Where should a red pill man to turn for marriage/divorce counceling?

[Fundamental_manParticipant 209]

Warning, long.
Being in a marriage that seems to lead nowhere, and with kids, I wonder what experiences you have from counceling/support persons?

I am red pill and do not see much or any value (for me!) in keeping the marriage going, but our two kids (age kindergarten resp. first grade) are suffering a bit from my wife and I living in separate homes. We have been separated for some months now.
So any thought about councelling and co-habitating would be to give our children something they ask for; mom and dad living together.
I live in Sweden, so everything is not like in US, but I/we could get councelling or meaningful advice from the communicipal office, from private “advisors”, maybe through our employers’ health care providers, our parents, even through “support networks” in the style of AA.

Any honest advice would be much appreciated!

[Point Of No ReturnParticipant 4074]

I cohabited with my ex for over two months. I can tell you this much. You better have a shield made of titanium to thwart off her missiles loaded with shame- and guilt- tripping warheads.

Know when it is your duty to give them zero explanations for your actions.

[Anonymous 13]

Whatever you do,

DO NOT GO BACK.

If you do you’re at best going to be back in a world of hell and pain.

At worst do the digits 911 mean much to you?

The beast is not 666.

It is 911

All women are 911.

Stay the f~~~ away from her especially since you’re already in separate homes.

[Anonymous 13]

Also, it won’t last anyway.

Neither of you will be able to keep up the pointless facade.

What you gonna do ?

Break their hearts all over again when the INEVITABLE split happens a few more months or years down the line?

F~~~ NO.

Just use all your energy to be the best loving dad to them you can be.

[Anonymous 1]

A lawyer. Get out of that toxic environment.

[Fundamental_manParticipant 209]

Thanks, gentlemen.
Having your heart torn apart as your kids cry and desperately ask you why we can’t all live together will at least make ME grasp for straws.

Maybe this, as hard as it is, still is the least painful option, long term…

[Fundamental_manParticipant 209]

@Kowalski, Lawyers are rarely a part of divorce processes in Sweden. Laws are different, and even married people will retain ownership of items brought into a common home. His car remains his, her sofa remains hers, etc.
Dealing with the house ownership might not be fun, but typically unproblematic and “fair”.

[Two Time WinnerParticipant 1090]

I tried several counselors over a period of years with my soon to be ex wife. It didn’t work because she is narcissist. We went for them to fix me in her mind. When they brought up problem areas for her to work on she always deflected. She said, they were wrong, they didn’t understand her, it was my fault she acted or thought that way.

Counseling only works if both people really want the marriage to work, are willing to own their stuff, and willing to work on whatever they are thinking or doing that harms the marriage relationship.

That was in my blue pill days when I wanted to be married and live the married life. With two failed marriages and coming to this site I have decided that AWALT. My soon to be ex-wife has gotten worse each year of our 23 married years and now is the bitch from hell. I have no further desire for a relationship with a women. At age 62 the sex drive has lessened so it is easier.

You have to decide if you want to be married and what crap you will put up with to stay married. Unless you wife is that elusive unicorn she is not going to change. I am not as dogmatic as some on this website and realize some guys have a desire to make their marriage work for a variety of reasons. If it is your children rather that you and you wife that want to preserve the marriage it is doomed to failure.

TTW

I ain't got a wife to spend my money, I have to do that all by myself.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Fundamental_man wrote:

I wonder what experiences you have from counceling/support persons?

Fundamental_man wrote:

Any honest advice would be much appreciated!

OK then. I hope you don’t mind my direct answer….. but “marriage counseling” is for women and gays – and I couldn’t be more sincere. I have zero experience with attending marriage or relationship “counseling”, and I really LIKE that about myself.

Fundamental_man wrote:

Any thought about councelling and co-habitating would be to give our children something they ask for; mom and dad living together.

Well, now look what you’ve done. My heart breaks a little, because I think all children should have two parents, but I also think if she’s intolerable to live with, there is NO WAY I would live with her.

