Stoicism and MGTOW

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

Recently, I’ve noticed the trend about people researching about Stoicism, in a few forums and other places that are Stoicism related (hell, I am guilty as charged of doing exactly that, a few years ago…), people have increased their hits on this philosophy.

Here I am, giving a thought if MGTOW philosophy is somehow related to Stocism, as women these days have become vices (in both meanings of the word), and keeping some distance to them had become some kind of virtue. Lately, I’ve noticed that MGTOW men tend to search for betterment of themselves, something that is VERY related to Stoicism, if not by enduring the “c(li)untmate”, by simply avoiding the vices of women.

Women these days had become the epithome of vices: greedy, needy, selfish, excessive lust and largely despise intelligence and reasoning. Hence, in my opinion, why most men got away from them. But, let me play the devil’s advocate here, just this time: should we not keep women at our sights, during the daylight, at least, as a constant reminder of what we can become, if we don’t control our impulses and ditch philosophy and rationality for “care-based (ugh) morality”?

To me, MGTOW and Stoicism are the same side of the coin: a way to endure the current conditions of living in this world, where the only thing required for me is to meditate, to abstain from vices and seek for virtues, whatever they are, and not attached to what society deems as “virtues” (for those are already tainted with gynocentrism), but the virtues that our forefathers kept and deemed so great.

I also saw that somehow, the Stoicism “club” has already been invaded with “vicious” men and women that somehow think that Stoicism is just passive acceptance of whatever happens, or that they even think that it has “political sides”, when Stoics despised politics, for its fruits and its means to achieve those ends.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

[TaxGuyParticipant]

Dark Kenshi wrote:

But, let me play the devil’s advocate here, just this time: should we not keep women at our sights, during the daylight, at least, as a constant reminder of what we can become, if we don’t control our impulses and ditch philosophy and rationality for “care-based (ugh) morality”?

Sounds more Buddhist to me. To thank your enemy for teaching you the lesson you needed to learn in this lifetime. And to keep testing whether you have really learned the lesson.

My interpretation of Stoicism is more about the realization that you can’t control everything about your outside surroundings, but you can control your reaction. Imagine and prepare for the worst case scenario, then when it doesn’t materialize you are better off than you prepared for.

That said, it’s been a few years since I read of the Stoics, so I could be forgetting something.

Order the good wine

[hmskl’dParticipant 6406]

I just don’t see the pain or hardship in going my own way. I’m Monk Mode and have been for long enough to forget .. and rather than enduring some punishment .. it’s almost exactly opposite. I am doing things right now these days that I want to do. Exploring 99.99% of what world has to offer … via an awalt free zone.

I’m not in any way, shape or form feeling that I’m missing out on anything. No desire to likely lower my standard of living, put me in potential legal jeopardy .. and end up wishing I’d never begun the ‘waste of time’ playing the games that will only cause me inevitable turmoil.

What am I really missing, anyway? Sex, intimacy, companionship .. a friend, a potential soul mate? … I seriously doubt it

The point is .. I don’t want to seek out an awalt for company, I don’t want any company at the moment .. and isn’t that exactly what GYOW is all about? Freedom to avoid and ignore .. if you so desire.

If I ever feel the need to socialize in a more traditional sense … I know where to find it, company .. where to find them.
I could drive to town and walk into the local Watering Hole Saloon. Walking into a room and gazing around the perimeter as I see post wall eyes of awalts, still riding the carousel as experienced Carneys .. awalts who have worked every sideshow game and fleeced every Joe who thinks he can win a prize .. when every carnival game is rigged
… standing in the Bar-Room, feeling the sum total of their experience; their myriad of issues with each and every past conflict ridden relationship .. “post wall” checking out every new potential victim’s arrival .. as I stand there deciding which direction to approach, after decades of clean air … guessing which way to go .. nothing short of a lamb to the financial and emotional slaughter of the contemporary yoga pants wearing awalt .. and her backing matriarchy.

I’m sure I’d find something sitting on a barstool …….. I could ‘dumb down’ my thinking and talk .. spend time conversing with this random awalt .. leading to .. nowhere’sville.
Wasting time, wasting coins ..
Until that time arrives, the absolute desperate need to socialize more .. which will never happen .. I’ll be here doing just fine.

