So, how/why did MGTOW change from the original manifesto? A history question…

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Is there any good sources on the history of MGTOW.  It can be argues this manifesto is what gave birth to MGTOW (this link is apparently a copy from the original site):

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2001/02/mgtow-manifesto.html

I see the MGTOW sign symbol there, but what is MGTOW now seems to change.  Anyone know what happened?  Was it Herbivore phenomenon that put a spin on it?  I don’t see much in the way of “instilling feminism in women” and I see much more avoiding women to various degrees.  So, anyone know what may of happened?  I see this change has caused RooshV to get irate about it, or at least some writers on his site.

I would suggest any man who is thinking about MGTOW, who hasn’t seen the manifesto, read it, because it will come up and be quoted as what MGTOW means.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[DurdenParticipant 1051]

Seems like a decent manifesto for 15 years ago considering what was going on. I think you discovered a gem and may want to archive it for historical reasons. Considering how fast things move nowadays.

Why in the hell do people keep trying to make MGTOW into a movement.  Let’s help guys who need guidance but as a political movement. Yeah you tried doing that. As we all know the whole MRA route really worked.  So f~~~ off with your MRA picket signs.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Durden wrote:

Seems like a decent manifesto for 15 years ago considering what was going on. I think you discovered a gem and may want to archive it for historical reasons. Considering how fast things move nowadays. Why in the hell do people keep trying to make MGTOW into a movement. Let’s help guys who need guidance but as a political movement. Yeah you tried doing that. As we all know the whole MRA route really worked. So f~~~ off with your MRA picket signs.

I believe “movement” ends up being used as a term to describe a group of people moving in a certain direction, that seems to have some commonality and ends for themselves.  Due to this commonality, it is called a “movement”.  I say MGTOW has elements of this.  There is men networking and coordinating, sharing of information, and thoughts and doing things that have an impact on society (see Herbivores of Japan).  It is done, not by proactively coordinating, but thoughts appealing to individual men, who then join in the conversation and do, because they see it is of value.  Not all movements in society are political, but it seems that original one wanted it to be political and tried to change the social structure also.

I do find it worth mentioning, because you see it pop up as what MGTOW is, when reported by those not connected, and it has a historical context of where things started.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

While I’ve got you here Richard, let me say I liked your YouTube video with the bible verses. Good stuff. I’m gonna pull some of those on my mangina bro in law, who has recently gone all churchy.

Use it for defensive purposes.  If he is being churchy and tradcon, there is going to be a problem.  If he keeps bringing up natural family on you, you can also drop this one on him:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.” – Luke 14:26

There are things of higher value than normal family patterns in life.  In the case of “hating your own life” I take that as a way to say you aren’t going to buy into the social patterns where they will game you for concern of personal loss, and threats of death, if you don’t comply.  I would say a free man will calculate if something may even cost his own life, and do risks, to do something greater.  To not be willing to even risk one’s life, and to have that as something that can be risks, means you aren’t really free.  Idea, as I see it, isn’t to mindlessly risk one’s life, but do do it, as needed.  I wish I can recall what movie I saw where there was a scene where this was discussed.

 

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

“MGTOW Manifesto”?

Please.

If such a thing existed it would be this:

Don’t give women anything.

That is all.

Everything else is situational and subjective.

[DurdenParticipant 1051]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

 I believe “movement” ends up being used as a term to describe a group of people moving in a certain direction, that seems to have some commonality and ends for themselves. Due to this commonality, it is called a “movement”. I say MGTOW has elements of this. There is men networking and coordinating, sharing of information, and thoughts and doing things that have an impact on society (see Herbivores of Japan). It is done, not by proactively coordinating, but thoughts appealing to individual men, who then join in the conversation and do, because they see it is of value. Not all movements in society are political, but it seems that original one wanted it to be political and tried to change the social structure also. I do find it worth mentioning, because you see it pop up as what MGTOW is, when reported by those not connected, and it has a historical context of where things started.

I didn’t mean you personally but I’m trying to make a point that the MRA movement failed and repacking it and selling it under another name will not work. A lot of the people who turned MGTOW into to MGTOW 2.0 did it to cause a movement. I believe all of them did to help men but most of former MRAs are trying to tilt the ship so to say. Especially those who are currently criticizing it because it is getting an influx of new members. Men who are still getting chemically burned and trying to swallow the red pill. Which is adding an entirely new light to MGTOW and the way it operates. The word movement is so often associated with organized movements with figureheads it would be hard to differentiate from others who use the word. Someone could pop up and say I’m the leader of the movement and popular media would take their word for all MGTOWs thoughts like Roosh is doing right now. Except he is doing them under a new term.

Does this really matter I guess it depends on who you talk to. Those going their own way would just make up another term or just ignore it all. I guess when I type it out it doesn’t really matter. I just like to analyze things. But I defiantly disagree with the word movement because it implies there is a set agreed direction. Labeling things is a double edged sword.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[OldscoundrellParticipant 412]

I see it as more of a mindset/philosophy on life than a movement. Men changing the protocol to what is expected from societys standards and pressures. If it ever goes political, I will probly just…go my own way.

