The Carnivore man vs The Herbivore man

[Prefer Peace to PieceParticipant 10809]

The Carnivore man vs The Herbivore man

In Japan, the Carnivore Man is the symbol of the traditional man. A traditional Japanese man is expected to support his wife and family without complaining even though he is unhappy.

Most Japanese traditional men are workaholic corporate “salary-men” who work long hours and give all of their income to their wives. The wives in turn give the husband allowances and keep the rest. The Carnivores are committing suicide in increasing numbers, and are seeing higher numbers of work-related deaths due to depression, job loss and fatigue.

These Japanese “salary-men” are fully subjugated by their feminist wives, and therein lies the primary motivating factor behind the Herbivore Culture.

Herbivore men have chosen a different life, one that is free of decadent and predatory women. Herbivore men have opted out of marriage.

Collectively, the Herbivores have become an US$ 8 billion market.

Herbivore men are not exhibiting the male violence about which feminists rant. As Herbivore men become the majority, the society in Japan will come to understand that manipulative and gynocentric women have led the country to the brink of disaster.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mgtow movement in America follows in the footsteps of the Japanese Herbivores. To the predatory, controlling, and manipulative women in America – your days are numbered.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Japans Lost Decade…Or Two

As of 2012, the official interest rate was 0.1%;[12] the interest rate has remained below 1% since 1994.

Sound familiar?

I suspect there are more dynamic reasons, mainly the L shaped recession, for the explanation of “herbivore men” in Japan. The US has been on the same path since ’08 and the results are similair. I agree feminism is much to blame in the West, but the explanation is more dynamic than that, especially in Japan.

How many similarities do you see below in Japan with the US since 08?

Japan’s strong economic growth in the second half of the 20th century ended abruptly at the start of the 1990s. In the late 1980s, abnormalities within the Japanese economic system had fueled a speculative asset price bubble of a massive scale. The cozy relationship between Japanese corporations and banking system meant that credit was easy to attain even when the investment lacked quality. As economist Paul Krugman explained, “Japan’s banks lent more, with less regard for quality of the borrower, than anyone else’s. In so doing they helped inflate the bubble economy to grotesque proportions.“[8]

crashed. Equity and asset prices fell, leaving overly leveraged Japanese banks and insurance companies with books full of bad debt. The financial institutions were bailed out through capital infusions from the government, loans and cheap credit from the central bank, and the ability to postpone the recognition of losses, ultimately turning them into zombie banks. Yalman Onaran of Bloomberg News writing in Salon stated that the zombie banks were one of the reasons for the following long stagnation.[10] Additionally Michael Schuman of Time magazine noted that these banks kept injecting new funds into unprofitable “zombie firms” to keep them afloat, arguing that they were too big to fail. However, most of these companies were too debt-ridden to do much more than survive on bail-out funds. Schuman believed that Japan’s economy did not begin to recover until this practice had ended.[11]

Resident cynic.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Japans Lost Decade Synopsis

The Lost Decade or the Lost 10 Years (失われた10年 Ushinawareta Jūnen?) is the time after the Japanese asset price bubble’s collapse within the Japanese economy. The term originally referred to the years from 1991 to 2000,[1] but recently the decade from 2001 to 2010 is often included,[2] so that the whole period is referred to as the Lost Two Decades or the Lost 20 Years (失われた20年, Ushinawareta Nijūnen). Over the period of 1995 to 2007, GDP fell from $5.33 to $4.36 trillion in nominal terms,[3] real wages fell around 5%,[4] while the country experienced a stagnant price level.[5] While there is some debate on the extent and measurement of Japan’s setbacks,[6][7] the economic effect of the Lost Decade is well established and Japanese policymakers continue to grapple with its consequences.

Resident cynic.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

I should be a bit more clear and tie the traditional role of Japanese men financially supporting their women, the expectations placed on them in society as such AND the economic break down the country experienced, as the result in herbivore men.

If their culture only deems them “man-worthy” if they can financially provide for their wives, yet their economic system collapsed not allowing them to do so, then the result is men rejecting that unnatainable role.

Resident cynic.

[Anonymous 5]

I forget the YouTube clip but the Japanese government is taking the birth rate decline very seriously.
They’re trying different approaches to the problem because every effort so far has come to nothing.
It’s a very real issue in just about all Western countries as well, and getting more serious every year.

I think the cost of raising children is a big part of it, which puts pressure on both parents and ultimately the male.
When it comes to marketing, kids are just fair game. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food, electronics or name-brand cloths etc.
Children are now hugely expensive and people don’t rely on children in old age any more, they rely on the state.
They’re an outrageous financial investment for a guaranteed zero financial return.
When you throw in windfall divorce and financial enslavement of males after divorce,,,,,,,after enduring married life, there’s no incentive apart from the Hollywood romance in the first weeks/months of the relationship.

Social media has resorted to shaming to solve the problem and this works a bit, however, the vast majority of men are riding out the shame rather than commit to millennial women.
I think this is why so many European countries are letting all these “refugees” in, despite the massive financial and social upheaval.

