Would basic income/welfare state work?

[RulesParticipant 55]

We are witnessing the rise of robots. It is estimated that a great portion of jobs can be automated. So we should definitely find alternative lifestyles than working for people. Basic income has been introduced as one possibility. Would it work?

There is always status competiton between men. If everyone was given same amount of money, there would still be “losers”, but the hierarchy wouldnt be dependent on wealth or income. Basic income would basically mean that economical part of hieararchy would be destroyed. Producitivity is increasing so rapidly that you could buy everything you can imagine with the basic income because goods are getting cheaper and cheaper. This would lead into a situation where there would be huge disadvantage to work. You would become a “loser” by working hard. While you were studying physics at home, your peers would be founding new friendsihps and rising their social status playing beech volley etc.

In Basic income economy there would be a huge disadvantage to work. But maybe that is what we need if robots do the work. Young people should just realize that “hard work” is redundant and can ruin your life.

The only reason I believe the welfare state worked earlier decades in Europe was because older people who had learned skills couldnt change their direction anymore. They had worked very hard and when the welfare state was introduced it was too late for them to take it easy. The younger generations realize that in welfare state there is no reason to work hard and waste your free time. Why become a scientist if punk band bass player gets more social benefits and friends? Why waste your friendships by working hard? Especially since in welfare state economical disparity is being vanished by taxation. But maybe today we need disadvantage to work. Maybe we need more bass players.

[bomwaParticipant 488]

It would work fine, for a time (could be a very long time; thousands of years).

I see it as simply going full circle to the hunter gatherer days. People did not work in the modern sense of the word. They simply consumed what was readily available in the environment. The robotic age will present a modern environment in which people consume what is readily available.

The common theme binding hunter gatherer age with robotic age is the lack of work. So I believe the basic wage will work fine. But are we ready to go back to our communal roots?

[Anonymous 42]

Free markets without the parasitic effects of central governments ruling one f~~~-me-in-the-ass social extraction is better than me deciding where my income serves best?
The welfare state in America led by (you know who), as devastated the working class making us scrounge for economic scraps that may or may not fall from their feasting table. EVERY WELFARE STATE PROMISING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING HAS COLLAPSED THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

Too many leaches kills the host, that’s what feminism is doing. When looking at “basic income”, that money is stolen from someone else.

Making everyone poorer and not richer for “earning” the fruits of their labor to be “squandered” on someone else, only brings everyone down as eventually there’s nothing left to steal from the now IMPOVERISHED WORKING CLASS.

Basic pay is socialism/communism, it’s an idea from the hive, get it out of your head!

Heaping more “responsibility” onto the government and demanding the responsible citizen to shoulder the burdens for the irresponsible only destroys the incentive to be responsible and lowers their “production” until poverty becomes the “standard”.

America has been slowly bridled to progressive socialism since the 1930’s, it’s grown government on an epidemic scale, it’s finally grinding our economy to a halt, even 0% interest can’t get it moving again, to many government leaches.
Too much erosion to the constitution and it’s “numerated powers”, once upon a time the constitution was looked at as “restricting the size and scope of government”.

Now it’s abused to the point of carrying perverted laws into the bathrooms. They’ve managed to abolish commonsense!

[bomwaParticipant 488]

There’s never been a free market in human history. But we are actually witnessing the emergence of a robotic workforce.

Why not limit your comments to reality not the hypothetical?

[Anonymous 11]

On general principle no, it would lead to lives of indolence for most people. We think we have a land whale problem at this point in time.

The perfection of robotics and AI will turn things upside down socially and economically. One cannot have 0.01 % percent of the population owning everything while everyone else sucks from massa guvmint’s teet.

Maybe it won’t be so bad. People could individually purchase robots and actually sell things and services.

Hugo’s ideals lead to people hunting cats and dogs to simply survive.

[experiencedParticipant]

My guess is it wouldn’t work because like a flat tax, there would immediately be exceptions for this and that.
This and that being slothful people and greedy people.
“some more equal than others”
Such a system would easily put hitherto unbelievable power in the hands very few.
“who’s guarding the guards”

Kind of goes against rewarding men for hard work.

Pure communism vs. Actual communism.
Pure capitalism vs. actual capitalism.
Pure “new system” vs. actual “new system”

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

“Would basic income/welfare state work”

We have one. It’s called the United States of America, and it’s not working.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[Anonymous 3]

It would be a lot cheaper than paying all these worthless government employees. But that’s the reason why it exists, those government employees are connected, so the rest of society has to work and pay taxes so the lazy government can justify its existence. It’s all a shell game, and a really lame one if you actually know what’s going on.

