On a crossroad

[AshcroftParticipant 59]

Hey,

 

so since I became aware of MGTOW and the issues that feminism is bringing to our world, some interesting things have happened. Let me recount these a little bit:

 

1.

Since about 10 years I am interested in men-development and the stand of men in todays society. It first appeared to me, when I was in my first serious relationship during highschool.

2. I stopped looking into it for many years, but begun to surround myself with these topics again, since the beginning of april this year. Roughly 2,5 months. The reason for it, being a relationship that started out looking good, but went sour even before getting into serious waters. You can read the whole story here in my other forum post.

3. Before the “relationship” I was doing ok with women. I have seen the f~~~ed up s~~~ they are doing, especially at work to put others in bad waters, but I didn’t have the b~~~~ to call them out on their self obssesing bulls~~~. I have two fairly good female friends I am in regular contact. They are far from what I would call attractive, but somehow, they kept beeing interested in me over the years and so I didn’t see to cut these ties. I got laid with other women over the years, but always still bought into the mainstream media type of thinking about women. The stuff you read in gynocentric books like “Men come from mars, women from venus” or other media, where women are always portrait as innocent, weak, intelligent (there is not one dumb women out there… yeah right) and the overall better gender. I actually swallowed the blue pill my whole life long. I was always looking out for what I was still doing wrong, although I did everything what was written in these f…. books. Still relationships sunk faster than they begun. I never felt in total control about the interaction with women. There was always something off, because I adopted the view as described by the media and treated women differently than guys. I let stuff slip, I would have called guys out on or put them down for. I have always felt more comfortable around men. The last weeks opened my eyes, but the last days have given me some struggling moments as well.

The main influence for me has been Bill Burr, Bill Maher and most importantly Tom Leykis. I am listening to a lot of his shows on youtube and were I compare myself to the guy I was in April, there is now a big a-hole and jerk womenwise if I want to. I have to say, the stuff he teaches works. I have listened to uncountable amounts of girls on his show and in my own life saying that he is exact on the money with his stuff. It is the truth! Though I am still not sure what the right number of crazy women and good, marriage material is. 80/20? 99/1? Definitly above 80/20.

This brought me a lot of cool and aha moments as well, as I was looking through the s~~~ women try to pull on us. And whenever I told them their s~~~ I saw how the curtain fell down and, wow, they were strucked for a moment because nobody else or just a few had the b~~~~ to say these things to their faces.

So as womens respect for me grew, I at the same time had some heavy conversations with guys. You really have to ask yourself who is living in the dark here. And you guys have to help me out on this, because I thought that I was on a very good way before I started listening to Toms show and other MGTOW youtubers towards creating a good future for me careerwise and being in a good surrounding  where I feel at ease with myself and happy. The stuff has influenced me in such a critical area, when talking to other guys, that I often feel that other guys see me now as an a-hole who is eg. unreliable and/or typical attributes of somebody who doesn’t give a single f~~~ about what women think or do. Are they feared? I don’t know what it is. It really seems to be a pill that is so strong that when you swallow it, it affects you in such a critical area of human interactions. We all sort of compete or? My friends are my homebase, where I can recharge and feel at ease. I need there companionship and friendship to get through the hard university tasks we have. But I now ask myself if this new found opinion in me is putting things in danger I value very high in life. What’s they way forward? Should I tune it down or be like water when I sense that somebody still kisses a womens butt? I know from past experience, that this way I will eventually pick up the old gynocentric view. The stuff yous ay gets into your mind and the other way around as well. It’s like a self feeding process, how you change your perception and opinion about the world. This chasm I feel I am in right now, or decision phase, is what has been leading me to write it down and ask you guys for advice.

I eg. had and have a good relationship with my next door neighbor. We often talk about girls. As soon as my mind changed, listening to Tom Leykis everyday, I could not tell him the stuff I would have told him anymore before. Now I have the mindset, after hearing and seeing women behave so badly towards men these days, that I developed a totally different point of view. I see them as lying, cheating bitches, who took the advice feminists gave them over the top. They cheat more, lie and manipulate their way through life and sucking a poor bastards soul and wallet empty without the poor f~~~er saying a word as long as he is kept on his weekly/montly/sad* yearly dossies of pussy.

