Slave for 20 years

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  • #208077
    +10

    Anonymous
    3

    Hello fellow brothers.
    I have just found out about MGTOW, although I was considering this path before knowing it existed.
    I will make my introduction a bit long, but in hope that it might help others.
    First let me say I am asperger. If you dont know what it is, I can briefly say its a kind of brain where your instincts are undeveloped in regards to understanding emotions (yours and others), and social complexities. Sometimes this is compensated by a powerful mind for more objective things, so much that eventually you can learn what is instinctive with other people.
    As an example, it is natural for an asperger to believe in what people say to him. It does not compute that people could lie to manipulate him, as he himself would not consider lying or manipulating others. And if he tried, he would suck at it.
    I know… This is the perfect nightmare if you add a woman. She does not have to try much.

    For me this all started with my mother, that I once called the “secret service”. She would fool me constantly and deny the evolution of my social skills. If I had a reasonable suspicion that my brother had told on me she would discard this as silly notion (“how could you think that about your brother!”) and say she knew things by “magic”. Any kid would know better, but it would take me decades to retrospectively understand that my instinct was right at the time.
    I was thrown to the large world like an innocent baby white knight. I actually got lucky to find a “quality” woman that did not take TO MUCH advantage of my nature.

    It all started as a dream when we where dating. I remember saying “I am always sexually satisfied”. I had positive attention, love, care, tenderness, and I would mirror everything back. All changed once we married, and I mean literally in the wedding night: for the first time I experienced sexual denial. Then the molding begins, as my opinions had to conform to hers, my behavior to her standards, and all my activities to her authorization. But the worst of all is that nothing is ever right. Even if I do everything as “instructed”, there is something that should be done differently.
    I am married for 20 years now, and I have been dreaming of divorce since the 5th year. It was actually very fast, since I was so white knight that I would kill myself before considering it. But emotional pain does wonders to your learning curve, it got so bad that one day I said “divorce could not be worst than this!”
    But there were kids, and I was willing to sacrifice myself for the sake of my kids, or so I thought I was doing.
    Another thing about aspergers is that we are “all or nothing” people. If a situation could escalate to limit, we weight the situation as reaching that limit. So, my wife could insult me and I would not react because that specific situation was not enough to divorce.
    I shut down emotionally. I was alive outside the house, but dead at home. I wanted to do nothing more than sleep and watch TV, when I was allowed to, of course.

    One day I found this site explaining why married men have a lousy sex life. I was lucky because it was high quality material. I learned that I was a low quality man, without standards or values, without a backbone and manly attributes that excite a woman.
    I sent for the books and changed myself. I discovered my fears and was able to overcome them. I started to deal with her bulls~~~, and managing many things right.
    I learned that sex for a man is the signal that the woman belongs to him, that he has value and is successful. It is not a physical thing, it is an emotional bond. Women talk and men have sex. I learned about self-validation and emotional self-sufficiency, but I still had the need for sex.
    The situation improved a lot and my wife was a lot happier. But sex did not improve much.
    After two years of this I had a revelation. My wife would not be attracted to me because of MY VALUES! She would respect and be attracted to a man with values that where compatible with her values! So, either I would change my core values to have sex or I would never be fully satisfied.

    That killed everything.

    I was back to square one: married to a woman that I was now sure would never respect me or give me what I needed, while at the same time I was giving her everything I had. Worst, I was quite sure that it would be almost impossible to find a compatible woman for me due to the changing nature of women.
    Eventually I concluded that I would be a lot happier alone, and the sexual instinct was the only thing preventing me to be happy. I started dealing with the sexual instinct like I did with my fears. It improved a lot.

    The problem now is that I want to initiate a divorce at a time when my wife is recovering from breast cancer. It’s a social suicide especially since I live in a very small community and my wife is very much loved. So, I need to be smart here.
    Money is not an issue. I will give her everything and my left foot, and I will be dancing with joy to leave this hell.
    A few days ago I found Sandman in youtube and discovered MGTOW. I can confirm by my experience every single thing that I read here, and much more. I am also learning a lot of new things.
    The great eye opener to me in MGTOW was the manipulative nature of women. I knew things but I believed all of it to be instinct and wild emotions. I was failing to see it for what it is: lying and willful manipulation. Again, it is my asperger part that was stopping me to see it.
    So, I would like to thank this community for giving us this important knowledge, so that men can avoid unnecessary suffering.

    #208095
    +4
    Keymaster
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Welcome to MGTOW and the Forums @ZenState. Really enjoyed the honesty of your intro and the way you just unloaded it all.

    I will give her everything and my left foot, and I will be dancing with joy to leave this hell.

