Home › Forums › Philosophy › What the "O" in MGTOW stands for
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alchemist 3 years, 8 months ago.
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I initiated a discussion in another online board and what I explained there was misinterpreted by some, I would like to hear your input on the matter. I won’t take great lenghts as I did to explain the whole thing, instead I will summarize my points.
First of all, MGTOW stands for “Men Going Their Own Way”.
I said that GOW in my mind meant hedonism and relativism. Because we can’t do whatever we feel appropriate, I mean, we can’t be our own masters 100%. We are, much like nature, subjected to laws, for example, you can make a movie where a man breathes in the surface of the Moon, but if you try this in real life, you’ll die.
Obviously we don’t have unlimited free-will, we need to obey certain rules, otherwise there will be chaos, and that chaos in the case of trying to breathe in the Moon is our own demise.
So, instead of considering the “O” as OWN WAY, I think of it as “MEN GOING THE ONLY WAY”. Men going the only way that exists, the right way. It is women in my opinion that go their own way, because they can’t be taught that something is right or wrong, their minds aren’t equipped to deal with reality, and they will always (ALWAYS) do the wrong thing.
Since the men of today are under women’s influence from birth, and that influence has become pervasive, it’s not a surprise that MGTOW would stand for GOING YOUR OWN WAY much like protestants think it’s valid to create 1000 churchs and we have 1000 interpretations of the bible.
Think about it: If I say that 2+2 is 4, it will be 4 here or in the Andromeda Galaxy. You can say that 4-2 = 2 and that will still be 2, right?
The problem with the people of today is that they don’t want to recognize that the end result is 2. They want, each one of them, to assert that 2+2 is = ? meaning that ? is whatever YOU FEEL it is.
And that is what I disagree entirely and repudiate. The truth isn’t bound to human beings, if I die tomorrow the Sun will still rise, even if I convince the world it won’t.
The truth will still be the truth even if no one believes it.
Lies will still be the lies even if everyone believes them.So why we may say that truth isn’t subjective, but moral values ARE SUBJECTIVE? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Sure we have a different set of values here and in the Middle East, but our goal should be to seek a “universal code of ethics”, a system of ethics that can apply to every single person.
Some people argue that ethics is not mathematics, that has a degree of uncertainty like all sciences relating to human behaviour, that there is no moral geometry allowing you to proceed with deductive certainty from pure “data” to moral truths.
What I disagree about this point is that we will never find such data. We need to continue this pursuit, what seems impossible to me is to allow every single person to make their own interpretation, without careful scrutiny, because that will lead to chaos and the same problems we complain about here will be widespread.
Think about it: women in the past had less freedom, abortion was not fully allowed (and in some countries such as U.S. it was only through fraud, see Roe Vs. Wade), we didn’t have no-fault divorce, they couldn’t cast a vote, promiscuous behaviour was not tolerated, etc. Then women started to “go their own way” and what happened? The fall of western society.
If men aren’t told what to do and rebuked for cherishing the wrong things, what do you think is going to happen? And it will happen to all of us, we are not living in a planet far away, isolated from all manginas and psychos.
Don’t take this the wrong way, I just think that self-entitlement is a virus for the mind, that self-absorbed people are diseased, and that the sovereignty wanted by the MGTOW movemement is a result of most members not understanding that we live in a Matrix, and that both men and women can be Matrix agents.
Welcome home brother!
Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.
Just my opinion, but I think you are way over-thinking what MGTOW means to most of us. When you read the boards here, we are talking about going your own way in relationships, work, hobbies. No one here is advocating breaking laws or treating people like s~~~. The men on these boards have some of the best moral compasses I’ve ever seen in my 51 years on this planet.
Just look at what happens when some white knight gets on the website and starts talking about how women should be treated like s~~~. They get SHUT DOWN, and quickly.
The males (that’s for you Keymaster!), I mean MEN on this website talk about learning new languages, traveling, pursuing new careers, and 1,000 other positive aspects of their lives. It is not a hedonistic group of people.
The lesson here is when men have freedom, they generally seek to better themselves. This should be the conclusion you draw from your questions. Now ask yourself what women do with their freedom. The answer should tell you all you need to know about the difference in the sexes.
Order the good wine
Just my opinion, but I think you are way over-thinking what MGTOW means to most of us. When you read the boards here, we are talking about going your own way in relationships, work, hobbies. No one here is advocating breaking laws or treating people like s~~~. The men on these boards have some of the best moral compasses I’ve ever seen in my 51 years on this planet.
Just look at what happens when some white knight gets on the website and starts talking about how women should be treated like s~~~. They get SHUT DOWN, and quickly.
The males (that’s for you Keymaster!), I mean MEN on this website talk about learning new languages, traveling, pursuing new careers, and 1,000 other positive aspects of their lives. It is not a hedonistic group of people.
The lesson here is when men have freedom, they generally seek to better themselves. This should be the conclusion you draw from your questions. Now ask yourself what women do with their freedom. The answer should tell you all you need to know about the difference in the sexes.
I agree with you and I am not advocating that everyone should obey me.
Allow me to explain why the words hedonism and relativism were considered for the “O” definition.
I just want to point out that you CAN (we all can) tell other people what to do if we have considered the pros and cons (aiming for a greater good, not just to fulfill our desires) of what they are doing with their lives – and we do that sort of thing all the time.
It isn’t an aggression, we are not trying to dominate everyone’s minds, we are just stating things as they really are. That’s it.
