Relationship to your mother

[TyrionParticipant 14]

Hi guys,

During my marriage, I drifted away from my mother: my wife hated her and basically made me cut all relations. Which was OK because, even if I love my mother, I always thought she was pretty annoying: typical upper-middle class entitled babyboomer, successfuly made me a mangina up until now…

After my divorce, I decided to give my mother a call to tell her what happened and that I was OK. Since then, she has made it very clear she wanted us to talk more. She calls, texts and emails me too often for my taste. She hinted at children taking care of their parents, even if I know she earns more than me, and she is married. Recently, she gave my email address to an old friend of hers who ‘wanted to catch up’.

This is where my MGTOW s~~~-o-meter started beeping. Could she have seen my divorce as an opportunity to put me back in chains? Hers this time? Am I being paranoid?

What do you think?

[experiencedParticipant]

You’ve come to the right place. Keep asking others here what they think.

Communicate with your mom in a time controlled manner eg texting or emails. This allows you to come to a conclusion, not react, and then look at the whole deal the next day, and see if you still agree with your conclusion and what her actual strategy and motives are for each case. THEN you respond.  Try putting the shoe on the other foot. Eg do you think of children as someone you support, or should support you?

Does your mom’s respect of you, if there is any, include her having asked you first whether or not to give your email address to someone else?  Birds of a feather flock together, if mom’s a challenge, the one she recommends to you to “catch up,” probably is too.  It’s somewhat shocking to look back on matches proposed when one considers the benefit to each party. Eg is mom going to be in great stead with her girlfriend, for passing off said girlfriend’s loser daughter to you? Or is she looking for/ putting your interests first?      I can’t recommend marriage, but if you’ve got to be in a relationship, lead it from the get go. If she won’t let you, dump her.  Mom seems to be going “parent to child” on her calling the shots here, yet not even “adult to adult” on responsibilities, but “child to parent” on her being taken care of by you.  I mean, yes, if she can’t work, is elderly, and alone, do the right thing, but she’s married, makes more than you, etc.??     Don’t get played for the fool.    Don’t look through her colored glasses. Look through your own eyes, “Why did I marry my ex?”  “What exactly was I thinking?” “Am I going to allow myself to make the same mistake again?”

If mom makes it very clear what she wants from you, flip the table over, make it very clear what you want from her.

Also, beware if she does the: question..…..question…….question….… technique or the questionquestionquestion, or the make a statement totally one sided and immediately change the topic.

Proceed with caution.
The world assumes that mom is perfect and the relationship is the problem, this may not be true.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[experiencedParticipant]

 

I………………………can’t…………………………………..cannot recommend………………………………. marriage. But if you’ve got to be in a relationship, lead it.  If a girl won’t allow this, dump her.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[TyrionParticipant 14]

experienced wrote:

The world assumes that mom is perfect and the relationship is the problem, this may not be true.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that mothers are just women who succeeded in extracting enough resources from a man to pass on their genes. Given I don’t want a relationship with a women in general, there is no reason she should get a pass just because she took care of me (with my father’s money) when I was vulnerable.

So, when she called yesterday, I did the unthinkable: I submitted her to a s~~~-test. And she failed. I brought up the subject of the wage-gap and listened very closely to what she had to say about it. Unsurprisingly, she started by explaining why it existed and when I told her I didn’t think it was the case, that no employer would ever decide to sit on a 23% margin just because they wanted a sausage-fest, she changed the subject. It wasn’t about women making less for the same job anymore, it was about the job needing to be adapted to the individual’s priorities, women not being in positions of power, blablabla…

About the old friend she wants me to catch up with (yes, she asked for permission, and I foolishly said yes), it has just been the ‘how have you been’ exchange for now. Meaning the payload (what she wants) is yet to come.

This convinced me that I needed to be extra-cautious and analytical, especially because of the pre-existing emotional ties. I think the text/email is a great idea: it allows for time to think between exchanges and limits the amount of subconscious s~~~ she can download in my brain.

What are your thoughts on the subject? As an ex-slave, it seems logical that your first master must be the one with the biggest influence over you, right? Do you see your mother as a NAWALT (reminder, they don’t exist)? Or are you very cautious around her? Do you still talk to her? If so, what kind of protections have you set to limit her influence?