I have been raised by parents who are still together. It has been my goal to get married one day. Not in my twenties but when I will have my life sorted out with a good job with future perspectives (studying right now) and stability. I am now trending towards a 40%  chance of ever getting married if I could. I could have been married by the way, but refused to because I wanted to get to know more girls after my first serious relationship. In these regards I assume I have unbeknownst followed Toms rules.

Society here (a western country in europe) is totally adopting the main stream media gyocentric point of view. I for my part have made exeptional experiences after adopting Tom Leykis advice. From the girl I banged I was called a jerk numerous times before we banged. I grabbed what I wanted and I got what I wanted. I felt good beeing called a jerk. This experience underlined the advice for me I first heard on Toms show. And I develop a deeper understanding for the theorem that a-holes and jerks get all the girls. It is true.

But what bothers me is that apparently guys see me as competition now and make our both lives therefor uncomfortable. I am a good looking guy. I never had serious problems getting attention from girls, but I nevertheless have been pussy whipped as a lot of you as well. I never knew how a-holes and jerks became like that or if they have always been like that. I am not a guy who runs from relationship to relationship. Far from it. But I assume that after having had lots of relationships and getting hurt numerous times men develop into a-holes. That’s at least true for me. Have I searched for the mistake almost exclusively on my behavior before in and out of relationships I now don’t do that anymore and see relationships in a much more logical approach and see the s~~~ that is going on in a much clearer way than before.

Last thursday I have been to a big party with friends and I talked with a guy I once talked a little bit with on a other party. I knew that he has a girlfriend and we talked about three bitches who have been with us at the other party and as I was explaining my views I noticed that he is a full blown blue piller despite having a girl friend. Now, some time into the conversation his glass was empty and he said he’ll go to a bar to refill it. I then got the feeling that he grew quiet uncomfortable hearing the new I was bringing about women. I was also drunk and when I am drunk I don’t think to much about how that could impact the other one. It’s like a dam breaks and whatever my opinion on a particular topic is and however I restrained myself to keep stuff in hopefully not to be seen as a crazy person, when I got the opportunity to talk about relationship issues and women, words came flying out of my mouth. At one point I asked him what he wanted to do if his girlfriend left him and when he said that he hoped and is positive that she won’t, I asked him in a harsher tone “But if??” That was right shortly before he wanted something new to drink, but I think he could not stand to hear it. He probably knew what was up in his relationship and who is wearing the trousers? Since when has it become normal and acceptable to say that “women wear the trousers in a relationship”. I hear that so many times. Would anybody have asked that in the 50s? I doubt it.

Before this little thing with that girl, I would have led an unharmful nice conversation with the same opinion about women as he has with him. No offence, no nothing, just rambling about pussy. We would have talked an hour or two and nobody would have left with anything critical and new.

Right now, I feel I am on a trip and ask myself if I am right or if for my own sake should better restrain or soften/damped the opinion in me. I had this feeling in the past as well, when I found a new way of thinking about certain stuff or living in a certain uncommon way I felt would better my life, but quickly noticed when talking about it with others, they would think it is not right. How to see if something is important to keep it? I have mostly been living with my parents in the past when that happened. So mostly they would be opposed to changes in lifestyle or uncommon philosophy.

What gave me the kicker to seriously question this whole deal was, when I drove home just a day later with somebody I have shared a ride with before. He makes an impression on me that he seems to have his life sorted and is happy and thoughtful. He also appears to have no money problems, but about that you can never be fully sure. He is driving a great car, though with lots of kilometers on it, but it’s a great car nevertheless. He studied business (I also know that they have a good ability to come off as successful, although they might be the opposite), is self employed on the side and manages the production of a metal working company. He just ordered an almost new 530d BMW.

I was quite tired from the party the night before, just had 2 hours of sleep, and when tired it is hard for me to control every thought as I would like to. I normally would have not cut the topic of women, but somehow we started talking about it. I don’t know if he is in a relationship. He eg. at one time said, that if the women is to intellectually evolved she would not get a man unfortunately, because she would be bored by him. I for once said to the broad in the other topic of mine, that if I want to gave an intelligent conversation I don’t have to go out with a girl :).  He clearly adopted the mainstream opinion about women. I sitting next to him saw myself restraining the thoughts I had and what I wanted to say. I even agreed with him in one point, although I have a total contrarian opinion on that topic, just to avoid arguing about it or me trying teach myself to fit in better in these situations in the future, although thinking differently like 95% of people.