A user said that I don’t have the right to tell what is right or wrong and that everyone should be entitled to make their own judgment. But ultimately, this isn’t going to work, because the goal is to deconstruct reality. That way, no one understands each other, as if we were never speaking the same language.
For instance, if I say that “A” should have as much sex partners as it pleases that person, I am not interfering with “A”‘s life, however, my inaction to state otherwise will destroy “A” and myself eventually.
Because if you decide to not defend what is good and right (and it needs to be defended ALL THE TIME), if everyone stops doing that, then what is evil will prevail.
Inaction counts in my mind as doing evil.
So what I can do is explain the reasoning behind why being promiscuous is wrong and can lead to things such as STDs. That is the truth of the matter.
I am not attacking the MGTOW movement, only explaining that self-absorbed people are prevalent these days, and you must evaluate if you haven’t become one of them without even realizing.
They feel they can’t be subjected to anything greater than themselves. And you know who profits from instilling these ideas? The very people that tells you that having moral values is foolish and that you should drop all these outdated ideas, and embrace cultural marxism, feminism, all that crap.
All of them politicians that like to see many groups of people fighting each other, so that they can divide and conquer. They don’t care at all about the plight of these so called “minorities”, only use their flags to further their never-ending thirst for power.
… what seems impossible to me is to allow every single person to make their own interpretation, without careful scrutiny, because that will lead to chaos and the same problems we complain about here will be widespread.
About twenty years ago I decided to turn and walk away from pursuing relationships. That’s it; it’s not really any more complicated than that .. I still pay my property and sales taxes, keep a valid fishing and hunting license, carry proof of insurance in my vehicle and basically conform to nearly all those things that I am expected to do in a contemporary functioning society. Going my own way, for me, it’s just about basic freedom and avoiding the emotional and financial difficulties that any relationship or longer term commitment might bring.
Two points: One you said that you think that inaction is evil. So, does that mean that I’m evil if I’m not a SJW? Or is it good enough that the people around me see my example of a happy person who has a moral compass? I would see inaction, or action, as a spectrum. So it’s the level of action that I would question. How much action do think is necessary?
Two: Your point about self-absorbed people. It’s a good point, but everyone is self-absorbed to some extent. You have to be. You have to take care of yourself before you can be there for anyone else. Even the US Constitution states that we have the RIGHT to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I have a right to pursue being happy. Again, this is a spectrum, how self-absorbed you become. To this point I would refer back to my earlier post. The men on this site don’t seem self-absorbed, they are bettering themselves. Women are self-absorbed. Women are takers. Women seek to exploit other people WAY more often than men do.
So, I see MEN going their OWN way as a good thing. Women have been going there OWN way for a long time now. How’s that working out? They are the problem and you asking me why I’m not trying to be part of the solution?
Interesting topic. Thanks for putting it out there.
Order the good wine
yup, going our one way is not going of into a lord of the flies hell on earth fantasy.
nobody here is advocating violence, unlike the feminazi/sjw crowd that either threatens you personaly with violence or uses the violence of the goverment to do it for them.
The whole ideia of existencialism, of nietsche, that if we discart the ideia of a god we will turn into hedonistic, narcisistic animals is wrong.
And the ideia that ethics and morality are relative to a certain culture and time is not going to makes us mgtows vile psychopats running the streets stealing, raping and murdering just because there is no god and no afterlife.
Just my opinion, but I think you are way over-thinking what MGTOW means to most of us. When you read the boards here, we are talking about going your own way in relationships, work, hobbies. No one here is advocating breaking laws or treating people like s~~~. The men on these boards have some of the best moral compasses I’ve ever seen in my 51 years on this planet.
Just look at what happens when some white knight gets on the website and starts talking about how women should be treated like s~~~. They get SHUT DOWN, and quickly.
The males (that’s for you Keymaster!), I mean MEN on this website talk about learning new languages, traveling, pursuing new careers, and 1,000 other positive aspects of their lives. It is not a hedonistic group of people.
The lesson here is when men have freedom, they generally seek to better themselves.
Do you think that some MGTOW members, or those that are claiming to be MGTOW, that advocate for attacking women should be shut down and outcasted? I think they should because that goes against our ultimate goals.
What’s your view on pornography?
I used to watch porn as much as I consumed anything in terms of entertainment, like movies and videogames. Then I realized (after so much things I saw, that was the inevitable outcome) that all of them are devoid of any truth, and are only cheap means to please our senses, but the thing is, our senses usually don’t detect the Matrix traps (falsehoods). Our mind, our intellect, is the only way to do that.
For example, you can’t tell I am a liar by looking at me, or even listening to what I tell you, if you only used your sight, hearing, etc. But you can tell that I am a liar if you thought about invading my privacy in a way (even if it’s just a Google search) and discovering that I am something in public and another in my private life. So you’ll find that I am a hypocrite. Now who instructed you to do such thing? Mere appearances convinced you that I am no good or you decided to become skeptical and realize that you can count on your fingers how many people are not bad as I am? Or maybe you became skilled in non-verbal communication. Either way, you had to use your mind. And you can’t tell anything about the universe if you don’t use instruments that enable your eyes to see distant objects, such as telescopes.
The only means to discover if something is trying to deceive you is a) be skeptical, specially if that “something” is always described as a good thing, and accepted by the majority of people (even if we are talking about men and disregarding women), and b) challenge the very essence of the thing.
Pornography isn’t different from movies or videogames in this way explained by Plato in THE REPUBLIC:
Worse, the images the poets portray do not imitate the good part of the soul. The rational part of the soul is quiet, stable, and not easy to imitate or understand. Poets imitate the worst parts—the inclinations that make characters easily excitable and colorful. Poetry naturally appeals to the worst parts of souls and arouses, nourishes, and strengthens this base elements while diverting energy from the rational part.
