"Money Is Gold — and Nothing Else"

[Y_Participant 4591]

The Black Scorpion wrote:

It’s now $16. A terrible investment.

I’m not buying any more silver, but I’m not selling what I have. I’ll hold on to it in case of a SHTF scenario or sell it if it hits three figures.

Only keep a small part of your investments in precious metals.

You bought right at the top of the last crash in 2011 – unfortunate. The next bull market has begun in both gold and silver. After the next dollar crash silver will get back the gains. Just have to be patient a while more.

[OldBillParticipant]

Y_ wrote:

That is why the value of both are extremely undervalued.

Undervalued by whom? As you note, in the SHTF situation- the situation most goldbugs buy and hoard gold for – people won’t be able to receive anywhere near that gold’s “true” value.

Gold, silver, or anything else have no intrinsic value. Their only value is what other people will value them at and that value can, does, and will vary wildly.

The reason of holding gold and silver is for the time when the paper futures and manipulation end together with fiat currency trades. At that point in time the real value of them metals will hold. Every country is stocking up gold except the USA and UK.

In other words, inflation. Which I agreed to in my first post.

The end of fiat currency is besides the point. When the dollar craters, it doesn’t matter whether that coin containing an ounce of gold is now worth $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000 if you can’t spend it. If man with the kerosene you desperately need agrees to take that coin for a gallon or three, is your coin now undervalued or the kerosene overvalued? Any question of value in meaningless.

There were sound reasons people always created smaller denominations of the species currency you continually mention and that was because those precious metals in those coins almost always had too much “value” to be used in daily transactions. It was even a common practice to cut coins into smaller pieces in order to create the needed smaller denominations.

You can squat on all the gold, silver, and gems you want. If no one can or will take them for the insulin, the generator repairs, fuel, or food you need none of it has any value.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Y_Participant 4591]

OldBill wrote:

Undervalued by whom? As you note, in the SHTF situation- the situation most goldbugs buy and hoard gold for – people won’t be able to receive anywhere near that gold’s “true” value.

Gold, silver, or anything else have no intrinsic value. Their only value is what other people will value them at and that value can, does, and will vary wildly.

Apologies – gold and silver do have intrinsic value. Like any other commodity in a free market – gold and silver are stores of value and have been (and are being used in some parts of the world) as money. Supply and demand. Except that as I pointed out – this value is being artificially diluted by paper trades.

OldBill wrote:

The end of fiat currency is besides the point. When the dollar craters, it doesn’t matter whether that coin containing an ounce of gold is now worth $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000 if you can’t spend it. If man with the kerosene you desperately need agrees to take that coin for a gallon or three, is your coin now undervalued or the kerosene overvalued? Any question of value in meaningless

I disagree with your statement that you can’t spend it. In most all the prior economic crises in the west (before and after the world wars) gold was able to be exchanged for currency. I say most because it was confiscated for a time in the USA but the dollar value was paid on confiscation. Most large PM outlets and possibly even banks will be able to buy/sell PM’s. I agree this may not be possible in third world areas but certainly not in the US or EU. Even in India where gold is partially confiscated there is a brisk trade in PM’s.

[OldBillParticipant]

Y_ wrote:

gold and silver do have intrinsic value.

No they don’t. If they had an actual intrinsic value, their traded value wouldn’t fluctuate. If no one will take your gold for what you want or need, it has no value.

I disagree with your statement that you can’t spend it. In most all the prior economic crises in the west (before and after the world wars) gold was able to be exchanged for currency.

You’re making several presumptions, the chief of which is that currency conversion will be possible or it won’t occur at ruinous rates for the gold seller.

In the end, you’re presenting theories while I’m presenting the experiences of people who actually lived through it. Part of the stories my colleague tells involves the deals with the disbelief and depression among his older family members who realized the gold and silver they’d purposely hoarded for just that situation proved to be of no help at all.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[TheSpiceParticipant 2644]

OldBill wrote:

No they don’t. If they had an actual intrinsic value, their traded value wouldn’t fluctuate.

EVERYTHING fluctuates in what people will pay for it. Gold and silver are no different. By your definition, nothing would have intrinsic value, including gasoline, guns, land, food, etc.

OldBill wrote:

In the end, you’re presenting theories while I’m presenting the experiences of people who actually lived through it. Part of the stories my colleague tells involves the deals with the disbelief and depression among his older family members who realized the gold and silver they’d purposely hoarded for just that situation proved to be of no help at all.

It’s a sad story what happened to these people, but it must be understood WHY it happened to them. If suddenly you have a lot of people trying to sell ANYTHING, the price offered will eventually drop. I guarantee you one thing. Each and every ounce of gold for sale received a bid. Had they traded their gold on the open market, they would have received a more fair bid, instead of everyone dumping their gold in what might have been just one city in Uruguay.

Truly, your story isn’t so much about gold, but about how panic creates market extremes. Panic selling drops prices, panic buying raises them.

"I've been thinking about what it would be like if we got back together."
"You know it's too late for that."

[Handsome VicParticipant 1613]

I suppose one can argue about the immediate ability to buy goods and services with gold in a financial SHTF scenario, but it seems hard to dispute that someone in the Weimar Republic or Argentina or Zimbabwe who had deployed a portion of their currency into gold when the currency was still worth something, would today have more constant, residual purchasing power than someone who did not.