I now seriously question how I move on with everything I heard, saw and experienced in my own life. I know it was a truth I have never ever heard before it feels truly like the pill NEO had to choose in the matrix. There is no way back. Here is the truth. Keep on living with the other lemmings in the dreamworld or experience the rough reality of s~~~ really is. I saw how women react and play today. I seriously doubt that, at such a high rate of bitches, there is ever going to be somebody for me. Also, in regards of friendships and further down the road work relationships, I will be a misagonist, I will be a bitch hater, I am already not taking an inch of s~~~ from any women here, I am already calling them out on their s~~~ and have a hell of a fun time doing it. But I don’t want to put career options in danger, because pussy whipped men think I hate women and would not contribute to a good work environment or women I didn’t take s~~~ from work against me in spaces (dorms or work places) in the future where I see them every day. Unfortunately the freeing of women for the work place has not brought a restraining order with it against bitching, manipulation and back stabbing behavior.

Help me out on this, as I realize how pussy whipped every men is, how they are not seeing the s~~~ women pull, how they still living with an idea of that women are better than men and that the world would be a better place if more women would be in power. I once was like that, but life has tought me a hard to swallow lesson that women are the same, a good chunk even more evil spirited than men, and do anything to make mens life s~~~. I see successful married men with kids, who are doing what I want to do career wise after I’ll get my degree and I more than before ask myself how I should move forward with the stuff I have adopted in the last 2,5 months. Have you guys been at this crossroad, where you could go back to the old and just abandon everything I have done since april or move forward in a brighter future with the new wisdom. The second point involves that you move on with your new found knowledge and that it is successful. Herein lies my worry. There have been 4 or 5 times in my life before, where I made a decision on a major topic like religion, I thought this is something that would impact my life positively, but has to be shown to be the opposite in the long run, to the point that I had to abandon it again. Guys, how have been your crossroads and what has come out of it career wise and on a friendship level since swallowing the red pill?

 

Sorry for speeling or gramatical mishaps. It is not my first language and it has been ages since I learned it in school.

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

I live in one of the most c~~~y ball busting feminist city in the world. Only Sweden beats my city. I don’t have any friends in my city after I moved here I just didn’t bother. People are way too fake to care. I only ending up meeting blue pill bitches so I just didn’t bother. Tom Leykis has a web site https://blowmeuptom.com.
You friends will probably not listen to you until they have it pretty bad. Some will have to go through marriage to realize they are screwed others will take even further. I wouldn’t worry about friends and s~~~ and just focus on your life. Any decent from would stick by you even if they disagree with you. Most guys will throw you under the bus for some stupid c~~~y woman so be prepared for that.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[treelville..miamiParticipant 893]

We feel you man. Here’s the thing with blue pill friends, they’re so blinded by pussy and scared of the bitch, that they’ll ignore you. Like Canuck said, these men will have to go through life changing events in order to see the light and then there’s still a chance they might go back to the plantation. I’ve stopped trying to convert blue pill men it’s a waste of time. They have to find their own path, all I can offer is a place to crash when their bitches go apes~~~.

"The wounds of honor are self inflicted"

[RoyDalParticipant]

I think Alcoholics Anonymous has it right: They will have to hit bottom before they start looking for a way out. You will be there for them, assuming they are willing to learn. There are those who learn from others’ mistakes, but these are thin on the ground, statistical outliers.

Persuade by example and have the info available is what I recommend. Talking, arguing, waving articles in their faces, will only make them dig in deeper…sad, but that’s human nature.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[AshcroftParticipant 59]

Guys, that is actually sad news. I have to be honest and have to say that I hoped for some success stories how some guys manage to adopt all of Toms advice and still live a good life. Loosing friends over this s~~~ doesn’t sound good.

I also have recognized today that I begun loosing the swagger and fall back into old waters when interacting with women. I don’t know. What I have described to you got me thinking and I can see it in my manners. The bitch from post one also must have overheard a conversation I had with my neighbor about womens attention whoring nature and she demonstrativly slammed her door. What a c~~~.

