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What’s up everyone, I’ve been watching some MGTOW videos and and reading some blogs, and I’m having a hard time trying to understand the whole concept. The last two years have been a really roller coaster of experiences and emotions for me, and thanks to that my eyes have been opened to some women mind games and behavior. So, before i jump straight to MGTOW I’d want to grasp the concept first, so thank you in advance for any help provided.
Hi ShotDunyun,
Welcome! Im very new here myself, both to the forums and the ideas.
I had originally typed out a whole block of text trying to answer your question, but honestly, man.. This seems like something that has to come from within yourself. The groundwork is being done here, by people more articulate then me, so read, watch, learn. Hear them out and make a decision for yourself if this is for you. I sincerely hope it is, but ultimately this is a pill you have to swallow for yourself.
I do think you should give this a watch though, and if you can make it through, ask yourself after if that is really something you want to experience?
All the best on your journey!
Welcome Shot’…
I think I understand your situation a little. It can be tough to look around and feel like you’re the only one who is aware of something that so many other people might disagree with. This does not necessarily make your observations wrong. It just requires a little more determination to maintain them. If it will help, you are in the same situation as the first people to look at racism, or the flat earth theory, or the theory that the sun revolves around the earth, or the theory of the divine right of kings… and say ‘this doesn’t seem right…’. There was a time when the first people to look at these things and see them as not quite right, were just a few individuals of the entire populations around them. And they were not necessarily appreciated for it. At some of those times, you could have been burned at the stake for questioning the prevailing assertions held by the majority.Fortunately, the days of being burned at the stake for challenging an idea have passed. You can question the prevailing expectations placed on men in western countries without fear of being burned or beheaded. And if you question that expected role of men and decide that it does seem ok with you, and you’d like to accept it, no one is going to burn or behead you for that either (although this assurance does not apply to any woman you marry…she will be able to do to you just about whatever the hell she chooses).
But if you’re just on the fence and starting to question the expected role for you, but are not yet sure, there is one thing that may help you gain some perspective…to the extent that history is a predictor of the future.
One of the things that helped me and a few other people I know come to decisions about women is this exercise: Imagine that you had back all at one time, all the money you ever spent on women. Imagine all the cover charges, drinks and dinners you picked up tabs for, movie and concert tickets and other entertainment you spent for, vacations you may have taken them on, dating sites you may have spent for… everything. Even the cologne you bought that you likely would not have bought except for the dates you wore it on. Include gas to pick them up and drive them around etc etc etc… Imagine you had back all that money all at one time right now.
Now imagine all the time and effort you spent thinking and acting in such a way as to attempt to adequately meet the expectations and requirements that were necessary for you to meet in order to succeed with women…whatever your definition of success with women is. Imagine you had all that time and effort and physical, mental and emotional energy back at all once. Include the time and energy and patience in dealing with whatever demands that were placed on you by all the women you’ve ever know over all the years you’ve been old enough to pursue them…pms fueled tantrums, bad moods, fights etc. Include all of that too.
Now, imagine every positive thing you’ve ever gotten back from all those women you’ve known over all those years. include all the sex, company, cooking, laughs… whatever it was that was positive that any of the women you’ve ever pursued ever brought into your life as reciprocity for all the things on that first list you made of everything you sacrificed to get those positive benefits back from women.
Now, imagining that you had back all those things you sacrificed, ask yourself if, given the choice and knowing in advance exactly what you were going to get back from women for those sacrifices… would you agree to that same exchange again?
For a growing number of men in western countries, it has not been worth it and they no longer have any hope that it ever will be. Those who have given up that hope are not making any further sacrifice to try to meet those expectations. They are already mgtow.
There are perhaps a lucky few men who can actually say it was an equitable exchange that they would voluntarily make again. If you are one of those, congratulations on your good fortune. No one will fault you for engaging in a fair exchange. However, we will warn you of our historical experience that indicates, at least to us, that the terms of the exchange with women do tend to change over time…subject to not much more than their whim.
And because of the trends in government, the media, the courts, etc. You will not be able to hold any woman to the terms of any agreements that she has previously made. The worst mistake you can make is to marry one by signing on to a marriage contract. If you’ve never heard of a marriage described as a contract, keep reading through this site as this is probably the most useful single insight you can gain from it. If you do sign such a contract, the woman will then control the terms of what you will provide and what you can expect, and the state will enforce just about any terms she chooses to dictate.
Without knowing more details about your specific situation, it’s hard to give you specific insights. But I can tell you that all healthy relationships are voluntary, and if you are considering volunteering for one, it is your sole responsibility to do whatever you have to do to make sure you understand what the terms are, and what they will be. This site can help you understand how those terms have changed in the last several decades, and give you some better insights into where those terms are now.
