Outcome Independence

[RockmaninoffParticipant 1641]

Hello, gents,

I want to talk about outcome independence. To begin, let’s have a definition: if, in a situation that could go one of two ways, a man preserves his equanimity despite the situation going in the way he did not prefer, he is said to be outcome independent.

I think such an attitude is not only essential for MGTOW (since true contentment can come only from within and not by external factors), but it can also end up getting what you want to get.

I remember when I was scrambling for a job, finally landed one, and was going to accept. I still had a job interview lined up, but I had this insouciant attitude about the whole thing, and I was much happier. I went into the interview not giving a s~~~ which way it went—and, what do you know, not only did I get the job, but they’re going to be paying me more than my first offer! Overnight, my problem went from not having enough jobs to having TOO MANY jobs.

Did my outcome independence in that situation help? Maybe. Who knows? I certainly felt better during the entire process.

So it may seem like outcome independence is a no-brainer—but then again, maybe not. Is not a man’s passionate desire to see a certain result come to fruition how everything good in this world exists? Isn’t every computer, chip, network, skyscraper there because some engineer/architect wanted to build something a little too much? You can’t have a passionate desire destroyed and not be upset; an engineer whose building collapses must feel a certain horror. For example, I would not be happy if I didn’t finish my novel; my happiness is contingent on an outcome: my finishing the novel.

So is there a balance to be had? Maybe one ought to be outcome independent in events the outcome of which you don’t control, and be outcome dependent in events you do? How does one truly adopt an attitude of outcome independence?

". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée

[VarunParticipant 2981]

Rockmaninoff wrote:

So is there a balance to be had? Maybe one ought to be outcome independent in events the outcome of which you don’t control, and be outcome dependent in events you do? How does one truly adopt an attitude of outcome independence?

I have a theory, the more you care about something, the more concerned you are about the outcome; the less you care, the lesser is the concern.

Outcome independence is highly dependent on skills. For eg. if you’re a skilled fisherman, you don’t go out fishing thinking “Oh! If I don’t catch a fish today, I might go hungry tonight!” No, the attitude is more like “Wonder how many I will catch today, 20 or 200?”

I used to be scared of public speaking and fumbled a lot on-stage; I never had a lot of practice in speaking… but people who spoke everyday in front of large audience, they didn’t have no care in the word if they slipped off a word or two.

So I believe outcome independence is largely based on skills and confidence. If you know what you’re up against, if you have no fear, no jelly-legs, then it will work for you 99% of the time.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Anonymous 42]

A foot note: I was thinking about Stealthy and higher standards he sets for other guys going through divorce and time spent in misery. Then I think about other members that show up slandering other members questioning their independence, their direction, their MGTOW.

You guys that are still shackled to the system by the legal binding contract of marriage and actively planning your escape, even bettering your life while being crucified by c~~~centric system are to be commended!

It’s easy as f~~~ being independent having terminated relationships with the worst women this world has EVER had to offer! Look at my Avatar, you think that s~~~ would have been allowed to happen with c~~~leash on my neck? I turned my little neck of this condemned campground from overgrown forest to paradise! I started harvesting trees DECADES AGO, No overhanging trees above the power lines in my vicinity.

Once you’re baptized in the fires of MGTOW, and truly lust for independence and subsequent freedom there’s no turning back! It’s like launching the cliffs at Stow, you point em straight after studying a line past the landing zone, Jay’s the same way, their motto is “ski good or eat wood”.

Same with MGTOW, our motto should be “don’t try, just fly”…

[Dr. SableParticipant 1064]

Rockmaninoff wrote:

Hello, gents,
So is there a balance to be had? Maybe one ought to be outcome independent in events the outcome of which you don’t control, and be outcome dependent in events you do? How does one truly adopt an attitude of outcome independence?

Well, a good post and a good question. My thoughts are that if you get bogged down too much about outcome you can and can’t control may be pointless. You can control some of it, most of it or none at all. So talking about finding balance has just as many problems if you can not control everything you want to in order to be outcome independent, it is just the way it is.
I would prefer to stick to a minimum and build on it and not go crazy because I did not achieve the maximum
in outcome independent state.

For some odd reason this post reminds me of old primary school tongue twisters.

Zero Tolerance

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

For me, the best strategy for outcome independence is to be pursuing multiple outcomes simultaneously, so that I am never forced to depend on a single outcome. Applying for multiple jobs and scheduling multiple interviews simultaneously is a good example of this. Identifying particular needs as critical (paying bills), it’s also worthwhile to have as many layers of strategies for meeting those needs as possible. A job is great. A job + a side job is better. A job + multiple side jobs and a rental property or dividend paying investment(s) is better.

It is WAY better in terms of outcome independence then, to live in a small house, and drive a small car, and maybe even grow some of you own food, while having savings and some investments… than to live in a big house with a big car and take on maximum debt in order to do so. A big house and big car are not critical needs. A crushing debt load will make you more and more dependent on things you cannot necessarily control, and will chain you to a job that may present you with an ever increasing pile of crap to take along with the paycheck it provides.

A big house is nice, but money invested brings freedom and independence…

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

All MGTOW should be outcome independent. Outcomes cannot be controlled [too many variables]. What can be managed is our character in dealing with the process and the outcomes [favorable or unfavorable].

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[RockmaninoffParticipant 1641]

Varun wrote:

I never had a lot of practice in speaking… but people who spoke everyday in front of large audience, they didn’t have no care in the word if they slipped off a word or two.

I find that when I’m playing piano for fun by myself, with no one around, where I can just let it go and not give a s~~~ about technique, accuracy, etc., my playing sounds awesome. As soon as a single person is watching me—my playing goes to s~~~.

The more I’m terrified of making a mistake in front of a person, the more mistakes I make. Recently, I adopted the attitude: “I’m king of this piano, I’ll playing whatever notes I damn well please, and you don’t get to say s~~~ about it”—and my performance gets that much better.

". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée

[VarunParticipant 2981]

Rockmaninoff wrote:

The more I’m terrified of making a mistake in front of a person, the more mistakes I make. Recently, I adopted the attitude: “I’m king of this piano, I’ll playing whatever notes I damn well please, and you don’t get to say s~~~ about it”—and my performance gets that much better.

Me too. Though once a life coach visited our school and hosted a program where he assured us timid ones he’d remove our ‘stage fear’. What he did was spit us into groups of five and asked each group to act like whatever they felt like: animals, babies, clowns/mimes, dancers or children. We chose animals.

I remember when our turn came, I had no stage fear at all. I screamed like a tiger and did not give a s~~~ about whether others were watching or not. Everybody who knew me was shocked that I could ever act like that.

The trick was: there was no pressure. We weren’t expected to ‘act’ in a particular way. That’s why we could perfectly play our roles, though however simple it may have been.

Isn’t that what happens in real life too? With the plethora of responsibilities unloaded upon us, we are forced to ‘act in one particular way’ which makes it harder for us to comply with.

But as soon as you’re free to do what you want, you don’t have that pressure anymore. It is only in that state that you can excel in whatever you choose to do.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Author]

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