Would Trump make America great by passing universal healthcare with Democrats?

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

You have a number of progressive wing Democrats pushing universal healthcare. The Democratic Party would go for universal healthcare in America, if they could get political support.

Trump is threatening to work with Democrats on healthcare if the Republican Party can’t get its act together and be a unified front:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/tax-reform-trump-work-with-democrats/index.html

First part: Is there any possible scenario where Trump could work with a party not in power in any branch in the U.S government to get legislation pass? How does this happen, and not be an empty threat? If it looks like it would be an empty threat, how does it change in any way? Is Trump banking on the GOP losing congress in 2018, so the Democrats get in charge? If the Democrats get in charge, how does he know that they will not just go for impeachment, and just push universal healthcare on him?

Second part: Trump, in the past supported universal healthcare.

Trump praises universal healthcare of Australia:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/index.html

Trump also ended up praising the healthcare system of Namibia (he was misprounced Nambia by Trump). Namibia has a universal healthcare system.

So, do you either think universal healthcare is what America needs, or that Trump won’t actually support it, as he said he wouldn’t, and happened to repeatedly praise GOP efforts that moved America away from Universal Healthcare, to block grants and more market-driven solutions?

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Anonymous 6]

Trump will use it as a threat but it would never pass over here. And Thank God for that. We could never handle full blown socialism and i hate that so many millennials are so favorable to getting everything for free. When everybody has the same thing, the quality usually goes down. And when you get everything you need from the government, the government can also take away everything you need.

F~~~ socialism. F~~~ Jean Rousseau for coming up with it. F~~~ communism. Double f~~~ to Canada, Europe, and Venezuela. F~~~ anybody that thinks it would be a good idea. If universal healthcare is so great, how come people in Canada always come over here for major operations?

The problem with healthcare in this country is not availability, it’s cost of service. Ever been in a pharmacy lately, medicine costs an ass load of money for only a month supply of pills. I know a guy who recently went through a heart surgery and it cost his insurance $455,000 dollars. The cost of medical service is too high in this country and until that gets solved, this healthcare argument is bulls~~~ to the highest degree.

[AttonParticipant]

Threats and intimidation sounds like politics.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[HydroParticipant 164]

Trump cannot pass any legislation by himself. At most he could sign some sort of universal healthcare legislation IF it passed both houses of congress. The majority of Americans hate Obamacare, and don’t want government involved in healthcare at all. So I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell a universal healthcare bill would pass either house of congress.

Trump is wrong on his wanting to cover everyone. American’s don’t agree. Americans want people to work, earn their own money, and pay for their own health care. The election of Roy Moore shows that the conservative ideals of Trumpism are bigger than and carry more weight than Trump himself.

[FrankOneParticipant 1421]

One of the problems with Trump is, he just wants a political victory. The actual policy doesn’t matter. Rand Paul provided this valuable insight.

Looking at it in this light, explains how he can support ANY health care package so long as it wins.

Hydro: Nonsense. Americans LOVE government involvement in health care. Otherwise, the Medicare drug benefit would not have passed by Republicans years ago. There would not be a tax break for employer provided insurance. There would be no medicaid. And no ACA.

Americans do not want free markets, price signals, and efficiency. They want command and control. And free $hit, as long as somebody, anybody, other than them, pays for it.

Conservative ideas of Trumpism? There are none. Remember when hurricane relief was signed along with raising the debt ceiling by the Fuhrer? Instead of offsetting relief spending with cuts elsewhere? Along with his Republican henchmen and Democrat super Villains? This is not fiscal conservatism. Kneeling NF felons do not matter, but government comprising 40 percent of GDP does matter.

Venom: It is not that everyone has the same thing under universal coverage that causes quality to go down. It is the lack of price signals and competition. Without this, government attempts to control costs by rationing — long waits for procedures, etc. If the US had a competitive free market system, where there was little insurance and regulation, and people paid for care out of pocket as they did 75 years ago, it would be efficient. That is NOT the sort of system mainstream republicans could ever support, it would be political suicide.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Anonymous wrote:

The problem with healthcare in this country is not availability, it’s cost of service. Ever been in a pharmacy lately, medicine costs an ass load of money for only a month supply of pills. I know a guy who recently went through a heart surgery and it cost his insurance $455,000 dollars. The cost of medical service is too high in this country and until that gets solved, this healthcare argument is bulls~~~ to the highest degree.

I completely agree with this…and it sucks that this isn’t ever an issue they try to fix with “healthcare reform.” It doesn’t matter how we split the bill when you are being overcharged to begin with, and this is what made Obamacare doomed to fail from the start. Even if Republicans get 100% on board with Obamacare right now and tweak it you can’t fix it because it doesn’t actually address the real issue…all it is a wealth redistribution scheme designed to price the middle class out of healthcare so they’ll support universal healthcare, which is what the democrats wanted from the start.