[J.D SilvernailParticipant 383]

You are right about your mother.

I'm married to the game,but she broke her vows.

[MAXIMUSParticipant 15]

wife = wedge between you and anything you ever loved!

[JollyMisanthropeParticipant 3356]

I tolerate my mom, not because I don’t love her, but we just have personalities that are combustible if we are in the same room for too long. It’s always been that way though, we know how to push each others buttons and sometimes engage in doing so just to p~~~ each other off. It’s never malevolent, just a weird dynamic of our relationship.

She’s joked from time to time about me not getting my inheritance unless I take care of them when they get older. I told her I’d gladly give up most of my inheritance to pay someone else to wipe her ass and get her in and out of the bathtub when she’s old and feeble.

The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.

[HitmanParticipant]

mothers do not have special status….when a viper nurses at her venomous teat, it raises only more reptiles..i spat out her poison long ago..

[KeithParticipant 482]

My mom and I always got along great, but she is from a different era.  She is very well educated (she holds a masters degree), always had a great job and so she was not subservient in a 19th century sorta way, but she was a diplomat.  She taught me and my 4 brothers that if women can have it all in the modern world, including children, careers and success, without a man, than men could surely do the same thing.  I believe this advice is why me and 3 of my 4 brothers have all remained single.  (One brother married at age 46 – 10 years ago and is getting divorced now – he learned his lesson).  One of my brothers even has 3 children through surrogacy and he has raised them as a single parent and done a fine job.

My mom is 89 now and as I had stated in a previous post, long ago she told me that I didn’t need to get married.  She thought that women “nowadays” wanted to be men and she believed that this would be an obstacle to a successful marriage.  She said women now want to be independent so they should be and she told me to harvest the fruit without ever owning the crop.

She posited that gender roles were created and refined over thousands of years and their importance could not be underestimated or easily dismissed.

I didn’t realize how prophetic these words would prove to be.

Keith

ONCE UPON A TIME there was a man who never found a wife and he lived happily ever after. The End.

[Beware the LamiaeSpectator 89]

Tough subject. Mothers of course were our first relationship. They are the ones that instilled the Male Mother Need. Most of us still love them and can’t stop. I’m not saying we should stop loving them. I’d have to guess that we’re all very ambivalent towards our mothers. Mine was there for me when I was a vulnerable and troubled wimp. I finally grew up but I owe her a few favors, emotional favors (I’d never borrow money from her). She and I are like oil and water. I’ve been atheist since I was 12. She is still uber Crustian.

I try to keep as much distance as I can mainly because of all that religious dogma. That’s my reason, you may have different ones. Im done with Christmas role playing and honestly dont want to be a part of most family functions.

I stay away from my brothers too. One is a former youth pastor (married with kids), another just graduated Masters from Seminary (married) and the last brother is a virgin because he is a Homosexual, hard core feminist victim class nance.

Stay away from people you dont like is my advice.

Dont be on a leash for family. Specifically the women in your family. Im a man now, conscious of my biological impulses and psychology, I can resist that crap because it leads to suffering. Im a Man Going His Own Way. I dont take orders or comply with malingerers requests. I especially dont approve of their religious beliefs or teaching their kids that crap.

 

[KeithParticipant 482]

I do guess I was very lucky by comparison.  I can remember not understanding why my mom treated me and my brothers so differently than my sisters.  On one particular occasion I can remember that I needed something (I was a teenager and I can’t remember what was so earth shattering) very badly, or so I thought and so I asked for her assistance.  These were her words:  “Sweetheart, you were born with brains and intelligence, I armed you with an education and hopefully, common sense, you’ll figure it out”.  These few words made me realize that I could do it on my own, I need not depend on any woman, or anyone else for that matter, to help me make decisions that were mine to make.

She was never one to baby her boys, unlike her daughters.  she used to frequently make references to the fact that we are “going to be men” one day and it is important that we know what that means.  My sisters could never drive anywhere without one their brothers with them at all times.  The boys were allowed to get behind the wheel and take off as soon as the ink on the license was dry.   She let her boys play sports, hunt, fish, punch each others lights out (when necessary) and she promoted masculine and self-sufficient behavior in her sons.