In other words, the gold continues to be a coveted store of value, whereas the Weimar Mark and Argentine Peso and Zimbabwe Trillion Dollar Banknote do not.

Acquiring a stable foreign currency probably does serves the immediate need as well or better than gold, if that option is available. Although I remark all fiat currencies today seem on the cusp of even higher inflation rates — public liabilities are so immense and government track records are so poor, I think the inevitable outcome must be to inflate away.

So for a small portion of my savings, I would rather have, than have not.

I'm going my own way. Maybe I'll see you there.

[Y_Participant 4591]

OldBill wrote:

No they don’t. If they had an actual intrinsic value, their traded value wouldn’t fluctuate. If no one will take your gold for what you want or need, it has no value.

OldBill wrote:

In the end, you’re presenting theories while I’m presenting the experiences of people who actually lived through it. Part of the stories my colleague tells involves the deals with the disbelief and depression among his older family members who realized the gold and silver they’d purposely hoarded for just that situation proved to be of no help at all.

Thank you for your time to discuss this. I believe we can agree to disagree. My privilege entirely.

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

Currency is anything used in trade for the items you need.

I was only given one natural currency to use.

(not gold, silver or even the fiat currency currently
being mistakenly called money).

My skills, services and time of life is all
I have to use in trade for the things I need.

According to the Constitution, “once considered the supreme
law of the land”, only Gold and silver coin is considered
lawful money of account. Everything else is fiat currency
including my skills, services and time of life.

My natural currency is given by my creator and
is very difficult to steal from me.
It can be stolen but not without detection.

The reason I gave my life back to my creator
is because I cannot protect it from government
theft by presumptive methods.
The government presumes the authority to
regulate my private financial activities.

The regulation of private rights is
redundant to the constitution.
Who says? The Supreme Court says.

THE ONLY NATURAL CURRENCY ANYONE IS GIVEN
BY DEFAULT IS THEIR “SKILLS, SERVICES AND
TIME OF LIFE. UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OTHERWISE.

love and respect to all

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[bigboy83Participant 11312]

Buy Silver, you can use it for barter purposes.

silver (Physical Silver, the good stuff)

Silver is a insurance, or inflation hedge. It will tank if we hit deflation.

By the way, deflationary depressions are rare but are the worst. 1871, 1929, 2008.

Shit Tested, Cunt Approved.

[OldBillParticipant]

TheSpice wrote:

By your definition, nothing would have intrinsic value, including gasoline, guns, land, food, etc.

Nothing has an intrinsic value. The value of something is only what another person will give you for it.

Truly, your story isn’t so much about gold, but about how panic creates market extremes. Panic selling drops prices, panic buying raises them.

You’re going to be using gold in those markets. Using gold doesn’t somehow make you immune in markets driven by panic buying and selling.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Anonymous 1]

OldBill wrote:

Nothing has an intrinsic value. The value of something is only what another person will give you for it.

There is a value for Gold as an Electrical Conductor. We would use it far more in the industry, but the speculators have artificially driven the price up.

Gold is not money, its just a metal with some very unique properties. Treating it as money, only hampers its practical application in the industry.

[bigboy83Participant 11312]

Silver is the second used commodity after Oil.

Has much more industry use than gold.

Shit Tested, Cunt Approved.

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

OldBill wrote:

Yumbo wrote:

gold and silver do have intrinsic value.

No they don’t. If they had an actual intrinsic value, their traded value wouldn’t fluctuate. If no one will take your gold for what you want or need, it has no value.

I disagree with your statement that you can’t spend it. In most all the prior economic crises in the west (before and after the world wars) gold was able to be exchanged for currency.

You’re making several presumptions, the chief of which is that currency conversion will be possible or it won’t occur at ruinous rates for the gold seller.

In the end, you’re presenting theories while I’m presenting the experiences of people who actually lived through it. Part of the stories my colleague tells involves the deals with the disbelief and depression among his older family members who realized the gold and silver they’d purposely hoarded for just that situation proved to be of no help at all.

Agreed Old Bill.

I have physical gold and silver not so much for SHTF, but for portfolio diversification, a hedge against inflation, and a long term storage of weath that is a universal commodity to “bridge” between fiat currencies when things stabilize after a collapse.

It’s a means of condensing a large amount of wealth, at present value, in a small space. But, like any commodity, it is subject to volatility, supply and demand, and utility. Utility being the biggest one in a SHTF scenario – you cannot eat gold/silver and the relative value is so high no one would be able to “make change for it”.

For SHTF, I invest in tools, manual skills (eg. medicine, carpentry, welding, brewing, building) food stocks, gun, bullets and beans.

Yet, I have no delusions. If we enter a doomsday economic meltdown, I’m only one man. I could be sitting on 5 years or preps and $300k in gold and silver with personal defence weapons. Sooner, rather than later, a bigger, stronger bully will walkin, overpower me, kill me and taken what I have. Having too much makes you a target. This is the fatal flaw of most preppers.

In these scenarios you want some supplies to get you over the hump. Skills and knowledge allows you to rebuild without drawing attention. It also means that you are the asset. It’s worth keeping you around to harness those skills.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

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