And even outside of government, the vast majority of business in this country is initiated through the government, in the form of government contracts or grants.

The only reason the US developed into what it did is because a lot of men died in WWI and WWII, and the US had bombed everyone else out to the stone age. That time is long gone, and we are now gunning for full third world status, where all the rich are in government and everyone else is a poor oppressed schmuck.

There’s no fixing this, and I guarantee the government will not just willingly cede its power. So just prepare for slavery/serfdom again, because that was the customary life for the vast majority of people everywhere in world history. I might be dead before then, young people now might taste a bit of it. Eventually another generation will grow up that has b~~~~ and understands who are their enemies, and the cycle might repeat.

[AnthonyParticipant 2281]

Anonymous wrote:

EVERY WELFARE STATE PROMISING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING HAS COLLAPSED THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

The BEST example of this is modern day Venezuala. It’s a socialist/welfare state and it’s collapsing hard:

I’d rather have a small government, small taxes, and a thriving free market than a welfare state. F~~~ welfare states.

Anonymous wrote:

Basic pay is socialism/communism, it’s an idea from the hive, get it out of your head!

It is. Women naturally benefit from a welfare state more than men do, so it’s only natural they’d advocate for one.

Once you have a Fleshlight real vaginas become worthless.

[Anonymous 11]

What is Venezuela’s nanny state doing for these c~~~s. If you answered nothing or killing them en masse then you’d be in the ballpark. Move there now Sean Penn you sorry assed PC mangina.

Their frigs look like mine except I drive to a fully stocked market to replenish supplies every day. The nearest one just put up bike rack so come Fall. I will walk and bike there.

I’d hunt dogs, cats, and squirrels before waiting in line for five hours. It’d leave plenty of time for crabbing, fishing and shrimping too.

@Tower:

http://www.basspro.com/Benjamin-Guide-Hawk-Break-Barrel-Air-Rifle/product/1601261415/?cm_ven=bazaarvoice&cm_cat=QA_PSVP&cm_pla=1601261415&cm_ite=image_link

My friend has another version of this Nitro piston tech Benjamin .22. It’s a f~~~ing tack driver out to 30 meters. Quiet as a ninja too.

[AnthonyParticipant 2281]

Anonymous wrote:

What is Venezuela’s nanny state doing for these c~~~s. If you answered nothing or killing them en masse then you’d be in the ballpark. Move there now Sean Penn you sorry assed PC mangina.

They’re definitely not doing anything for them. But, I bet before things got to this state in Venezuela, their country looked more like ours in regards to welfare. I’d also bet single men especially, are off far worse than those women in that video. And no one’s even paying attention to them.

Anonymous wrote:

I’d hunt dogs, cats, and squirrels before waiting in line for five hours. It’d leave plenty of time for crabbing, fishing and shrimping too.

I’d rather hunt before I waited that long in lines as well. F~~~ that s~~~. At least if you have basic hunting skills, I bet anyone could hunt and get food faster than waiting in line.

Once you have a Fleshlight real vaginas become worthless.

[AttonParticipant]

Robots will completely replace human labor. Everyone will end up living like the rich, the elite will be the ones who control the robots.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[Anonymous 11]

I could live off the sea if need be, pick wild edible plants, and my chickens lay eggs. I know I used to like slaughtering squirrels, but they really are not that good. They’re great for target practice though. Dove are not bad eating either, and they are all over the place here.

They say raccoon is good if it can be properly prepared. My Father ate coons, crows and whatever else he could kill during the 1930s depression here.

[Anonymous 42]

Anonymous wrote:

@Tower:

http://www.basspro.com/Benjamin-Guide-Hawk-Break-Barrel-Air-Rifle/product/1601261415/?cm_ven=bazaarvoice&cm_cat=QA_PSVP&cm_pla=1601261415&cm_ite=image_link

My friend has another version of this Nitro piston tech Benjamin .22. It’s a f~~~ing tack driver out to 30 meters. Quiet as a ninja too.

That’s weird, your link is embedded with a dead or broken link to this site, I had to paste it into my browser to see the air rifles.

That’s what I’m talking about, .22 pellets instead of .22 longs, if it were fox or cats, then I’d use the bullets, thicker skulls.

[Anonymous 11]

.22 pellets are complete doom for chipmunks and squirrels. My buddy uses his to collect doves. The trajectory is amazing flat compared to the other .22 pellet guns I’ve fired. I have a .20 caliber Benjamin that can bust them but still no match for .22.

