Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Regrets about not having children?
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Mendokusai 5 years ago.
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A lot of men on this board advocate never marrying and never having children. I can fully understand their concerns, but I was wondering how many men who say that don’t actually like children or want them.
Personally, I quite like children, but it looks unlikely that I’ll ever have any now, mainly because of the difficulty/risk of getting into the kind of relationship which is required to father them and bring them up properly. I do feel regret about that quite a lot.
Thoughts?
I’m not dead set against having kids, it’s just that I am not willing to take the risk involved to have the nuclear family with how things are currently. That and this world is so f~~~ed up right now that it seems cruel to bring children into it. Just more slaves to soak up the tax debt of our current masters.
The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.Women regret not having children, they get baby rabies. Men don’t, they never did.
Stop believing media BS.
I think a lot of men are wary of the children thing because they think this requires a woman. But times are changing and I think we’ll see surrogacy encouraged and that may turn around.
Do I regret having no kids? Kind of. But I wonder how much of this is more of the idealistic illusion I bought into my entire life. I went my own way some time ago, but my recent study on MGTOW made me reflect a lot on why things aren’t working as they did in generations past.
I began to wonder what kids really are. I read a post that really shocked me a year or two ago, where a guy said children were essentially empty vessels which are filled by society. Kids are only half you and half your mother. I think of myself being nothing like even 50% of my mother or father, so aside from genetic baseline, and carrying a family name, being someone else’s kid doesn’t mean much to me in regards to blood. Historically children descended from their parents and were raised by them, and instilled with their values (good and bad), virtues, and culture. These days parents hardly see their children much and are filled with whatever the school teaches, what they see in media (movies and TV) and what they pick up from other kids. I’ve gotten tot he point where I hate our society so much, I’d be heartbroken to see my kid pick all that garbage up and become a product of it. As an American, I’ve realized we really have no culture to pass on aside from whatever Hallmark can profit from.
I hope in the future as MGTOW catches on, men wont wait for “the right one” to have kids. They’ll become fathers and raise them on their own terms. I’m curious to see how that will pan out over time, but I’ll be dead by then. I think there will be a difference in quality between children who are raised mired in the norms of society, and those raised by men who want to do things as they see correct.
Price is what you pay, value is what you get. -- Ben Graham
You can like children.
You can value children.
You can agree to help produce children.
You can pay for children.
But those children will never be yours.
You cannot have ‘children of your own’.
Those children will always be the property of the owner of the uterus they came from, and the family court system will enforce those property rights very aggressively.I made a decision a long time ago not to fall down and sacrifice my time, money, effort and emotional energy on the alter of marriage/fatherhood. Do I regret not having children? Sure I do. But if I had made all those sacrifices, I would still be without children. I would also be without the time, money and other sacrifices I made to have children. Reality is that we can’t have children wether we make the sacrifices to have them or not.
The only options I see for having ‘children of your own’ are to adopt one from a uterus that died or gave it away, or to buy an egg and contract in writing with a uterus to carry and deliver it for you…assuming you can find a court who will actually hold the uterus accountable for the contract that she signed. If the court does not uphold the contract for surrogacy any more reliably than the courts uphold prenuptial contracts (which the courts throw out all the time), then you will still not have a child of your own, but you will most certainly be paying for it.
Personally, I see adoption of some war orphan somewhere as the much more likely scenario for me. It seems to be the only reliable way to have ‘children of my own’ that can’t be taken from me.
Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you
I never wanted to have kids. Never felt that urge to have an offspring. I guess I’m not the fatherly type. I could always imagine myself being the cool uncle. I just cannot deal with kids on the daily. A few minutes is all I can be around them. I hate spoiled brats. If I had a kid, that kid would have grown up to hate me because I would’ve been a very strict parent and I absolutely hate disrespectful kids. I especially hate that phase where teenagers think they know it all and start to rebel. No kids for me.
For every man truly going his own way, some woman, somewhere, has to pay her own way through life.
I agree men don’t get ‘baby rabies’. I don’t think I have that. It’s just that I enjoyed the relationship I had with my late father, and also my grandfather, and think perhaps it would be fulfilling and enjoyable to have a similar relationship with children of my own.
That said, is there not some biological imperative to father children? Has our culture disconnected sex from childbirth so much? In more ‘primitive’ societies, it’s not how many women you’ve shagged that gives you status so much as how many children you’ve fathered.
