Report from the Field

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

So I went on a “date” this evening with a woman I’ve been speaking to for a couple of weeks, the one I mentioned earlier I intended to friendzone. Well, it didn’t quite work out like that but there were some interesting moments:

* At one point she jokingly called me a pervert and I told her loudly enough for everyone within a three seat radius to hear “We really just met and you don’t know me like that… casually tossing around words like pervert can ruin a man’s reputation so I’m going to have to ask you to take it back”, which she did.

* She ordered a meal but I didn’t order anything so she sat there and ate four sliders while I just had a couple of beers and told her “If I wanted to pay for a woman’s time and attention I’d hire an escort and if I wanted to pay for a hungry person to eat, I’d send my money to Starvin’ Marvin.” When the bill came, she paid for her portion… minus the tip, of course! Still, 80% is better than nothing and I was only out like $4 on her account.

* After dinner she said “Let’s go see a movie or go bowling.” and I told her “Honestly, I don’t like doing buddy-type activities on dates. I can go bowling or shooting pool with my friends and there’s no way I’m paying theater ticket prices to sit in a dark room for two hours next to you watching a movie when I can just watch one at home by myself. So if you want to do something, I know a spot where we can go park the car and get a great view of the city, sit in the back seat with the heater running and get to know each other better.” And that’s exactly what we did.

* So we’re sitting in the back seat and she says “The safe word is ‘stop’.” to which I responded “That’s a bulls~~~ safe word, pick something you’re not likely to say… like ‘Baltimore’.” Then five seconds after we got started again, she says “Baltimore”. I disengaged completely… “If you’re not going to respect the sanctity of the safe word, we’re done here. I’m not touching you again until you promise to treat this and me with respect.”

* Later on she called me a tease. “Oh, I’m not teasing. I want to f~~~ you, I’ve said I want to f~~~ you, I’m planning to f~~~ you and I fully intend to f~~~ you. I’ll do it right here, right now if you want.” After a few minutes of back and forth, I got her to admit without reservations that she wants to as well, but that she’s holding out because once she gets turned on, she can’t control herself. “I’m not expecting anything from you so no judgements if you want to stop… but let’s be clear. What I’m doing is seducing you and what you’re doing is teasing. Let’s make it simple… tell me how far you’re willing to go tonight and I’ll make sure we don’t go any further.”

As you might imagine, the idea that I could control myself and stop at will was openly doubted so I proved it by disengaging, calling it a night and dropping her home. As I was getting my chicken sandwich at the Wendy’s drive through on my way back to my place, she texted me and said “Next time there will definitely be sex.”

Now, I believe, is the ideal time to friendzone her. “Remember that bit about being called a pervert in public and how you asked for and then totally blew off the safe word and then how you said you can’t control yourself once you get started? Yeah… well I’m not so sure that I can trust you to act in good faith here so I think it’s best if we don’t let this progress any further. I’m sorry, you seem like a nice girl. Maybe next time we should just go bowling.”

[SpacemonkeyParticipant 1481]

Seems like a whole lot of time wasted. I don’t know about you but I value my time which is why I keep my sex life on a profesional level. I’d recomend it, the sex worker/client relationship is one of the most honest out there just so long as you cab get over the “I’d never pay for it” crap and in the end it turns out cheaper too.

“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”

[Anonymous 0]

Hey Doc,
Sounds like a fun evening to me.
Unfortunately, she will make up some shaming language that says you treated her poorly, SIGH. They will never get it. Men are calling them out or just plain not listening to BS. Good post Doc +1

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

@doc.

Sir, I suspect trouble if you continue with this woman. She is already playing and s~~~ testing you.

Lethe us know how the friendzone turns out.

It will be a huge slap in the face for her as she has already offered you sex. Saying no thanks will burn up her hamster.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[OgreParticipant 5863]

That’s a story with a happy ending, or not rather. She won’t like being friendzoned, and she’ll be on you like a fat chick on a cheesecake. Unfortunately that will break the terms you set, and then she’s punted.

She sounds like she’s a real princess. Used to getting her way. Unfortunately there are too many guys that have fed into her fantasy of controlling guys BEFORE they have even been in the same zip code as the golden hole.

Unless you really enjoy her company for some other reason this is going to be a short “friendship”. She wanted to be in charge of everything and everything that you brought up just made her ramp up in some other aspect of her crazy.

I’d be walking away, but that’s why I stay deficient in the friend department. I know at least a thousand people. I claim very few as friends.

I failed to realize in my youth that I was the prize. I was going to work. I was going to earn. Little did I realize that due to feminism, that no longer meant I had to share. Road soon, Desert after.