Poetry corrupts even the best souls. It deceives us into sympathizing with those who grieve excessively, who lust inappropriately, who laugh at base things. It even goads us into feeling these base emotions vicariously. We think there is no shame in indulging these emotions because we are indulging them with respect to a fictional character and not with respect to our own lives. But the enjoyment we feel in indulging these emotions in other lives is transferred to our own life. Once these parts of ourselves have been nourished and strengthened in this way, they flourish in us when we are dealing with our own lives. Suddenly we have become the grotesque sorts of people we saw on stage or heard about in epic poetry.
The reason all forms of entertainment can be considered base isn’t because they aren’t realistic all the time.
The very reason is because the people that creates them is unaware (or unwilling) to understanding reality in the first place, so that’s precisely why a movie made in 2016 is bound by our current reality and not that of the 1950’s, since everyone involved fails to understand how they can surpass all the conditioning they were imposed since birth. You’ll never watch a movie that is entirely true, even if it’s telling you something you already know. There’s always some inconspicuous thing, some hidden agenda, that you are accepting without questioning.
That’s why for someone like Socrates politicians were imposters, poets didn’t even understand their own poetry and prophets and seers do not understand what they say.
They are all guilty of hubris, pretending to know things they haven’t really cared or weren’t willing to be intrigued about, in any moment of their lives. Socrates used to tear these people apart in his questionings.
In modern times people hate to be questioned, they show their ignorance by wanting to win an argument (winning doesn’t mean the truth will be revealed!) and have their egos massaged. If this isn’t a clear sign of the decay of civilization, I don’t know what else is.
It’s possible to create any form of entertainment hinting at the core of all the truths MGTOWs and others are aware, yet no one wants to rock the boat.
That’s why I advise anyone to get rid of all these shallow instruments from the Matrix. To reduce their influence in your life as much as possible. Whatever is created these days in terms of entertainment not only fails in terms of artistic values, it’s a lot worse than what was done 20, 30 years ago. Everything created now is infected by the feminine mindset. So men are becoming over time more like women, and someday we will not be able to distinguish both. When I say “feminine mind”, remember this can be applied to both men and women.
And things will only get worse.
Once I understood lies such as those:
http://www.salon.com/2014/01/06/10_ways_porn_perpetuates_myths_about_men_partner/That can be applied to every single porn movie (because all of them share the same flaws, are not based on the average joe or women, and trick us in many ways), I felt bored.
Now I can’t jerk off to any of them. And if real life is s.hit, why would I care about a virtual reality that is only being valued in my mind, a form of escapism?
It doesn’t make any sense to turn my life into a lie. Someday, you’ll realize all of this, too.
Who watches TV these days, and worse, find the lies concocted by the media convincing? Buy newspapers? I only use the internet, and not even the WWW can be trusted, only a few companies and families controlling what you can read, know, how to think, behave…
As for videogames, I haven’t been playing any of them for many years. Sure a few I still think remain the best ever made, however I would like to see something like this for a change:
No one will do it. Now ask yourself why the creators of this video felt the need to disable comments in that page (only there) and at the same time create further “stages” in a pathetic attempt to disguise the strong disapproval they received for… telling that women are materialistic. Men cannot aford to admit anything.
When it comes to porn, now I ask myself “are these people really enjoying?” Should I feel excited about a woman that in real life isn’t even pretty without all the makeup and that hits the wall very quickly? Doesn’t bother me that they have no personality/strong moral values? Doesn’t bother me that they are always faking?
There are countless questions one should ask to find out the nature of porn movies (a few I didn’t even know until now) and the people involved in it. If you are asking me: should porn be banned?
Yes and no, because this is the same as telling it’s a sin to have sex without marrying and never explaining why things are sin in the first place.
If it’s banned, then the number of manginas will increase and men will subject themselves more to the needs of women. Like The Prohibition in the U.S. in the 1920’s. What actually did was to increase the power of the likes of Al Capone and made things worse. So that means everyone should drink to death? I could make an argument that crime is rampant these days, so why bother punishing criminals?
No one gives a reason for admonishing that we should act otherwise, and you can’t be good if there’s no evil in the world for you to tell which is which. With that in mind, if the evil in the world is so pervasive, liberating and prohibiting things are two sides of the same coin. Both sides are not thinking straight.
Do you want to start asking the right questions or act like an automaton, that only do things based on your own whims?
So why we may say that truth isn’t subjective, but moral values ARE SUBJECTIVE? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Sure we have a different set of values here and in the Middle East, but our goal should be to seek a “universal code of ethics”, a system of ethics that can apply to every single person.
In response to your post entire….it may be better to think of it in terms of ABSOLUTE TRUTH vs. RELATIVE TRUTH.
For example: Just because something is legal – doesn’t make it right.
Paternity fraud is “legal”, but is it morally right? Is it right on any level? It is absolutely wrong, and it’s right there in the name. It is “fraud”. And its not debatable. But there are those people who THINK it is their “right” and not wrong at all. Deep down, they know that it’s totally wrong – because absolute truth does not lie or waver. But because it’s “not illegal”, too many women think it is relatively OK to try and get away with it. They don’t even think they should be punished for it or apologize.
This is a woman actually JUSTIFYING it. Tom Leykis (the radio host) is governed by absolute truth – right vs wrong – where as the woman thinks she is perfectly within her rights.