So that’s the only thing I know about myself on this topic.
I can’t speak about you.

—

A friend I once worked with had two kids. They were going to go for BBQ all together but the kids didn’t want to go. He told his kids, “I don’t CARE whether you want to go – or not. We’re going. Get your shoes.”

That’s more like it. HE determines what’s best and the right thing to do. The kids don’t. I mention this because he thinks modern parents act like they lost a war to their own kids as if kids make decisions – especially important ones.

• Do YOU think marriage & relationship counseling is best?
• Do YOU think living with her (because the kids want it) is best?

Tough questions, but YOU don’t need “counseling” because the woman who once said she “loved” you isn’t even able to maintain civility. I don’t know why women who marry someone end up treating him WORSE than if she never met him at all. She can’t stand to be in the same room with you now??

There’s a book that turns my stomach.
Its’ called “How not to hate your husband after kids”.

(and no I will not link you to it )

It’s the most unacceptable garbage concept I ever heard of as a form of “marriage counseling”. If that’s “marriage counseling” for Moms, then I will thank my personal god I don’t have to deal with it.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[UntamedParticipant]

Cohabitation after a split is WORSE than marriage. You think you may do it for the kids but the kids don’t know the whole situation and don’t understand it. YOU’ll have to live it. A daily C~~~-served dish from hell that’ll leave a sour taste in your mouth for years!

Stay in your place, separate from her. Get a lawyer and prepare yourself mentally for a fight.
Marriage counselling is designed to have you believe YOU’re in the wrong. it’s designed to get you back under her thumb like a good little trained mangina and if you do what she says you might hold on to a little part of your masculinity: the one that starts the BBQ with a beer in hand. Pathetic!

Don't let them Blame, Shame or Tame you!
Give 'em NOTHING, not even an answer!
#GenderSegragationNow!

[joetechParticipant]

Counseling will only work if SHE wants it to. It sounds like your next step is to divorce and work out a shared parenting plan. The kids will always want you guys to get back together again. That’s just the way kids are. There are no easy answers when kids are involved.

"Don't follow in my footsteps...I stepped in something."

[GrumpyParticipant]

To a lawyer, PERIOD.

Once “counseling” is brought up and demanded, the “marriage/relationship” is already over.
All that “counseling” does is add an extra belt of ammo to feed the MG that she has aimed at you.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[CombatRollParticipant 2594]

P L E A S E…. Don’t go back. I did that 7 years ago and I’ve regretted it ever since. It didn’t get better, it got worse. I did it “for the kids”.

The kids are better off seeing you two apart if you can’t get along.

I know its hard, but
Don’t go back….

[Fundamental_manParticipant 209]

Thanks everyone for insightful and balanced replies!
My wife and I are not enemies, never were, so obviously it is hard for the kids to “understand” why we do not stay together.

I instictively share the same view on counseling, that you do. I am too “distanced”/”objective” and true to my values to play that game, I think. Like someone mentioned, adults rarely change their personality much. Lazy, smartphone lovin’, aggressive women probably go through counselling unchanged.

Well, I’ll keep that in the back of my mind if the kids bring up the “mom and dad” question again.
Telling them that we are better off living apart might sink in eventually.

[Anonymous 1]

Fundamental_man wrote:

Thanks everyone for insightful and balanced replies!
My wife and I are not enemies, never were, so obviously it is hard for the kids to “understand” why we do not stay together.

this is a good thing. If you two can remain civil and friendly (note: I did not say ‘friends’) for the children, you’re miles ahead.

As others have said — don’t co-habit. The kids will be even more confused as to why mum and dad don’t do ‘mum and dad’ things like the others. Why don’t we go out and do family fun stuff together? etc.

You will find it much harder to remain civil under the same roof.

Your kids will get over the initial pain and flourish. They’re pretty tough little things.

[Anonymous 43]

counseling = marriage is over, was over months ago in her mind, and you can’t read her mind.

survival mode. lawyer, now.

[Author]

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