Guys, I won’t go ghosting or stop going out/having fun with women for my life. It’s a part that can be hugly fun, when you know how to navigate and know about womens nature. I am definitly adopting MGTOW views like:

•  focusing on your own career, life, hobby instead of making having a relationship as your first goal
• seeing women for what they are, lying piece of s~~~, nevertheless I will need to work ocasionaly together with them after uni, althought it’s  a male dominated field, so how can I navigate there

but I won’t go that far as some have.

I am hoping for a wider awakening about the issues we are discussing inbetween men and a new found brotherly cameradery between us and not competing and screwing friends for bitch ass whores. Is the time ripe? What impression do you guys have? i can see a very tiny little flake of knowledge that is slowly beginning to move into some consciousnesses.

Sorry for speeling or gramatical mishaps. It is not my first language and it has been ages since I learned it in school.

[AFTParticipant 2722]

@ Ashcroft, it’s always nice to hear that young men are becoming more aware earlier in life. I’m 43 years old and identify with you very closely although I am probably 20 years older. My mentality was that I wanted to have children as a natural part of life, and wanted to get married in order to provide the best environment for raising those children. However I waited for a couple of years after getting married, before starting to have children, as I saw the terrible relationship of my own parents, and took my fathers advice to wait before I have children, to make sure this is the family life I wanted with the wife I chose. Anyway I decided NOT to have children with that woman, which was the BEST decision of my life. However I still put up with her for another 5 years hoping she would change, which was a blue pill mistake.
My advice would be if you are going to get married, then DON’T, but if you absolutely can’t help yourself, then do it quickly, do it as young as possible, so you can get it out of the way early enough to recover. It’s too late for me if I was to get married today, I’d be 65 by the time the kids were independent, she’d have me by the b~~~~ (wallet), effectively for the rest of my life. It’s a sad situation, but unfortunately, that is the environment we are in.
The reality is we have natural primal instincts to have children, in an environment where our natural feminine partners have been corrupted, we must maintain sovereignty over our freedom, for the best interests of our future.
I’m sorry that the news is sad, but I’m glad you are aware. Now the next step is to navigate the best life you can, with all the knowledge you have, some of us have gone ghost, others still engage in one nighters, FWB, but I think we all agree LTR, and marriage is out of the question. I wrote a post a while back, where I explained that I would LTR, or marry a woman that, brought into the relationship equal equity, but I almost fell off my chair laughing while writing about such a woman.
My best advice is to maximize your money generating potential, that’s what I’m focusing on. Good luck, Ashcroft, keep in touch and let us know how you are going.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[AshcroftParticipant 59]

The reality is we have natural primal instincts to have children, in an environment where our natural feminine partners have been corrupted, we must maintain sovereignty over our freedom, for the best interests of our future.

Where I live, the percentage of divorces is ~50%. You have a 50/50 chance to have a “successful” marriage. Not included are all the ghost marriages. People who are married on paper but don’t live together anymore. Here it is the same as everywhere else. Women to 70% initiate the divorce. If the f…… feminists would look into these statistics, they maybe would ask themselves, there is something very wrong going on.

I have to be honest, I have not thought about the “your age”+”18″=”age when kids leave the house” calculation for a long time. I am a little bit overworked the last days and maybe that is why I felt a little uneasy about it.

The old doctrine, marry, have children, buy house, buy car is working. It has worked for my parents and on days like today I yearn for it to much. I on one side, right now think, how nice it would be to grow a family and imagining myself as this grandfather sitting there on his rocking chair and his grandchildren are squirreling around him. I love this picture. My grandfather was like that. He was the wisdom in person and I have really been spoiled when I was young with it.

Thanks AFT for the wisdom. If I’ll get marry a prenup will be put in place.

Sorry for speeling or gramatical mishaps. It is not my first language and it has been ages since I learned it in school.

[BDParticipant 1146]

Ashcroft wrote:

I have not thought about the “your age”+”18″=”age when kids leave the house” calculation for a long time.

Now, if you’re divorced, and if they chose to go to post secondary, you get to pay for half of that as well, so make it 18 years old with a few extra $$$$$.

People naturally want to have the impression that their own lives are good,

but dig deeper, have a real sit down with a married man and ask him those important questions, look into the emptiness and sadness in his soul, look at how he carries himself, how he takes care of his dad-bod, ask him about how he never gets sex, how she bosses him around, evaluate his life…..