MGTOW is just a tiny seed now, more like a spore in comparison to the entitled female masses.
99% of MGTOW don’t even know they’re MGTOW.
I think it spiked on the net when Lui Marco came out of the closet and it’ll really spike when mainstream celebrities who are clearly MGTOW publicly acknowledge they have no plans or desire for marriage.
Stating their real views on long term relationships with women won’t do their careers any good (understatement). They all rely on a hamster fan base, so it’s hard to predict whether it will erupt, or grow/evolve like it has been doing quietly for the last decade or so.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

I think it spiked on the net when Lui Marco came out of the closet

I had never even heard of this guy, but just found a youtube video from him. Wow! It was great. He discouraged young men from going to nightclubs and gave the perfect explanation as to why. Ive been to thousands of bars over the years, but my very first experience at a “dance club” I knew the situation was f~~~ed. And for precisely the reasons he stated. Ive never understood guys that enjoy going to these self-defeating environments.

Thanks for the refference to this guy. Here is the video I found of him I thought was spot on, especially about dance clubs:

Resident cynic.

[SnakeSpectator 2080]

luimarco has some good videos, and, yes, that is one of the better ones pointing out exactly the way I feel about bars/clubs/the mall, etc.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Prefer Peace to Piece wrote:

The Carnivores are committing suicide in increasing numbers, and are seeing higher numbers of work-related deaths due to depression, job loss and fatigue.

Suicide strikes me as a poor choice for my golden years … I’m just saying. The Herbivores seem profoundly effeminate to me, but I’d rather be a poof than die from ulcers or self-inflicted injury. Living presents one with far more options than being deceased could ever possibly do.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Anonymous 18]

I think diet is the problem.

Carnivore men are FORCED to eat pussy.

Herbivore men CHOOSE to eat Sushi.

Problem solved.

Addendum: Pussy eating causes suicide.

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

I think I’ll remain an omnivore man and continue eating whatever the f~~~ I want.

Ancientwisdom wrote:

If their culture only deems them “man-worthy” if they can financially provide for their wives, yet their economic system collapsed not allowing them to do so, then the result is men rejecting that unnatainable role.

Not to mention the fact that, with Asian women in general, the average Japanese woman’s standard of being “provided for” has inflated through the f~~~ing ionosphere isn’t helping things any. Japanese standards of living used to be fairly spartan, with a small two bedroom apartment with a few futons, a kotatsu, and a television being considered more than sufficient. Modern Japanese women won’t settle for less than a fully furnished detached home with two luxury cars and more. And they’re finding out the hard way that they just aren’t worth it.

RoyDal wrote:

Living presents one with far more options than being deceased could ever possibly do.

You can’t get revenge if you’re dead.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Does anyone else not see the striking similarities between the Japanese Lost Two Decades and Americas Great Recession?

If Japanese men were told

“youre only MANLY if and only if you can be the providers for women”

AND

The economy does NOT offer you that opportunity.

Then how can you deny a relationship doesnt exist between these paradigms?

They have a stigma driven culture. It might be a tough bullet to swallow, but many of these men didnt elect to stop desiring women for their own sake; but rather that their culture told them they arent “real men” if they couldnt financially provide.

The lack of financial provision wasnt their fault, but the lack of opportunity in their country.

As a result, many of these men stay living at home with their parents. Play video games, and dont seek marriage.

They didnt reject women; they realized the standard their culture held them to was unnatainable; and checked out.

Big difference.

Difference being: I dont glorify them as MGTOW innovators. They merely followed suit to the natural de-progression of their environment. They didnt make a consciouse, and deliberate step towards their own goals.

Quite the contrary: seems to me their society told them they werent “man enough” to have a wife or family, and because of their countries economic collapse, they fell in suit.

Resident cynic.

[Big Viking Chef BVCParticipant 1286]

sidecar wrote:

I think I’ll remain an omnivore man and continue eating whatever the f~~~ I want.

Cheers! to that.

BVC

Swallow this RED PILL ===> Men will lay down their lives for their brothers, their women and their children. This makes Men useful as slaves. Women will lay down their lives for ONLY their children. To expect more from women is just a FANTASY created by society and reinforced by the unconditional love that we experienced from our Mothers. The key to freedom is the understanding that the woman you meet is not going to fantastically love you like your Mother did. If you buy into the fantasy, then she is your new master. If you do not buy into the fantasy, then she is nothing, and you retain your freedom.

[WallyParticipant]

Thanks for the video Ancientwisdom, that guy was spot on. The Herbivore men have simply come to the same conclusion as the MGTOW men, why live a stressful live for a few moments of pleasure, and live with someone who cares nothing about you but as a utility. Truth is truth no matter where we are from or live.

"what a waste of a life, to marry, give up your freedom, just for the hope of not dying alone. Don't get married Son."

[Anonymous 29]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

I should be a bit more clear and tie the traditional role of Japanese men financially supporting their women, the expectations placed on them in society as such AND the economic break down the country experienced, as the result in herbivore men.
If their culture only deems them “man-worthy” if they can financially provide for their wives, yet their economic system collapsed not allowing them to do so, then the result is men rejecting that unnatainable role.

