new guy…

[StangbangerParticipant 4]

Hey guys…  I just found the forum and have been reading through some of the threads with great interest.

I am 47 years old and just came out of a long term relationship with a woman that I could never make happy.  I am not one to give up or quit and maybe it was the reason I stuck with it for 14 years is because I did not want to fail.  I was married prior to this relationship and the last two years of my marriage I knew it was failing…  Well not necessarily “failing” because of anything either one of us had done or was doing but because I just simply was no longer in love with my wife.  Having failed in my marriage I just could not allow this relationship to fail.  I did everything to try to please this woman but one thing…  I did not marry her.

There is much to tell about this 14 year roller coaster ride I have been on…  I have posted about it on other forums and been accused of “leading her on” and keeping her around as a “play thing”.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  From about six months into the relationship she was talking about getting married.  Obsessively talking about it…  During the entire relationship I do not believe more than a month at a time went by that she was not talking about getting married.  It came to the point that I once told her if I heard the words “marriage” or “wedding” again I was going to puke.  The fact is I really did want to spend the rest of my life with this woman.  The times when we were not arguing about getting married were some of the best times I have ever had…  She used to say to me “all we fight about is getting married.  So, if we get married there will be nothing left to fight about”.  I just could not buy into that way of thinking.  I was more concerned that every time I did not do what she wanted she would break off the relationship.  This happened rather frequently.  My logic was that I would refuse to do what she wanted and she would leave anyway.  If I was not married to her at least she would leave with what she had and I would keep all of my s~~~.  I would always be the one coming back and apologizing to try to make peace.  Again, I did not want to feel like a failure and she would make EVERYTHING out to be my fault.

When the relationship first started she would tell me about how badly her ex-husband treated her and how lucky she was that I found her.  She was into everything I did with great interest.  We would talk several times a day and she would always say the “right” things with such conviction.  I was so sure that I had found “the one”.  I kept trying to get back to that part of the relationship.  I know it is not realistic to get back to the “honeymoon phase” of a relationship but I kept thinking it must be something I was doing as she was just not being a nice person.

I make a pretty good living and have done well for myself.  I have worked very hard to get where I am in life.  I am a decent looking guy, 6’1″, 195lbs, have two college degrees, played sports my entire life and played professional sports for two years just after college.  She, on the other hand, does not have a pot to p~~~ in and if she did she borrowed it from someone.  She does not have a college degree.  Since the breakup many people have asked me “what the hell were you doing with her anyway?  She is not even cute”.

I wish MGTOW had been around 14 years ago…  I was not aware of the “red flags” but always felt something I could never “put a finger on” and just was not willing to marry this woman.  I would tell her “just be happy with me and what we have and the marriage will take care of itself”.  I almost felt she was pushing the marriage because there was something she did not want me to “figure out”.

I have been rather “torn up” about the breakup for the past couple of months.  I should feel lucky that it is finally over and feel like a “dodged a bullet”.

[…Spectator 1165]

Sometimes it takes awhile to wake up but I’m glad you did. Sounds like you are much better off now!

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

Welcome new guy…
The last time a girl came at me with that marriage idea, it was someone I knew I would never marry (mgtow at my core), but I didn’t want her to bail and was trying to maintain the relationship as long as possible without marrying her. (She owed my money at the time). My response was this: What is it that two people can accomplish married that they cannot accomplish single?

You can care about each other and love each other and live together happily ever after without getting married. There was a time when societal pressure sort of required you to be married in order to have kids. But plenty of people have kids who aren’t married and there’s no scandal about it…nobody cares. You can live together and have wild sex every night and everyone might know, but nobody cares… no scandal. You can put someone in your will, buy houses together, start businesses together, put each other on insurance forms as ‘significant other’ or ‘partner’, designate someone as legal power of attorney to make medical decisions for you if you’re in a coma… all without being married.

As for commitment and stability: There was a time when societal norms made any divorce a scandal and an embarrassment for both families etc etc… And that likely kept some very unhappy marriages together. But those days are over. Courts stamp out divorce decrees like an assembly line factory. A city may have many churches and wedding chapels, but only one divorce court. And that divorce court is efficient enough to stamp out divorces at right around 50% as fast as all those churches and chapels put together can create marriages. And still nobody cares. So there’s not really anything about marriage that makes a relationship any more stable the day after the wedding than it was the day before the wedding.

The bottom line is that it’s really just the willingness of two people to continue in the relationship that holds it together anymore at all. A marriage is just a ring and a piece of paper. It has no impact on the stability of the relationship.

