People who are planning on going into accounting or computer programming

[Enjoy The DeclineParticipant 1719]

Computer Programmer Profile

If you go to this link, you will see that the amount of people that work as a computer programmer is forecasted to decrease by 8% from 2014 to 2024.

Bookkeeping, Accounting and Auditing clerk Profile

If you go to this link, you will see that this group of jobs is also forecasted to be in a 8% decline from 2014 to 2024.

Now the question is, why are these jobs that require skill and math declining in job populations in the next few years. The answer is because these jobs are becoming outsourced overseas or they can be outsourced overseas. You see, when I did an accounting course, they were saying something about standardizing a lot of things about accounting internationally and they even have a federation for it. Also, if you even read in the outlook section of the computer programmer profile, it even says that computer programming jobs are being outsourced.

So overall, do not listen to people on youtube like Aaron Clarey or computer programming veterans that post here like Stealthy. Everything is going to be fine now, but I can just see these jobs cannibalizing themselves in like 15-20 years from now. I say that you should only go into computer programming if you are really gifted or if you are even planning on making your own computer programming empire like I am planning on doing since you cannot really outsource ideas. As for accounting, well all I kept on hearing is how Canada has like a 3-4% unemployment rate for bookkeepers and that it is a very stable job right now so let’s see how they will do even when they are declining in jobs in the U.S while the population is increasing. There was a time also when you can become a bookkeeper with just a high school diploma, but now you need an associate’s diploma to stay competitive. I can just see in the future you might even start needing an accounting degree.

I hope I am a help to some people in giving some insight in the future so that you can better prepare yourself in the future as a whole. My final word of advice is to try to do jobs that you cannot outsource and maybe that advice can help you know what you should do in the future.

"Question everything" - Albert Einstein

[TuneoutParticipant]

Enjoy The Decline wrote:

Canada has like a 3-4% unemployment rate for bookkeepers and that it is a very stable job right now so let’s see how they will do even when they are declining in jobs in the U.S while the population is increasing. There was a time also when you can become a bookkeeper with just a high school diploma, but now you need an associate’s diploma to stay competitive. I can just see in the future you might even start needing an accounting degree.

I know of hotels who hire night auditors and small bus

who use bookkeepers that only have a basic community

college accounting/book keeping diploma.

Lifes a bitch,but you don't have to marry one!

[clint englandParticipant 341]

Having a trade and being good at it, is pretty solid. Especially being an electricion or plumber.

I’m a plasterer myself but if i had my time over, i would have gone with the above. As plastering, bricklaying etc or wet trades as they are known do tend to suffer during times of recession. As well as the physical toll of these jobs too.

Plumbing and electrics on the other hand always need fixing!

[Anonymous 16]

Thanks hell i became a doc. My ass usually is Safe?

[TaxGuyParticipant]

The accounting jobs they are talking about are the very low end jobs. The higher end stuff isn’t going anywhere. I have been at a couple of worldwide accounting firms. They’ve tried outsourcing the tax compliance overseas or to lower cost places in the US. It always fails. And if those guy can’t make it work, it won’t work. Copper wire was invented by two accounting partners fighting over a penny.

The other thing they don’t tell you is how many people are retiring from those jobs in the next ten years. With the baby boom retiring left and right, you could go into a job with an 8% decline in the next ten years, but if 20% of the workforce retires it is still in demand.

We have trouble finding qualified people in my area. That may change, but if the US ever gets serious about tax reform, there will be a lot of old guys that will just call it quits rather than learn an entirely new tax code. That happened back in 1986, which was the last time we had a total tax reform. We are WAY past due for a new tax code.

Finally, it doesn’t matter if a company makes a billion dollars or loses a billion, they still have to tell big daddy government about it.

Just my two cents.

Order the good wine

[Enjoy The DeclineParticipant 1719]

TaxGuy wrote:

The other thing they don’t tell you is how many people are retiring from those jobs in the next ten years. With the baby boom retiring left and right, you could go into a job with an 8% decline in the next ten years, but if 20% of the workforce retires it is still in demand.

After seeing the bookkeeping profile at a Quebec job site where it even showed graphs of all the age groups and their proportion percentages of the people in the profession profile in general, I think that your 2 cents at least proved that maybe I was wrong about not having much opportunities with the low level accounting professions in the future.

Tuneout wrote:

I know of hotels who hire night auditors and small bus

who use bookkeepers that only have a basic community

college accounting/book keeping diploma.

And I believe you:)

"Question everything" - Albert Einstein

[~BSParticipant 3266]

my .02 – across most white collar professions, you’re going to see the lower level functions outsourced or automated. Bookkeeping for example, was hugely manual with large technical knowledge required decades ago. Now it’s becoming more and more automated. As the computer systems get better and as the internet is used more and more, a lot of the manual work and knowhow the bookkeepers do will disappear.

Example: Once a business transaction takes place, if the system itself records the transaction, codes it, cuts the check, of what use is the book keeper? Instead of 10 bookkeepers, now maybe all you need is 1 senior bookkeeper to review the computer’s entries and post adjustments, if necessary.

