Thoughts On Religion and Atheism+

[VenomParticipant 310]

I’ve basically grew up around these atheist plus type people in chat rooms, forums, and Youtube.
However, I’ve been questioning my stance lately on religion.

I’ve been an atheist for most of my life. But, I’ve been sick to my stomach lately whenever I even go around the online atheist community. They’re full of feminists, manginas, and white knights. One of their favorite sayings among the men are: “I welcome our new female overlords (Hillary Clinton)”

At this point, they’re making Scientology seem like a rational stance on atheism and religion.

The only thing is though, I can’t stand most of the supernatural bulls~~~ that’s associated with being religious. I do however, love most of their moral teachings. Especially about men.

I’ve been thinking about converting over to something like Zen Buddhism or Taoism not only because I don’t want to be associated with the atheist community, but because those religions have great MGTOW teachings as well.

Here’s the group: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Atheism_Plus

[Truthseeker82Participant 6406]

Venom, I understand your feelings completely. I am completely against any type of organized religion. But I accept that people can adhere to a “spiritual” belief if it makes them feel more connected to something larger than themselves. But if you ask me, religion has caused more problems in the world than nearly anything else. Looks at the mess in the middle east. What happened in the Balkans in the 90’s. Take away all these so called religions, in my opinion, we would have a much more peaceful world to live in. As a MGTOW, we value the sovereignty we maintain over our own lives. Why give that up to some organization (aka Church, Temple, Mosque…whatever)? We should make our own choices in lives. I am way too much of a pragmatist to buy into the bible stuff. To me, that book was written ( so it is said) over 2000 years ago. Who knows who wrote it and at this point, who cares? The world has changed too much since then. Plus, from what I have read, that book is riddled with inconsistencies and paradox. I try to live my life and treat others as they would treat me. A lawyer friend once told me..my right to punch you in the face ends at your nose. In other words, as I opened with, man should have sovereignty over his own being.

[SpacemonkeyParticipant 1481]

Its hard to see how you can maintane a mgtow life once you aline yourself with any form of organised religion or any other belief system where there is a power over and above oneself. By all means study religion and take from it any teachings which you find usefull. Maybe practice meditation even.

I know what you mean about athiests or at least the modern beed. There is something nasty about them. They look down on those with faith as if they were idiots. Read up on some high level theoretical physics and some of the stuff going on there is just as bizare as any religion.

“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”

[bstoffParticipant 4863]

I think that organized religion is the real problem. By “organized religion” I mean actual, named religions, not necessarily the faiths that they claim to represent. Just as an example, I mostly adhere to Christian values and I like most of what I’ve heard from and about Martin Luther. I joined and attended a couple of Lutheran “churches” and that’s where I became aware of what people mean when the describe “organized” religion. It’s made up of the flawed people within it; and it can change dramatically over time or under certain circumstances. The religious wars themselves are being waged by people using assertion or expression of a religion as an excuse, but the main reason, historically, has been control, either over people or resources.
I would definitely consider Atheism to be one of those organized religions.
I have not found much productivity or insight from atheists or “free thinkers” but smug people presuming to be smarter than religious people. They are mostly comprised of college kids and the older”progressives” who never let go of the indoctrination they got pounded into their heads in college, and they cling to their faith as much as the Westboro Baptist Church does.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone, here; I’m just trying to describe my take on both. Feel free to flame me. I don’t mind.

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

I’m an atheist, the only tenet holding together atheism is we don’t believe in god. Other than that, there’s no real binding credo, or set of beliefs you need to be an atheist. This atheist plus is trying to make atheism into a f~~~ing religious stance. Religion is not the problem, I used to think it was. There’s also a snobby “I’m better than you” type attitude among atheists. People like to blame s~~~ like religion. Religion isn’t the problem, religion is the microscope we look through to see the problem. People are the problem, every religion has them.

I have nothing in common with this atheist plus bulls~~~, except neither of us believe in god. I decide for myself, and this is the problem with being part of a group. If you identify as an atheist, you are in there with people who just don’t go to church, as well as those crazy loons talking about how we need to burn every religious book because “religion is eeeeeeviiiiiiil”. I don’t care for s~~~ty people, I don’t care what they identify themselves as.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Whether its religion, lack of religion, or any group. There’s a bunch of dumbasses, a group of decent people, and then the small number of smart folk. If we are honest, the manosphere really isn’t much different in that regard. Sheeple will be sheeple, but that doesn’t necessarily reflect on the religion/philosophy they claim to follow/believe.

[VenomParticipant 310]

Yeah, I’m not bashing any atheist that aren’t a part of the atheist plus group

For example, I still like watching:

TheAmazingAtheist (He actually admits he’s a MGTOW)

Thorium

Thunderf00t

____________________________________

I’d say I’d fall into the camp of those types of atheists.