Now as rational as this sounds to us, you can explain this to a woman who’s demanding that you marry her and it will have zero effect. It just bounces off. The reason for this is that there is actually one last thing that two people can accomplish under the law who are married that cannot be accomplished by two single people. The one thing that is available under the law to two people who are married that is not available to two single people is:

THE UNLIMITED TRANSFER OF CASH AND FINANCIAL ASSETS FROM ONE SPOUSE TO THE OTHER WITHOUT THE BURDEN OF TAXATION OF ANY KIND ON THE RECEIVING PARTY.

That’s the way a tax attorney will explain it to you. That’s the only thing. If you are a zillionaire and you give your girlfriend a house, she has to pay gift taxes on that house. If you give her a car and it’s worth more than 10,000, she has to pay gift tax on that. But if you marry her, on the very same day, the house, the car, stocks, other real estate, retirement funds can all be transferred to your spouse, and she owes zero taxes for any of it. Likewise, if all of those things are transferred to her a (miserable) year or two later, the marriage can be dissolved by divorce decree from a judge on the very same day…and no taxes apply.

You can’t even give that money to your own kids without them having to pay gift taxes if you’re alive or estate and inheritance taxes if you’re dead. But ownership of financial assets can be transferred to your spouse IN UNLIMITED AMOUNTS with zero taxes.

Stock dividends have taxes, earned income has taxes, inheritance has taxes, hit a jackpot for over 1500 dollars in Las Vegas and you will pay taxes, f~~~ing game show winnings have taxes…! But women get to receive cash and financial assets in unlimited amounts from their spouses and don’t pay a God damned cent.

I asked a tax attorney to explain this. How the hell does the government let money change hands by any mechanism at all that they don’t collect taxes for…? They find ways to tax everything.

His answer: since you are married, the government considers those assets to be already hers. SHE DOESN’T PAY TAXES ON IT BECAUSE SHE ALREADY OWNS IT. It was hers as soon as it was earned (never mind who actually did the earning). Single women get cash for sex all the time. But it’s in limited quantities like free drinks, free meals, free vacations, free room and board if you let them move in. And certainly there are guys out there who would throw shopping money at them to shut them up, or to get more sex. But anything more than this, even if given freely, carries at least a gift tax burden and they don’t want to share the take with the government.

So you see, free drinks, free meals, free room and board, utilities, entertainment, vacations, jewelry and all the other freebies that go along with the relationship she already has is not enough. Even half your assets is not enough. They want all those free perks, AND half your earnings, AND they want it TAX FREE. The purpose of the marriage is just a formality they have to go through so that when they walk away with this pile of assets, they can know that they didn’t leave anything of value on the table and didn’t take with them any liabilities. They want marriage because they know this is guaranteed to maximize the take. And if you don’t believe that women can be this calculating when it comes to their own interests, I’ll introduce you to some 14 year old girls who can teach you how to grade diamonds.

Perhaps this little insight will help diminish the disappointment or uncertainty you might be feeling about that marriage contract that you did not sign.

The only other insight I can offer you is this: the next orgasm you have with the next girl you have sex with, will be 100% as fantastic and wonderful as the last one you had with this woman. I know this because i’ve had thousands of them and i haven’t had a bad on yet. LOL And within one minute of having it, you’ll realize that the last girl was not the only option you had for achieving it…just the most outlandishly overpriced option for it that you were NEVER in any way obligated to choose.

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[MendokusaiParticipant 256]

Hey welcome,I’m also 47 but fortunately have never had to go through all that s~~~,I can say though you have the other half of your life to do whatever you want. IMO you did the right thing,sounds like she was just trying to reel you in.One thing though,up here in Canada the gov’t considers you a couple if you’ve shared the same address for six months.I’m assuming the laws are different where you are or you did not live together?

[…Spectator 1165]

Brain Pilot nailed it when he said above that marriage is

“THE UNLIMITED TRANSFER OF CASH AND FINANCIAL ASSETS FROM ONE SPOUSE TO THE OTHER WITHOUT THE BURDEN OF TAXATION OF ANY KIND ON THE RECEIVING PARTY.”

Damn man, that post is a 10 grand post! Lotta wisdom in there. Totally in line with what i posted about whoever owns the vag owns the relationship…and that is always the woman. The reality going into 2015 is that now women not only have the vaginas, they have the old hen network on the internet…all their friends IRL in social circles, all of some guy’s assets by now (if they are over 30), a legal system that is always in their favor, PLUS various organized groups to take on their made up stories and turn them into court cases to take away the rest of our s~~~. And still, WITH ALL THIS, they sit around bitching all the time. Its unbelievable.