An elaborate essay on ABSOLUTE TRUTH vs. RELATIVE TRUTH by MGHOW Rob Fedders (below).
So, instead of considering the “O” as OWN WAY, I think of it as “MEN GOING THE ONLY WAY”.
This is about as far as you can go with that without coming off as “dictatorial” because it’s based in absolute truth. But it is completely “relative” what you think the “only way” for men to go might be.
That’s why it’s called “Men Going Their Own Way”.
The “O” stands for “OWN” because the choice is your “own”. The choice to not follow the herd MUST be your own, because the herd would rather your didn’t make that choice.
“ONLY” would imply that you don’t have a choice. But you do. You can choose to go with the herd and live by those values, or you can choose to stand on your “OWN” and establish your “OWN”.
Obviously we don’t have unlimited free-will,
Nobody does, because there are absolute laws of nature (right and wrong) that are unwavering and prevent you from doing whatever you want. There are also relative laws in place that prevent it as well. Unlimited free will is not good for you (each person) either.
Animals are also governed by laws of nature. But they are also born with a sense of right and wrong. Dogs know that it is absolutely wrong to beat a child. They are born with these laws too.
Even Adam (the first man) had free reign over everything. Except one.
Do not eat apples from that tree!ABSOLUTE TRUTH VS RELATIVE TRUTH
I think there is something very fundamental about Absolute Truth over Relative Truth which is the very basic to the nature of humans… that which separates humans from animal living and allows us to rise up from being beasts of the field.
Of course, the “tool” which humans have been given by God or by Nature – our equivalent to which every animal has been give his specialty (elephants have tusks, giraffes have long necks) – is our ability to choose, and of course, along with the ability to choose necessarily comes the ability to question. And in order to go from question to choosing an answer, there is the necessity to rationalize. Virtually all of human power resides in this feature. These are things humans can do which no other animal can do. Everything else works on pure instincts.
But…
This power we have to choose is like all power – it has the potential to be dangerous as much as it has the potential to be beneficial. I think the concept of “power needing to be tempered” before it becomes something useful certainly makes sense. And so it is that our human mental abilities need to tempered, or perhaps a better phrase is “anchored to reality,” or else we humans also have the ability to “think” ourselves right off the rails and into la-la land. We humans kinda have a lemming feature built into us where we “think ourselves to death.”
In fact, this is the story of the Garden of Eden in a nutshell: It is a story of the battle of Absolute Truth vs. Relative Truth, and the danger of what happens by placing the Relative Truth higher in importance than the Absolute Truth. It is a story about humankind’s ability to bend the truth to over-ride reality… often with dire consequences.
There was only one rule in the Garden… DON’T EAT FROM THAT TREE! There was only one truth that Adam and Eve had to follow… and here is where it gets interesting, because Eve was deceived but she was not particularly lied to. In fact, the serpent’s assertions are perfectly valid, although very craftily worded:
The serpent was right when he says “you will not surely die.” (He was right, they did not surely die… After being tossed from the Garden, God offered them a path to salvation and eternal life – if they chose to follow God’s path).
The serpent was right, when they ate the fruit, their eyes were opened, and they did become like God and gain knowledge of good and evil.
And then Eve’s female rationalizing hamster wheel starts churning, mired in Relative Truth.
“When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.”
Because it was good for food, pleasing to look at, and desirable for gaining wisdom… Eve rationalized to herself why the Relative Truth which she wished for ought to be able to over-ride the Absolute Truth that existed.
( THOUGHT INSERT: Could placing the Relative Truth we create in our brains over the Absolute Truth that exists in reality be the “original sin?” )
Also to note here in the Garden story is the difference between men and women, and something we also often speak of in the Manosphere: Adam, the mangina, simply went along with her.
1 Timothy 2:12-14 RSV “I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.”
Adam was not deceived. He sinned willingly. Eve deceived herself with her female driven hamster-wheel of relative-truth laden brain… but Adam was not deceived at all. He was standing right there and was not deceived; Eve gave it to him, and he was still without sin at this point. But like a mangina eager to please, he said, “sure thing, Toots!” and swallowed ‘er down whole.
Adam sinned willingly, but Eve was deceived.
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’…” (Man’s Curse)
It’s pretty clear.
Between Adam and Eve, God expects a different level of cognition… God expected Adam to “know better” than Eve… because Adam has the capability to know better.
Of all of the things that were in the world during the Garden, the only thing not directly from God… is Eve. She was created from Adam, who was created in God’s image. Adam is copy of God, and Eve is a copy of Adam… Adam is “one step closer” to God/Absolute Truth than Eve is.
And, when regarding how male and female brains “work” in order to ascertain “truth,” this holds true – men and women “find truth” in different ways. G.W.F. Hegel describes the phenomenon in the following way:
“… Women may have happy ideas, taste, and can be more elegant, but they cannot attain to the ideal. The difference between men and women is like that between animals and plants. Men correspond to animals, while women correspond to plants because their development is more placid and the principle that underlies it is the rather vague unity of feeling. When women hold the helm of government, the state is at once in jeopardy, because women regulate their actions not by the demands of universality but by arbitrary inclinations and opinions. Women are educated–who knows how?” — G.F. Hegel
Women, because they are herd creatures by nature, find Truth by consensus among the herd. If the herd thinks 1 + 1 = 3, then it is right, because the herd says so. Tomorrow, if the herd thinks 1 + 1 = 1, then that will be right, because the herd says so. The herd is always right. This is why women are more attuned to fashion, which is forever changing, and it is the underlying cause of the phenomenon in Game known as “Social Proofing.” Women believe a man is sexually valuable because the rest of the women around her find him sexually valuable – not because of any particular iron clad attributes or principles mind you – but simply because all the other women believe a guy is hot, so will the next woman believe it as well. The herd’s consensus is what is right, and it is subject only to itself.
