MGTOW DSM-I

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

(Not in intro section on purpose)

As many of you know, I’m new here. Day 3/4?

I found MGTOW about 5-6 months ago? Stumbled upon it while doing research for a book on psychology and recent (3 years) neuropsychological breakthroughs.

Newer and more effective diagnostic methods are one of the key topics in this book, as the current diagnostic (conversational) methods are .. Well.. Don’t get me started – this is a MGTOW forum.

As I’ve been talking to people, (I’m the opposite of a Ghost) I’ve found the ‘shaming’ trend common. It amazes me, and is something you would be familiar with: Emotional attacks, straw man arguments, etc instead of an intelligent address to a logical argument.

I entitled this post DSM, (riffing off the name of the Psychology Handbook/bible/ultimate reference) referring to the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual, currently in version 5.

Understanding psychology [both genders] (personality disorders) takes on a very clear light when you take into account the reality MGTOW know so well!

Of course, most MGTOW are probably not familiar with Maslow’s Hierarchy (priority) of Needs, but when you take into account each gender and how they go about trying to achieve these needs in different ways..

.. the FULL PICTURE comes into view!

You realize Women can never get past level 3 of the hierarchy because they prioritize level 2! ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN! They’re LOCKED. The children provide the woman with their ‘Self Actualization’ (Creativity) as they take AUTHORSHIP of the child.

I’m sure many of you have heard a woman say ‘MY CHILD’ not ‘OUR CHILD’ and were blown away? Don’t be.

It is her believing in her mind (subconscious, therefore she won’t admit it, but this is proven in the laws and beliefs of society), she did it alone.

The new human being is HER ‘CREATION’. If she doesn’t like her creation, she can destroy ‘it’ (A human, but since it is her creation, the child is an IT unless she WILLS it to be in existance)

If she deigns her creation to exist, then it is her ‘mark on the world’. Her ‘invention’, thus the closest she can come to ‘self actualization’ (The top level of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs) This is a BIG reason why women NEVER CAN OR WILL invent anything meaningful (world changing/paradigm shifting) in the world.

Look it up. Literally nothing (except maybe, though I don’t know of any, but I accept I may have missed some things) is or was invented by a single woman alone. EVER.

Maslow’s (please, check it out. It was done in the 50’s so his break downs of what each level means are weak sauce, but the concept is SOLID) – Lower level has to be satisfied to get to the next.

Level 2 is security, level 3 is love and acceptance.

Level 3 is a woman’s ‘top’! Children are their ‘EXTENSION’ (which gives you the Narcissistic connection, knowing that Narcs believe loved ones are extensions of themselves – ie Prosthetic limbs, such that you need to appear and function acceptably lest you be discarded or lest you be subject to manipulation such that you should change to function/appear in the way the Narc expects)

I know I’m rambling. What I would have my MGTOW brothers know is this: It is all connected. The personality disorders. Priorities. Gender imperatives. Hypergamy. It is all connected.

And when you get the WHOLE picture it is AMAZING!

AND! More importantly, questions can be engineered for male and female to ‘FORCE’ red pill knowledge.

———–

Note: I don’t believe women have the same ability to have ‘faith’ as men either. Men can BELIEVE before they see – which is ‘faith’ Women have to SEE before they believe! – Sorry.. for another post..

— Sorry. My passion got the best of me. —

Patterns have emerged while doing all this research (and taking it to the ‘streets’ so to speak) and the EXCITING thing is that the philosophy completely bears out in the real world!

I mean no offense to my brothers in MGTOW when I say, mine and your ANECDOTAL experience or the experiences we find on the internet are meaningless to the academic fields and intelligentsia.

This post is already so long.

HERE IS THE THING THOUGH:

I will soon create a way for anyone who wants, a way to FORCE men/women to take the RED PILL and see the reality of Gender Imperatives and Hypergamy.

But..

Let me ask you guys.. Do we REALLY want the world to know the reality of gender dynamics? Or is there more benefit in knowing, not being able to fall into the traps and walk (in this respect) outside of common understanding.

NOW THAT is the question…!

[Mr. ManParticipant 2916]

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

Let me ask you guys.. Do we REALLY want the world to know the reality of gender dynamics? Or is there more benefit in knowing, not being able to fall into the traps and walk (in this respect) outside of common understanding.

I must have read an encyclopedia worth of MGTOW content in the last two years, and that’s the first time I’ve ever read the question you posed.

My gut reaction is no, we don’t want the rest of the world to know. Let each man discover MGTOW according to his his own time and need.