Happy to see you here. Welcome again.
Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you
ShotDunyun: YO ListenUp! here. welcome to the site man. thanks for the humble and cordial first post. we can dig it man!
The website has so much info on it that even though I came here at mgtow (without knowing there was a name for it) I spent well over 100 hours reading articles and watching the videos on the front page of the site before posting my story and introducing myself. It is a lot to wrap your head around at first for sure.
I will say this though: I don’t see any reason to conclude anything, rush into anything, or jump up and down trying to get noticed. Best approach is to read the material, watch the videos, and come to your own conclusions. MGTOW is not a movement…just a set of ideas and strategies for the 21st Century. Embrace the stories and facts that make sense to you, and disregard the rest. Every man is doing this in whatever way makes sense to them. Have fun on site and welcome!
Anonymous11ShotDunyun:
Welcome. I am new here too, but to paraphrase part of BrainPilot’s excellent welcome expose every bit of pleasure I have ever received from my numerous relationships with women over the years both romantic and platonic has always been ruined by them eventually turning on me like a rabid coon for no reason. (Raccoon, if you’re not in North America).
The cool thing about MGTOW is that it’s all about you and your personal life path as a free man. We also like to call out the dysfunction feminism has brought upon our culture. For some, it means no contact with any women. For others, such as myself, contact is OK, but it will only be on terms that are beneficial to me. This forum is a place where we can learn from each other. Women are way more organized than we are in the mutual sharing of relations~~~ knowledge. The budding forum is for us to share our experiences and teach each other whether they like it or not. We don’t care really care what they think about it either.
Good luck in your quest! For the record, I am a recovering blue piller/white knight who has finally learned that the red pill is right for me.
“So, before I jump straight to MGTOW I’d want to grasp the concept first
Well, a basic concept of MGTOW is understanding female nature. We accept female nature for what it is, not what we would wish it to be. If you understand nothing else understand this…
Females do not love YOU, they love what you do for them or how you make them feel, but they do not love you.
This is apparent in the hypergamy they display in their actions. It is the central basis of gynocentrism that is the root of civilization itself. Women leverage their sexual marketplace value in everything they do. But because they are ruled by the emotional side of their brain they cannot sustain themselves without men.
Females have always held superior rights and places in society (usually via proxy). The Feminist myth of male oppression of women serves only as means of creating a Female Supremacist culture.
MGTOW recognize we as men are being cast as villains in the emerging social narrative, thus opening us up to victimization via government enforced mandates. Going your own way is a means of self defense without engaging in conflict with feminist apparatchik. Simply put, we disengage to as great a degree possible from women and society as they are the main threats to our continued health, wealth and happiness.
MGTOW is different for every man, there are no leaders or orthodoxy
We the MGTOW community are merely here to give you the benefit of our experience and allow you to make your own decision as to what you do with your life. You can date and deal with women as you deem right. Some have even suggested that a married man can be MGTOW, it seems rather in-congruent to me, but it’s not my call.Only you know what is best for you, and all other men here will respect your decision whatever it may be. You don’t need the approval of anyone to do what you think best for you.
Anyhow, look around… explore, question, analyze, contemplate. Going your own way is about you, not any of us.
Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....
Welcome Shotdunyun and great post Smitty!
Yes, MGTOW is an individualist movement. I had my eyes open up when I was 25 and am 41 now. During those sixteen years I had (limited) sexual relationships with women but rejected any effort to turn it into something else. Now that I’m 41, own a house, savings and retirement plan the rejection of a relationship is because of the skewed divorce laws and not wanting to part with my hard earned assets.
Try Mgtow for a while and decide for yourself. Find something you enjoy and do it.
First of all thank you for all the replies.
Vidar: I will do that dude, this ideology is making more sense to me everyday
BrainPilot: Damn, that was a hell of a comment, I appreciate your time and effort. I do feel sometimes that I’m the only one out there thinking differently about gender’s roles, so it helps thinking about it the way you put it
ListenUp!: The idea of that MGTOW it’s not a movement but more a set of ideas allures me, so I’ll do the same thing as you, research a lot
ChauvinistPig: First, great nickname, and its interesting to read that MGTOW is different to each of us, thanks for the help
Smitty: Thank you for the concepts in bold, especially the first one, that makes me want to swallow the red pill more and more
Voidraithe: It’s great to see that you’re on your fourties and enyoing it. And it’s awesome to see that is possible to have a good live with that ideology.
