The Difference Between MGTOW & Redpill Reddit

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Roydal just posted a really good article in the online dating forum. It took me to reddit. I dont read their often, and I just remembered why. They are transfixed on this superficial terminology that is the result of having a very pigeon-holed paradigm.

Talking about game….alpha…beta…thunderc~~~ chad…

Everytime I read s~~~ like that I feel like Im surrounded by a bunch of 13 yo boys trying to be manly. Is anyone else entirely put off by this and it resonates with them? I think the only guys who think in these terms and use phrases like alpha/beta are themselves “beta” because only a “beta” needs other people to tell them how to act.

Resident cynic.

[ExsliventxsParticipant 1067]

I agree with you on some points, however beta and alpha are terms used to designate male pursuit. In my mind, you can have a 5ft 6′ alpha, he just has to have the mentality of an alpha, like Napoleon. Beta is a term I assign to people with defeatist mentality, or those who don’t actively pursue their own goals. It should be noted that I view all MGTOW as possessing the mentality of an alpha.

If however, you allow women to define your own terms for you, they can assign attributes like physical attractiveness to the terms. This is a moot addition however because women find different aspects of men attractive, so you can toss this out. Alpha and beta terminology should be solely defined by the masculine, not by women’s interpretation of what they “consider” masculine. Could you imagine the uproar if men were allowed to define what makes a “strong independent women”? Ha.

On your other main points I agree, game, thunderc~~~ chad, swag, etc are all terms made in relation to female approval or interaction. As such, they do convey a context of still being under the gynocentric regime. PUA and Red Pills that think they’re ahead of the game are akin to hunters that deem themselves excellent at chasing pussy. There is one huge discrepancy between this analogy however, the game doesn’t allow you to shoot it, women must either say yes or no. So in this way, while they may view themselves as “pussy masters” they’re actually still validating the level of their game off female approval.

MGTOW men have learned to exist without the consideration of female approval, and hunting that takes place is entirely on the terms of the MGTOW. In this way, any MGTOW that has success with women is usually considered successful by having women throw themselves at him, versus throwing himself at the woman. This exchange of approval and power is what ultimately allows a MGTOW to keep his “label” and still smash pussy.

Summary: A MGTOW that removes himself from the queue and instead forces women to queue to him, has swapped the positions of power. Since Red Pill and PUA don’t usually employ this tactic, they are still under female instruction.

[Governor Megachris%Participant 3584]

It’s EXACTLY how I see those Reddit pages.

One will make fun of you as a person for “not getting laid.”

The other will make fun of the woman for not laying you because there’s something severely wrong with female nature.

I’ll let you guess which is which.

[Anonymous 42]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

Is anyone else entirely put off by this and it resonates with them?

I’m put off by everything! Feminism’s 50 year long march has obliterated the definition of “MAN”. It’s a daily f~~~ing MIND SCRUB to maintain sovereignty of though! Every where you turn is a constant reminder of how deep the tentacles of feminism actually reach!
Society has imploded gentlemen, the black hole continues to consume…………

[KeymasterKeymaster]

I finally put a personal end to this debate and refuse to take part in that s~~~.

“ALPHA” – Is any man who puts his needs and wants first above all other things and the needs of anyone else second – if they are lucky – including those who rely on him.

“BETA” – is everything that isn’t alpha.

End of discussion.

Once you establish that, it’s not open for interpretation by anyone. Punto Finito. Let them be all thumbs trying to tell you that “game” isn’t about (and solely about) giving women what they want. They will never be the dark-maned lions. They are only lying to themselves and pretending.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[Anonymous 29]

Laughable, . . . .is all I can say about RR.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Keymaster wrote:

I finally put a personal end to this debate and refuse to take part in that s~~~.
“ALPHA” – Is any man who puts his needs and wants first above all other things and the needs of anyone else second – if they are lucky – including those who rely on him.
“BETA” – is everything that isn’t alpha.
End of discussion.

I never read “red pill” sites including the reddit one. So I wasnt aware it was a sensitive topic of debate. My point wasnt simply the “alpha/beta” terms, but the paradigm in which other sites/forums operate in.

They seem to have a superficially calculated system/mindset of what a man is supposed to be, and it all inevitably revolves around getting tail by “living up” to a girls ideals.

I just read some of the comments on the reddit red pill forum, and to my surprise so many of them were sympathizing with women, claiming they have it harder than we do.

I dont know why you feel the need to tell me “end of discussion” when this is honestly something new to me. I dont read red pill sites or reddit. I stumbled upon this forum because I found like minded men and I enjoy participating. However, when I read the other sites they dont compare at all, and Im pointing out why. Asking other members if they have the same negative reaction to those sites.

Pretty straight forward intentions on my part. I dont see why anyones feathers should be ruffled over it.

Resident cynic.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Once you establish that, it’s not open for interpretation by anyone. Punto Finito. Let them be all thumbs trying to tell you that “game” isn’t about (and solely about) giving women what they want. They will never be the dark-maned lions. They are only lying to themselves and pretending.