    I understood everything except that. I believe (from what I have witnessed) that women will WORK to be so irritating and annoying in marriage…. that a man will be THANKFUL to be rid of her — at any price. That’s her goal: to be paid to go away, the maximum possible amount. And then she will congratulate herself on her accomplishment.

    Have seen this so many times.

    Many men arrive here “thankful” that they didn’t get totally destroyed, or at least he “didn’t end up in prison”, but I don’t see it as a cause for celebration. It would be like playing Russian Roulette and being “happy” that it didn’t kill you. But that’s the environment men live in now —- a minefield where they are “glad” they didn’t get their legs blown off.

    I don’t know how a woman can live with herself knowing that’s what he thinks. But I would throw all my money into the street and watch children play with it than to pay a woman to f~~~ off and get lost. I would force her to watch me set the house on fire the day after cancelling the insurance policy – JUST to make sure she didn’t get half.

    Even still, sorry to learn that she is/was not well.

    Welcome and please join in anytime you’re inspired.

    If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
    #208096
    +3
    BlacqueJacqueShellacque
    BlacqueJacqueShellacque
    Participant
    6890

    Welcome ZenState! I am so happy for you that you found us. MGTOW.com has been an invaluable resource for me. I watched lots of men’s rights video on youtube, which led me to MGTOW, then to Sandman too. I’ve been here for almost two months and I improve everyday from this vast collection of knowledge. Peace to all my MGTOW brethren, and a mighty welcome to you ZenState.

    #208098
    +2
    BlacqueJacqueShellacque
    BlacqueJacqueShellacque
    Participant
    6890

    But I would throw all my money into the street and watch children play with it than to pay a woman to f~~~ off and get lost.

    “Gold Jerry … Gold!” (Newman from Seinfeild)

    #208115
    +4

    Anonymous
    5

    Welcome Zenstate, thanks for the intro, it was a great read.

    The wedding night seems to be the most common time that women feel they finally own you, hence it’s when the transformation from NAWALT to AWALT occurs.
    Still, I don’t think I’ll ever cease to be amazed when another men can remember with frightening accuracy and pinpoint the wedding night as the abyss between girlfriend and wife.

    There’s never a good time for divorce.
    It doesn’t matter what you do, when you do it or why you do it, you’ll always be portrayed as evil, selfish, thoughtless, bullying and just about every other negative label she thinks she can stick on you.

    Don’t think paying her off will eliminate or even reduce her venom towards you.
    On the contrary, the more she gets out of you the more poisonous she’ll be.

    It’s time to get legal advice and do all your homework before you mention anything to anyone in your life.
    Remember, no matter how or when you decide to take your life back, she’ll always paint you as the villain

    #208129
    +4
    NEVERGEL
    NEVERGEL
    Participant
    166

    Welcome Zenstate!
    If you wait for the perfect opportunity to bail, you’ll never find it.
    Just do what you must for your own health and well being. Thinking of her and others is what got you in this mess in the first place.

    I can relate to a lot of what you said about your relationship with your mother, since I was raised by a single mom for most of my childhood.
    They love to manipulate you since they couldn’t control the men in their lives. Then they use the church and society to shame you into obedience
    when you try to express your individuality.

    Unfortuanately this is a pattern of abuse that is wide spread due to its effectiveness on man’s psyche and self worth. We men need to recognize our slavery for what it is and rise up against it. Only we can save ourselves, no one else can do it for us.

    I wish you the best of luck as you pursue your freedom. The road ahead of you will not be easy but you have all of us here for support.

    I live the life I love and I love the life I live.

    #208155
    +2
    Survivor
    survivor
    Participant
    610

    My gosh. . . .My deepest sympathies to you. Take your next steps carefully.

    "Shot through the heart, and you're to blame, You give love a bad name, I play my part and you play your game, You give love a bad name."--Bon Jovi

    #208188
    +2

    Anonymous
    42

    All changed once we married, and I mean literally in the wedding night: for the first time I experienced sexual denial. Then the molding begins, as my opinions had to conform to hers, my behavior to her standards, and all my activities to her authorization. But the worst of all is that nothing is ever right. Even if I do everything as “instructed”, there is something that should be done differently.

    Zen State, first thing, welcome to MGTOW.

    Your intro was awesome! The Asperger’s thing I can relate to. Are there different forms of Asperger’s?

    I feel like I’m part Asperger’s but always had a marksmen somewhere in my mind separate from the Asperger personality. From out of nowhere a cold dark shadowy feeling would overcome me, like the grim reaper of dirty deeds was about to claim another friendship, then sure enough like a shot! Bang! That person was dead to me! Whatever the offense! If the offense was something I would never do to some one else, like belittling, lack of respect, stealing, and or doing these things to anyone else! The two personalities (Asperger and Sniper) are definitely occupying separate apartments in my mind.
    Thank-you for your deep and honest introduction! It helped me to understand myself better! (Aspinsniper) I’ll add it to my volumes on knowledge in my Gynocentrology library. To me, you’re MGHOW OF THE DAY!