So, it seems that I don’t want to cut my contact with women completely because I enjoy to spend time with some of them. And I’m talking specially about sex, for all my life I’ve been lucky on that aspect, but they always end f~~~ing me up somehow. How do you handle that?
Thank you again boys
ShotDunyun: cool man, no worries. it took me awhile to see why it isn’t a movement but it really isn’t. it really is an individual thing. my job depends on me interacting with people and tons of them in the public so i can’t discuss mgtow with people or i will lose my work and reputation out there. so no banners, buttons, bumper stickers for me man. that’s another reason i think everyone should think quite a bit about this before trying to talk about it or go public. the power of the truths in this concept is very strong and volatile indeed….and just like in the movies some people can’t handle the truth.
ShotDunyun: You get what you pay for. For now your only spending your time researching and talking to the members.
worth= what you are willing to give in exchange for something period.
value=usefulness as determined by the customer or end user.
value can not be predetermined. You must have opportunity to make an assessment how useful a product is.
I find value in associating with these men. I am 52 and still learn things even from the young men here.
It only cost you what time you are willing to give nothing more. You determine its true value.
The value of having full situational awareness at the price of your free time.
Do you really have to think about it?? get off the fence. If you decide to associate with the UN-fairer sex, you will at least, have the knowledge and tools to do it on your own terms.
I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
Some great posts in here… fantastic summary of the basic issues there, Smitty, and about the fair exchange of values, harpomason.
ShotDunyun: many of us believe it is still possible to interact with females… to enjoy their company, be amused by them and to have sex with them… so long as you’re doing so with your eyes open as to the dangers involved. I am personally a big advocate of vasectomy to protect yourself form “baby jail” and of never letting a female get a foothold in your home or in your heart but I don’t think they are “deadly at any speed” or to be avoided at all costs.
On the other hand, I think the further you go down the rabbit hole, the less and less you will want to associate with females, kind of the same way your tastes shift from sugary sweets to more savory favors as your palate matures. I still have my moments of weakness and while I try to avoid media messages and experiences that push me back toward being a tool of the system again, they do catch up to me now and then. An Audrey Hepburn film festival, for example, could send me into a tailspin of wanting to go find some skinny, scared and broken little girl and save her from herself… but then I just have to remember the numerous times I’ve tried doing that already and how miserable it made my life and the feeling passes.
So you don’t have to try to cut females out of your life if you’re not ready for that yet… nobody is going to blame you for wanting to get laid or wanting to feel loved… but in time those desires will pass on their own and you’ll replace them with things that actually do make you feel happy, fulfilled and powerful in your own life.
What’s up everyone, I’ve been watching some MGTOW videos and and reading some blogs, and I’m having a hard time trying to understand the whole concept. The last two years have been a really roller coaster of experiences and emotions for me, and thanks to that my eyes have been opened to some women mind games and behavior. So, before i jump straight to MGTOW I’d want to grasp the concept first, so thank you in advance for any help provided.
Well, to begin you have four levels of MGTOW and to structure your life going forward (as well as your development, rounding up your resources, planning, etc.) it’s best to determine which Level you are. Once you have discovered what Level you are and will be going forward, then a lot of the additional questions can be answered just through basic organization and planning.
– Level 1: These are men who are aware of the realities of dealing with American women, feminism and the Family Court, but still proceed with long term legal relationships in terms of making children, cohabitation, and/or getting married to American women believing that they can “strategically manage” the risks involved.
– Level 2: These are men who are aware of the realities of dealing with American women, feminism and the Family Court, and as a result they reject all forms of long term legal relationships in terms of making children, cohabitation, and/or getting married to American women. Instead, these men just do short term relationships such as relationships lasting less than 2 years, just dating, friends with benefits, and/or dealing with escorts. (This is the level I’m at)
– Level 3: These are men who are aware of the realities of dealing with American women, feminism and the Family Court, and as a result reject all forms of romantic relationships with women (long legal relationships and short term relationships), and only deal with women in a professional/business related aspect.
– Level 4: These are men who do everything listed under Level 3, but they add to this an Economic disengagement/strict Minimalist lifestyle where they decide to not work as hard or as long, and live on very little (but get by) due to the American tax system and its structure to help bail American women out of irresponsible decisions.
ShotDunyun:
Like many MGTOW, I’ve been burned in my relationships with women. I like to think there might be someone suitable out there somewhere, but I think that’s highly unlikely. I won’t lower my standards because, each time I’ve done it in the past, I had nothing but grief. (And, no, I’m not expecting that the ideal woman for me will have the mind of a Nobel Prize scientist and look like a Victoria’s Secret model.)
I would rather be safe than sorry for the rest of my life.
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