If you don’t want universal healthcare, trying to “fix” Obamacare is like wanting to live but slowly poisoning yourself. Why do it? Eventually Obamacare will implode, its already in the process of it, the only question is who will hold the majority when it happens…if its Republicans we’ll move back more towards a free market system, if its democrats we’re going to end up with a single payer system.

The other thing that is complete bulls~~~ right now is the Republicans managed to put Obamacare repeal bills on Obama’s desk knowing he would veto it…but now that Trump is more than willing to pass it, they can’t put an Obamacare repeal bill on Trump’s desk?

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Obamacare is the middle ground between the whole right wing free market everything, and the left’s nationalized healthcare. It is what you get here as a compromise. The GOP can’t push things more right from Obamacare, because people can’t afford to have coverage otherwise.

I am now stuck working in a call center tied to the Affordable Care Act. I see people calling in for coverage and trying to do it. It isn’t good, but the alternatives before didn’t work either. There weren’t even any markets either, and the whole thing now is a game of seeing who else can pay for coverage. “Buying insurance” is code word for buying money to pay for coverage.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[HydroParticipant 164]

There are news reports that President Trump is preparing an executive order that would allow Americans to buy health insurance across state lines:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-preparing-executive-order-to-let-americans-purchase-health-insurance-across-state-lines/article/2635808

In theory, these voluntary health associations would not only have greater negotiating strength due to their numbers but could get bids from many, many more insurance companies resulting in far lower cost health insurance for their members.

A Senate GOP source told the Washington Examiner the executive action is considered “a done deal” and likely to be announced “in the next few weeks.”

[FrankOneParticipant 1421]

IGMOW writes: Obamacare is the middle ground between the whole right wing free market everything, and the left’s nationalized healthcare. It is what you get here as a compromise. The GOP can’t push things more right from Obamacare, because people can’t afford to have coverage otherwise.

But is it? The right wing doesn’t believe in free market ANYTHING. Don’t believe me? All of their replacement proposals have essentially been ‘Obamacare light’. The Republican governor in my State supports the Medicare expansion. And Republicans PASSED the Medicare Part D expansion in 2003. So it’s fair to say Republicans LOVE government involvement in health care almost to the last man. The only time they DON’T like government meddling in health care is when the Democrats pass it; then, it’s ‘Socialism’. Just like they don’t like to raise the debt ceiling EXCEPT when they are in power, then, they’d rather save the hypocritical embarasment of voting for it every couple of months.

Obamacare, like ALL OTHER LEGISLATION, was written largely by lobbyists from the industry it impacted: Health care. The only real alternative to these corrupt politics, is a free market system where providers compete. There is no FDA. I can walk into the pharmacy and buy whatever I want, no prescription needed. Anybody can practice medicine; the consumer choose whether to go to an MD, DO, or nurse practitioner. Hospitals don’t need ‘certificates of need’ to operate. Instead, if an entrpreneur wants to open a new one, it’s TOUGH S~~~ for the ones already in the community, they gotta compete just like every other business in the private sector… He doesn’t have to send unmarked bills to politicians for a ‘certificate of need’. That is one example of so many.

Truth is, it’s bad policy whether passed by Republicans OR Democrats. Lack of price signals causes elevated prices and/or rationing. Free markets are the most efficient providers of goods and services.

If government is so efficient, why not have it run factories, corporations, and stores in addition to health care?

If you look back to BEFORE most people had insurance, and paid out of pocket, procedures cost far LESS than they do today. Childbirth is a good example; even with epidurals and lower mortality rates, why is it costing MULTIPLES of what it did in the 1940’s and 1950’s. I would argue much of it is because of insurance paying most bills, and a lack of competition in most areas. Medical liability insurance also plays a role. There are many factors.

Another great example, a friend of mine’s child broke his arm, the hospital just added thousands of dollars of charges for services/drugs not provided. He contested it, even though insurance covered it all. Most people wouldn’t have bothered. After his deductible, he had no skin in the game. There was no incentive for him to try to contain the costs of the fraudulent charges.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

FrankOne wrote:

Another great example, a friend of mine’s child broke his arm, the hospital just added thousands of dollars of charges for services/drugs not provided. He contested it, even though insurance covered it all. Most people wouldn’t have bothered. After his deductible, he had no skin in the game. There was no incentive for him to try to contain the costs of the fraudulent charges.

Its sick how it works. My mom has some health issues and usually ends up with a few multi day stays in the hospital each year, and she gets doctors that are already in the hospital for others reasons that walk by, poke their head in her door, make small talk for 30 seconds, then low and behold when she’s checking out a couple days later and looking over her bill they added on 300 dollars or some obscene amount for a visit she didn’t request in which they did absolutely nothing for her.

She fights every one of them tooth and nail and gets the charges dropped, but like you say though, most people in this situation hit their deductible and don’t care anymore because its not out of their pocket at that point, even though the next year we all feel it as our premiums and deductibles rise.

Part of the problem too is when you got government programs that only pay a fraction of what care costs that hospitals and doctors literally lose money on…they have to make it up somewhere, so ultimately the more these government programs are expanded the more the rest of us will be scammed out of in a roundabout way.

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