He got an upgraded model at $249 with a crappy laser site and a flashlight. Gimmicks, IMHO.

I have a really nice .177 Diana that got the fiber optic front site broken during a fall. A very common problem, I noticed some of the Rugers featured them.

I really want one of those SCUBA tank fed .50 caliber air rifles. The cool thing is that shooting air rifles is affordable in the ammo department. Practice makes perfect.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

No I don’t think it would work. Simple reason being the tax rate…we have what 25% of our population on medicare/social security, and these programs represent a total payroll tax of 15.3% and currently aren’t taking enough in to stay solvent in their current form. How the hell would we fund a UBI that would essentially be an expansion of these programs to everyone? Are we going to have a 60% UBI tax before we even start adding in income taxes?

The producers are simply going to say f~~~ you and move to another country and take their jobs and their wealth with them…and yes…there still would be plenty of jobs. Any sort of field that requires actual thinking will not be over taken by robots…like any sort of creative or design field, any sort of field that involves experimentation or testing(improving medicine, technology, etc), any field that requires actual human contact(maybe that’s why women love going into social work and early childhood education, they know something we don’t), etc.

Plus for the purpose of our lifetime, the technology just isn’t going to be there or affordable to the masses. Robots in fast food has been a big topic lately with all the fighting going on for 15 dollar minimum wages. What are these robots going to be? A stupid machine that gets loaded up with burger patties and condiments and is programmed to cook a burger for X time, place it on the bottom half of a bun, send it down a conveyor belt that squirts on desired condiments, places on top half of bun, wraps, done. The whole time its going to have to have some guy watching it to make sure it doesn’t jam up or glitch up, and probably a backup machine ready to go at all times so the place doesn’t have to close down every time the machine needs repairs. That right there is a machine that is so damn expensive right now its not even cost effective to install yet…the idea that “robots” that are actually responsive, adaptive, and can perform a large variety of more complex tasks are right around the corner and going to cause mass unemployment is simply a fantasy none of us will live to see.

bomwa wrote:

I see it as simply going full circle to the hunter gatherer days. People did not work in the modern sense of the word.

They had to make their shelter, make their clothes, preserve food so they could survive during the winter, constantly be on the move and carry all their belongings to make sure they had food supplies available, constantly scrounge for fire wood, and hunt big game with sticks and stones…you know, s~~~ if they messed up doing they could very easily get trampled and f~~~ed up and end up dead because they had jack s~~~ for medical care back then lol. How the heck did they not work? Their life style was a hell of a lot tougher than the average person has it today by far.

I think you just have it backwards…the reason humans evolved away from the hunter gather lifestyle is because once they discovered how to farm they realized a few people could feed many, and the non-farmers could go on to improve society in other ways as they didn’t have to worry about their basic needs as much. If we went back to a hunter/gatherer society you’d probably throw a hissy fit soon as your iPhone lost its charge and you realized you couldn’t recharge it because all the power plant workers were out scrounging for food, or even if you could charge it service would eventually shut off without telecom workers to maintain the systems…its not like you’d be living a leisurely life just lounging under a peach tree with an unlimited food supply readily available year round.

[uchibenkeiParticipant 7965]

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.

I bathe in the tears of single moms.

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

Rules wrote:

Basic income has been introduced as one possibility.

Basic income would basically mean that economical part of hieararchy would be destroyed.

In Basic income economy there would be a huge disadvantage to work.
etc

So let me get this straight. You are trying to get people to agree with this “Basic income” without understanding that most of us ALL already have “basic income” if you look at our pay vs. 30 years ago without realizing WHAT is wrong now as opposed to then?

Before preaching and looking ignorant, look into learning what happened to purchasing power of our money. Why cars that were made fully of metal and easily lasted decades were around 2,000 dollars total. Why the richest men in the world were only millionaires instead of all the billionaires we now have.

Why doctors who could easily charge 5 bucks a visit, would live in the same safe suburban neighborhood and the same street as say a factory worker or milkman.

Go learn why that was possible first. Your “basic income” idea seems to be no different than “minimum wage” which will simply increase with inflation.

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

I have no doubt that any system of government “could” work. The main problem is that there are always those who want more, and they will use their power and influence to get their way. Look at communism, all about the worker class and all that, but the countries were still run by the rich and powerful. No matter what system you have, the rich will rule.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Would basic income/welfare state work?

No.

Venezuela.

They don’t even have enough toilet paper to wipe their asses.

The End.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[Author]

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