Never marry! France in the years 1400-50

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

Antoine de La Salle
(The book author is thought to have been Antoine de La Salle but that is not certain)
The Fifteen Joys of Marriage
Translated from the French by Elizabeth Abbot

This satire is about marriage in France in the 1400s. It describes exactly the same experiences that are reported here on the MGTOW forums about marriage and feminine (miss)behavior. AWALT, All Through History.

Description on the inside flyleaf.

This witty satire is dedicated to all married men, and all those others who might contemplate marriage. The author has words for both of these and spares nothing in describing the “pains and torments” which they might mistake for “joys and delights.” Mercilessly he describes what might happen to a man who falls into marriage — his wife’s extravagances, her never-ending desires for new clothes and even worse….
“Many men have sought to show,” says the author, “with much reasoning and authority, that man enjoys the greatest happiness on earth by living in freedom and liberty than by allowing himself to be enslaved of his own free will. In their opinion a man is not in his right senses who may enjoy the pleasures and delights of the world in the flower of his youth, and voluntarily and of his own initiative, seeks the entrance into a narrow, painful prison, full of tears, groans and lamentations and needlessly rushes into it.”
But the hypothetical hero of The Fifteen Joys of Marriage does rush into the narrow, painful prison where “he will languish ever and will end his days miserably.”

Below is an excerpt from the beginning of the first chapter.
The first joy of marriage is when the young man is the first flush of youth, when he is fresh, lively and merry and cares for nothing but to prove his prowess in love, compose ballads and sing them, ogle the prettiest wenches and consider where he may take his pleasure and delight according to his degree; and he has no care as to whence comes the money he has, for perhaps he still has father and mother or other kinsfolk who give him whatever he needs.
And though he has his ease and pleasure in abundance, he is not content, but gazes enviously at those who are married and firmly caught in the trap. And he sees them sporting themselves with delight — or so it seems to him — for they have the bait beside them in the trap, in other words, the woman, and she is beautiful, bedecked with jewels and finely appareled in gowns, which perhaps, he husband has not paid for; for he is told that her father or mother gave them to here form their bountiful store. So the young man turns and turns about the trap and to such good purpose that at last he enters into it and is married. And so eager is he to snatch at the bait that he frequently gives little thought to the consequences and plunges in regardless of the cost.
Now that he is in the trap, the poor man who was wont to concern himself solely with singing and with buying ribbons, silk purses and other charming baubles to give to pretty wenches. There, for a while, he frisks about and enjoys himself and has no thought of escape, till one fine day he realizes what is happening, but it is too late. His wife must be set up in the estate befitting her. And perchance her heart is gay and merry, and at a feast the other day she saw the ladies and citizens’ wives or other women of here estate who were garbed in the latest fashion. And she says to herself that it is indeed due to her house and kin that she should be as well dressed as others.
Then she waits for the suitable place, time and hour to speak of this matter to her husband; for women like to speak of their special matters there where their husbands are most subject and must needs be inclined to grant their wishes, — that is, in bed where the fellow whereof I speak is thinking of this delight and pleasure and to him it seems he has nothing else to do.
(As you would expect, it goes downhill from here into debt and male misery and regret over his rash decision)

[Anonymous 54]

So for 600 years they didnt heed their warning.Marage allways sucks.Pic a centry.Awalt

[CataphractParticipant 2656]

So marriage sucked for men even back in the days when society was still a hard patriarchy and it sucks even more ass nowadays in a femocracy.

Marriage: About as appealing as wood-chipper diving.

[FermatParticipant 3478]

Doesn’t matter which century, dealing with women on a permanent basis always sucked.

I have discovered a truly remarkable list of reasons why women are not necessary for a happy life, but alas this margin is too small to contain it.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

The second joy is when the lady feels richly dressed, as we have said, and knows well that she is comely (even if she is not, she believes she is) and goes to numerous feats, gatherings and pilgrimages; and sometimes her husband is not pleased; and for that she arranges with her gossip and her cousin who, perhaps, is no kin at all, but she is wont to say so and for good reason. And even her mother, who sometimes, knows the business, tells the poor man that his is her cousin to lighten his heart if it is heavy. Occasionally the husband, who doesn’t wish her to go, will say that he has no horse or some other cause.