On a more positive note, they can only get away with this for a few short years and then they become whiny beggars and less and less shiny beggars at that. So get ’em while they’re fresh guys! And always tell them “I have to think about it and get back to you” when they start launching into their push for marriage and commitment. Stall, stall, stall some more….after all that is what they do when they withhold sex from you.

[StangbangerParticipant 4]

Thanks guys.  Everyone who knows me has been telling me since this happened “you are better off.  Who wants to take on her three kids and their issues?”  But the fact is that I love her kids so that makes even more difficult.  I was aware of the issues her two sons have, they both dropped out of high school, but I was willing to take on and help her deal with those issues.

She lived with me on three different occasions and every time there was an issue with her kids is when she would move out…  Each time I wanted to put some “rules” in place for the kids is when she would leave.  For instance, I would sometimes come home and there would be 8 teenagers in the house.  I told her that I did not mind her kids having friends over but it was something we BOTH had to be in agreement regarding.  When I was growing up if I wanted to have a friend over, for example, I would ask my Mom “do you mind if a friend comes over?”  Her response would be something along the lines of “it is fine with me but ask your father”.  If I ask my Dad I would get a very similar response…  She thought that was the most ridiculous thing she had ever heard and accused me of being “controlling”.

Like I said her two sons dropped out of high school.  I thought it was insane that they both quit school.  She would tell me “I can’t make them go”.  I used to think to myself “bulls~~~ you can’t make them go”.  She would enable them by paying all of her kids cell phone bills, to the tune of $320/month.  Her oldest son has been in and out of juvenile detention and jail.  She used to say that she felt comfortable that he was in jail because she knew he was safe.  Her youngest son lived with a friend for over a year until the friend’s father finally kicked him out.  The father kicked him because he did absolutely nothing all day long…

Her youngest child is female and recently just turned 16.  She attends the most expensive private school in the area because she said she “does not get along with the girls” that attend the public school.  Her daughter has not one but two horses that she shows damn near every weekend.  Back over the summer the ex decided she was going to buy her daughter a car so she could start “practicing” driving.  Her daughter wanted a Mustang or a Jeep.  I road race Mustangs and have a pretty good knowledge of the cars.  I brought up the fact that I did not feel buying a Mustang for an inexperienced driver was such a good idea.  I may as well gone outside and yelled it off the porch because I knew once she had the idea of getting the Mustang for her daughter there was no stopping her.  So I helped her by looking around and asking my “car guy” buddies to keep an eye open for a good used “newer” body style Mustang.  Within a couple of the days the ex calls me at the office to tell me she found a Mustang at a dealer about 70 miles away and asks if I can go with her to take a look.  I told her I could not that night as my son had a baseball game but could the other night.  She was so excited about getting the car she went without me and advised I could go down and look at it with her the following evening.  She comes home after looking at the Mustang and I ask her “how did it look?”  She states that it looked really nice…  I tell her I can’t wait to see it and am “looking forward to going down there tomorrow”.  She then tells me “don’t worry about going down there as it is being delivered tomorrow”.  I didn’t say anything but was thinking “WTF???”  Anyway, I believe she paid $9,800 for the Mustang.  When I saw it and got to drive it I thought to myself “holy s~~~ this thing is ragged out and I would have offered them $5,000”.

All of this spending for her daughter and none for her sons other than giving them money to do what they want.  She is linked up to their bank accounts and would get texts from them in the middle of night for her to transfer money from her account to theirs.  Of course, she would do it…  It really baffled me…

I am starting to think there is “something wrong” with me for putting up with this s~~~ for so long and for still missing her.

[…Spectator 1165]

@Starbanger: Feeling lonely after a breakup is normal. Sure, you miss all that human contact but you need a break man. Go do some nice things for yourself and time will take care of it. When I read the details of your story, I am amazed you put up with that s~~~ for so long. You must have really loved them all. Worst part I can see if you had stayed is that the boys that dropped out of high school will NEVER be moving out. If they did ever leave, they’ll be returning with a crackhead pregnant girlfriend and you’d be stuck with those bills as well.

At some point you were facing some awful s~~~ like them beating the s~~~ out of you when they don’t get their way and trust me, after enough beer they would be considering it eventually. Just give yourself some time and make a better choice next time. Any if she offers you the pussy sometime in the future, be very careful bro.

[StangbangerParticipant 4]

Thanks man…  I really appreciate it.

I blocked all ways she would ever have of contacting me so there is no temptation.  She blames me for everything that ever went wrong with our relationship anyway and it is “beneath” her to say she is sorry.  So the probability of ever hooking up with her again is very low…  As a matter of fact I would say that, given her personality, it is not even possible.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

WAIT……WHAT???? OK stop rewind. I was all set to post a reply but before I do I need clari-f~~~ing-cation.

