What is MGTOW? Answers: Philosophy and the Why. Basic Stardusk/Barbarossa

[Gravel PitParticipant]

For new people who stumble onto “MGTOW” you have likely already been polluted by a dozen different YouTube channels and have no idea what MGTOW is, why it is, and what it is. It’s asking for a miracle, for you to find this thread but here it is anyway.

Beyond the standard MGTOW.com definition, there is more to it.

Here the MGTOW.com definition which is fine and dandy:
Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else.

That’s great. For anyone needing more of a philosophical explanation about what is going on between men and women, I HIGHLY recommend hearing out the entire Stardusk Compilation. I’m sorry its 6 hours long but if there was ever one single MGTOW sandwich you could eat and be good, then this is it, the SOURCE code of MGTOW, along with some Barbarossa content. These two effectively kick-started the MODERN mgtow interest.

Stardusk Compilation (Thinking Ape)

Follow it up with this: Barbarossa

There are hundreds of other mgtow channels; some were instrumental in the formation of MODERN mgtow. Many of the producers moved on or seldom add content. Ask around here for additional seed content. We’re talking about the raw, pulp content…not all the new, fun mgtow channels that watered down the message or just rehashed old content. Yes, we still love those channels but if you’re new to mgtow, you need to know about certain content creators that came first, IN MY OPINION.

Below are some of MY favs. Some lost/deleted Messenger Rising *Fake Pregnancy: Serious Advice(edited to remove names) Some Spetsnaz Some Colttaine Some lost/forgotten ManWomanMyth

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP_5UYemwT2k_xJHTc-PARg

Any questions, just ask, there is more…..

[Gravel PitParticipant]

(I post this every now and then, I wrote it a few years back)

Men Going Their Own Way

Credit to Stardusk (Thinking Ape) and Barbarossa for concepts herein
Hypergamy: Women are the limiting factor in reproduction.

If the population of women were suddenly decreased, we could face extinction due to the 9 month cycle women need to reproduce humans. If the numbers of men depleted in masse, we would not face this same threat of extinction. Because of the unique physical demand and time consuming burden that women face in reproduction, evolution in our species took a course to correct for the vulnerability of our survival. It’s evident that evolutionary biology played a role in shaping human psychology differently for each sex, so that females would be naturally favored as to ensure our survival. It stands to reason that hominids would not have survived if they weren’t looking after their weaker sex that was vulnerable during their 9 month reproduction cycles. It’s key to remember this helped hominids survive for millions of years.

Due to this evolved psychological survival mechanism, we can see that modern men to a fault, driven by a profound expression of ‘love,’ seek to protect and provide for women. This goes beyond the desire for sex, a survival tool itself. Men harbor naturally selected evo-psych traits to safeguard the species by protecting women who are a weak link in the species because they require considerable time to make new humans and can’t defend themselves well. Females on the other hand, have an equally powerful instinct driving their behavior which seeks to secure provisions and safety at all costs for themselves and their offspring.

We call this instinct in women, hypergamy. For millions of years it was crucial to our survival, but in a modern framework it causes extraordinary distress for men and society. It could be argued that the invention of marriage was an attempt to correct for hypergamy which plays out in a variety of ways that wreak havoc on social bonds between women and men. Also of note here, is that hypergamy is the reason why women show own group preference. Men do not have this natural urge to favor their own; they always favor women and children instead thus ensuring the survival of the species—evolutionary psychology.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. A common rebuttal used to deny the hypergamous nature of women. Nawalt is also referred to as a single woman who is somehow an exception to the rule. (The exception proves the rule, that is, the exception proves that nearly all women are like that).

It’s clear that the Nawalt argument is a deflection. To say that “not all women are like that” does nothing to explain why 99.99% of them are like that. The nawalt deflection excuses women from all responsibility and explains nothing. We know that hypergamy is instinctive and is thus engrained in out genetics. It’s obvious that AWALT, All Women Are Like That.

Rebuttal against MGTOW:

“So if hypergamy is a fact, don’t men have a natural role to look after women? After all, we’re literally the only thing they’ve got, and we’re perfectly evolved to help them, and our species’ survival depends on male disposability, like it or not. It’s our job.”