The women set out on their way and they mock the goodman, telling one another that he is jealous, but he does nothing. Thither the gallants also wend their way, and perchance some among them had pressed their suit at former feasts and mean to end their business now. Mark how she exerts herself to dance and sing and how little she esteems her husband when she sees herself so admired and praised. Then the gallants, who see her so well dressed and so sprightly in discourse, press forward around her, one before the other….Whereupon she often departs from the straight and narrow path and takes pleasure and various things and perhaps worse will come.

Now the poor man has impoverished himself for his wife’s estate, which estate is the cause for her going to feasts where the gallants flock from all sides, each of them, for his part, hoping to deceive the poor man. And it comes to pass either that, from long frequentation, the lady or her lover grows careless, or perhaps some kinsman of special friend of the goodman drops a hint to him, and he discovers the truth or suspects it. Whereupon he falls into a jealous rage, into which no wise man should ever let himself fall; for if once he knows his wife’s fault, never will he be cured by any doctor. And then he will beat her and will make his case worse, for never will she be chastened; and by beating her he will but throw fuel on the fire of mad love between her and her lover… Then it comes to pass that he loses his chattels and becomes a dotard and nothing matters to him anymore. And never will she love him, save for her pastime and to torment him. There the poor man lives in despair and torment which he mistakes for joy. Now he is firmly caught in the trap and if he were not, he would hasten to put himself in. There he will waste his life inconstant languishing and will end his days in misery.

[Anonymous 11]

That was awesome, and very cheerful, good food always tastes better if you think of people that are starving.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

The third joy of marriage is when, after the young man and his young wife have taken their fill of pleasures and amorous toyings, she becomes big with child and perhaps not by her husband which often happens. Then the poor husband is plunged into worry and torment; for he must run hither and yon to procure for his lady whatever she craves; and if the lady so much as drops a pin, he must pick it up lest she prick and hurt herself. And it will be luck if she is pleased with the meat he brings her, however much trouble he has taken to find and get it for her. And it often comes about that, because of the variety of food she enjoys and the sloth in which she lives, she loses her appetite, because she is bored with common meats. She becomes capricious and yearns for new and strange things; and she must have them, whatever they are, and the goodman must trot on foot or on horseback, night and day, to find them. In nine months his lady does nothing but groan and complain and the goodman is in torment. The poor man carries all the burden of the household; he must go to bed late and rise early and attend to the household according his degree.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

For the younger members and lurkers, here is another excerpt from the beginning of a chapter from a satirical book on marriage from France, from over five hundred years ago (1400-50), by the attributed author Antoine de La Salle, titled The Fifteen Joys of Marriage. La Salle was in a different culture and society, but the behaviors described are identical to those you read on the current MGTOW forum. Before you decide to marry, consider that those behaviors were present over hundreds or thousands of years in different cultures and societies. Pause to reflect on what you are getting into, especially with the law and risks all stacked against you today.

CHAPTER 5

The fifth joy is when the poor man, who is married, is weary and worn from the great labor and woes he has endured and the fires of his youth are banked; and perhaps his wife is of a nobler house than he or younger, both of which are two serious matters. For there is nothing more destructive to a man than to become entangled in those two bonds that are so contrary to nature and to reason.

Sometimes they have children and sometimes they do not. Nonetheless, the lady has not such travail as the goodman, who has labored to keep her at her ease and in the estate which she has ever had fair and with great possessions. And as if that were not enough, he must do even more; for she would not debase her lineage and her husband must think himself greatly honored that God had granted him the grace to wed her. And it frequently happens that when they quarrel, she tells him as a threat that her kin gave her not to him for his lechery and that well she knows that belongs to her birth. And she says that if she were to write to her brothers or to her cousins they come at once to fetch her. And this he dare not raise a hand to her, whatever his lips may say. This, it seems to me, he is in great bondage. And it may well be that her parents would have married her more nobly and not have given to the goodman had it not been for a little escapade she had in her youth, I know not from what mishap that comes from being passionate and in love, of which the goodman knew nothing. Or mayhap he has heard talk of something, but the goodman who is honest and trusting hears many food folk swear that was naught but evil slanders, ugly lives and unfounded, against the good lady or citizens; for some women are falsely accused, God knows it well, by the young gallants that go roistering about the streets and talk boldly of good and virtuous women when they can get no more from them.

