MGTOW undermines a unified front that the manosphere wants.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I am of the belief that in the non-MGTOW part of the manosphere, there is a longing for unity of all men to work together, overturn the oppressive systems out there against men, and make the world (or restore it to, if you are more tradcon) a state of “real men and women” where men get power, get fairness, and each get at least one good woman. There is the belief that if they just can get all men together to march, and work, then this collective paradise of a better life will happen.

Well, what I believe has happened is that MGTOW undermines all that. Men go their own ways individually, and negotiate life on their own terms, ends up threatening this united front that those in the non-MGTOW part of the manosphere are longing for. If men go MGTOW, who is going to lobby the courts for better custody rights in a divorce? If men don’t manage to follow the same techniques to become “real men” where is the pecking order that will end up having it so that alphas can rise and order other men around? And if MGTOW go MGTOW and can avoid women, then where will the power of a strike happen to be able to make society change its ways and get women to “clean up their act” and become “more feminine” (see the original MGTOW manifesto). You also have the case of those who wanted to end up defining what MGTOW was, that didn’t fit what a majority of MGTOW believed, so they could end up appointing themselves spokesmen for MGTOW.

Pretty much, if you don’t march to the same beat as those in the manosphere want, you will become an enemy of the manosphere.

And here is the video I did on this topic, but I figure I would also do a post here to discuss this:

Feel free to let me know your thoughts on this. I do say all this, with the understanding some MGTOW can also do PUA and MRA stuff, and also be Tradcon personally. However, I am speaking of the take the manosphere would have about MGTOW overall.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

“Alpha males”??
lol.
F~~~ PUA and f~~~ NEO-MASCULINITY.

Idea is to have structures and uniformity so that then there are the leaders (alphas) who can tell all the betas what to do. And they can also then cast those they disagree with as Omegas, an kick them out of the power structure, as a way to bully into uniformity for the front.

Neo-Masculinity… it is where aging PUAs go when they realize that the game they were involved in left them hollow lives.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[BurgundyParticipant 1525]

MGTOW is against subjugation of another man, and all(most) the others, are somewhat in a different range into subjugation of other men, according to their own ideals, and it is just completely against MGTOW idea.

Let another man go his own way, if he so wishes.

[aeragoanParticipant 1186]

Mgtow is never a front or movement or we don’t owe anything to this society….It is an idea n philosphy:-)…..Every individual in mgtow is very well capable enough to see wtf is going on this ruthless society…..mgtow does not listen to bulls~~~..and work towards betterment of their own life..and may be help other men,homeless guy who is suffered by the laws of this society passing by these manginas…..so just don’t try to teach and come Into our way…otherwise you will see the consequences will be far worse when the society going to ..collapsed….

[ScandinavianParticipant 590]

The big problem and the part that tradcons and PUAs don’t understand is that what we see today ARE “real” women and men. Like they are when the social masks are off. If they want women playing charades and stabbing them in the back, that’s fine by me, just don’t ask me to help making that happen as I prefer seeing women coming from a mile away so I get enough time to bolt my door.

[RoyDalParticipant]

The “manosphere” ain’t the boss of me.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[GrumpyParticipant]

Well. I am just thinking the opposite about this subject.
I find that “the Manosphere” undermines MGTOW. Which in itself is not really a big issue, however, the big issue to me is, it seems like it really undermines being a free man (individual). Feminism on steroids, with the same “do it my way or else” attitudes, language, and general bulls~~~. I’ve been to AVF(supposed) Men, and other similar sites. I can do without it thank you. I pretty much had enough of lesser people trying to raise themselves up at a cost to me, so I don’t bother with them. I want or need anything, I work for it myself, i don’t expect, demand, nor desire it to be given to me at the expense of others.
Someone wants women’s attention, go for it. Just don’t tell me not caring about it is an issue i need to address. I am a firm believer in equality, so I can ignore bulls~~~ demands from both genders.
Man up… hahahahaha that is a typical demand from someone who refuses to do something for themselves fully expecting to shame another into doing it for them.
Obviously, it is either blatant stupidity or willful ignorance, for anyone to not be able to grasp the simple concept or statement of “I am not interested in this, so I’ll go do something I am interested in”.