Response to Rebuttal:

Hypergamy isn’t the exclusive reason why the Men Going Their Own Way opt out of interaction with women, but they would be entirely justified in using that as the only reason. After all, hypergamy is a stamp of our lowly origin. In modern life, it no longer serves humanity but impedes it. Because of hypergamy, men are not valued for their personhood and they are treated like a commodity. This occurs on an individual level and on a societal level. Some men, for their own reasons, won’t chase women. But mgtow is nothing new, there has always been, and always will be, a minority of men who conclude that the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. Some historical mgtow simply had better things to do, like inventing calculus.

But does MGTOW need justification? Men built the world and are autonomous beings with emotions, interests, intellect and superiority; we call the shots and can opt out without any reason at all—who can stop us? We also know that MGTOW, as a lifestyle choice could never go main-stream, not because the position isn’t logical (it’s excessively logical) but because the sexual libido of men in general, is so great, most men will never go their own way. Most men will gladly continue dancing no matter how risky or demeaning the stakes are, driven by sexual lust too pulp to ignore.
MGTOW have no obligation to justify their exit but we can detect a great number of socio-economic and governing problems that would legitimize their choice anyway. Hypergamy itself, instinctively played out in modern society is reason enough to walk away. Let’s explore some of the main Manosphere grievances that surface frequently amongst Men’s Rights Activists. Some of these are direct manifestations of hypergamy.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

The MRA’s Grievances

Besides 3 toxic waves of malingering feminism, the MRA is furious over: bias in divorce courts giving women custody of children, the welfare state, abortion, women receiving lighter criminal sentencing, no fault divorce, alimony, child support, affirmative action, circumcision, paternal rights, lack of male contraceptive pill, domestic violence and rape accusation, maladaptive breeding, biased cancer funding, excessive female healthcare funding, schooling structure and unaddressed male suicide numbers which are huge. The list goes on and on. The disadvantages that men and boys face are astounding.

Naturally, men have no own group preference. Instead they instinctively care for female well-being. In a parallel interest, women do have an own group preference (hypergamy); the combined effect is an echo chamber of how women are being oppressed. It’s deafening and totally untrue. Both males and females created the misandric culture we live in. The reality is women have more perks than ever before and have queened themselves out of the sexual market place.

It should be noted that MGTOW argue that no amount of legislation or repealing of misandric laws are going to clear the water enough for them to re-emerge, ready to engage women. The last several decades of advances in medicine (abortion and the pill) coupled with social activism on the part of feminists, has crippled the dating pool as to make nearly all women mentally unsuitable for mating.

What this means is, physically; scores of women are used goods due to abortion, the pill, numbers of sexual partners and single motherhood. Mentally; women are brainwashed with a myriad of feminist memes going back over 25 years (2017). Thus, the dating pool (women) is poisoned and not worth entering. We know that Traditionalism is as equally poisonous to men as the recent decades of Feminism and memetic misandry. The better future that mgtow envision is lifetimes away, hence they tapped out for this one. There is no clean-up crew that can fix this train wreck, least not in the foreseeable future. This goes without mentioning maladaptive reproduction which is frankly depressing.

Much could be said about sociological factors and evolutionary psychology as it relates to the dating scene. Women are naturally, anti-monogamous. They want men to commit to females while said females keep their options open. In a rat race to find the most lucrative provisional resource, women will jump ship or carry multiple interests simultaneously. This is hypergamy in action. The men, blinded by sexual desire are all at once, both succumbing to the illusory benefit of recreational sex and also lamenting the rarity of suitable long term partners (saying nothing of fear of divorce, false criminal accusation and state enforced financial slavery). In an age where women have every legal advantage of the law, and divorce is virtually a guarantee, men are opting out of marriage and procreation. They’re opting out of servitude.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Can we Reverse the Sexodus?