You can see this all through females’ nature, in that right down to even their genetic make-up, they huddle around the average/mean in far greater concentration than males, who exist outside the herd and exists in the outer extremes of averages. ie. There are more males than females with an IQ of 140, but there are also more males than females with an IQ below 70. The males are on “the outside of the herd” and the females ARE “the average,” or, they are all clustered around the average. (Heh, this even goes into female psychology, where far fewer females desire to truly stand out from the norm – in areas such as company CEO – than men do – and the differences are significant!).
In this way, it will always be males, in the aggregate, that are better equipped to “find Absolute Truth.”
“…while I was still searching but not finding – I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.” — Ecclesiastes 7:28
It will be the males who will — like an angry MGHOW — declare: “BULLS~~~! 1 + 1 = 2!!! I don’t care what you say, I don’t care if all you cows believe 1 + 1 = 2.5, I will refuse to comply with you because, dammit, 1 + 1 = 2!
In this way, it is important for the male principle to lead the female principle, because the male principle is closer to Absolute Truth than the female principle. The female principle is almost pure Relative Truth. Now, the male principle has relative truth in it too – lots of it! Look at all the manginas out there! Men desire to follow women’s Relative Truths because that is what we would do if we behave like animals, driven by our baser instincts. But man’s mind is better equipped to discover Absolute Truth than the female’s, and thus, having men/the male principle leading a society will lead to that society following much closer to Absolute Truth… a much safer place to exist than a world full of Relative Truth, where nothing stays real.
“Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you…” Because you listened to your wife’s Relative Truths… you were cursed, Adam.
You should have held true to the Absolute Truth, and all would have been fine. Even after she had already bogged herself down with her Relative Truths, Adam should have been a MGHOW and stuck to his principles based upon Absolute Truth. All would have worked out fine for him.
“It was Eve who seduced the man – in compensation there is no undertaking more appealing to a woman than to become loved by someone who has gone astray and who now, in loving her, will let himself be led along the right path. This appeals to a woman so much that she is not infrequently deceived, because such a person puts everything over on her – and she believes everything – perhaps also because the thought of being the man’s savior is so very satisfying to her. “
— Woman/Man – from Kierkegaard’s JournalsIf you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
Anonymous42Going my “own” way, where I “own” myself. Self majesty.
No one will treat you better than you can treat yourself, nature does not intend that I be herded in a gynocentric drove. Freedom is independence from each other, not conscripted servitude to each other.
O is for the big O as in your OWN way. what you want, what you think is best.
OWN as in your personal OWNership.
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Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.
Two points: One you said that you think that inaction is evil. So, does that mean that I’m evil if I’m not a SJW? Or is it good enough that the people around me see my example of a happy person who has a moral compass? I would see inaction, or action, as a spectrum. So it’s the level of action that I would question. How much action do think is necessary?
My two cents:
If the opportunity presents, then you should indeed act. You are already acting if you defend good moral values, because no one else does that. By not defending them, you agree with the opposite they stand for. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”.
So by saying “I couldn’t care less what others do with their lives, it’s their right to decide” means the same as “the world can burn, I will not be affected”.
First of all, it’s not only a lack of empathy from the part of the man who says we have the right to do anything (what things? if some yes and others no, then we don’t have total rights and we need to be lectured), it’s a statement devoid of any logic.
These people never heard the expression “butterfly effect”. Whatever others decide to do tomorrow will hit us and when the world we live in collapses, it will be our fault, too.
And you are acting if you have a chance to help someone and do that in the way you want, not being forced or shamed to do.
When it comes to doing anything for society, I always follow my golden rule, my “Star Trek Prime Directive”, of never interfering actively in the lives of those who are less fortunate than me.
The best ruler is the one that doesn’t want to rule over others (that’s why “philosophers should be kings”) and that lets the world run its own course. The best moderator from an online board is the one that does not want to censor you all the time (which it would mean he is imposing his own truth, that might not be real truth of the matter) and only appears when it’s really necessary. He might even be active, but doesn’t want to show off.
Haven’t you noticed that supporters of revolutionary ideas always want to improve the world and will do anything despicable to achieve this wish that they know it will never be fulfilled? It’s a promise that they know to be a lie.
They are the ones who want to destroy our individuality, to force us to adopt their filth ideas, without even becoming aware of their intentions. And for the latter to happen, these agendas need to appear to be morally correct.
They are anything but good, for example: when a director like J. J. Abrams says that women should get more main roles (and blacks, which he calls “people of color”, an expression I thought it was forgotten in the last 5 decades), that Hollywood is filled with “white males” he is being a misanthrope, if I were to summarize what means to be a racist against anyone and misandric/mysoginistic at the same time.
It’s interesting the fact that in the Star Wars movie he pictured men as we are used to see in modern times, as bumbling fools that can be discarded and have no masculinity traits, no redeeming values (even Han Solo). The woman was a Mary Sue, the black guy was a coward without the same charisma from the previous black actors from the same SW franchise and many others from Hollywood movies.
So this isn’t about giving anyone an equal chance, it is about deconstructing reality to serve their sick agendas, to paint the world as a bleak, miserable, despairing, angry and confused place.
Women never needed to have unrealistic traits in the screen and in the past both sexes were perfectly represented and were both ideal (nonetheless, realistic) versions of all of us with the same chances in all stories.