Thus the good woman sees that her husband has given up all frolicking and all joys and thinks only of acquiring wealth and lands. And perhaps he has not great resources, wherefore he is n~~~~rdly at spending money, which does not please the lady, for she would often have new things such as gowns, girdles and other things that she sees in the good company she often frequents at dances and feast with her cousins and gossips and with her male cousin perhaps, is no kin at all.

And sometimes it comes to pass that, because of the great ease in which she lives and because of the great delights and pleasure she takes in diverse feasts and dances to which she goes continually and where she sees and hears certain mattes spoken of, she scorns her husband and takes a lover as it pleases her. And thus never will she love her husband for he is quite other than her lover; he is miserly, distraught with thoughts and cares, and she has not yet come to his state of miserliness and is in the full bloom of her youth which she would spend in dallyings and delights.

Therefore she often goes where she may see her gay and lively young lover. And sometimes it happens that she has long failed to see him at her will, but she sends a message that she must see him on the morrow at a certain hour.

And when the evening comes and the goodman, her husband, goes to bed and would frolic with her, she remembers her lover whom she is to see on the morrow at a certain hour, and finds a way to put him off and will not consent and says she is sick. Fore she thinks naught of him, a poor thing in comparison with her lover whom she has not seen for eight days or more and will come on the morrow more ravenous and tempestuous than ever.

(The rest of the chapter continues, but echoes many a MGTOW introduction)

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

The sixth joy is when he who is marries has suffered all the pains and travails aforesaid, or some of them, and particularly if he is young and has a wife of fickle and flighty disposition and he is a good man and has great love for her and gives her all the pleasure he can and though she is a notable woman, she intends to keep the upper hand and to know her husband’s business and she is given to inferring and answering back if need be. And such is the nature of that woman that whatever husband she had, and though she were happy and lacked for nothing, yet she always gave her husband something to think about or suspect.

And sometimes when the husband and his wife are in their bedchamber all night and half a day, towards morning they are blissful and joyous and the husband leaves her in the bedchamber, where she prettifies herself and clothes herself gaily, smiling happily; and he goes off to order dinner and attend to the household chores. And when it is time to dine, he calls the lady. But one of the servants or one of the children comes and tells him the lady will not come.

Then she makes her reply and the goodman goes to ask what the trouble is and is greatly astounded, though he has seen her act thus before. But for all his asking, he shall have nothing; and verily, there is nothing that ails her, but she feigns there is. And perhaps she will not come to dinner, no matter what he may do. Sometimes he does so much that she comes, and with her hand on his arm, like a bride, they go to dinner, and the meat is cold, so long has it been kept waiting. And again she argues and makes such a fuss that she will not eat, nor he either, for he is fool enough to be troubled thereat. And the more he would have her in good cheer, the more melancholy she becomes to worry him. For to win the man who loves and does his best to please her, a woman has only to make him worry about her; whereas to win the favor of a man who cares naught for here, she must show him good cheer and loving services. And she thinks she does well to burden her husband with many cares and tribulations.

(The rest of the chapter continues with more of the same – AWALT)

[TwistParticipant]

Badger wrote:

For to win the man who loves and does his best to please her, a woman has only to make him worry about her; whereas to win the favor of a man who cares naught for here, she must show him good cheer and loving services. And she thinks she does well to burden her husband with many cares and tribulations.

The legend of Chad?