The other types of atheists that are in that atheist plus category like say:

AronRa

ZOMGItsChriss(Christina Rad)

(I would list others, but that’s all I can think of right now)

Those types of atheists I can’t stand to be around.

I also get what you guys are saying about adhering to a religion and going your own way. It’s the same as going into the military and calling yourself a MGTOW. However, I do enjoy reading some old religious texts found in some eastern religions. I would read the bible, I can’t stand all that “Thou” s~~~.

I just avoid calling myself an atheist at least outside of the internet. Mostly because I don’t want to be associated with the atheist plus group. I do however, say I’m just not religious.

[RoyDalParticipant]

It is possible to do meditation disciplines (such as Zen) without joining anybody’s religion. Do the practice, leave the baggage for someone else to carry.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[OhnoParticipant 668]

I believe in a creator god and Im in good company doing that.
2250+ fulfilled bible prophecies so far and 0 that have fulfilled differently then predicted by the bible …
Heres a small list of known scientists who believed in god.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

For Newton the world of science was by no means the whole of life. He spent more time on theology than on science; indeed, he wrote about 1.3 million words on biblical subjects. Yet this vast legacy lay hidden from public view for two centuries until the auction of his nonscientific writings in 1936.

Newton’s understanding of God came primarily from the Bible, which he studied for days and weeks at a time. He took special interest in miracles and prophecy, calculating dates of Old Testament books and analyzing their texts to discover their authorship. In a manuscript on rules for interpreting prophecy, Newton noted the similar goals of the scientist and the prophecy expositor: simplicity and unity. He condemned the “folly of interpreters who foretell times and things by prophecy,” since the purpose of prophecy was to demonstrate God’s providence in history when “after [prophecies] were fulfilled, they might be interpreted by events.”

( source: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1991/issue30/3038.html )

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

RoyDal wrote:

It is possible to do meditation disciplines (such as Zen) without joining anybody’s religion. Do the practice, leave the baggage for someone else to carry.

Amen, brother!

[SeamusTheDogParticipant 78]

It’s good to question your beliefs every now and again (in my case it’s at least a couple of times a month). Now, what I have to say might be viewed as heretical from “both” sides of the theist/atheist issue, but I’ve observed most of it to be consistent.

Reality is not what it appears to be. You already know that or you wouldn’t be here in this forum. But there’s a spiritual corollary to that. Spiritual reality is not generally preached. I am, in the strict sense, an atheist; one who does not believe in one person who is “God”. This in spite of being an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church and the Latter-day Church of the Dude. Oh, I do believe in a supreme being, but I believe that it is so advanced that we have little hope of understanding its motives or intentions the way we could understand a personality. It has no personality in the sense that we use the word. It has no ambitions (like, how is it going to climb any higher on the ladder?) and its motives, from what I’ve been able to extrapolate, are purely evolution-oriented. Not just physical evolution but spiritual and mental evolution as well.

What I have observed is that cause precedes effect. That is, every observed phenomenon is an effect, and it has its cause somewhere. Usually, the “proximal cause” is also manifest in observed phenomena, but sometimes it’s not. There’s no physical reason, for example, that a man should be drawn to psychopathic women over and over again. It’s a mental cause, and unobservable directly.

The atheist community has done itself a disservice in dismissing the importance and possible causal nature of phenomena that are not directly measurable with instruments. It’s a chink in their critical-thinking armor, and I suspect it’s been through exploiting that chink, the feminists have been able to take over a lot of the community.

You just have to rigorously apply your critical thinking to every situation, not dismissing any evidence on ideological bases. You might or might not decide that there is a spiritual component to life, but please, whatever you do, don’t take “religion” as the alternative to a physical-only universe. Religion is a poison not unlike the ingrained misandry that permeates Western civilization so thoroughly that it’s invisible until you have it pointed out to you.

Take it from a formerly-religious man; When you believe in things you don’t understand, you suffer. Superstition ain’t the way.

"All your children are poor, unfortunate victims of systems beyond their control... A plague upon your ignorance to the great despair of your ugly life!" -Frank Zappa

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Athiesm+ looks like a religion to me… just atheism plus the religion of hoping to be seen as an inoffensive mangina.

“I don’t mean to be offensive, and I welcome the comments and life experiences of women, minorities, the trains community and anyone who feels oppressed by the patriarchy, but your “God” doesn’t exist and you are a moron and a fool for believing in him, except where your belief helps you to cope with white cis-gendered heterosexual male oppression, which is totes understandable… and would you please touch my penis, since the is no God to disapprove of it, I mean… I really support women in the Athiest community… please touch it?”