I never wanted children – I knew that even when I was 12 years old. Not only do I not have regrets but I am extremely happy I didn’t, knowing what I know now about females and the government’s education system. I don’t dislike well-behaved children but I simply seem to be missing the gene that puts into me the urge to work most of my adult life to support and nurture children. I have been accused of being selfish by both men and females for not wanting children and my stock reply is “Don’t you realize that the decision to have children is the most selfish act you can do?”. I go on to explain that the children you have never had a voice in being born, no choice in what socio-economic situation they end up in, no chance to avoid being born in some sh1thole country or absolute poverty, no choice in their parents who often are seriously un-prepared to raise a child with actual love and the guidance necessary to equip them well for self-reliance when they’re old enough to leave the nest. When you think about it, what kind of people want to bring children into really bad and dangerous environments? So I ask them why did you personally want them? The answer is simple: THEY wanted them because it would make THEM happy (I’m speaking of America here). How is that not selfish? I knew I personally had no interest in children, specifically spending the money and time to raise them, and when I was that young I was not yet against marriage. That took a few personal experiences of discovering the lousy nature of some females for me to finally swear it off, that and my research afterwards that led me to conclude the utter horror in divorce that a man faces from the state and the female in an unholy legal, parasitical and symbiotic partnership (they all acquire resources except the man – the ‘host’) whose apparent sole aims are to subjugate the man in perpetuity to economic bondage and the disaffection of his own children, where “female” equals “truth and good” and the “man” equals “lies and bad”. When you think of the suffering the man (‘host’) goes through in your standard divorce there really is no surprise at all when you see all the parasites attached to him sucking his blood (‘money’) – the legal system including judges and the 2 divorce attorneys and the female.
But as I grew older I no longer even bothered to engage in this conversation any longer because, even though I had no name for myself as MGTOW-ers do today, I knew I had lost the capacity to feel shame from anyone else who proferred their personal opinion on how I choose to embark on the rest of my journey through life. The best I could come up with was ‘iconoclastic independent’. I had finally arrived at the “I don’t give a dam what you or anyone else thinks about me” stage, right around the time I finally had saved up enough “FU” money. I also had finally had enough time to examine the motives of those questioning my choice of the way I chose to live my life – wtf did it matter to them, anyway? For some, they were still in the blue pill state, unquestioning what society and females seemed to demand of them to be ‘normal’, for others they were deeply envious and resentful that I was not unhappy like they were, yoked in a marriage or relationship they were too scared to leave “because of the children”. In other words, I was a threat to their worldview – how dare I be happy when they weren’t? Needless to say I have slowly parted ways with every couple I knew, usually at the hands of the female even if it was the yoked man who didn’t return my calls.
When I was 12 I knew how much time and energy children would cost and even though I had a happy childhood I saw the choices my parents had to make in their lifestyles to support us. I simply did not want to do that – selfish? Certainly, but not in the way people commonly define that term – I call it ‘rational self-interest’. I like Ayn Rand’s quotes below from “The Virtue of Selfishness”:
“Men who reject the responsibility of thought and reason can only exist as parasites on the thinking of others.”
“To love is to value. Only a rationally selfish man, a man of self esteem, is capable of love – because he is the only man capable of holding firm, consistent, uncompromising, unbetrayed value. The man who does not value himself, cannot value anything or anyone.”
“A Conformist is a man who declares, “It’s true because others believe it” – but an Individualist is NOT a man who declares, “It’s true because I believe it.” An Individual declares, “I believe it because I see in reason that it is true.”
But please note that I could not care less whether someone wants children or not – that’s entirely their decision – I simply have stated my reasons for not wanting them. Even if I now wanted children the only way I would do that is by adoption without a female’s involvement through the marriage contract – there are worse things possible than having a loving, committed father raising a child by himself, like some deranged female committing emotional terrorism on the kid during it’s upbringing.
p.s. I forget which poster here has mentioned the concept of ‘equal trade’, that is, to offer fair trades where neither party is abused in the process, but that is one of the tenets of Ayn Rands’ Objectivism philosophy, and it is a tenet that I live by but sadly have found that most females have no conception of what that actually means.
That said, is there not some biological imperative to father children?
No, the only biological imperative is to inseminate as much females as possible. And that was already so in the early stone age, when children got raised by tribes, and no-one had any idea where they came from, neither who their father was.
Has our culture disconnected sex from childbirth so much?
First humans had to find out how events which are nine months apart are caused by each other. This is not that obvious.
The MGTOW way to have a child is to adopt as a single parent or to have a surrogate mother artificially inseminated and have the baby turned over solely to you after birth. You’ll need to hire nannies or have family help raise the child during the early years. Nannies for 5 years would probably be much cheaper than all the cost that goes into getting a girlfriend, marrying her, and then her divorcing you.
The best part about this is there will never be any woman who can run to the courts to have your child ripped away from you, and for you to pay money to that bitch for a child you don’t even get to see and enjoy. You have sole custody over the child.
