated, didn’t go to prom. Got a fresh start in college, I was successful and talented, I stayed away from people but inevitably made some “half-friends”, the kind of people you only see in class.
    I had a bright future ahead, but after 1 year, I quit college.

    As of who I am now? I’m an heavily introverted artist, socially anxious, college drop-out, guy who lives in his mother’s basement and doesn’t have a job, doesn’t understand the concept of “dating” and has never flirted with a girl, doesn’t have any friends, doesn’t go in bars or other social places, has never drunk alcohol, never took drugs, never had sex, I’m just a kid that doesn’t understand how life works, but wants to learn. I’m not manly, nor effeminate, but I do lean towards the later. I’m whatever insult you can think of, but I’m not a bad person, I have values and moral stances I believe in.

    My days consist of playing music, taking long walks in the woods, playing video games and working as an indie game developer. I have a project, a goal, a vision and means to achieve it.
    I’m confident in my personality and my appearance, I think I’m looking fine. I’m not a social outcast, I’ve never been rejected by anyone as far as I remember. But I do live outside of all social interactions and norms (besides internet).

    Sorry, I write a lot, it’s just that I rarely talk about myself and when I get to it, it just get all out.

    Now, I said MGTOW needed some clarification for me… The message I get from this group, is that men do what they want. We take ownership over our lives instead of being dragged into whatever is harmful to us.
    What I don’t understand is why, as a group, you seem to despise other men that don’t fill your criteria.

    I read the glossary and the best example of what I mean is the definition of Omega Male:
    “Omega Male
    The bottom of the barrel loser. A David Futrelle. A Manboob. The kind of failure who couldn’t get a woman’s attention if his life depended on it. Men disrespect him, and women are not even aware of his existence.”

    If you read my wall of bold text above, you’d probably classify me under Omega (altho I’m too thin to have man boobs), but… why does MGTOW classify men like that. I thought this movement was more about ‘Live and let live’. but here you’re still having a despising look at how some men live their lives. If a man wants to go through marriage, or support feminism… isn’t he just going his own way as well? it’s just not the same way as MGTOW’s..
    There must be something I misunderstood, please enlighten me ^^

    I live how I intend to and I don’t need a woman to find satisfaction in life. I have a vision and I’m clearing my way to it. I have a strong passion for game development (currently leading a small team of talented people on the internet) and composing music so that’s where my life is headed.
    The thing is I rather not identify myself as a MGTOW if it defines me as a “bottom of the barrel loser/failure”. Not that I really care how people see me, but it would be a bit weird. xD

    Thanks for reading, sorry for grammar, english isn’t my mother tongue. Y’all have a wonderful day. 🙂

    #266043
    +4
    Stan1192
    Stan1192
    Participant
    178

    Hello Brother !

    Let me start by telling you that I see some similarities of your story to mine. I just posted my introduction as well 🙂

    unsafe childhood, not having learned how to be around females, dropping out of college. Considering what you told us, you do have a path that you are following. And considering how young you are with your whole life still to come I believe you will be just fine. Just keep doing what you’re doing, not for anyone else but yourself.

    I think that a MGTOW will not go around judging other people like that, isn’t that what “going their OWN way” is about ? To do what one wants and feels is best for them without giving any importance to things that do not or should not affect them ? That’s how I see it.

    Me personally would not “classify” you as the “omega male” that you quoted in your introduction and you should not either. To me, based on what you told me is that you are already going your own way with your goal and vision. Just keep true to yourself and see where it gets you !:)

    Your situation is a lot similar to mine , and I am 4 years older than you and only now about to start school. I’m sure you will be fine man !

    #266052
    +2
    Wally
    Wally
    Participant

    I can understand and see where your confusion lies. In terms of MGTOW terms such as Omega, Alpha, Beta or Sigma are often use. But if you truly think about it these terms have no meaning if you are truly going your own way, you just are, it shouldn’t matter what others think of you.

    Some of the “dispise” of other men is towards those that try to shame us back to the plantation ( marriage, white knights, captain save a hoe types, the blue pilled world).

    Your 19 years old, I highly doubt anyone here will look down on you, you don’t flirt with girls? Good for you! Neither do I anymore! You are ahead of the game on that one.

    Continue focusing on you, sounds like you have some skills as a game developer, and have a goal in mind again at 19 years, the world is your oyster. You have nothing tying you down.