Irresponsible use of scientific advancements could be argued to have led to the ‘sinking Titanic’ we’re currently on. Perhaps more advancement, such as artificial wombs and a male contraceptive pill can save us. A plummeting birth rate is unavoidable in industrial nations so giving men some leverage would help but this alone won’t save the decaying socio-sexual relationships between men and women. The MRA’s are noble in their efforts to summon an interest in men’s human rights. Perhaps they can limit or even crush legal misandry in decades to come but this seems unlikely because they are fighting genetics standards that are honed over millions of years of evolution.

Ultimately, the stage is set for a collapse. The government, who knows that a nation needs a replenishing birthrate, is helpless because female voters would never allow their toys to be taken away (abortion and the pill). As in America’s case, the government will then flood the nation with immigrants in a vain attempt to keep the population up. But when the immigrants gain status and access to the birth control pill, the same outcome will ensue. Women will flee motherhood as is the case of Germany, Australia, Japan, America and other industrial nations.

Men Going Their Own Way is a reactive measure that individual men are assuming as a label and behavior. By subtracting themselves out of the sexual market place, they protect themselves from the undesirable fates of other men in today’s world. Will it ever be safe for these men to return? Likely not in their lifetimes, hence they are in absence.

MGTOW ought to be a warning and lesson, both to governing bodies and scientists. These men refuse to be sperm donors on the hook for 18 years of child support. These men will not succumb to being turn-coats on dating websites or jar opening, apartment moving muscle men. We’re not here to be friend-zoned until the lucky day we’re conned by some rape accusing college girl.

We’re free men, enjoying our lives, endlessly amused by the blue pill fools who still play the house and lose every time. We have extinguished, to some extent, our sexual desires and our need to be un-free. Many of us have gone back to dating and interaction with women, only to gain more experience and realization that women do not love men. Gone are the days when we fancied women as some mystery or noble challenge.

We realize it’s a charade to keep us in servitude. Traditionalism was never an ideal arrangement for men or women either. The women were under-utilized and the men had the weight of the world on them, breaking their backs to provide for women that only wanted to flee. We can either love women or understand them, not both, because once you understand women; there is nothing to love about their mechanics and nature. It’s like loving a perfect weapon, a bio-weapon hyper-tuned to ensure progeny.

MGTOW is only a temporary catalyst in an evolving modern paradigm. The world is changing faster than anyone can keep up. These men are just smart guys caught between the grinding plates of centurial sociological shifts. For the time being, and for good reasons addressed in this article, they went their own way, away from women to be sure. Many other men have done the same thing through the ages simply because they had better things to do than entertain the cheap comforts of female company. If you’re a man reading this, I hope you found this useful and informative.

[narrow road travelerParticipant 1680]

MGTOW is men going their own way. Each word in the above statement has substance.

From olden times. It’s the rich uncle who bequeathes his wealth to his nephew.

It’s men passing unc~~~ed knowledge to other men.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. --Sun Tsu

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Bringing this thread back to front, can’t say I’m sorry for having an appreciation for old content producer’s work.

A lot of work by huMAN and Turd Flinging Monkey has been particularly useful this summer.

[RayBandakuParticipant 888]

Great Post, thank you for sharing, this is helpful to me and others who need to learn more about MGTOW. I appreciate your effort in sharing with all of us.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

RayBandaku wrote:

this is helpful to me and others who need to learn more about MGTOW.

You’re welcome! I listened to a few Sandman videos back in 2013, that’s what lured me in. What made me stay is the Stardusk Compilation. You must hear it out, however long it takes, chop it up in pieces, whatever.

Today, there is galaxy of mgtow content out there. There has been numerous years of watering down the content, piling more and more trash onto the mgtow media heap. You want the pay dirt, the golden era content, check out these videos on this page by these authors.

Be well and may you not suffer from women’s bulls~~~.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

The lost videos in the OP were all Spetsnaz. They are archived here.

https://archive.org/details/Spetsnaz_MGTOW_Video_Archive

(I still have no heard an explanation for why he shut down his channel… it just disappeared off Youtube. Presumably, he decided to continue on with dealing with women LOL)

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Spetsnaz Archive

[Gravel PitParticipant]

There exists Mirror YOutube channels and also other archives have old Messenger Rising content, Spetsnaz too

[Gravel PitParticipant]

[Author]

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