Ironically, my aunt, who had never been married, was my mom’s biggest critic.  She felt that the reason none of the boys married was because she taught us to get along without wives and make our own decisions and since we all liked each other and spent so much time together, that we never would have time for wives.  .  .

In retrospect, she may have had a point. . .

Keith

ONCE UPON A TIME there was a man who never found a wife and he lived happily ever after. The End.

[MantelarParticipant 77]

here’s a story for you, tyrion.  my mother was a drug addict.  my father, a white knight (at least he was), married her and adopted my half brother.  now both of them were young and drug addled, and there was some sales-related violence around my home around my fifth year.  my mom and a girlfriend were selling blow, and the friend’s husband tried to put a stop to it.  bikers blew his hip out with a shotgun.  my dad ordered my mom to cut all contact.  when her friend showed up in my driveway the next day i had the privelage of watching my father, a grown man, beat the s~~~ out of my moms friend, drag her through the gravel, and dump her in the street.  told her never to come back again.  around this time my half brother convinced his granparents to take them in.  naturally, my f~~~ed up mother blamed her parents for ‘stealing her boy’, even though they were clearly doing the right thing.  even at five, i was happy for him.  she sprialed into a depression.  one morning she was sitting on the bed, loading my dads pistol, high, drunk, and uttering s~~~.  i told her to give me the gun – keep in mind the damn thing was half the size of my body at the time.  she told me no.  i told her again to give me the gun, sobbing this time.  she looked me right in the eyes and said “if i shoot myself it’ll be your fault.”  the crazy bitch actually believed my brother left because he was jealous of me.  i remember, at five, feeling dead cold and saying “then shoot yourself” and walking out of the bedroom.  cowardly bitch didn’t do it…things got quiet for several years.  things never got better with my mother.  i avoided her like the plague and she always bemoaned that there ‘is something wrong with you’ or ‘why does my son hate me’, etc.  but my father was a new man after sobering up.  hunting, fishing, sports…nasty with us about doing good in school, etc.  he was being a good dad.  trouble was, my mom wanted to keep using.  she made his life hell.  until one day she spat out the devils bargain “just start drinking again, asshole!  just leave me alone about what i do.”  that put them both back into a slow death-spiral from which they never really recovered.  by the time i moved out, worked my way through school, and landed good work, my relationship with them had devolved into them calling me for drug money…i wish that hadn’t happened because before i got married, my dad called me and tried to talk me out of it.  i shrugged him off as a drunken idiot.  but i understand now…tyrion, your mother, and i know you love her, is just another human being – a f~~~ed up mess with a whole host of problems of her own.  if it stinks like s~~~.  its s~~~.  trust your intuition.

[Helen be DamnedParticipant 480]

Wow. I really hate to follow that. All I had to say (actually there is kind of a long backstory here) is I’m in college and was living with my parents a couple of years ago, and my parents were having some kind of party. I was in some music classes at the time and my dad encouraged me to play my guitar in front of the people there, but at the time I still had some stage fright and insisted on practicing for a while beforehand, unsure if I really wanted to, nut understanding my dad was trying to make me more comfortable playing around people. My father kept trying to push my to just go out and play, which sparked an argument with my mother, who made the argument that if I didn’t want to I shouldn’t have to. I do at this point want to stress I was an adult and was able to make the argument myself if so needed, but eventually the argument escalated (I’m not fully sure my entering it would have really helped) and my mom drove off, a few drinks in. My dad at that point just went into the “do whatever” stage, and so since the thing I was working on wasn’t as good as I wanted, I ended up not performing.

When my mother returned, she asked me if I had ended up performing, and I responded with no and she asked me “Was it because of me?”

I responded with something akin to a no, and somehow the conversation navigated to her asking what I was thinking.

To my actual amazement, I responded “You’re a little full of yourself, aren’t you?”

The look on her face was one I had only seen on f~~~ing T.V. mothers faces. It was the “I have no son” look. She walked off, and after a few minutes I found her and apologized saying that I told her exactly what she asked, and that it wasn’t really what I meant, blah blah blue pill blah. The point here that I’m trying to make is that I think there is some degree of hurt that every human being is capable of, it is just much closer to the surface for women, because they are such shallow creatures. The look on her face sticks in my mind, and even if I hurt her, she wounded me and my father first. Whether I performed or not shouldn’t have been an argument. Her reaction was to drive off drunk. My reaction was to tell her she was being irresponsible. Her new reaction was the closest thing to hatred I have ever seen her display (and she is not renowned for being considered a calm happy woman.) I have no doubt that she still harbors a grudge, even though we get along well enough, even though she says she loves me. I have seen the face she hides.