    #208189
    +1
    Experienced
    experienced
    Participant

    Welcome ZenState,

    Relax here.
    Read leisurely here.
    Study here.

    These guys’ll hit the nail on the head in a manner you just won’t find elsewhere.
    Keep us posted so we can continue to help.
    Don’t let ‘society’ get you down.

    Thank You for your intro.

    "It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

    #208225

    Anonymous
    0

    Welcome, ZenState
    I think you will find that most guys here have similar experiences to yours; aspergers notwithstanding. Welcome home.

    #208244

    Anonymous
    3

    Thanks everyone for the welcome and your wisdom.
    I am going to reply on some subjects, but it will take some time and in some subjects we have a lot to say!

    Code Bunker,
    I have seen one post where you mention “stealth mode”, and a silent treatment for wive to initiate divorce themselves. Can you point to a thread where you explain these concepts?
    Regarding the fleshthigh, I have never tried it, so I might check that. I have been working to understand my sexual instincts and underlying motivations. This is possibly an individual thing, but I managed to reach a state of less sexual pressure.

    Health issues are a great weapon to a woman, especially one that has been using it most of its life… without much reason… The pity card is an excellent play and allows the woman to appear MORE WEAK, do LESS WORK, while having an excuse to plunge into MORE EMOTIONAL TURMOIL.
    And the man is supposed to “support” her. I just had that line thrown at me because I am exhausted of going to stores all day for the last 2.5 weeks!

    #208273
    Biggvs_Dickvs
    Biggvs_Dickvs
    Participant
    3725

    Welcome ZenState, I think you’ll find if you keep hanging out and posting here that we are all of a very similar mind, and it feels REALLY good to know we’re not along and that the conclusions we reached about modern women’s attitudes and behaviours are not crazy, are not wrong, are not anti social(per se), but the kind of truth that the prevailing power structure in human society has worked very hard to cover up and distract us from, or at the very least keep us isolated and in despair.

    No longer.

    Welcome. We look forward to your posts etc.

    One quick question about something from your intro:

    I sent for the books and changed myself.

    Which books? I think I’d like to read them too if I haven’t already.

    Cheers,
    Rich

    "Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,

    #208288
    Wolf redpillman
    Wolf redpillman
    Spectator
    1658

    20 years of.marriages that’s.is a long long time especially if you are that main bread winner ,that system can make you her slave for life making you paying her alimony and assets splitting if.i.were in.your.position i would.try to see my.option to get out ,

    #208508
    +1

    Anonymous
    3

    Bigvs_dickvs,
    This material I mentioned is a mix of blue/red pill. It is blue because it intends to advance marriage and “solve” its problems. It is red pill because it explains women and men. It was useful for me to grow as a man but is not mgtow. It is more like becoming a trainer to dominate the wild tigers to do your bidding; becomes a full time job…
    Here is an example:

    Consider what happens in far too many marriages: a guy and a gal are attracted to each other. They get married and she goes to work “domesticating” him. He “let’s” her do it … because he wants to be a good husband … except now,
    She is no longer attracted to him.
    She is no longer interested in being sexual with him.
    He has become her eunuch.
    He is a castrated guy friend who takes care of her, who does for her, who helps provide for her.

    You must fully realize that it is impossible for your wife to be attracted to or sexual with you if you are this kind of man.

    This material has also a religious background, but I did not care much…
    So, not wanting to hand up blue pills here on my first posts let me know if there is anything of interest in this kind of stuff.

    #208547
    +1

    Anonymous
    3

    Keymaster,
    Thank you for the welcome and your feelings regarding her health. It is a testament of men character that we can show good feelings for a gender that harms us so much.

    I would throw all my money into the street and watch children play with it than to pay a woman to f~~~ off and get lost. I would force her to watch me set the house on fire the day after cancelling the insurance policy – JUST to make sure she didn’t get half.

    I am not really thinking in paying for my freedom, it is a lot more complicated and related to your own feelings.
    I see her a bit like a little kid that “needs” daddy constantly. I KNOW she will need me. I would be happy if she finds a helpful idiot/man that would take my place, but with this woman I am not sure. So, for my conscience I would like to leave her as well as I can.
    On the other hand I like fresh starts. When a program gets to messy I start it again from zero with the benefit of previous experience…
    And last: everything was done her way, so I don’t relate to any of it. Even the savings where her administration, even if it was my money (told you she was high quality).
    So, it feels wrong to take it and it was never mine anyway.