    You don’t know how life works? I think your wrong, you have avoid a lot of the bulls~~~ that other men get caught up in, because deep down you know it’s bulls~~~!

    Welcome to MGTOW!

    "what a waste of a life, to marry, give up your freedom, just for the hope of not dying alone. Don't get married Son."

    #266058
    +3

    Possible Tuna. HOWEVER, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt. My friend, you’re way too young to have things “figured out” yet. Men don’t reach a good level of maturity until 28 at the youngest. The good news is we continue to mature throughout our lives, while women, on the other hand, reach their maturity at 17-18. AND STOP MATURING. My own mother has the mindset of an 18 year-old — at 87.

    I was a virgin until I was 27. So f~~~ing what. Who cares if you’ve never had sex. Most adolescent brains are unable to handle the radical chemical changes that occur with this act.

    MGTOW is about learning the design laws [the protocols on how life was designed to operate] and moving in to harmony with those laws. For a simple example: putting a loaded gun to your head and pulling the trigger is CONTRARY to the laws of physics [i.e. Newton’s third law of momentum, which is paraphrased “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.”] The bullet’s momentum will react “oppositely” with you flesh and bone, causing death or severe impairment. There are too many other laws to go in to now, but suffice it to say, you have plenty of time to search.

    Best of luck to you. Do NOT become a hermit. Isolation breeds isolation.

    When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

    #266065
    +3

    Hey Alex,

    How you live your life is up to you, Why would I look down on you because your living your life they way you are. I don’t nor do I
    Believe anyone here wants to judge you.

    I don’t accept the narrative a man hating woman might project on to you
    We are to be judge by our actions not by what someone else thinks emotionally. I believe most of the guys here are honorable men, who are sick of being taken by women.

    I just turned 60 in May and from what I have seen over the years of how women see men are as follows: Women in College see a promising man he is at the top or close to the top in studies and honor roll. He could be a doctor or lawyer she is thinking he would make a great husband he settles in his profession makes a lot of money she rides along having children then she plans her escape.

    First She tells everyone what a terrible father he is, then she accuses him of being abusive followed by what a terrible lover he is. Then it’s divorce as she creates a narrative that all men are predators or evil yet we only hear her side not his why?

    Duke ‘ Lacrosse was a case where a single woman ruined 3 guys lives just because a woman accused 3 men these guys were branded as rapists when they did nothing wrong.

    University of Virgina a woman accuses a group of men in college of rape
    Again unproved but these guys are guilty until proven innocent these women’s defense was “Well it might not be true but it could of been”
    Sorry Alex, we are Innocent until Proven Guilty. These women react emotionally and instead of proving anything accusation they just make them as men are defined by what these women are saying not the facts.

    WE are Judge by our actions not by some woman’s emotional response
    Just the Facts Alex.

    #266117
    +2
    The Manipulated Man
    The Manipulated Man
    Participant
    1856

    maybe you can clarify a few things for me

    All of the active Artists and Musicians that I know, including myself, have jobs out in the world besides their art.

    The income from these jobs help support themselves and the integrity of their Art/ Music.

    Alex, get a full time Job!

    Part- Time, Temp, or day laborer will do for now.

    Move out of your Mom’s basement ASAP.

    Stop playing video games!

    Minimize you music practice.

    All of your energy should be focused on your freedom.

    Read everything on the MGTOW Forums.

    Read all of the books recommended by MGTOWs.

    Read, Read, and Read.

    Listen to and watch all MGTOW recordings/ videos in the Archives.

    You may eventually play the occasional video game when you are a free man.

    Music is a hard life filled with debauchery and degenerate people. Thread carefully and stay away from drugs/ alcohol.

    What I don’t understand is why, as a group, you seem to despise other men that don’t fill your criteria.

    When you work with depraved Blue Pill men for a while, it will all make sense.

    Nevertheless, your loaded question/ statement is the type that women make.

    Possible Tuna.

    Alex, your post is suspected as a Feminist infiltration because it lacks the understanding of the following truths which are self-evident to all free men:

    Pure masculinity is a treasure and the foundation of Civilization.

    Over time, exposure to “C~~~s,” and “Woman’s Nature,” turns men into abominations.

    All of our problems in the Western World today are a direct result of pusillanimous behavior.

    Marriage or Relations~~~s are, in fact, a form of slavery for a man.