"You can keep your soul, I don't want a cell-mate." - Them Crooked Vultures

[NekrophyteParticipant 22]

Yeah, she was a crayon… Was.

[TheGouliatParticipant 20]

In any Relationship, there HAVE to be Boundaries. YOU have to set those Boundaries like they fit to your life. Your Mother respects those Boundaries? thats ok, have a good relationship to your mother. She tries to go around those Boundaries or tries to manipulate you to “move” those Boundaries? she wants something from you, thats the sign to leave.

[Math RoninParticipant 86]

Hard to say, as this depends a lot on the specifics of your personal relationship with your mother.

FWIW and from what you say, your situation sounds a lot like mine, so I’ll relate what happened in my case. My mother is basically a paranoid control freak. This never came out overtly while my dad was alive (as he was big on family stability and keeping the peace), but there was always the negative comments she used to make me doubt myself and follow her advice. When my dad passed, she came out in full colors. Similar to your situation, I cut ties with my mom during my marriage, got in touch with her afterwards, and then realized (in the time that had passed) what a psychic energy vampire she was. I have no time for anybody in my life who is trying to bring me down, so I cut off relations with her completely.

I’ve had friends and relations tell me I’m wrong for doing this and that I’ll regret it one day. Well,  it’s been 10 years since our parting ways and I haven’t missed her a single day, so this hypothetical day must be somewhere way off in the future.

[martygParticipant 103]

All mothers are women and have female brains. I don’t know about your situation, but I think if any woman sees an opportunity to exert some influence, they will. By now, your are probably well versed in recognizing the myriad forms of female manipulation. As for putting you ‘back in chains’, she can try.

[UmbreonParticipant 152]

Most of the guys have already said it, but I’ll echo it: a mother is a woman, too, and needs to be dealt with with caution. She is also an adult and should be able to take care of herself. She makes more than you. She has a husband to split her bills. Let her handle herself. Having you pay for anything at this point is foolish and only encourages her to stop caring for herself.

Beauty fades, dumb is forever.

[byirParticipant 2]

My mother, dead for slightly over a decade, was the soul of an enraged harpy reborn mistakenly into the body of a human female. She castrated my father, turned my older brother into a perpetual baby sucking on her teat, and left me with more than enough physical and emotional scars to outlast my lifetime. I was the child that my parents had in order top save their marriage (having a new infant is always the best way two fix a broken marriage), so, when I failed at that, I was screamed at, beaten, and derided until I was big enough that she became afraid that I might hit her back (no, I never did); the screaming and derision continued until I graduated high-school and left for university (I paid for all of my education, thank you). After I graduated, I never went back.

During the two decades that I had to endure my mother’s insanity, not one person helped even though it was obvious to everyone: no state authorities, no ~family~ members, no church fathers, not even my own father. Needless to say, I’ve struggled down a long road becoming the best man that I can be. This was hindered by her keeping me isolated until university, as I had no social skills when I left ~home~.

I twice made the mistake of having a girl friend. The first was a total slut who spread her legs for everyone but pitched a bitch fit if I looked at anyone else. The second seemed okay until 2 years into the relationship when, in a fit of anger, she told that she had planned to change everything about me after we married.

Physicians patched up the physical scars from the beatings, though I still do have a few scars. The emotional scars have been the most difficult. I trust few people but women I trust least of all. As far as I’m concerned, women are a separate species; if I wanted to experiment with bestiality, I’d do it with something less dangerous.

[FunInTheSunParticipant 8283]

I think she’s making up for lost time. If she’s annoying, you have the right to take a break from her  & collect your thoughts.

"I saw that there comes a point, in the defeat of any man of virtue, when his own consent is needed for evil to win-and that no manner of injury done to him by others can succeed if he chooses to withhold his consent. I saw that I could put an end to your outrages by pronouncing a single word in my mind. I pronounced it. The word was ‘No.’" (Atlas Shrugged)

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