Think about the financial consequences, your quality and freedom of life, your dreams, and at what age you actually think you may be able to retire….

A wife, on a whim,  can delay your retirement and you will be working until the day that you die. The never ending hamster wheel for a woman that is long gone…..

Is it really worth paying someone to spend time with you?

 

Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Ashcroft wrote:

Thanks AFT for the wisdom. If I’ll get marry a prenup will be put in place.

What I was trying to elude to is marriage is for women, it’s in their best interest, think about it, what is in it for you, or any other man.  Especially with the consequence of divorce over your head.

I am free, I see that I can do anything a married man can do, and more.  The only thing that I can’t do is get absolutely reamed in a divorce, I get more sex now than I did married, I can have more kids, with more women, if I want to pay my ass off in child support.

What does marriage offer me?  Compare that to what not being married offers, uncontrollably big smile just appeared out of nowhere, with the thoughts of unfettered freedom.  Life is still tough, but I have total freedom, don’t focus on the delusion of the fantasy that you don’t have.  Focus on the real options that you do.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[AshcroftParticipant 59]

Just came home from a big campus party. Have been at a bar and next to me was a butch, short haired blond bitch, who wouldn’t shut the f… up, about her beeing served first, although she came much later to the bar than I. You should have seen the look in her eyes, when I put her in her place. All the pussy men, running around, trying to get some poon. They all teached those girls that they can behave like absolute f~~~tards and not getting any correction or s~~~ for acting like an idiot. The look on her face when I put her back in her place was priceless. But beeing a butch feminazi, she would not shut up. The good behaving bartender told her that she will be next, but she didn’t stop nagging.

Guys it is what we are describing in forums or videos. What experienced people have seen in real life. I had the first person enc~~~er with all the s~~~ I read about the last weeks in my own life. She wouldn’t stop nagging. Eventually she pulled lightly on my shirt. Didn’t know it was because she got turned on by berating her (I say that, don’t get me wrong, because I have seen a girl getting turned on, when I put her in her place, must have reminded her about her daddy).  Would I have known everything I know now about the female nature, man I would have carved around a lot of s~~~ty encounters.

Since the encounter with the dorm mate, my attitude towards females has changed. Every time I have been out in a bar, club or festival, there has been at least one broad I told to shut the f up. Talking about male privileges. I don’t see them. It is females that are carrying around a sense of entitlement and superiority towards men. Most pussy men let women do whatever they want with them. I hope more men are catching on by seeing men treating females the way they are today. Entitled sluts, leeches, trying to suck the blood out of a man silently and unrecognized.

Oh, the worst are men who have taken a female attitude and trying to shame other men. How I love that. One part of me thinks, well at least he is not that much of a pussy, but than these people behave entitled as females and try to shame their brothers and stab than in their backs. The has been such an example tonight as well on the party. A simp with female shaming tactics. Way to go!

 

As for marriage AFT, I feel it isn’t for me. The model I grew up with, in a multi generational home, is not working anymore. It might have 50 years ago, but nowadays females are so concentrated about their own career, that it would and up a mess to do that. Partly I enjoyed growing up there, partly I hated it, because of the mistreatment of new family members by older ones. It all has its disadvantages. As I said my picture I have of a family won’t work today. I see it in so many relationships. Men bearing the s~~~ women do to them without doing anything against it. Beeing pushed down more and more each day. I currently know such a case first hand.

Times have changed to much to go into marriage. The marriage material that is out there isn’t worth a dime. F~~~ every guy they want in their 20s and later after “having lived” try to settle down with a pussy provider. I see it all the time. Some nations might still have the upper hand in keeping women in line, but where I live, women are open to do whatever the f~~~ they f~~~ing want. I have a case first hand where an italian man is together with a spanish women and it looks like that he doesn’t let him beeing berated by her. She tries every trick on my other friends and I am the one who tells them to not let her s~~~ on them. I hope they’ll see what females are today. Mostly crap. The last weeks confirmed a lot I am reading .

I’ll somehow try to figure out with what attitude I’ll go to my old childhood friends wedding next month. 😉

 

Sorry for speeling or gramatical mishaps. It is not my first language and it has been ages since I learned it in school.

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