However, now the Disney lie is not for the men to conquer some princess, it is for the princess to be all-powerful, better than God if they want, while in real life women are not highly skilled (being lazy as they are), and are always leeching the world built by men.
So what was already a lie in the past has become a schizophrenic lie, a propaganda piece. Ask yourself why no one creates romantic comedies these days. Even back in the day, movies such as “When Harry Met Sally” were unrealistic.
It tested credibility back then but before the internet you thought you were the only dweeb not getting laid.
Like two people meeting each other not on a dating site or a bar/hookup and the woman is not incredibly fat with 2 kids from different fathers. And a guy walking up to a girl and she’s not staring at her phone like a zombie – and he’s not too busy staring at his phone to notice her.
Imagine her phone rings and she runs off after the third stupid thing he says.
Nobody from this generation would buy this kind of movie. Yet SW is considered a success. By whom? Braindead critics and fans.
The way the SJWs act is by pretending to do justice, and care about the rights of everyone, when in fact, they want to be rewarded (or gain power) without being questioned. The minute you question their ideas and intentions, the minute you start looking behind mere appearances, everything is revealed.
They don’t care if their actions or ideas don’t make any sense, I would even say they know that all of them don’t, they use meaningless words and spread their vicious thoughts with no regard for logic.
To embrace anything first you need to understand its essence. You can’t defend men’s rights if you don’t know what a man is (and a woman, obviously).
If someone doesn’t have any idea that men can have a feminine mind, and what it means to have a masculine or feminine mindset, then what is that person going to do if tomorrow all men become carbon copies of women?
Anyway, this interfering I see as a form of pampering those people, because you can only evolve by your own efforts, not acting like a parasite. So the less interference (specially from the State), the better. No more “bread and circuses”, no more trying to change the world into a better place by crushing fundamental values.
If I decide to not act all the time that doesn’t mean I am guilty of moral laziness, only that I value ideas over people, and yes, we need to become avatars of all that is good and right. A person doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things if it doesn’t “relinquish itself” to these ideas.
In other words, if you know some things are true such as the Sun will rise tomorrow and ALL women are materialistic, if you refuse to accept these two things your entire life, you are just another Matrix agent, another automaton.
Two: Your point about self-absorbed people. It’s a good point, but everyone is self-absorbed to some extent. You have to be. You have to take care of yourself before you can be there for anyone else. Even the US Constitution states that we have the RIGHT to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I have a right to pursue being happy. Again, this is a spectrum, how self-absorbed you become. To this point I would refer back to my earlier post. The men on this site don’t seem self-absorbed, they are bettering themselves. Women are self-absorbed. Women are takers. Women seek to exploit other people WAY more often than men do.
So, I see MEN going their OWN way as a good thing. Women have been going there OWN way for a long time now. How’s that working out? They are the problem and you asking me why I’m not trying to be part of the solution?
Interesting topic. Thanks for putting it out there.
I loathe people who defend the State’s interests at all cost.
“The larger the group, the more toxic, the more of your beauty as an individual you have to surrender for the sake of group thought. And when you suspend your individual beauty you also give up a lot of your humanity. You will do things in the name of a group that you would never do on your own. Injuring, hurting, killing, drinking are all part of it, because you’ve lost your identity, because you now owe your allegiance to this thing that’s bigger than you are and that controls you.” (George Carlin)
The only allegiance we should have is with the truth. It is there, and if we want to find it, we will, eventually. Use your mind, continue to gather more data/facts, and look for ulterior motives. Every. single. time.
Should we try to avoid it to funnel our resolve into more productive things?
The short answer this time.
A man can’t serve two masters. If you tend to your mind/soul, then you can’t become at the same time a slave to your base desires.
The more you concentrate your efforts into one, the less influence the other will have in your life.
Over time, after I realized so much, I can’t even have the necessary will to jerk off, and has avoided for the last 4 months. So it’s not just porn that you should be concerned.
There was a time when I could feel excited for little things and many others (not only including women and sex), however, eventually, I started uncovering many inconvenient truths about my “objects of desire” and boredom and indifference were the inevitable result of such discoveries.
It’s all in your mind. And since it’s not real, you can’t live a lie for the rest of your life. No one can.
All of this is in the past, and to be quite honest, now I feel more invigorated than ever, and yes, doing not only productive things, also discovering whatever the universe and real life has to offer. Curiosity is my best trait.
I won’t say I don’t like women and if the opportunity presents I won’t bang one or that sort of thing, what I am saying is that this isn’t even in a compiled list of possible priorities. And contrary to others, I don’t accept anything at face value anymore. And we always do that with our fantasies, we always resort to escapism.
These days are over for me.
So if I see something and know that is not good, I won’t betray my conscience. Ever since I was a child I always thought women aren’t interesting and shouldn’t be seen as objects of pursuit, and if I were to be coherent, it’s because of manginas who always see them as prizes, that they are spoiled and many other things we see them to be.
The only winning move is not to play. And let’s be honest, if you can’t switch off things like porn, then what kind of man are you?
For me, a weakling. Women always say they can’t help doing s~~~, even though their emotions are always faked, and we will start giving the same responses now, too?
No way, just take control of your life.
NOW.
Porn is great. All real men jerk off about once a day a love it. It’s not a second master. No more than s~~~ting is.
Did you stop s~~~ting so s~~~ting isn’t your master.
Go away, jihadi Johnny.
It stops to be “great” when you can’t distinguish both acts. It happens with me now. How can I feel excited when I know that porn I am watching is 100% faked and women are no good?