You added this while I was replying to you. That makes more sense. But Im still curious what others here think about my initial question

Resident cynic.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

I dont know why you feel the need to tell me “end of discussion” when this is honestly something new to me.

No fathers ruffled. You misread —- or I didn’t come across properly. I’m happy to call it my mistake.

I will accept the latter because 93% of effective communication iincludes tone of voice, and there is none of that in typed words. So unless I am a brilliant writer, there is a 93% chance I will not come across as intended. I wasn’t telling YOU anything except how I deal with it personally. That’s how I have finally put an end to this “debate” – for myself. I should have said “once I established that” instead of you.

Ancientwisdom wrote:

They seem to have a superficially calculated system/mindset of what a man is supposed to be, and it all inevitably revolves around getting tail by “living up” to a girls ideals.

Exactly. This “you’re not a real man” stuff….. “alpha”… “beta”…… nonsense is perpetuated by these people implying they are all “alphas”. But they aren’t. They will attempt to convince you that — after studying what women want (as opposed to what they say they want) — that “game” isn’t about (and solely about ) giving women what they want.

Their definition of “alpha” is defined by the FEMALE.
I merely gave you MY definition that is NOT defined by the female under any ciscumstances.

Look at the top part of this poster:

What are those women asking for? For a man to make HER the priority in his life. That’s women begging for a beta. And they tell themselves if you do all that s~~~ for her you’re a “real man” and if you don’t …. you’re NOT a “real man”. Listen to how women speak, when you make yourself useful to her , you’re a “real man”. and if it’s NOT useful to her you’re :not a “real man”. F~~~ THAT. She is permitted to define jack s~~~. Who gives a s~~~ “what she wants”. They must be out of their minds going online to address a letter to men telling them “what women want”.

Give a woman what she wants and that’s not “alpha”. She’ll turn you into a snivelling little “beta” if you let her and then she will resent you for it. Don’t give her what she wants and guess what happens. The exact opposite of what she tells you. You’ll get laid more too. But a woman will never tell you this.

I just decided I had enough of bulls~~~ “alpha” and “beta” definitions written by women. They have no idea of what the f~~~ they are talking about and don’t even understand their own attraction mechanism. But the man who bends because he understands her attraction mechanism is no alpha either. He’s just giving her what she wants in another way – compromising himself if he has to. That’s why they use the “you can’t get laid” tactic against you as a form of insult. Because they are SO PATHETIC…. “not letting laid” would be totally devastating to them. They actually measure “success” that way. They even use the term “success with women” in a sentence as a unit of measure.

The MGTOW “alpha” doesn’t give a s~~~.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Key,

I misunderstood you. Tone is VERY difficult to interpret in writing. Thanks for elaborating and my apologies.

Resident cynic.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

Thanks for elaborating and my apologies.

No need. We have to expect there will be misunderstandings from time to time for that reason.
I don’t even like to communicate with co workers electronically. Its voice or in person only.

Just answering someone’s question directly in an email makes them re-interpreted all kinds of imaginary s~~~.

I had a woman ask me a simple question in an email recently. I responded with a simple “no”. She actually thought I was mad at her. I had to explain to a grown adult what “no” means and that it’s a perfectly acceptable response – just like “yes”. I had to remind a woman that “yes” is not a required response and her reaction to my “no” was bats~~~ f~~~ing insane. I’m glad you’re not a woman. Then we would all be completely screwed.

If she didn’t automatically expect a “yes” she wouldn’t FREAK OUT when someone says “no”.
But type two little letters and it makes a woman go right out of her mind.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[KingOfTheSeaParticipant 1270]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

Everytime I read s~~~ like that I feel like Im surrounded by a bunch of 13 yo boys trying to be manly. Is anyone else entirely put off by this and it resonates with them? I think the only guys who think in these terms and use phrases like alpha/beta are themselves “beta” because only a “beta” needs other people to tell them how to act.

Ha. Nailed it. Reminds me of what I was saying the other day about the bearded, flannel and boot-wearing hipster who tries to look like a lumberjack. The problem is that they want to be men, but don’t know how in a society that teaches them everything masculine=evil as long as you have a penis. So they settle for the superficial features of masculinity because it attracts women, but they have nothing else going for them.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

KM,

The video you posted about deconstructing game, is spot on with why I made this thread. To put it briefly: in reality they are a bunch of men who need to collaborate, and DISGUISE themselves as something they are NOT in order to appeal to what they believe women want.

That, in a nutshell is exactly the problem I have with these other forums and that line of logic. They tout these umbrellas and categories of men, but those very categories are defined by women. To add insult to injury, these are the types of men who are incapable of simply being themselves- an independent, autonomous agent. They require group-think, and collectivism in order to achieve approval. In doing this they are the antithesis of what they define as “alpha”.

Its f~~~ing pathetic.