[Anonymous 38]

hmskl’d wrote:

I just don’t see the pain or hardship in going my own way. I’m Monk Mode and have been for long enough to forget .. and rather than enduring some punishment .. it’s almost exactly opposite. I am doing things right now these days that I want to do. Exploring 99.99% of what world has to offer … via an awalt free zone.
I’m not in any way, shape or form feeling that I’m missing out on anything. No desire to likely lower my standard of living, put me in potential legal jeopardy .. and end up wishing I’d never begun the ‘waste of time’ playing the games that will only cause me inevitable turmoil.
What am I really missing, anyway? Sex, intimacy, companionship .. a friend, a potential soul mate? … I seriously doubt it
The point is .. I don’t want to seek out an awalt for company, I don’t want any company at the moment .. and isn’t that exactly what GYOW is all about? Freedom to avoid and ignore .. if you so desire.
If I ever feel the need to socialize in a more traditional sense … I know where to find it, company .. where to find them.I could drive to town and walk into the local Watering Hole Saloon. Walking into a room and gazing around the perimeter as I see post wall eyes of awalts, still riding the carousel as experienced Carneys .. awalts who have worked every sideshow game and fleeced every Joe who thinks he can win a prize .. when every carnival game is rigged… standing in the Bar-Room, feeling the sum total of their experience; their myriad of issues with each and every past conflict ridden relationship .. “post wall” checking out every new potential victim’s arrival .. as I stand there deciding which direction to approach, after decades of clean air … guessing which way to go .. nothing short of a lamb to the financial and emotional slaughter of the contemporary yoga pants wearing awalt .. and her backing matriarchy.
I’m sure I’d find something sitting on a barstool …….. I could ‘dumb down’ my thinking and talk .. spend time conversing with this random awalt .. leading to .. nowhere’sville.Wasting time, wasting coins ..Until that time arrives, the absolute desperate need to socialize more .. which will never happen .. I’ll be here doing just fine.

Extremely vivid.. brilliant.

[VerusParticipant 965]

As I understand stoicism, women, like wealth, possessions, reputation, etc., are externals over which we have limited control. They are things that can be taken from us at any moment by fate. So within stoicism one would be taught not to cling to a woman or make her the focus of your life, since that should be the pursuit of personal virtue. Stoic teaching regarding women would be to enjoy them and exercise any duties you have to them faithfully, but not to excessively value or worry over them. I really don’t see any inconsistency between stoic thought and MGTOW philosophy (or between Stoicism and Christianity for that matter).

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

hmskl’d wrote:

I just don’t see the pain or hardship in going my own way. I’m Monk Mode and have been for long enough to forget .. and rather than enduring some punishment .. it’s almost exactly opposite. I am doing things right now these days that I want to do. Exploring 99.99% of what world has to offer … via an awalt free zone.
I’m not in any way, shape or form feeling that I’m missing out on anything. No desire to likely lower my standard of living, put me in potential legal jeopardy .. and end up wishing I’d never begun the ‘waste of time’ playing the games that will only cause me inevitable turmoil.
What am I really missing, anyway? Sex, intimacy, companionship .. a friend, a potential soul mate? … I seriously doubt it
The point is .. I don’t want to seek out an awalt for company, I don’t want any company at the moment .. and isn’t that exactly what GYOW is all about? Freedom to avoid and ignore .. if you so desire.
If I ever feel the need to socialize in a more traditional sense … I know where to find it, company .. where to find them.I could drive to town and walk into the local Watering Hole Saloon. Walking into a room and gazing around the perimeter as I see post wall eyes of awalts, still riding the carousel as experienced Carneys .. awalts who have worked every sideshow game and fleeced every Joe who thinks he can win a prize .. when every carnival game is rigged… standing in the Bar-Room, feeling the sum total of their experience; their myriad of issues with each and every past conflict ridden relationship .. “post wall” checking out every new potential victim’s arrival .. as I stand there deciding which direction to approach, after decades of clean air … guessing which way to go .. nothing short of a lamb to the financial and emotional slaughter of the contemporary yoga pants wearing awalt .. and her backing matriarchy.
I’m sure I’d find something sitting on a barstool …….. I could ‘dumb down’ my thinking and talk .. spend time conversing with this random awalt .. leading to .. nowhere’sville.Wasting time, wasting coins ..Until that time arrives, the absolute desperate need to socialize more .. which will never happen .. I’ll be here doing just fine.

Nice argument, brother. Nevertheless, that was not the point of my argument.
What I wanted to point it out is that we should keep away from women, because they are vicious. No Stoic (and/or MGTOW, I believe) should keep himself running into vices themselves. But, (I don’t remember who) a great Stoic once said that it has value to keep people who are vicious around you, as a constant reminder of what the vices can do to a human being. Not interacting with them, just as an observational guinea pig.

So, all in all, what I am trying to gather your opinions about, is if MGTOW and Stoicism are somehow not compatible, if you think that it is valid to instead of withdrawing from society altogether, if it would be a good idea to sometimes dwell in it in order to keep the memory fresh about how vices affect human lives, and how it destroys a society completely, rotting it to the core.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

Verus, me neither. But, given that I am not any kind, shape or form of authority in Stoicism, I had to ask men who have more knowledge than me in the subject, in order to gain comprehension.

That is why I came to this forum, brother. I know men like you, TaxGuy, hmskl’d and MGTaoist are all around, so this would be the ideal place to ask some questions, I think.

Thanks, once again. The answers have been enlightening. Very!
Hope you gents keep pursuing virtue, and staying healthy.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

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