And you can live without masturbation, but can’t live without s~~~ting.
However, if I had the chance to get rid of both, I would.
You do the latter because you must, you do the former because you think that will improve something.
That’s a huge difference.
It won’t do you any good, just like using drugs, drinking to death…
All of these vices are only appeasements for the soul, and the irony is that they are anything but that. The more you indulge yourself in them, the more subservient you become.
If you can’t turn it off, it is an addiction. Simple as that.
It is harmful even if you can turn it off, then why not stop for good? It takes a strong mind to say NO to your own whims.
I can close a book if I see the author is trying to f~~~ with me by instilling lies. And I won’t read the same sort of stuff if I see miles away it’s bad for me, or making me waste time.
But you can’t stop jerking off because women are omnipresent.
Right… I see.
OK, so it’s time for me, then, to have a mental breakdown, by the same logic, because this world is also filled with ignorants and their deceptions.
Everywhere I look, both are present…
I have no clue what to think of the OP’s posts, but I can tell you he’s focusing too much on letters.
The only thing MGTOW advocates is that we should avoid any long-term relations~~~s and cohabitation with women. Other than that, you’re free to do as you please.
And for me, MGTOW has also taught me to be indifferent to anything negative to my well being.
For example, I don’t give a s~~~ if blue pillers call me gay since I’m celibate. Being indifferent to that actually helps with your mental health far more than giving a s~~~ what others think of you.
It stops to be “great” when you can’t distinguish both acts. It happens with me now. How can I feel excited when I know that porn I am watching is 100% faked and women are no good?
Also, I mainly watch hentai. So all the porn I watch is 100% fake since they’re cartoons. Much better than even amature porn in my opinion.
Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius
the O stands for your OWN way.
my way works for me,
i’m not judging anybody else and want not to be judged likewise.
this appears to be a GIANT overthink.
it’s not that complicated.why re-invent the wheel when you already know what the O stands for.
sounds preachy,
if i want a sermon i’ll go to church.I actually think the periodic buildup and release of sex energy KEEPS A MAN VITAL AND HEALTHY. Those trying to denigrate or deny a man this healthful practice is harming that man. Life is not a dichotomy of the lowly flesh and higher mind. That is satanic dualism.
Oh, but there is a dichotomy:
You are defending a lowly existence (materialism) instead of a spiritual one, the only reasonable choice that can give you more than ephemeral and always illusory physical well-being. It’s women who opt for the latter and convinced you that you should do the same. A woman cannot be an intelectual being because their minds are not equipped like ours for such heights. Philosophy does not suit them.
It’s funny that you mention satanism, because this is what atheists (which are also notorious materialists) are. I am an agnostic-theist, so I don’t believe 100% there is a God and I am not fully convinced there isn’t either, I hear both sides of the argument, but one day if I were to expect something, it would be to find out that there is a God. I will never root for atheism.
I have no respect for believers and atheists because they stopped asking questions and only want to impose their dogma. And over time I discovered most atheists lack moral values, like Richard Dawkins, that even made fun of the possibility of men’s movements.
He advocates for things such as abortion, animal/gay rights, the already mentioned feminism and has shallow political views. I am sure there are a lot more intelligent and even well-intentioned atheists out there, however these people are guilty, if not of supporting cultural marxism, political correctness or whatever, of being materialistic. Both sides are fanatic in their own ways, and we always need to detach ourselves from a lifestyle, once we know that our life as been a lie and what we fight for isn’t right.
In your case, I suggest that you read this Plato dialogue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhaedoOnly after you finish it you’ll understand where I am coming from when I say that you should stop concentrating your efforts in what your senses are telling you to do.
We all lived in certain ways, however in a man’s life there’s always a moment when he ponders whether he should continue doing or valuing some things he always did. And I am doing this for years, there’s no turning back for me now.
the O stands for your OWN way.
my way works for me,
i’m not judging anybody else and want not to be judged likewise.
this appears to be a GIANT overthink.
it’s not that complicated.why re-invent the wheel when you already know what the O stands for.
sounds preachy,
if i want a sermon i’ll go to church.I am not overthinking. I am sure when someone coined the term “MGTOW”, the intention was to discuss what is the best way to live, what you can do to fight the forces that are trying to oppress you. There has to be a reason for these communities to exist, and they all share the same goal.
I don’t think that we are here only concerned about trivial matters. Meaning whatever thread is created or experience posted, everyone comes from the same “place” – the same reasons.
Still there is an unique reality that gives birth to MGTOW and related.
So, if that’s the case, then you will have to agree with me that this can’t be a democracy where everyone speaks his own language and “goes his own way”. No, I am not taking the meaning of “going your own way” literally – all I am saying is that morality is objective, and it isn’t feasible to create an individual reality for every single member, in which they can make adjustments to fit their desires.
I am going my own way if I decide to do evil instead of good, and vice-versa.
This is the choice we have.
There isn’t a third choice. That’s my point. We don’t have a choice if you are given 2, 3 or 100 alternatives. We cannot decide to sit idly and do nothing as much as we can’t jump without calculating if we are going to fail.
If we can’t, then it makes perfect sense to rephrase MGTOW into “Men Going The Only Way” and hinting “right way”.
And if we are to recognize that there is good and evil, we can’t side ourselves with evil people.
We need to take a stance to avoid any possible corruption of mind. If you have a friend that is totally against whatever you value here, why do you keep this friendship? Do you value that person more than ideas?