[Mr. SpockParticipant 10909]

Sounds like she was trying to s~~~ test you to death when you were in the backseat and then she tried to shame you by saying that you were a tease for not wanting to play her junior high school games. And women wonder where all the good men are?
I wouldn’t even consider friend-zoning her. Your time is worth way more than she has to offer.

Feminism isn't about equality with men, it's about leverage over men.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Spacemonkey wrote:

Seems like a whole lot of time wasted. I don’t know about you but I value my time which is why I keep my sex life on a profesional level. I’d recomend it, the sex worker/client relationship is one of the most honest out there just so long as you can get over the “I’d never pay for it” crap and in the end it turns out cheaper too.

We’re talking about a span of three hours here. Believe me, I can spare it. And yeah, if I just want sex, I can and will pay for it. I stay engaged in the dating scene because I enjoy it and because I like a good story. Definitely this is not the best story I’ve ever gotten, but given that I don’t do television or movies, for the most part, it’s my own form of personal entertainment.

I see dating the way other people might see skydiving or swimming with sharks. You go into it knowing it’s complicated and dangerous but by doing it, you sharpen your senses and develop your self-knowledge and mastery over emotions and expectations. It’s the opposite of going monk… to my mind, monk types try to conquer their desires, feelings and fears and change their script by withdrawing from the things that vex them. I work toward doing so by engaging with and confronting those things directly.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Ogre and Spock, you guys are right, the “Friend Zone” is not about offering true friendship (when has it ever been for women?) but rather about blowing someone off without taking responsibility for it.

Of course I can and will take responsibility for why I think getting further involved with this woman would be a bad idea, but offering the “friendship” as compensation is just a fun way to flip the script and send a message to the gynosphere.

Plus, to overhear two girls in a coffee shop talking about the guys who had the gall to friendzone them would be the highlight of my day. Hopefully someone else will get to hear that story when this girl tells it and derive some pleasure from it.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Doc,

I’d like to add. I think it will be most painful to the female if you leave out the details as to why. Just say ” i’d like you as a friend vs a lover etc.” if you give details then she can rationalize her rejection away and update her tactics for her next victim.

please keep us updated!!!

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[SpacemonkeyParticipant 1481]

Stargazer wrote:

I see dating the way other people might see skydiving or swimming with sharks.

Funny you should say that as I have done both skydiving and swimming with sharks and wouldn’t really put them on par with spending 3 hours trying to get my dick wet with some attension whore. But, hey it’s your movie.

“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Spacemonkey wrote:

Funny you should say that as I have done both skydiving and swimming with sharks and wouldn’t really put them on par with spending 3 hours trying to get my dick wet with some attension whore.

It’s easy to look at other people’s choices and belittle them without looking more deeply into their motivations but it doesn’t leave much room for understanding. I could just as easily make fun of you for “jumping out of a perfectly good airplane” or being addicted to your own adrenaline but I don’t because I have nothing to gain from criticizing your life choices.

Now if you think I’m being foolish for “flirting with disaster” then we can talk about high-risk activities and compare females to sharks and maybe have a good laugh about it, but if you’re implying that I’m some wet-behind-the-ears noob trying to rationalize my need for pussy then you’re either not paying attention, not interested in the deeper issues at play or just trying to score points for yourself by claiming to be “further along the path” than me.

There is no path. We all take our own direction and make our own choices. If my choices are problematic for you, why not ask questions about my judgement rather than simply calling it into question? This is a forum, after all, and we’re presumably here for the sake of conversation and discussion.

[SpacemonkeyParticipant 1481]

Stargazer wrote:

It’s easy to look at other people’s choices and belittle them without looking more deeply into their motivations

My sincere appologies, I did not intend to belittle or offend.

“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

It’s all good. There’s a strong contingent of MGTOW who believe, as I assume you do, that any interaction with females beyond the strictly professional is a waste of time and effort in addition to being dangerous, given the current social and legal environment.

There are others, myself included, who believe that it is possible to interact with females in ways that can be mutually beneficial by exercising caution and using our understanding of female nature and social tactics.

Discussions over this are regular and ongoing and, although they can sometimes become contentious, I believe both sides have the opportunity to benefit from the exchange.

For my own perspective, while I am aware of the pitfalls and get that it’s fun to flip the table on females from time to time (I occasionally enjoy doing so myself) I believe that our species is sexually dimorphic for a reason and that females have a legitimate role to play in the life of a self-determinate man.

Put simplistically, there may be no such thing as a unicorn but a wild horse can still be pleasing to look at and fun to ride.