[BushidoParticipant 637]

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

I found MGTOW about 5-6 months ago? Stumbled upon it while doing research for a book on psychology and recent (3 years) neuropsychological breakthroughs.

Good field of study! I can’t yet admit that my understanding of psychology is at any academic level, though I’ve certainly put much time and effort into understanding communication in all of its verbal and non-verbal forms. It is an extremely valuable asset when understood properly!

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

As I’ve been talking to people, (I’m the opposite of a Ghost) I’ve found the ‘shaming’ trend common. It amazes me, and is something you would be familiar with: Emotional attacks, straw man arguments, etc instead of an intelligent address to a logical argument.

Absolutely! Being social creatures, women tend to require socialization – and thus know how to use society effectively. Shaming tactics are an easy way to destroy a person’s reputation beyond repair, especially considering the advent of the Internet. No longer does a village have you walk down a street crying “Shame!” , a single individual can call upon you the wrath of the globe with the touch of a button!

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

I mean no offense to my brothers in MGTOW when I say, mine and your ANECDOTAL experience or the experiences we find on the internet are meaningless to the academic fields and intelligentsia.

It has to be proven with philosophical tests that are not logically refutable.

You are absolutely correct. As Ben Shapiro so eloquently stated, “Facts do not care about your feelings.” While anecdotal evidence is in fact evidence, more empirical data is required to demonstrate why a certain philosophy is superior to another. That alone is a long-winded debate and one for which I’m still not sure I’m mentally capable of getting into.

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

Let me ask you guys.. Do we REALLY want the world to know the reality of gender dynamics? Or is there more benefit in knowing, not being able to fall into the traps and walk (in this respect) outside of common understanding.

NOW THAT is the question…!

Indeed. I do believe it is valuable for all people to understand that the two genders have differences and that their differences manifest themselves in starkly different ways. Understanding is key to dealing with such things! Ignorance truly is bliss, but understanding is the gift that keeps on giving.

Also: Welcome to the forum, brother! I eagerly await your future posts.

Logic guides your actions, emotion guides your morals. Only you may decide how you use them.

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

Thank you Bushido!

Regarding Your Comment (correct, but let’s go deeper!):

Absolutely! Being social creatures, women tend to require socialization – and thus know how to use society effectively. Shaming tactics are an easy way to destroy a person’s reputation beyond repair, especially considering the advent of the Internet. No longer does a village have you walk down a street crying “Shame!” , a single individual can call upon you the wrath of the globe with the touch of a button!

To get REALLY deep, and get to the FORMULAS and TESTS that actually work, what I’ve done is build upon why people do ANYTHING in life (there is a reason) and then to realize using gener imperatives the PRIORITIES!

“women tend to require socialization” Of course. Being part of community is primal and part of men AND women. (Maslow’s 2nd level, one of the 4 reasons why you do ANYTHING) The difference is WOMEN GREATLY prioritize it while only weaker (Beta – stay in the cave) men have those levels of prioritization on group ‘acceptance’.

‘Acceptance’ into a group is a primal necessity (2nd level of Maslow’s) that goes back to primal ages where if you were exiled from the community, your survival rate and potential for procreation went down dramatically.

One of the things I do as I synthesize psychology into MGTOW is realize that ‘ABSOLUTES’ don’t exist, but rather, exist as percentages.

Indulge me and let me give you one aspect (love) as an example as to how thinking in absolutes don’t give ‘clarity’:

You’ve probably heard in some MGTOW circles/videos/posts/etc this:

“Women don’t love like that.”, or “Women can’t love.”

— You guys are smart. I won’t spoon feed this —

Love? What is love? Without defining a term, the statement is worthless/meaningless. But if we go to the accepted “Types of Love”/ forms of love (google it)

..We get the 8 types (accepted by christianity as well, as a great Christian and Apologist C.S Lewis used this as foundational for his books as well as others) of love originally realized by Ancient Greek philosophers, and whose usage was used in the original biblical texts, e.g. (greek) ‘agapio’ (aka Agape) as well as other forms used by the apostle Paul.. I could go on.. So accept the 8 types are real and more foundational than ‘I just feel it’ or ‘I know it when I feel it’.

NOTICE: Women (toward others/their man/men) they are 4 people psychologically. Single. Married. With Child/Children. After Children are Grown. [Note, anything close to innovation by a women is ‘after grown’ stage, or not being able to have children.]

NOTE: Women cannot AGAPE (sacrificial) love a man, however they can toward their children. The closest they can come is toward a man (at some percentage) after children are grown/gone, and this still isn’t anywhere near what a man can do. They will not sacrifice themselves for a man. But this is 1 type of love. Their handicap. They can do some (3?) of the others the same level as a man depending on their stage of life.