Take it for what is is, or leave it. Either way I don’t care anymore.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Grumpy, I don’t disagree with you. What I am seeing now is that, as MGTOW is, it doesn’t fit in with the rest of the said manosphere at all. Because going your own way ends up not marching in step with the manosphere, the manosphere attacks it, and the ways of the manosphere don’t work for MGTOW. MAYBE MGTOW can indirectly benefit from some things in there, how the manosphere wants things done doesn’t fit all. So, the rest of the manosphere goes off on MGTOW for not fitting in.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Well, what I believe has happened is that MGTOW undermines all that.

Not even close. What’s happening is MGTOW WORKS, and is FREE. The MRA circlejerk doesn’t, but sure wants your donations and book sales and whatnot. They don’t care about results just so long as the cash flow continues.

Notice how the rest of the “manosphere” only started denigrating MGTOW after they realized they couldn’t cash in on MGTOW.

All the MRA marching and demonstrating and petitioning and getting down on their knees and whining and begging to get a little of their sovereignty back after they’ve already handed it over to the almighty vagina will only ever result in bemused condescension. At best.

MGTOW don’t play that fool’s game. MGTOW never hand over their sovereignty in the first place. MGTOW don’t beg. They tell society: “Deal with us on our terms or we won’t deal with you at all. And then you can go dig your own coal etc.”

[GrumpyParticipant]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

So, the rest of the manosphere goes off on MGTOW for not fitting in.

Rich, I’m cherry picking this part.
The rest of the manosphere can kiss my starfish. I am not required to “fit in” anymore. The demographic(s) I belong to are not wanted nor needed until there is hard, nasty work to be done, or at minimum, something needs to be paid for. I have no obligation to conform to anything that does not suit MY needs, offers ME no additional benefits for additional “responsibilities”. So I tapped out, fk’em. (thanks ILA).

sidecar wrote:

Notice how the rest of the “manosphere” only started denigrating MGTOW after they realized they couldn’t cash in on MGTOW.

This is so frigging true. The irony is that due to crap like this, I am more willing these days just to let them bleed out rather than offer aid.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

sidecar wrote:

richardhutnik wrote:

Well, what I believe has happened is that MGTOW undermines all that.

Not even close. What’s happening is MGTOW WORKS, and is FREE. The MRA circlejerk doesn’t, but sure wants your donations and book sales and whatnot. They don’t care about results just so long as the cash flow continues.
Notice how the rest of the “manosphere” only started denigrating MGTOW after they realized they couldn’t cash in on MGTOW.
All the MRA marching and demonstrating and petitioning and getting down on their knees and whining and begging to get a little of their sovereignty back after they’ve already handed it over to the almighty vagina will only ever result in bemused condescension. At best.
MGTOW don’t play that fool’s game. MGTOW never hand over their sovereignty in the first place. MGTOW don’t beg. They tell society: “Deal with us on our terms or we won’t deal with you at all. And then you can go dig your own coal etc.”

I think you summed up a core point of what I was saying. MGTOW gets growth. The rest of the manosphere finds that MGTOW is getting men into it, and thinks they can use MGTOW. The manosphere finds MGTOW is of no value to them, so it turns on MGTOW. At the point the rest of the manosphere finds MGTOW doesn’t play ball, it attacks, to try to block other men from finding it, or turning their noses against it. Poison the name, so no one plays. The big failure there is that, repeatedly failing to do anything for man on a personal level, the man will end up dropping all that and dropping out. They will go MGTOW, even if they don’t use “MGTOW” as a label. All the other ones need the label to function. MGTOW doesn’t. The label does help for communication purposes. The rest of the manosphere is so last century in how it tackles things. MGTOW fits much better with the way things are.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[EntropyParticipant 902]

To me, it is simple:

If you want my money- F~~~ YOU.

If you try to tell me how to spend my money (via advertisements)- F~~~ YOU.

Sounds like i wouldn’t get along with the manosphere.