[DeepInThoughtParticipant 2710]

Spacemonkey wrote:

Seems like a whole lot of time wasted.

Agreed.

Jan Sobieski wrote:

Sir, I suspect trouble if you continue with this woman. She is already playing and s~~~ testing you.

^^^This

Ogre wrote:

She sounds like she’s a real princess.

She sounds like a real pain in the f~~~ing ass.

Stargazer wrote:

* At one point she jokingly called me a pervert

Red flag…game over!

Stargazer wrote:

she sat there and ate four sliders

Oh dear, fat ass slob on the way.

Stargazer wrote:

It’s easy to look at other people’s choices and belittle them

Well said…we have learning experiences not mistakes!

Stargazer wrote:

There are others, myself included, who believe that it is possible to interact with females in ways that can be mutually beneficial by exercising caution and using our understanding of female nature and social tactics.

This is a guy who gets it! *thumbs up*

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Believe it or not, she’s 5’2″ and about 15 pounds underweight for her height. I was going to suggest she get an ice cream to go with those sliders.

But you’re right, she was s~~~ testing me and to engage with her any further would be a waste of my time.

[Mr. SpockParticipant 10909]

I’d also like to point out that being friend-zoned by a woman means being a friend without the benefits. This means that you are expected to provide her access to YOUR resources, time, knowledge, energy as well as contacts (which implies their resources as well) and she is supposed to do the same in return.
What really happens is that you provide all the amenities of a boyfriend without reaping the benefits. You’ll be expected to help her move because friends do that. You’ll be expected to be the listening ear that she needs when Chad Thunderc~~~ does something to disappoint her. You’ll be expected to entertain and do things with her when Chad isn’t available because that’s what friends do. When her car needs worked on you’ll be expected to provide incite and advice and maybe even do some labor as well. She will also be expected to do the same but c’mon, how many of these things would a guy expect a woman to provide? ZERO.
The whole friend-zone idea was created by women to benefit themselves. It was not meant to benefit men. Women have been doing this for a long time but we have a name for it now.

Feminism isn't about equality with men, it's about leverage over men.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Damn. I typed up this long-ass response last night but then got logged out when I tried to post it.

Basically I agree with everything you said, Spock, except I believe the friendzone is created by men… pussy-begging simp men who can’t take a “no” from a woman so instead they bulls~~~ her and themselves by pretending to be a “friend” so they can hang around and keep trying to get at the pussy.

Don’t wanna be in the friendzone? When she says “You’re a great friend.” or “I’m not looking for a relationship.” or “I love you but I’m not IN love with you.”, you just say “Cool.” and move the f~~~ on to the next chick. Yes, she would be complicit in accepting the benefits of your fake friendship if you stuck around orbiting her in hopes that you could sneak your way into her vagina, but no woman can force you to be her friend against your will so just take the “no” like a man and voila, you’ll never be friendzoned again in your life.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

I just keep trying to escalate until I get shot down or blown off. Saves time, for everybody concerned.

Exactly. And what does a man get for putting himself in a woman’s friendzone? Stress, resentment, anger and the knowledge that he’s a two-faced lying sack of s~~~ who’s just pretending to care about a woman so he can try to f~~~ her, that’s what. Believe me, I know… I’ve been that two-faced lying sack of s~~~.

Yes, women will absorb all the time, attention and treasure you can throw at them…mthey know what they’re doing and that’s s~~~ty. But as much as I hate a woman who will use someone for her own benefit, I hate a man even more who will lie for his own advantage, whine about exhausting his resources for nothing and then blame a woman for letting him do it.

[TheWalkerParticipant 58]

I enjoyed reading this post from the OP. I’m similar in a way. I love sex with women but I’m not prepared to play mangina gameas. And if we want women to change their behaviours and expectations (and their massive sense of entitlement) then such encounters can only be a good thing.
Example. I was dating a woman recently. She said ‘I want to take it slow’ which meant no sex. I said OK, then you won’t mind me dating other women then. We were in the sack the next time we met. Strange how she changed her mind so quickly when she realised she wasn’t the only game in town and I wasn’t prepared to play by the rules.

[Symmetric MGTOWParticipant 570]

Women will never be honest about what they want because they know that the only thing they have worth pursuing is the hole in between their legs.
Women have known this for millennia. Read medieval literature, there is a reason why a woman’s virginity was their most valuable asset in the past.
It’s all about their magic hole and they know it and so they are taught to make it hard for others to get in there even if they don’t have anything else to offer aside from access to that cavity.
Think about it. It makes perfect sense.

[Author]

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