We can’t say at the same time AWALT and NAWALT. Either women are all the same way, or they aren’t. Men can be influenced by women and behave like them.
Women can’t be like men. EVER.
If you think NAWALT, then the burden of proof is yours. The advocates of AWALT at this point don’t have to prove anything. I don’t need to prove to you that women are embodiments of illusions. That they believe their own lies because they aren’t conscious in the same way as we of them.
Femininity and masculinity need not have anything to do with what sex you are. These concepts are related to the quality of mind. You can’t turn a woman masculine anymore than you can make your dog sing an opera.
A reality where no one reaches a consensus is to me a deceptive one. And only benefits the supporters of the NAWALT argument.
Imagine that you are walking in the street and someone drops 100 $. You have 3 choices: you can hide in your wallet; you can return to the owner, if possible – if not, then there’s no harm, assuming there’s no official way to do it, and you couldn’t reach that person at all; or you can DO NOTHING, so someone else will, and keep the money.
Option a) is like saying 100-100 = 100 (wrong),
b) that 100 – 100 = 0 (correct), and
c) 100 – 100 = -100. I can tell that your inaction was not an evil act, if in your mind you didn’t know the owner of the 100 $ would starve to death without the cash.
And if you didn’t see anyone picking the money immediately after the fact.
You simply decided not to act, and we couldn’t do it all the time, as much as we wanted. Not even a Superman character, if existed, would be able to save every single human.
It might even be argued to be correct to keep someone’s money if you knew that money would be used to buy drugs or that sort of thing. The problem with this reasoning is that we can never assume everyone is filled with good intentions, and that would entail we only exist to serve these ideals, not to imbue them in our hearts. The consequence is the rise of the SJW’s, which act without thinking. We have to think first and act later.
And this is also direct interfering, which I said to be unwise before, because mostly makes the other person believes the world OWES THEM something, hindering their own will to act and better themselves.
We could, however, act preemptively and the money would never reach the drug-addict in the first place.
If there is a God it would make sense that there is evil in the world because if there wasn’t any sign of it, then we would never differentiate between a good and evil action and if there was no death, there would be no life either.
In other words, the universe as we know it with its laws of physics would not even exist, it would be static and meaningless.
Our mind is what we need to provide us with the means to discover what the good life is and the greater good that will make the world a better place for everyone. When there’s sufficient evidence that something is valid/right, you need to stick with it while remaining skeptical, until there’s proof you should drop it.
Or you could just adopt No F~~~s Given and continue going your own way. Debating the ‘O’ and fighting for a
lostcause is just wasting your time. Let the fire burn itself out. We don’t have to reach a consensus on the ‘Evil Feminist System’ – we just stop feeding the fire.Debating what Evil is is open to the context and IMAO just not worth serious thought. I remember reading about some American Indian Elders that made decisions based on what the outcome would be in seven generations time. Now that would prevent a lot of s~~~ hitting the fan.
You appear to be advocating we band together and take a moral stance (morals are relative and subjective rather than absolute) to fight for the Good. I hear the plantation siren calling for the workers to return to the cotton fields.
Thanks for the signpost, but I’m going in another direction.
If you want me to be more precise, moral values are subjective and restricted to what society dictates, they are not universal, obviously, because if they were, then all countries and cultures would value the same things. What is right for me or all of us here may be considered despicable for many others.
The debate that decides which one (or group) is right is the one concerned with ethics, that aim to be universal. If it’s not a mere trend, then it’s objective and saying that there is no truth, it’s all what one’s mind feels it is, should be avoided.
I don’t have to tell you what you should do in your life, because eventually you’ll know the right path. We all realized there was something wrong, and that’s why we are here.
What you must never forget is that women love to create excuses to justify their inability to stick with principles, they are fickle, so don’t expect them to be idealistic. They will fight for a cause as long as it suits them, for bad reasons.
They will twist these values to suit their needs, so relativism is not off the table for the rationalization hamster.
I am sure there are many contexts (sometimes killing isn’t wrong, such as in a life and death situation, in self-defense when there’s no choice), but after careful consideration a consensus may be reached for many things.
And yeah, I am advocating that we need to take a moral stance. I don’t see any problem with that. I am not talking about actively doing that, only knowing where we stand.
For example, do you keep company with people who are 100% the opposite of you, that would spit in your face if knew the things you post? Do you support companies that lie and promote bad things because you want or you’re too lazy to stop financing them?
Honestly I couldn’t care less about convincing others or acting to change anything, for me there are only few people or things worth my efforts in this world. What I am not going to do anymore is to accept whatever BS I have been submitted all these years.
From my previous posts you can tell I don’t waste more time with entertainment stuff. It stopped being amusing once I knew from where most of them came from. So my best advice is not to play the SJW, instead try to detach yourself from the bad stuff and try to look for answers or a better way to spend your time.
Right now I am only wasting mine studying, reading books or that sort of thing. Now I can really tell that I am going my own way, and I am doing because I know better.
Most men who end up visiting MGTOW communities, make no mistake, only want to use them as excuses for going back somehow to the same things.
This other online board I mentioned in the 1st post is a perfect example of how an idea such as MGTOW can be great in theory but in practice another thing entirely different.
The members there claim to be men, but cannot even discuss philosophically without spewing the same predictable responses that only women would give me.
And when I say that the men of this generation are in their minds more similar to women than all women could ever dream, they take offense because they don’t know how a masculine mind really works.
I guess they think that being man only means having a penis. Yep, that’s about all the dimwits know. And no, it’s a conspiracy theory or shaming tactic to state the obvious fact that women influence what we think or do all the time.
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