[SeamusTheDogParticipant 78]

Then the question becomes, “where does beinghood begin as distinct from biological life?”. Of course, for a concretist/atheist, that might be a ridiculous question. (I know, this isn’t the place!)

"All your children are poor, unfortunate victims of systems beyond their control... A plague upon your ignorance to the great despair of your ugly life!" -Frank Zappa

[VenomParticipant 310]

I just find it a bit hypocritical of atheist plus community to say religion is bulls~~~ blah blah blah and then start their own religion. South Park did a great episode on this:

I get that there’s bulls~~~ on both sides of the issue, but I just find it hilarious that the majority of atheists are starting a new religion called atheist plus. It’s become dogmatic in most circles to say “religion is bulls~~~ and you’re retarded if you believe in a god haha!”

I know I’m still going to stay an atheist, but damn, I hate the majority of the atheist community.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Stargazer wrote:

“I don’t mean to be offensive, and I welcome the comments and life experiences of women, minorities, the trains community and anyone who feels oppressed by the patriarchy, but your “God” doesn’t exist and you are a moron and a fool for believing in him, except where your belief helps you to cope with white cis-gendered heterosexual male oppression, which is totes understandable… and would you please touch my penis, since the is no God to disapprove of it, I mean… I really support women in the Athiest community… please touch it?”

Yeah, I can’t stand that sjw crap. “Its impossible to be racist against white people because society favors them.” I had an English professor once like this. Whenever I wrote essays for that class, I just pretended to be one of her loudmouth feminist supporters. Despite speed writing my essays and never proofreading them, I got A’s. I wasn’t able to insert some liberal feminist like sentences in my last paper so I actually took a little extra time to write it and fix grammatical errors. Guess what I got on that paper…… a C. Maybe it was just coincidence, but I’m convinced it wasn’t. I swear at least on of those papers only took 2 hours to pull out of my ass, and that was with breaks so I wouldn’t die from laughter induced asphyxiation. There is no way it deserved an A much less a passing grade.

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

For instance, Im basically an atheist, but I fully believe a fetus to be a living being, even though we are told that the only people who believe that are “religious nuts”. But i consider it to be a matter of science. of course life begins at conception. To believe otherwise is anti-science, not a matter of faith.

A fetus does not become a sentient human being until there is some EEG brain activity, which is not until the 3rd trimester. That’s why we do not consider people with flat-line EEGs living humans. That is the scientific truth. The idea that life begins at conception is just arbitrary religious dogma that a soul enters the fetus at the moment of conception. That ain’t science. If we buy into the notion that every living human cell is a human being then we have to think that every time we allow an egg to be unfertized or a billion sperm cells with each ejaculation to die we are destroying human life we are committing a serious moral fallacy.

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

Venom wrote:

I’ve been thinking about converting over to something like Zen Buddhism or Taoism not only because I don’t want to be associated with the atheist community, but because those religions have great MGTOW teachings as well.

Here’s the group: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Atheism_Plus

Buddhism might be a rational choice for someone who wants to remain an atheist but wants to follow a religion based on ethics. Contrary to popular opinion Buddhists do not believe in a deity – it is a nontheistic religion. The Buddha is not worshiped as a god but just an enlightened person.
I once considered it myself but ended up rejecting it because I couldn’t accept the unscientific principles of reincarnation. I also had trouble with it’s central tenant that one must give up all desires to achieve true happiness. I could see this might work if one is desperately poor and unable to have anything but this belief can keep someone from striving for and gaining something. It is possible however to follow it’s ethical principles, such as respect for life and others without being a formal Buddhist.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Words People. Words. First there was actually the thought.

Have you ever seen the George Carlin video about words and how they get manipulated?

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

At no point are they not living. at no point are they not human.

Yes they are living human cells. So are the billion living human sperm cells that die with each ejaculation. Is that mass murder to you? Are you a mass murder when you rub your hands and kill off living human skin cells? A fetus is not a sentient human being until the 3rd trimester when there is EEG brain activity. Until then it is a brainless or brain dead bunch of cells.. – human cells but not a sentient human being. I can’t understand why someone not under the influence of superstitious religious dogma based on supernatural belief in a soul would consider an early fetus a person. Maybe someone opposed to birth control might take this philosophically bankrupt position. A potential person at best, but not a person. Why is the concept of a person as a sentient being so hard to differentiate from a bunch of brainless cells?

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

SeamusTheDog wrote:

Then the question becomes, “where does beinghood begin as distinct from biological life?”. Of course, for a concretist/atheist, that might be a ridiculous question. (I know, this isn’t the place!)

Yeah, that’s a dumb question. It’s a false disctinction begging a political question.

No, this is an important ethical and philosophical question based on the distinction between a bunch of brainless cells and a true person.

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