This stuff is brilliant, btw. Too bad there was no internet 500 years ago to spread it far and wide…

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

It not only is the Chad factor, but the last two sentences are exact parallels to current female behavior in marriage.

target="_blank" href=”http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2111203/Seeing-man-upset-makes-women-happy–shows-relationship-strong.html”>

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

The seventh joy of marriage is when sometimes he, who has married, finds an excellent wife, chaste and of high lineage. Moreover it sometimes happens that he finds a wife who is frolicsome and pleasure-loving and would never refuse any advances. But know that, whatever her degree, be she serious or otherwise, every woman believes and holds to general rule in marriage; namely, that her husband is the sorriest and least puissant in privy matters of any man in the world. And it often happens that the young man, who lives like a c~~~, marries a good and modest young girl and they take their pleasures together as often and as much as they can for one year, two years or more, until their youthful passion is spent. However the woman does not wear out so quickly as the man, whatever his estate, for she has not the anxieties, the travails, the cares he has; and were he to do nothing but take his ease and delight, he would wear out sooner than she.

To be sure, so long as the wife is bearing children and is big with child, she is greatly hindered and suffers great pain at her lying-in, but that is naught compared to the responsibility a sensible man assumes or his deep thoughts concerning some great project in view. And as for the pains of pregnancy or of lying-in, I marvel no more at it than at a hen or a goose that lays and egg as big as a fist through and opening where before a little finger could not have passed. Wherefore it is as great a feat of Nature to do the one thing as the other. Thus you will see that, by laying every day, a hen will keep fatter than a c~~~; for the c~~~ is so stupid that he does nothing all day long say search for food to put in her beak, and the hen has no care but to eat and cackle and take her ease. The same do good husbands who are much praised therefor. Afterwards it may happen that the goodman, who always has worries and cares and his thoughts elsewhere, is all thin and worn; nor does he give much time to frolicking, or at least but seldom, and then only to please his wife; and perchance he is not as lively as before, wherefore he leaves off altogether. Thus the wife is neglected, but she is just as lively as ever. And as his attentions grow less daily, the pleasures and delights they had enjoyed together when the husband was young and strong turn to strife and quarrels. And as little by little those attentions lessen, they begin to fight.

And when the lady is not satisfied with goodman’s attentions and she is a good woman and would do no wrong, she thinks that her husband is not so puissant as others; and with the best reason, for she has never known any but him and he is not enough for here….And sometimes some women set out to discover whether other men are as lacking as their husbands. And she who does so mayhap will think it better than before, for perhaps she takes a lover whom she can know only in great secrecy and trepidation, and he is eager and does marvels when he comes to her. And if she had though her husband poor and feeble before, she thinks so even more now, for present pleasures are always sweeter than past memories, and this she believes more firmly than before, for experience is the teacher.

(An so forth it goes in the rest of this chapter, just as if the author was introducing himself on the MGTOW forum)

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

(600 years ago, and nothing has changed) The ninth joy of marriage is when the young man has put himself into the trap and the prison of matrimony and, after the pleasure they found in it at first, the wife will perhaps be temperamental and ill-mannered (and they are all like that) and always seeks to have as much authority and power in the house as her husband — or more if she can. But may be that he is a prudent and spiteful man and will not suffer it but, has resisted in numerous ways and many and many a time there have been disputes and arguments between them and sometimes even fights. But however that may be, and notwithstanding all the wars that have been waged between them for twenty or thirty years or more, he has remained in control of his possessions….

Thus it happens that, because of the great trials and tribulations, the bad nights and the cold he has suffered in his efforts to build up his resources and live honorably, as every man must, that, either through worries or through old age, the goodman languishes and falls ill….

Then the war is over and luck has gone against him. For the lady, who is lively and perhaps younger than he, will now do only as she pleases. The goodman, who has waged war on many planes, is caught. From now on the children, whom the goodman had caused to be well instructed and kept on a short rein, will be poorly taught. And if the goodman scolds them, the lady will side against him; wherefore his heart will be heavy with sorrow.

(skipping to a later part}
All the pleasures he once gave his wife are forgotten, but she remembers the quarrels and tells her neighbors he has been a harsh man and has led her such a cruel life that, had she hot been a woman of great patience, she could not have continued to live with him.

(And so forth, downhill it goes for the husband in the rest of the chapter, just as if the author was introducing himself on the MGTOW forum)

[Author]

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