[url url=http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2d6337/i_was_divorce_raped_dont_be_me] I'm paying her 25% of my salary over the next eight years. I had to pay my lawyer, her lawyer, 50% of all my retirement funds and give her another few thousand dollars to make her go away. It cost me $20 to get married and will cost me over $220,000 to get divorced. [/url]
Never really wanted kids myself but I would like to add to Gref”s post about having sole custody of the child. After the 5 years of Nannies , I would also suggest home schooling because once the child is introduced into the public school system, they will be F~~~ED. ( Kudos to the younger guys on here who weren’t castrated by the system)Make no mistake…it is not about education anymore. It’s about indoctrination.
I wanted children but my ex hated kids which she lied about though out 12 years of my marriage, it was heart breaking. It’s been 5 years since my divorce. Now I have decided to dedicate my life to providing free education to poor children without parents. My extra time and extra money I have goes towards creating online motivational courses for kids so they can learn for free.
I see my two brothers who are way to busy raising their kids, they don’t have time for any one else. I realized I can use my free time to help kids who don’t have parents. If can treat others kids like my own kids then the need for having my flesh and blood is not necessary. it just my point of view. I feel great knowing that I can bring my leadership skills in leading these poor kids to a bright and successful future. I don’t have any more need to have my own kids, I am very happy helping other kids who need a father figure to show them how to be successful in life. Great post, thanks for sharing.
I think it depends on the circumstances. Up until age 39 I had managed to avoid having children altogether. Then it happened. I fell into the inescapable trap. The woman that I already hated and despised got pregnant with my child. Nevertheless, my daughter is the most beautiful little 6 year old girl I have ever laid eyes on, and I love her with every fiber of my being. Of course, as a result, I must deal with her piece of s~~~ mother on a daily basis if I choose to be “daddy”. And I do choose to be “daddy”. So for me, being MGTOW does not mean resigning myself to a childless future. However, I do consider myself to be a master at the game of life that I play with her mother. And this really is a game. Over the past 8 years that I have been with this woman, she has, of course, pulled every ace out of her sleeves imaginable. Unfortunately for her, I win the game every time, and I get to enjoy the personal fulfillment of fatherhood. So my advice to a younger man about fatherhood is this: You can be MGTOW and be a father at the same time. Some men choose it, and other men get trapped. Just keep this in mind: Before you play the game with your individual woman, make sure that your kung-fu is absolutely, overwhelmingly, positively stronger than her kung-fu. Because no matter if you choose it, or if you get trapped in it, you’re going to need some strong skills to live through it.
I can say this much…I have 2 boys. I love them dearly. While I believe all the reasons given in this thread to NOT have children are perfectly valid and sound, I also realize I would have been personally devoid of any knowledge about what is true and real love for another human being had I not had children. It’s the only pure unadulterated love I have known in this world. Perhaps this is my lesson in this life…
Having said that, I can also state emphatically if I had known how much pain would have been involved to get that love, I would have probably avoided the circumstances that brought me to it. But then I wouldn’t be who I am today. Sometimes I think life doesn’t necessarily have any “right” or “wrong” answers. There are merely choices that come with consequences both good and bad. YMMV…
“Wherever you go, there you are…”
HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...So very true. We’re all human and we do whatever we need to do in order to survive day to day. For all of us, life simply “is what it is”. As young men, I think most of us look out into the horizon and visualize our ideal future. Some want kids, some don’t. Others want love and marriage and others don’t. Some want to be doctors, and some want to be athletes. Regardless of the final destination, it will always be the “journey” that shapes us. And for most of us, we simply cannot control everything that happens on this journey. Personally, I have known the agonizing despair of having my precious child ripped from my arms based on lies and deceit. Conversely, I have also known the gratification of defeating those vicious lies, and reclaiming my rightful place as loving father. Hopefully, as the stories here unfold, we can help the younger generation decide for themselves if the risk is worth the reward.
Lodoss: You don’t belong in a cave, you belong in the sunlight sharing your story with as many people as will listen. You’re a victim of this stinking, nasty, filthy, vile, corrupt system that is in place right now. And don’t you ever let anyone try to convince you that your victimization should be relegated to some quiet, dark place where you should go to suffer in silence. You deserve better than that.
Yes we should fight back. My way of fighting back is make powerful TV shows, movies for the rest of my life on these matter. I will bring these serious matter into public eye no matter how much suffering I have to go through in the process. Justice need to be done. I will keep fighting by showing the world how serious this stuff is, I almost killed myself out of deep depression. This shut almost ended my life. What can be more serous then this. We should all do our part in our won way.
I do like kids and feel sorry for the ones growing up in the information age.I think it has become easier now to exploit children with the internet and a parent must remain ever vigilant.I wouldn’t say regret though because I do get involved in helping the kids who are already here and in this age where it seems life is more and more disposable I think it is important.
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