Taoism

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

I left my introduction earlier this evening in the introduction section. In my introduction I mentioned my study of Taoism(pronounced Dowism). Since I haven’t seen a lot of talk about Taoism in this forum, and given I see Taoism to be a very good philosophy to study as a MGTOW, I thought I would leave my favorite scroll from the Tao Te Ching(pronounced dow duh jing, roughly) for you all to muse over.

Scroll 76 (From the Shambhala published edition)(Translations by Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo)

Humans are born soft and weak.
They die stiff and strong.
The ten thousand plants and trees
Are born soft and tender
And die withered and sere.

The stiff and strong
[indent]Are Death’s companions
The soft and weak
[indent]Are Life’s companions.

Therefore,
[indent]The strongest armies do not conquer,
[indent]The greatest trees are cut down.

[indent]The strong and great sink down.
[indent]The soft and weak rise up.

(Afterword note: There is indentation that adds a little meaning, but I can not seem to figure out how to indent so I just left note where indents happen)

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Taoism and eastern philosophy has definetly influenced my worldview, but the topic isn’t specific enough for me to elaborate on that without rambling on and on about my experiences with it. The best way I can summarize it is that the idea of yin and yang shaped my philosophy on health and demonstrates the duality of life. The idea of the void helped me come to peace with mortalityand drove me to seek contentment in my life rather extremes such as happiness/sadness.

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

Tiga K wrote:

The best way I can summarize it is that the idea of yin and yang shaped my philosophy on health and demonstrates the duality of life.

For others who might be wondering what you are talking about.

Scroll 2 (From the Shambhala published edition)(Translations by Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo)
Recognize beauty and ugliness is born.
Recognize good and evil is born.

Is and isn’t produce each other.

[indent]Hard depends on easy,
[Indent]Long is tested by short,
[indent]High is determinded by low,
[indent]Sound is harmonized by voice,
[indent]After is followed by before.

Therefore the Sage is devoted to non-action,
Moves without teaching,
Creates ten thousand things without instruction,
Lives but does not own,
Acts but does not presume,
Accomplishes without taking credit.

When no credit is taken,
Accomplishment endures.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Could you recommend a Taoism 101 overview book?

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

Honestly, Taoism is a philospohy that demands a lot of introspection and deep thinking. The only book I would ever recomend for learning Taoism is the Tao Te Ching. And even if I was to recommend a beginners book it would just have a lot of biases that distract from the learning. Mostly because the west seems to keep their religious biases and so they tend to view the folkie versions of Taoism as legitimate.

I studied many books on the subject and the Tao Te Ching has been the only one that really taught me anything about Taoism. Although studying hundreds of books onthe subject of Buddhism has helped.

There is an interesting difference between the two philosophies too. While no primary documents are known to have survived from Buddha’s time that had any Buddist writing, the Tao Te Ching is supposed to be the direct writtings of Lao-Tzu. So really if you are going to study the subject you are always better off studying the primary texts first. Especially with a complex and dynamic philospohy like Taoism.

In case you were wondering about a good Buddhism 101 book, not sure I have one there either. Western writtings tend to have many, many biases, especially coming from Christian derived culture. I would suggest finding at least a half dozen books on the subect at your local university library. Those texts will be the most likely to be academic, and the academic sources showed the least biases(in my opinion).

Eastern philospohy is a tough thing to get into because it doesn’t have the same basic philospohical roots as all western philosophy. I think that is one of the main reasons that the West tends to view these philosophies as religions. And I suppose in some circles they are treated dogmatically, but if you read and study the original men, their stories and the basics of their philosophies. Especially with Buddhism study his life, because the philosophy is meaningless without the context of the times he was living in. I would also suggest King Ashoka, he was monumental in speading Buddhism in the East and possibly even the West. He lived in India in 304–232 BCE, well before Christ, and it was written that he sent Buddist missionaries to the west along the Silkroad. So, if in your studies you start seeing Buddhist philosophies in modern Western religions, that is a possible reason.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

i know that the yin and yang has very deep meanings. …….for example, sometimes good people are bad, sometimes bad people are good

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Blue Skies wrote:

i know that the yin and yang has very deep meanings. …….for example, sometimes good people are bad, sometimes bad people are good

Basically it is eastern philosophy version of “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” or how ever it goes but it applies to everything in life. There is day and there is night, rest and work, happiness and sadness. In order for one to exist, there must also be the other. Eastern philosopher sought ways to find balance and avoid extremes.