BINGO !
That’s what I wrote, in another post about a month ago.

[NioZenParticipant 856]

The economic miracle of Japan in the 1980s was really just down the Bank of Japan backstopping the entire economy by printing Yen. During this time, the Yen didn’t lose percieved value, despite the huge effort by the BoJ (sound familiar, hmmm?), so business thrived as they got pumped full of juice. Japanese businessmen weren’t magicians, despite opinions to the contrary held by other nations who really didn’t understand what was happening. A lot of this debt creation is coming home to roost. japan is also the US’s largest debt holder outside of China (who are already starting to dump US Treasuries), so what happens to them has a knock on effect.

A brilliant examination of the matter (the book of the same title is also worth a read):

We only dream this bondage. Wake up and let it go. - Vivekananda

[TaxGuyParticipant]

From a slightly different perspective, you go to work all day and work for a boss that never gives you the respect you deserve, and then come home at night to a boss that never gives you the respect you deserve. At some point you realize that you can at least be your own boss after work, and it really isn’t that hard. In fact, it’s kinda fun! I can’t tell you the last time I made a “wrong” decision at home and got bitched at for doing so.

I think the herbivore men are just tired of being bitched at 24/7. You have to have a job to get ahead, but you don’t have to have a boss at home. So, you either fire the one you have or don’t ever hire one………….Guys want a PARTNER at home, not a BOSS.

Order the good wine

[TaxGuyParticipant]

And directly to Ancientwisdom, SPOT ON!! I agree 100% with your take on the economy. We are in the eye of the storm right now, and the next recession is going to be worse than the first. All the Fed did was replace a demand bubble for housing with an interest rate bubble, and that has to pop eventually. Also, out in the business world, when money is so cheap everything looks like a good investment.

John Stewart had a bit a while back about the Fed that went something like this: “The Fed borrows money at 3%, loans it to the banks at 0%, and the banks turn around and buy the Treasury Bills at 3%. The Fed is the worst f~~~ing loan shark EVER!!”

Order the good wine

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Ancientwisdom wrote:

Does anyone else not see the striking similarities between the Japanese Lost Two Decades and Americas Great Recession?
If Japanese men were told
“youre only MANLY if and only if you can be the providers for women”
AND
The economy does NOT offer you that opportunity.
Then how can you deny a relationship doesnt exist between these paradigms?

You’re mostly correct, except that it’s not quite that cause and effect simple. It’s more of a chicken and egg downward spiral scenario. Japans economy bubble in the 80s depended on two things: insanely short sighted monetary policy and the massive surpluses generated by men working themselves into the grave. Well both those factors are now long gone. The yen bubble popped, taking the economy down, and it isn’t recovering because men are not generating the huge surpluses any more. That’s not to say they couldn’t go out and work themselves to death generating a surplus and thereby recovering the economy, but the economic and social incentives to do so simply aren’t there any more (and honestly never really were).

There’s a difference between the unemployed hikikomori shut in living with his parents you describe and an actual herbivore man. The herbivore man is generally employed and generally supporting himself, but that’s all he’s doing. Instead of working 90+ hours a week he’s only putting in the bare minimum 30 hours or so necessary to support himself. As such he’s working right up to the level of diminishing returns in the Japanese economy. He could put in more hours and generate a surplus, but he doesn’t thanks to the economy and his rejection of traditional Japanese “shame and blame” pressure to be a good little wage salve salaryman. There’s simply no incentive to him to work harder to generate a surplus that he doesn’t benefit from.

Japan keeps proposing all sorts of retarded schemes to fix their economy and collapsing population, things like the “handsome man tax”, but it never, ever occurs to them to simply re-incentivize male productivity. They are still operating under the paradigm that working himself into an early grave is something a man “should do”, and that is never going to work for them again.

You’re correct that the west is undergoing a similar sustained collapse, but with an added factor that’s going to make it soo much worse. Japan doesn’t have the crushing, unsustainable socialist welfare programs the west has saddled itself with, not the rampant criminality they generate as their toxic byproduct. So while Japan’s economy crashed and stayed crashed, the west is on track to crash and BURN.

[GrumpyParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

There’s simply no incentive to him to work harder to generate a surplus that he doesn’t benefit from.

Cherry picking this statement Sidecar.
This is the most basic and truthful statement world wide, as well as the easiest for governments/society to fix. Yet it seems that no government or society understands that, and continues to punish those who produce and reward those who don’t. The people that produce sooner or later cant carry the burden anymore and produce less, yet still get punished.
Give men the incentive to produce and they will. Give men the incentive to not produce (welfare system), and they wont.
I believe in helping others out, not working myself to death so they don’t have to support themselves.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Grumpy wrote:

Yet it seems that no government or society understands that, and continues to punish those who produce and reward those who don’t.

Oh they understand it all right. It’s just not in their interest to do so because you cannot buy a man’s vote with his own money.

It’s no coincidence that socialist driven public debt spiraled completely out of control after non-taxpayers claimed the majority of the electorate.

[Author]

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