"Compare your lives to mine and then kill yourselves" -BBR

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Entropy wrote:

To me, it is simple:
If you want my money- F~~~ YOU.
If you try to tell me how to spend my money (via advertisements)- F~~~ YOU.
Sounds like i wouldn’t get along with the manosphere.

Some of the manosphere wants your soul, if they can’t get your wallet. They want you to conform what what they say, like pump iron the way RooshV says with Neo-Masculinity. It also involves marching with PUAs and a dozen of other things. As bad as it is for them to get your money, them getting your soul is worse. Once a group gets your soul, they will get your wallet.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[EntropyParticipant 902]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Entropy wrote:

To me, it is simple:If you want my money- F~~~ YOU.If you try to tell me how to spend my money (via advertisements)- F~~~ YOU.Sounds like i wouldn’t get along with the manosphere.

Some of the manosphere wants your soul, if they can’t get your wallet. They want you to conform what what they say, like pump iron the way RooshV says with Neo-Masculinity. It also involves marching with PUAs and a dozen of other things. As bad as it is for them to get your money, them getting your soul is worse. Once a group gets your soul, they will get your wallet.

Excellent point.

You want my time and aren’t paying me for it- (SEE ABOVE)

"Compare your lives to mine and then kill yourselves" -BBR

[Jack HarperParticipant 2863]

MGTOW to me is about the freedom to find contentment and self actualization without conforming to what society has told us “real men” should be.

Ironically, I think MGTOW philosophy (would that be the correct term?) will ultimately lead to more success and change than the men’s rights movement could ever achieve. When enough people check out of the system, the system will eventually notice and have to change.

Yet, changing this flawed system isn’t our goal. Our goal is simply finding our own peace and contentment within the limited space society still allows us.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I am starting to think STEALTHY MGTOW is actually Bruce Wayne :-).

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[DDJParticipant 1880]

With respect, I believe that many of those who are critical MGTOW are upset because MGTOW is a philosophy…not an activist movement or system.

What feminism has shown is that gender based systems don’t work. Third wave feminism is starting to turn on itself…it’s such a victim of it’s own success it’s struggling to stay relevant…an iconic example of this is the feminazi complaints about manspreading or office temperature. The reason these issues have gained such traction is because feminism already succeeded in its mission of demonizing traditional masculinity, the male identity, and traditional male virtues.

Gender inequality was fixed a long time ago…but women never got the memo.

When men fix something…they go, “Hey bro…it’s fixed.” Then move on to the next thing. Women could learn a lot from this.

George Carlin really hit the nail on the head about feminism (I’m paraphrasing here)…you hate patriarchy so much you rebel against it by copying it?

That said, I personally believe that an organized men’s rights movement will just perpetuate gender relations issues. MGTOW takes the right approach of complete disengagement from toxic feminists while supporting men who maintain their frame. The other advantage of this is that without an organized movement MGTOW avoids moles and other propaganda plants, as well as those Sarkeesian styled narcissists who are only there to make money and celebrity off the backs of others.

Every woman is a slut, if you catch her on the right day.

[MonkeyMindParticipant 5340]

The manosphere are trying to fight a battle that they’ve already lost. They’re just too stupid to realise it.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

DDJ wrote:

With respect, I believe that many of those who are critical MGTOW are upset because MGTOW is a philosophy…not an activist movement or system.

I do take there is life style and a social phenomenon effect involved with MGTOW also, both of which can’t be tapped to be exploited, so there is frustration by the rest of the manosphere over it that it isn’t like you said. The end is each man’s end for himself, not for men collectively also.

Anyhow, that is my take, and probably the parts that interest myself more. I do interject into the philosophy side, but I know to try to nail anything as a universal and impose it will cause a revolt against what I say.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Jack HarperParticipant 2863]

DDJ wrote:

Gender inequality was fixed a long time ago…but women never got the memo.

I have to disagree with you here. I think they got the memo and fully understand that gender equality was achieved in the seventies. No, I believe third wave feminism is about greed. “Let’s just keep riding this gravy train and see how much more s~~~ we can get for team woman.”

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