 

[Just a ManParticipant 934]

I don’t see MGTOW as a movement, I see it as a way of life. Just keeping it simple, guys. We are all different and that is just how it is and it is a good thing. Our modern society is trying like f~~~ing hell to make us all the same. F~~~ that. Go your own way even if we have to kick each others ass in the process sometimes, and have a beer when we are done. Just sayin’.

Philosophy, the female repellent

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Durden wrote:

The word movement is so often associated with organized movements with figureheads it would be hard to differentiate from others who use the word. Someone could pop up and say I’m the leader of the movement and popular media would take their word for all MGTOWs thoughts like Roosh is doing right now. Except he is doing them under a new term. Does this really matter I guess it depends on who you talk to. Those going their own way would just make up another term or just ignore it all. I guess when I type it out it doesn’t really matter. I just like to analyze things. But I defiantly disagree with the word movement because it implies there is a set agreed direction. Labeling things is a double edged sword.

I was try to reach for a term that would fit what MGTOW is functioning as.  I had proposed “network” for it, to be able to show interconnectivity and protocols and so on, and autonomy.  Idea here is to try to understand.  And I know how “movement” is a loaded term, so I was trying to go with a less loaded definition.  It isn’t a term I would use normally, but do touch on sometime, depending on the context, with some provisions like, “It is a social movement, BUT without leaders driving it, but it does have some who have more influence on shared thoughts”.  I also had went with “thought matrix” and “tribal thought matrix” as another way to describe it.  I would say is weird and different than normal, because the Internet facilitates and accelerates things not done as much in the past.  And I can get REALLY  weird here, thinking of a meta-cognition rising out of things, the way Anonymous operates and says it is.  It might be that the Internet can give birth to Tulpa (thought forms) that function and manifest.  I have to wonder if MGTOW can end up being one also, and at what cost to individuals who consider themselves to be MGTOW.

The rabbit hole can go deep and in weird directions, and appears to do so, the more I think about it.

Anyhow, I am curious about how things changed from the original manifesto, which is the point of this point.  The other one on MGTOW having a life of its own would seem to be a better place to discuss what MGTOW is.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Executor MaxwellParticipant 591]

There can be said to be a MGTOW community, but MGTOW its self is not a movement but rather a phenomenon.

[FullMetalExoParticipant 2383]

Sharing Information and Ideas is not a movement.

Me talking to a friend is not a movement.

sidecar wrote:

“MGTOW Manifesto”? Please. If such a thing existed it would be this: Don’t give women anything. That is all. Everything else is situational and subjective.

That’s it. Simple.

Executor Maxwell wrote:

There can be said to be a MGTOW community, but MGTOW its self is not a movement but rather a phenomenon.

-----------

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Executor Maxwell wrote:

There can be said to be a MGTOW community, but MGTOW its self is not a movement but rather a phenomenon.

Here is what wiki had for social movement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_movement

Note this part of that entry: There is no single consensus definition of a social movement.  Mario Diani argues that nearly all definitions share three criteria: “a network of informal interactions between a plurality of individuals, groups and/or organizations, engaged in a political or cultural conflict, on the basis of a shared collective identity”.

I do believe there is a strain of social movement thought in MGTOW, among some at least.  When there is talk about trying to resist feminism/gynocentrism, and coming together to inform other men about the latest evil, and what some men are doing, it does take on a look of a social movement.  This isn’t to say MGTOW IS a social movement, but it has thoughts in it that make it have some assumptions like a social movement.  A common resistance against women’s nature/feminism/gynocentrism, ends up giving it a social movement feel to it.

I recall seeing discussion of MGTOW 2.0 pop up, and how we are here now, which is what happened after men moved away from the MRA/tradcon view of trying to change women and restoring the old order.  The MGTOW 2.0 view is a resistance against the nature of women/feminism/gynocentrism.  What follows after this after MGTOW start to really go their own way and don’t define themselves as resistance to nature of women/feminism/gynocentrism.

Another point here related, Herbivores are considered a social movement also, and it is mainly them acting on their own.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Luke 14:6. Mgtow gold. You’re asking about early mgtow documents, I think you’re onto something bigger than no ma’am. Jesus was mgtow.

There has been a monastic tradition going on for centuries, from the time of Jesus and onward, and also likely earlier in other parts of the world.  Men realize the natural state of things is corrupt and broken so they step out of the picture completely to pursue higher things as they see it, to avoid the corruption of the world.  Look at what was involved in their vows and you see this.

On a lot of levels Jesus was MGTOW on earth.  There is the not married, but also deeper than that.  It is this deeper nature of things I see coming out of the current state of MGTOW, and we can possibly see a shift in things as men go off and do their own networks and communities and so on, on their own terms, and find out what works best for them, and form their own cultures.  In some sense, part of MGTOW is a virtual monastic community with the Internet.

The monks who went out had more wisdom, and a broader perspective on the world.  Not bogged down by distractions, they could see things more as they are and shared insights with the rest of the world.  In the past, Monks managed to hold together wisdom of Greek philosophers as the Roman empire collapsed, and the university in the west ended up patterned after monastic patterns.

What we have coming, assuming MGTOW grows into a new identity beyond just opposition to the nature of women alone, and transcends this, could lead to answers to the problems seen in radical individualism we have had as part of Western liberal tradition.

Anyhow, I do ramble here, and write off the cuff.  All I can say is “stay tuned”.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

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