    Those of us freed slaves who have “left the plantation” are scarred for life.

    Alex, my great prosperity now is a direct result of leaving the plantation.

    However, because of my marriage and subsequent relations~~~s, I am more belligerent, unimaginative, and lack serenity.

    The few men I know from working in the trades who have been MGTOW their entire lives are more fun, kind, creative, peaceful, and enjoy the tranquility in their lives.

    What happens when a man finally comprehends the cold and calculating thoughts that are going through a woman's mind, while her eyes are brimming with tears?

    #266138
    +4
    Xlrsnbrg
    xlrsnbrg
    Participant
    1786

    This is the first time I hear about the term omega male, I have no idea what it is.

    Keep in mind that the terms alpha/beta and all the other “sex market” theory have been created by the pick-up artists and have nothing to do with the MGTOW philosophy, although some are tangentially relevant.

    The way I see it, understanding what MGTOW is has two sides:

    1. Understanding woman behavior, especially in the context of our current society.

    Hypergamy: the instinct of women to choose the strongest, richest partner; the best provider for them and their children. This is most likely a result of human evolution.

    There are several problems with following such instincts in our modern society:

    a. While in the prehistoric ages all of these characteristics were found together in the same male, nowadays it is usually not the case. Rich men tend to have desk jobs that do not require or do not allow enough time for physical activity, while men who are very physically active often have significantly lower income.

    ( Note that there are men like sport stars for example, who are both strong and rich, which are often chased by hordes of women. )

    Thus it is harder for women to find men who make them “feel” happy. They have multiple solutions for this problem:

    A. They sleep around like crazy (aka “the c~~~ carousel”) with physically attractive males (aka “alpha male” or “Chad Thunderc~~~”) in their twenties, then “settle down” to marry a richer but less attractive guy (aka the “beta male” or the provider).

    B. They marry the richer but less attractive guy, but have affairs with Chads.

    C. A followed by B

    D. They marry the richer but less attractive guy. They are faithful, but they feel “bored” and “miserable” and blame their mental state on the husband, making him miserable too.

    b. As men grow older, women find them less attractive physically. Another cause for cheating.

    c. The divorce laws nowadays offer the woman usually 50% of everything, child support and spousal support, which covers the “provider” part of their instinct. It works like an incentive for the woman to divorce you for a young strong guy regardless of how much money he has, because you will be paying their bills for 2 decades. Not to mention that you will usually lose the kids.

    d. Women have a natural clock to seek new partners every 4 years. There was a book on this finding published by a female psychologist who experienced it herself, I don’t have the reference but maybe other members can point to it.

    The wall: When women reach a certain age, usually at some point in their thirties, their bodies start producing more testosterone and their physical appearance changes, causing the features that make them sexually attractive to men to diminish. Most women are aware of this change as it is not sudden; it often marks the switch from riding the c~~~ carousel to finding a beta provider. Additionally, as they lose their power of manipulating men through flirting, some may become frustrated and bitter.

    Feelings: Women are emotional creatures. Compared to men, they are guided more strongly by their subconscious feelings as opposed to their reason. If you don’t trust me, read some threads from https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/

    NAWALT: The idea that “not all women are like that”, as in there are “good” women who do not cheat, do not marry/divorce you for your money etc. Usually given as a rebuttal of the above.

    My view on this is that while it’s true that some women are better than others, when choosing a partner it is very difficult to predict which is which and how they will react to unexpected life changing situations (e.g. you losing your job or getting sick). If you make a mistake, the risk is very high: you will ruin your life emotionally and financially; meanwhile the benefits are not that great: companionship and children. Thus many men find marriage unattractive.

    In a nutshell, one side of MGTOW is that marriage in our society is very risky while offering little benefits.

    2. Understanding yourself

    A lot of men evaluate themselves by how attractive they appear to women, to the point that it is one of the most important goals in their life to be attractive. This is most likely another instinct evolved by our species, although it is also heavily reinforced by our culture (e.g. kid’s stories and cartoons with knights in shining armor saving the princess).

    The side effects are becoming insecure when rejected, and eventually unhappy or depressed as you keep doing something that your mind unconsciously realizes is pointless.

    It is indeed pointless for two reasons.