As you look at this, remember they have 4 stages of life. Several of the types of love are (naturally) short term for both sexes – eros for example.

“Eros” or Erotic Love. The first kind of love is Eros.
Simple: Passion. Sex. Hot! F*#!k yeah!

“Philia” or Affectionate Love. (being affected by/ affecting someone)
Simple: Laying with your children watching a movie you watched as a child, sharing that experience.

“Storge” or Familiar Love.
Simple: I love my bed. I can’t wait to get home!

“Ludus” or Playful Love.
Simple: Feeling close and bonded while playing games or sharing creative passions.

“Mania” or Obsessive Love.
Simple: Jealousy and Possessiveness, which is seen as dark when controlling. (using overt [physical actions] /covert [shaming – not traceable] tactics)

“Pragma” or Enduring Love.
Simple: Familiarity. Old couple holding hands.

“Philautia” or Self Love.
Simple: “self love and respect” is IMPORTANT and empowering! The problem happens when this is over 50% vs Agape when in a relationship. Since women literally can’t do Agape love (Beyond 10%ish with men) this shows as Overt or Covert Narcissism.

“Agape” or Selfless Love.
Simple: Jesus. Need I explain? Complete self sacrifice.

——-

We all have a horror story, and I’m sure some have much worse, but I wanted to actually UNDERSTAND this crap. It works to just say ‘WOMEN SUCK’. but I wanted to understand WHY they suck! It is the (programmer) PUZZLE SOLVER in me!

It was driving me crazy to just say, ‘they suck!’

So first, to understand why ANYONE (male/female) do anything:
(Tony Robins talks of the 6 reasons)
[It can be broken down to 4]
(Maslow had a HIERARCHY for those things (found this key a few months ago), which is a ‘revelation’ as it PRIORITIZES those reasons why you do anything.. HUGE revelation.)

..Sorry for all the babble.

[bladeParticipant]

FORCE ?

THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .

[BushidoParticipant 637]

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

“women tend to require socialization” Of course. Being part of community is primal and part of men AND women. (Maslow’s 2nd level, one of the 4 reasons why you do ANYTHING) The difference is WOMEN GREATLY prioritize it while only weaker (Beta – stay in the cave) men have those levels of prioritization on group ‘acceptance’.

‘Acceptance’ into a group is a primal necessity (2nd level of Maslow’s) that goes back to primal ages where if you were exiled from the community, your survival rate and potential for procreation went down dramatically.

Forgive my ignorance, I neglected the evolutionary necessity behind social acceptance and how it plays into survival. Only human after all 🙂

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

NOTE: Women cannot AGAPE (sacrificial) love a man, however they can toward their children. The closest they can come is toward a man (at some percentage) after children are grown/gone, and this still isn’t anywhere near what a man can do. They will not sacrifice themselves for a man. But this is 1 type of love. Their handicap. They can do some (3?) of the others the same level as a man depending on their stage of life.

I’d like to know your reasoning behind this. Why do you believe that women are incapable of the agape (sacrificial) style love? (No worries, I am very aware of anecdotal evidence – but is there some actual neuro-physiological evidence behind this?

My understanding:
Men are easily capable of inseminating many mates simultaneously; thus Men are more expendable in the fact that once conception occurs, their role in procreation is essentially complete. Typically the Man will remain with the woman at least until birth to ensure their own offspring make it. Women, on the other hand, bear the child for 9 months until birth and then must safeguard the child until an appropriate age in which the child may fend for themselves and go on to bear children of their own. For me, it would make sense that the female would be more interested in survival of their offspring over the survival of their mate with this explanation taken into account.

JustAnotherGuy, I assume your evidence is similar? If not, I’m eager to see what your explanation may be!

Logic guides your actions, emotion guides your morals. Only you may decide how you use them.

[RedDawnParticipant 1391]

JustAnotherGuy wrote:

Note: I don’t believe women have the same ability to have ‘faith’ as men either. Men can BELIEVE before they see – which is ‘faith’ Women have to SEE before they believe! – Sorry.. for another post..

Women will believe 2+2=fish if it suits them. I believe that women are capable of not feeling guilty for unethical acts they commit because they are masters at finding a way to justify their actions. They lie to themselves until they believe it, which doesn’t take very long. How often does a woman admit she’s wrong?

Faith is a belief in something that is yet not proven right? Women have faith in their own denial.

Men tend to hold more to virtues and women tend to manipulate men via those virtues, in order for them to think they’ll get validation and sex.