Oh yeah, Budtao, feel free to correct me. My knowledge in this stuff was mostly only acquired via books on sexual transmutation and studying Japanese. You seem much more knowledgeable on much of this.

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

Tiga K wrote:

Basically it is eastern philosophy version of “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” or how ever it goes but it applies to everything in life. There is day and there is night, rest and work, happiness and sadness. In order for one to exist, there must also be the other. Eastern philosopher sought ways to find balance and avoid extremes.

This is another simplified example of the Taoist path. I think the simplest way of understanding the Taoist path is by first understanding Wu-Wei(No -Action). Lao-Tzu watched streams for days, and noticed that water was capable of traveling great distances while having little impact on the material around(yes there are examples against this but metaphors are never perfect.) So he realized that if one is to get through the world while leaving as little lasting impact as possible, one had to become like the water of a creek. The challenge is that humans aren’t water, there is no inate inner ability to flow around things(at least not physically). So he created the path of Wu-Wei, which he described as the line between the two halves of the Yin-Yang symbol, so ultimately the symbol is one that is meant to showwhat to aviod, not what to seek.

My favorite scroll for this concept is probably 11.

Best to be like water,
Which benefits the ten thousand things
And does not contend.
It pools where humans disdain to dwell,
Close to the Tao.

[indent] Live in a good place.
[indent] Keep your mind deep.
[indent] Treat others well.
[indent] Stand by your word.
[indent] Keep good order.
[indent] Do the right thing.
[indent] Work when it’s time.

[indent] Only do not contend,
And you will not go wrong.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

“Some of the worst things in my life never even happened” — Mark Twain. A buddhist trapped in the the west.

Yes, I have always enjoyed the random author or philosopher who also stumble into these ideas themselves. My favorite Western philosopher, which shouldn’t be suprising, is Epicurus.

Blue Skies wrote:

i know that the yin and yang has very deep meanings. …….for example, sometimes good people are bad, sometimes bad people are good

Yes, this is one of the common simplified understandings of the concept called linear duality. Its a concept that is not dealt with explicitly very well in the philosophy. Its tends to be a very difficult concept in the west to understand because of the Christian(and if you go back far enough zorastrianistic influences.) I say Zorastrianism because as far as I can find in my research, that is the first formalized version of the idea of good vs evil.
Why this is an important concept in Taoism is that if you wish to live your life by the tenants of Taoism you must learn to flow though life like water. And in order to flow properly around things(because we aren’t naturally water[well 76% is but we still don’t flow]), one must understand the nature of things. And since the normal human world tends to view things in extremes(think RvD of US policial scene) one must have deep insight into them in order to flow with the greatest efficiency.
The greater concept in this part of Taoism is refered to Wu Wei(Trans. Non-doing). There are several scrolls in the Tao Te Ching that refer to this concept in different ways.

If I was to give advice in this realm, the first step is to look within yourself, and see where you hold extremist views, because its those that will cause you to get caught on the eddies and shouls of the river of life.
Like Siddhartha taught, moderation in all things.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[HitmanParticipant]

check what sexual practices the taoist clergy engage in , taoism for idiots book . i didn’t like what i read ..

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

Hitman wrote:

check what sexual practices the taoist clergy engage in , taoism for idiots book . i didn’t like what i read ..

I think I see your problem. You pay attention to the clergy. Since when does a clergy base neccesarily practice the religion or philosophy they preach. Also, if they are calling themselves clergy of Taoism they already failed at Taoism…

Its kind of like don’t judge Christianity cause there are a bunch of sick bastards plowing children.

One can follow a message and understand that some people have lost their way.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

To be honest you’re wasting your time with Taoism. Whatever you have learned about Taoism isn’t likely to be the true teaching. Taoism the religion for the public doesn’t really exist.

If you’re really interested you should look at Falun Gong.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[BudtaoParticipant 293]

Crazy Canuck wrote:

f you’re really interested you should look at Falun Gong.

I did some quick reading, nothing indepth, but the basis for Falun Gong looks like the same basis for the philosophy I have been building myself. I don’t use Taoism exclusively, I have also made a very deep study of Buddhism as well. It would appear that Falun Gong is very similar. At least according to Wikipedia it is so.

To me the teachings of Siddhartha and Lao-Tzu are just tools. Words and ideas that you build your own life’s philosophy around. Taking in these concepts and building the inner-peace, respect for Truth and compassion for your fellow man.

Thank you though for the subject. I’ll have to look into it deeper when I have the time.

Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.

[Author]

Posts