    This been said, wives can get crazy and destructive in divorce. So I once said to her:

    you get everything, I want nothing. But if you start using the kids as a weapon I will fight for every single thing, have it valued and split in half, discussed to oblivion in court, so lawyers will get everything. I will f~~~ everything.

    Yep. Been many times near that line. And really stupid: did not cross it.

    #208569
    +1

    Anonymous
    3

    ordinaryguy and nevergel,
    I appreciate your words and advice. I am looking to minimize the damages in bailing out. As I said I had some “husband training” that included divorce and how to handle it. But that is just theory. I am more interested in practical advises.

    In one of the more successful cases of divorce I know the guy went full guns. He sued and sued, to a point where kid where almost taken from both.
    The ex-wife was totally broken and only wanted him to stop and forget.
    Obviously he was being instructed by another woman. Only they can week havoc like this.

    #209569
    +1
    The Manipulated Man
    The Manipulated Man
    Participant
    1856

    Greetings ZenState,

    Your introduction is appreciated. It brought up memories and feelings that were lurking beneath the surface.

    The manipulation of our mothers is a “Sacred Cow” which is rarely openly discussed. Worldwide Gynocentric power is demonstrated when anyone who complains about his mother is socially labeled as damaged goods. My mother was a gifted manipulator and liar, so I was screwed over whenever I disclosed her bulls~~~.

    Older cultures protected and helped young men by removing them from their mothers and bringing them into the fellowship of men before any damage could be done.

    Women teach men over and over again that “no good deed goes unpunished.”

    Another area where men are victimized is how a woman’s physical sickness is used to guilt trip us into remaining with a horrible woman. Women who ingratiate themselves into their community have an especially tight grip on their slave. It was interesting when this “community” never really gave a s~~~ whenever I was sick.

    However, you are the first man who I have heard say that “money is not an issue” with regards to getting a divorce. Everyone I know, including me, fell into financial hardships after divorce, especially with children involved.

    Several colleagues who had children and who were making six figures were literally homeless because they couldn’t afford to pay their room and board after divorce. These guys were forced to stay with friends and family.

    A divorced man with children never gets to fully enjoy the money he has earned until the child support stops.

    It has been my experience that all of the divorced Fathers I know with Daughters never retire and never have any savings, especially when they become Grandfathers.

    just divorced

    What happens when a man finally comprehends the cold and calculating thoughts that are going through a woman's mind, while her eyes are brimming with tears?

    #209850
    +3

    Zen: You have lived 20+ years of having the “Law of Liberty” violated. Many are unaware that this Law even exists, however, it is one of the foundational laws of Creation. It’s a law because it is testable, with predictable outcomes.
    Violations of the Law of Liberty come with consistent, predictable results:
    1. Love dies — ALWAYS. For those who don’t believe me, go home and tell anyone you love that if they don’t reciprocate, you will put a gun to their head and pull the trigger. See what happens to their love for you. This is an egregious example, but, Zen, you have been on the receiving end of tiny little manipulations/coercions that have eroded “love” and now you are desperate for an “out”.
    2. Rebellion starts and grows [case 1]. Zen, you’ve been in rebellion almost since day one.
    3. You become a shadow of the “Law violator” [case 2]. If you do not rebel, and find a way out, then you become a “shadow person” — a dim reflection of the manipulator [see Zen’s wife expecting him to join in with her core values, etc].

    Your insights as to the origins of the situation [i.e. starting with your mother] are dead right. Many of us have been programed by Mom with a “software virus” in our brains and need deprogramming. Welcome to the other side.

    Ecclesiastes 7: 28. Though I have searched repeatedly, I have not found what I was looking for. Only one out of a thousand men is virtuous, but not one woman!

    When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

    #209915
    +1

    Anonymous
    3

    Greetings
    Women teach men over and over again that “no good deed goes unpunished.”

    Than you! THAT is the quote of the day for me! I was thinking today how much all my good intentions are used for manipulations.

    However, you are the first man who I have heard say that “money is not an issue” with regards to getting a divorce. Everyone I know, including me, fell into financial hardships after divorce, especially with children involved.

    As for money I actually have a plan. Men are pragmatic and think on return over investment.
    My wife’s idea of investing is to buy property. But then we don’t rent or live in it. To me that is not investment, since you have only maintenance costs and the market value of a house depends on its age. Unless there is a speculative bubble, you will have hard time getting your capital back.
    The world economy is in bad shape, Europe is bad and my country is worst.
    So, I will give her the properties but not alimony. She will think she has the best part of the deal, but actually she will have only costs and I retain my income. Her sister did the same deal, so this will be easy.

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