Lastly I think love is a projection for a human beings need for security. All these forms of love give us a sense of security and why people can become so emotional and destructive when things aren’t working out like they had hoped. Ever left a woman trying to actively ‘monkey branch’ on you. Guarantee you’ll be the obsession of her ruminations for a very long time.

Courage is the key to life itself - Morgan Freeman

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

Bushido,

Re: “I’d like to know your reasoning behind this. Why do you believe that women are incapable of the agape (sacrificial) style love? (No worries, I am very aware of anecdotal evidence – but is there some actual neuro-physiological evidence behind this?”

NO. You are correct, and I was not. In fact, my statement was way too ‘extreme’ (hyperbolic) regarding them not being capable.

The sacrificial love (of the 8 types I refer to) is more natural for men because of : societal conditioning (movies/books/music/etc) is geared to refer to sacrificial action as ‘love’ (and it is – one type. Maybe the most important) and men feel naturally inclined as their testosterone levels are higher.

Anyone (any gender) can do any type anytime, but it requires more of a consciousness of the person’s character.

Imagine people do things and react (emotionally) reflexively / autopilot without thinking philosophically how an action, feeling aligns with the person they consider themselves to be or want to be.

I don’t say women are ‘bad’. I say they’re different and that is O.K! Just understand the differences and don’t go into things blind. I suppose that would be my point.

To be ‘balanced’ it could be argued that Women are better at Philia Love (Affectionate Love).

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

RedDawn wrote:

Faith is a belief in something that is yet not proven right? Women have faith in their own denial.
…
Men tend to hold more to virtues and women tend to manipulate men via those virtues, in order for them to think they’ll get validation and sex.

I used to teach that ‘Faith’ was an action toward something yet to be seen. E.g. Columbus (or Vikings or whomever) sailed out HOPING that they would find land, and BELIEVING enough such that they were willing to take an action to REALIZE that ‘Faith’ Then after discovery, Faith became fact. Edison had Faith that if he tried enough, it would work <just a thought>

Regarding Virtues: If we imagine having (and raising) a child is a HUGE (Biggest?) source of self esteem a woman can have, and that men are PROUD but don’t seem to have that same ‘SENSE OF OWNERSHIP’.

Then we might suppose that men have to create and conquer some aspect of life, creating something in the world to have that same sense, the man would have to have a very (best he can) consistent set of virtues (character?) to be able to steer the ship of his life toward that ultimate goal of ‘creating’ something, i.e. making a mark on the world.

This isn’t a completely thought out idea, so pardon holes and mistakes.
Just another thought.

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

Love:

Different types– 8 according to the Ancient Greek Philosophers.

Do you LIKE anything?

At what point does LIKE become Love?

Ever cried when you lost something? You could say you liked it I bet. But to cry over something suggests a passion that is beyond like.

If your point is that permanent love doesn’t exist? Perhaps, depending on your faith, that argument is not too hard to make.

My theme is that Women and Men love differently.

In one of my relationships, I had a woman say, “I can never love you like you love me.” At first of course, this was staggering and part of why that relationship didn’t work.

But later, I studied and realized, this isn’t ‘bad’/’evil’ I used to have a dog (grew up with her) that loved me (I think) but she didn’t love me like I loved her. It didn’t make her (my dog Lucy) bad, just different. I once had a cat I could say the same about. And the kitty didn’t love like my doggie.

I think maybe if men realized they’re not going to be loved in the same way, their hearts wont be so badly broken.

Plus, for Men who were hurt, to understand that ALL (emotional) PAIN comes from COMPARISON:

Maybe..

1 Thinking of the past AND COMPARING that to what was expected.
2.Thinking of an unknowable future vs one that was expected.

It is possible that if you have a good plan for a future even better than the one you imagined, and FAITH (enough belief you do something about it) that it will happen, the pain is MUCH less and/or gone.

I find it very hard to feel emotional pain when living in the moment. Like when I’m typing this reply for example 🙂

[Not advocating relationships though. In this society, it is not only unfair legally, but also gender expectations aren’t fair.]

..Just a thought.

[JustAnotherGuyParticipant 143]

Men tend to hold more to virtues and women tend to manipulate men via those virtues, in order for them to think they’ll get validation and sex.

Red Dawn, Could we not say, men tend to have more pride and ego (self love) and women use that as leverage to manipulate men.

You could say men’s ego/pride is the stick (lever). The more ego and pride, the longer and stronger the ‘stick’ (pardon the pun) .. The current society is the ‘fulcrum’

Archimedes said, “Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.”

— Just a thought.

[Author]

Posts