THE UNLIMITED TRANSFER OF CASH AND FINANCIAL ASSETS FROM ONE SPOUSE TO THE OTHER WITHOUT THE BURDEN OF TAXATION OF ANY KIND ON THE RECEIVING PARTY.

Is that TRUE? Does a woman not pay taxes on alimony income?

EDIT: OK I just looked it up. What f~~~ing c~~~s.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/tax/10/spousal-support-taxation.asp

Out of the 7 weddings I personally stopped in 4 years, I always felt good about destroying the bride’s weekend, hair and dreams – while saving a groom’s life, future and fortune. But after reading that, I feel f~~~ing fantastic about it.

I will read this kind of story now and laugh my head off as I stroke my massive Schadenboner.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1237311/LIZ-JONES-Wish-lonely-Christmas-spare-thought-millions-women-like-me.html

Thank you.

More later….

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[JohnnyWayneParticipant 70]

@Stangbanger you are so lucky to have survived this without loosing your future. Remember, none of this is your fault. You tried for 14 years to hang in there and be a good man. You did not fail. You were on a suicide mission and yet somehow lived to see another day and a brighter future for yourself.

Her son’s failures are HER failures, not yours. Her daughter issues are HER daughter issues and not yours.

Now you need to “man up” and take care of the person who matters most. YOU! Do not ever feel as if you have failed because you failed to throw yourself under a bus for that woman and her kids. Martyrdom is the coward’s solution, and 14 years proves that you are no coward. You tried, it didn’t work, move on.  God bless.

[StangbangerParticipant 4]

Thanks John!!  I know everything you and the others in this thread have mentioned is 100% true.  Despite knowing these things I still from time to time have difficulty letting go of it all…  Racing season is right around the corner and I have many things that I need to do in order to get the car ready so it will be easier to keep my mind and time occupied.

Happy New Year to you and all on MGTOW!!!

[tsParticipant 109]

Is that TRUE? Does a woman not pay taxes on alimony income?

No, she doesn’t, because the man pays the taxes. Additionally in Europe alimony and palimony expenses of a man are categorized as “male consumption” by the economy statistics, not as wealth transfer. So a man who gets robbed of his entire income (or even more using the construct of “fictional income”) enters the statistic as “rich guy mindlessly squandering everything he earns”. As always the socialist state is the problem.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

When the relationship first started she would tell me about how badly her ex-husband treated her and how lucky she was that I found her. She was into everything I did with great interest. We would talk several times a day and she would always say the “right” things with such conviction. I was so sure that I had found “the one”.

I am very delayed with the introductions (because of the holidays) but this paragraph stuck out because women are VERY good at this . Emersing themselves in your world, taking interest in your interests – when she would not take an interest in them herself. This is very appealing to a man because it happens rarely , and stupidly we tend to become so enamored with the first girl that pays any real attention to us.

I also have seen it SO many times where they literally “latch on” to the next man in the same way, and mold themselves into his life and world. If he’s a musician, she goes to his shows and listens to music she wouldn’t normally listen to. If he’s a doctor, she takes interesting in volunteering at the hospital or being on the board…. the point being , that she has no real “identity” of her own and her means are obtained through a man. This is how it’s possible to date a woman at 21 and when you meet her again 10 years later she is a COMPLETELY different person and virtually unrecognizable.

It can be easy for a man to be seduced by the enthusiastic interest she appears to put into it at first. But it isn’t genuine. (At least, you can’t be CERTAIN it’s genuine.) So listening to your manstincts was a good move here.

I am always amazed at the number of women who wanted to marry me. A HUGE majority of the girlfriends I had wanted to ALWAYS want something more. They were not content with a good / simple / solid relationship cruising along for a while. They ALWAYS pushed and wanted the life contract. How is this possible? Surely I can’t be THAT great a catch that so many women wanted to get married…. until I realized that’s all it was.

They wanted to “get married”. It didn’t matter WHO he was. It was the wedding, the ring, the cake and the dress, the big party where they are celebrated, it wasn’t that they wanted to marry ME. And so your intro struck a chord because I have felt the same thing you did – TOO MANY times.

Then of course we would split and within 9 short months (or even 2 years) she would be married to some other guy. (eye roll) I don’t know how that’s possible. How can you want a life-until-death contract with one man…. and then THE NEXT GUY SHE DATES ends up being her husband? I haven’t met one woman I was so sure I wanted to go to the grave with…. but MOST of the women I dated wanted to get married. I almost fell for it once or twice.

Anyways thanks for your intro and apolz for being so late in getting back to you.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

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