    First, women prefer stronger males. Strong males are attractive to a lot of women, so they don’t try too hard to please them. Thus if you are physically unattractive and you try to compensate by working harder to please women, you actually appear even less attractive to her. So you get either rejected, or taken advantage of. There is a joke that the best way to attract a woman is to tell her to leave.

    Second, it is stupid to make it a life goal to please others, regardless of them being women, gods, alien overlords etc. You should instead find things you like to do and are good at, which are also financially sustainable, and follow your own dreams.

    Thus the second side of MGTOW is to focus on yourself: your education, your career, your dreams.

    This is my understanding of the MGTOW philosophy. But I’m a random guy on the Internet and new to this forum and not everyone here agrees with me, so take it with a grain of salt.

    My advice is not to put any label on yourself. Just take any useful info you find here, apply the principles to your own life and share with us any stories or insights that might help others.

    A man shouldn't make his life's objective to be on the side of the majority, but to avoid finding himself in the ranks of the insane. (Marcus Aurelius)

    #266157
    +3
    Atton
    Atton
    Participant

    I have a project, a goal, a vision and means to achieve it.

    Like what define it?

    What I don’t understand is why, as a group, you seem to despise other men that don’t fill your criteria.

    I can only speak for myself, however I don’t despise men who do no harm to others.

    I thought this movement was more about ‘Live and let live’. but here you’re still having a despising look at how some men live their lives. If a man wants to go through marriage, or support feminism… isn’t he just going his own way as well? it’s just not the same way as MGTOW’s..

    Marriage and other institutions limit the freedom of men massively. This leads to situations which cause significant harm to men. MGTOW simply exists to warn men away from these things. That is the difference between what men are doing currently and what MGTOW are doing. Men will do whatever they want, no movement or philosophy can change that.

    A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

    #266164
    +1
    Narwhal
    narwhal
    Participant

    Just because a term is described in the dictionary does not mean that MGTOW despise someone who fits the definition, or support it either. Many of the terms don’t have a MGTOW origin.

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with the way you’re leaving your life, although I would say you cannot be happy living in your mom’s basement forever. Music is not a stable reliable career, so I’d recommend a backup plan.

    I think it’s great that you currently don’t have a desire to be in a relationship with women. However, that will change one day. It’s best to have a good understanding of the dangers of relationships with women so that you can make logical decisions when the time comes instead of emotional ones.

    Ok. Then do it.

    #266165
    +2
    Samsquanch
    Samsquanch
    Participant
    4226

    Welcome brother. MGTOW is what you make of it. Don’t worry about people arguing or trying to define others. In the end it doesn’t matter because you are who you are, and you’re young and I’m sure you’re still working on it. I’m 32 and I’m still trying to understand exactly who I am. I thought I needed a woman to be happy and to feel “Normal” But now that I have little to no interactions with women, I do what I want to do with my evenings and weekends and I’m no longer a slave to the vagina. I’ve also never been happier in my life. Read through the forums and you’ll discover what MGTOW means to you.

    #267485
    +2
    Xlrsnbrg
    xlrsnbrg
    Participant
    1786

    d. Women have a natural clock to seek new partners every 4 years. There was a book on this finding published by a female psychologist who experienced it herself, I don’t have the reference but maybe other members can point to it.

    Found a review of that book: /content/books/PDF/Women's%20Infidelity.pdf

    A man shouldn't make his life's objective to be on the side of the majority, but to avoid finding himself in the ranks of the insane. (Marcus Aurelius)

    #268729
    +1
    Varun
    Varun
    Participant
    2981

    Hello Alex.

    First, welcome to mgtow.com.

    Second, do not think of yourself as an omega male. It might appear that the term definition is portrayed in a negative way, but it isn’t. Its just an ‘honest’ definition…..one that you would never find at another place.

    Omega doesn’t necessarily mean ‘loser’. “The bottom of the barrell loser” is relative to the context: sexual conquest. Omegas are failures at sexual conquest.

    But MGTOW philosophies would never concern you with sexual conquest. It just tells you to live your own life the way you please. This way, both the term and definition holds sparse relations to MGTOW.

    As for ‘despising men of other classes’, the only people we ‘despise’ are those who ive under the illusion that that they’re making their lives worthwhile by pleasing other people without getting anything in return.

    Its proven that feminism, marriage delivers zero benefits for men; so the supporters of those are never going their own way; they are treading onto someone else’s path and their work results in someone else’s benefit, not theirs.

    I hope I made it clear to you.

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

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