The higher level programming and accounting and whatever else isn’t going to disappear. The problem with getting a degree in most white collar fields now is that decades of pushing people towards college degrees created a glut, and there’s way more people graduating than there are jobs.

Right now, in accounting and programming, there’s a large shortage of workers, but only in the mid to upper end range. And companies are avoiding committing resources to train grads to fill them. So if you are already experienced, there is no shortage of job opportunities for you, now or in the future. This is especially true when the baby boomers start exiting the top level positions over the next 10 years. But it’s hard to get your foot in the door, so to speak, when faced with increasing competition and decreasing lower level positions.

The irony as far as mgtow is concerned, is that women disproportionately tend to hold and stay in these lower position jobs, just as you see them working cashiering or restaurant or bank teller or other jobs of this nature. So the job market for women is likely going to get a lot tighter as technology improves.

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

[ResidentEvil7Participant 9540]

Very discouraging news.

https://themanszone.webs.com/

[KrombopulosMichaelParticipant 8]

So overall, do not listen to people on youtube like Aaron Clarey or computer programming veterans that post here like Stealthy. Everything is going to be fine now, but I can just see these jobs cannibalizing themselves in like 15-20 years from now.

I seriously doubt that. The programming jobs that are currently being outsourced demand repetitive, low-creativity “code monkey” work that relies mostly on slapping together code from existing libraries/frameworks. This trend will likely continue, and is possibly the reason for the 8% drop. However, the programming jobs that demand close communication with the client/s, attention to detail, an eye for design and/or a high level of creativity will not go away anytime soon. The reason is that companies simply cannot outsource these types of jobs without severely losing on quality. It’s why when a company needs a mid-to-large scale app built from scratch, they highly prefer US-based companies to the guys in India or China.

[~BSParticipant 3266]

^

Exactly. Oursourcing of higher level, more technical work was already tried, across all white collar professions. Companies would LOVE to oursource 100k plus work to someone making peanuts in a 3rd world country. The reason it hasn’t happened yet is because they can’t. You aren’t going to outsource technical engineering or architecture work to someone with a degree from Indian Tech. You aren’t going to let a guy from Chinese community college handle your 100k+ individual tax returns and business returns. You’re only able to assign the most menial stuff to them, and even then they get that s~~~ wrong a lot of the time (believe me) leading your normal staff having to review and fix their screwups.

The only way these jobs would get outsourced is if the skill gap and language barriers both ceases to exist. I can’t see this happening anytime soon, but I suppose it’s possible… Once this happens, then the main factors would be the cheaper foreign pay (how much cheaper would it be if they actually attained highly specialized experience), and the hassle of having people off-site doing the work mainly communicating through email. Video conferencing possible, but still not as easy as calling a quick meeting to get everyone on the same page or walking the next cubicle over to collaborate.

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

[Enjoy The DeclineParticipant 1719]

So we come to an agreement that the low end of the computer programmer and accounting fields have a high chance to get outsourced. That still means that the future computer programmer or accountant can’t get their foot on the ground as easily to find and do jobs that not many people wish to do before they can actually prove themselves and have a high chance to take some of the more serious jobs.

I for example, seen a program where I live that is a sort of community college diploma, where they teach many of the same computer programming scripts/languages that have the same sort of way of writing which is basically javascript, java, c#, and the android development platform. If you already learned one of those languages, you would already then know almost all of the other three types of languages, because they all sort of are made with mostly the same syntax. At one point of my life, I was very passionate about programming, and I even learned java in school, which means that I already have had practice with how those four computer programming platforms I mentioned earlier could be written.

But in the end, is it even worth going into this program? If you really want to take computer programming seriously, I guess that it is either going to get your bachelor’s in computer programming in university, or do not even bother trying. This is how I see it now.

"Question everything" - Albert Einstein

[KrombopulosMichaelParticipant 8]

But in the end, is it even worth going into this program? If you really want to take computer programming seriously, I guess that it is either going to get your bachelor’s in computer programming in university, or do not even bother trying. This is how I see it now.

If you just want a decent-paying, cushy job as a programmer and nothing more, you can do so without a degree. You’d just need to be dedicated enough to self-teach, and figure out a way to demonstrate your skill to the employer (perhaps through portfolio projects).

That being said, it’s been noted that self-thought programmers generally have a much worse understanding of the fundamentals of their field, compared to CS grads. Some employers screen for this, others don’t. A solid understanding of data structures and algorithms may not be necessary for everyday work if you’re a web developer, but the fact is that you will never be a great programmer without it. Thus, if you’re ambitious about programming, want to be highly-valued in the field and get the “hot” job, and/or plan to get into research, the fundamentals you’ll learn through a CS degree will give you a huge leg up.

[~BSParticipant 3266]

It’s hard to say whether long term we will see mostly outsourced labor at the bottom end or a continuation of the “race to the bottom” in terms of salaries. If starting salaries remain stagnated or fall further, it’ll reach an equilibrium point with outsourced labor.

I think people that really apply themselves would still be able to make a good career out of it, and anything else for that matter…

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

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