Every guy Ive ever known personally who adopts this mind set is the biggest “beta” ( their term not mine) with women I have ever met.

I knew a guy who always talked alpha/beta. A girl he was interested in made some stupid ill informed comment about something. I told her she was wrong. The dude raised his finger at me and said

in her defense and then tried to defend her lol. This guy was my friend and the girl had ZERO interest in him. I cant imagine three more ridoculous BETA words to come out of a mans mouth “in her defense”.

And this all coming from a guy touting the alpha/beta paradigm. My point is- any guy who needs to be told what is alpha/ or the independent way of doing things, by definition does NOT posess those qualities.

Resident cynic.

[ironheartParticipant 942]

To feminists an “alpha male” is just a male who has not been tamed by them yet into becoming the “beta” model. This is of course, all utter media BS.

There is no such thing as an Alpha or Beta male. Using such terminology is just giving into the very form of social newspeak that Orwell spoke of. These are created terms. They come from a completely other source than how they are used and defined in the general media. The terms were never meant to apply to actual day to day human behavior. At best they they were only meant to have superficial general description of animal behavior.

BTW There is no such beast as a “MGTOW alpha”.

Even using that term makes us sound like a bunch of retards or cowards. A real man can tell the difference between what is good for society and what is not. A woman depends on others to define that, because women are not analytical or world-view enough oriented to grasp the big picture. The big big world scares them too much to contemplate it without having a fall back logic (typical hypocrisy based) in order to feel comfortable about their place in the world.

Yeah, “A”MAN” is indeed someone who gives a sh*t. However some people are just NOT worth giving a sh*t about. The state of the planet, the economy, the government, the practice of protecting freedom, the history of the human race and its past mistakes, and the injustices against even the smallest living things are all something to give a sh*t about. Women just cannot relate to that.

The world needs our positive attention and our will to build and affirm the value of other men who are also builders. We are willing to create things, and are willing to accept the many failures it may take before the final product is completed. A woman will not do that.

A man knows he is responsible for the world, and not just his own family. A man has to have some sense of responsibility and duty to their community in order to help protect his family. A woman could not care less about the balance in that statement. They think they can do it better then us. Leave them to their delusions.

Respect the women who actually get us, and work alongside us for the same goal. They are few in number, and even with the same goals they can be just as screwed up as the rest of the female sub-species. Respect does not mean you trust them. Women today have done little to nothing that would allow any sensible man to trust them as a social group or as a gender.

As men we have to have the ethical high ground, and defend it. Just because female culture wants to destroy us for that does not mean that women have a clue about the real world, or what is needed to run it.

MGTOW male = no woman is going to tell me how to be “A MAN”

"Women have become so full of hatred that they are blind to reason and humanity. That which they practice will be the end of humanity, long before any war that men may fight.." "Women are predators by nature. Why else do you think they are so quick to gang up and go after a man they hate for showing any sign of weakness?"

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

Once you have or give a label, you are part of their stock.

I’m a free man and mgtow. Apply no label.

[Prefer Peace to PieceParticipant 10809]

Keymaster wrote:

Give a woman what she wants and that’s not “alpha”. She’ll turn you into a snivelling little “beta” if you let her and then she will resent you for it.

Kudos KeyMaster- this is spot on. Thanks.

I particularly liked your line: “No thank you. Enjoy your cats.”
These bitches don’t rest until they manipulate some wuss into doing what they want. Damn, it’s hard to even look at them anymore.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Prefer Peace to Piece wrote:

I particularly liked your line: “No thank you. Enjoy your cats.”

Several guys here wrote response but credit for that one goes to Sidecar.

PS. It’s good to see ®ILiveAgain and you guys again.
This thread was created for you. You should know you were missed.
/forums/topic/wheres-member-iliveagain/

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[MonkeyMindParticipant 5340]

Personally, i don’t have an issue with the Red Pill Reddit. Some of the posters there have some good insights and they have pretty much the same mindset as MGTOW when it comes to the issue of long term relationships and marriage.

Yeah, the Alpha thing does grate a little but most groups have some sort of slang that differentiates outsiders from insiders. I’ve lost count of the times i’ve wanted to crawl under my desk whilst cringing at co-workers for trying to inject corporate buzz words into conversations over the years.

Eventually, they’ll probably get bored with spinning plates and either go MGTOW or make some sort of attempt at a long-term relationship (god help ’em) which puts them right back into Blue Pill territory. However, i’ve no idea if it’s possible to get back into a blue pill mindset if someone has fully digested the Red Pill.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s a little ridiculous to take technical jargon (alpha, beta, etc.) created to describe the social behavior of canines (dogs, wolves, etc.) and try to apply it to the social behavior of primates (apes, monkeys, hominids, etc.).

Human social behavior simply doesn’t work that way.

I am neither an alpha, nor a beta, because I am not a dog, or even a quadruped. And until dogs learn to post on online forums, neither is anyone else on the internet.

[Author]

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