I found myself reading Epictetus’ Manual, or Enchiridion, since I wanted to improve my knowledge when it comes to philosophy. I wanted to start with the stoics, and so, I went with his Manual.
I found that some of his teachings can be very helpful to us Mgtow, so I’m here to share.
Obviously, I won’t do the whole of it, I’ll just develop a few points so you guys can have a taste for it and read the thingy yourself if it interests you.
First, the importance of the separation and what you can and can’t impact/change.
“1.Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.”
Some may disagree that we have no control over our own bodies with all the progresses medicine has accomplished through history since this was written, however, as his philosophy dictates what is important his is your own actions and thoughts, which are the only things we have total control over. Indeed, you can be healthy and still die young, so health is thus improvable, but not 100% controlable, in my opinion.
Mgtow implications of this: You can’t fix society, and if you do try to change it, you will most likely end up like MRA’s and engage in sterile debates with people holding gynocentric worldviews. Here are good videos stardusk made about it:
If you take all this potential energy and apply it on yourself, chances are you’ll increase your happiness.
Next in point 1:
“The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.”
Implications:
Do not get mad at something you can’t change. See what can make you hapy if worked on ,and get to it. Female nature is female nature, you won’t change thousands of years of evolution with a 45 mins debate on the internet. Don’t try to change 40+ years of feminist indoctrination, that’ll also fail. Prepare your life boat and let the goddamn Titanic sink, those who drown were also responsible for their own behaviour, so if s~~~ goes sour and they’re not prepared because they thought it was unsinkable, it’s their fault, not yours!
Next in point 1:
“Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.
Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, “You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be.” And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you. ”
The last part is especially important: <<“You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be.” And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you. >>
One of the cores of Epictitus’s philosophy concerns the question of representations.
If you are disappointed by something or someone, it is because you didn’t see it as it was, you fooled yourself and got mad/sad/whatever because you realized it wasn’t what you thought it was. (Then comes the importance of reason when it comes having accurate and unbiased representations of what things really are!)
One of the examples he gives is: (taken partly from the Discourses for this one)
1.The cosmos has need of things that are coming into existence, things that will exist, and things that have fulfilled their existence 2. Hence, everything born must likewise die so that the cycle of change in the cosmos may be accomplished and it does not grind to a halt 3.Dying is simply the time when the body is separated from the soul and the material of which one was composed returns to the cosmos 4.Hence, death is inevitable, and so nothing evil or tragic. etc etc
He also puts it more shortly: “For it is not death or pain that is to be feared, but the fear of pain or death.”
Basically, from a mgtow point of view, if you think living without women is awful because you’re afraid of it or because you’ve always been told so, you will be miserable without women. If you make realistic assessments of modern-day dating, you will find many articles disproving the fact that married people with kids are supposedly happier, and that overall dating or women in general aren’t “all that”.
A realistic view of things will teach you that happiness depends on you, the decisions you take and the worldviews you adopt, and that once you control your desires and representations, no one or nothing can make your life miserable.
Well that’s only the first point and a bit more, and it’s already hella long, so I hope it gave you ideas and made you want to read further into that. 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions.
Do you think these things really are in our own control? Remember we are talking about a book written in the 2nd Century and the world was a very different place then, no double speak politicians endlessly tubed into our lives by 24 hour rolling media, no advertising to convince us to work jobs we hate in order to buy s~~~ we don’t need to impress those we do not like, no cultural morays built up over millennia to control our every thought and action with the aim of making us good productive members of society, what ever the hell society is meant to be. All systems of control designed to indoctrinate, to plant seeds of belief in us which grow over our lives and are made visible as opinions.
I think very few have full control over their own opinions. Maybe some have more control than others, but I don’t think anyone has complete control. Desire and its flip-side aversion are functions of opinion. If my opinion is that a flower is beautiful I will desire it. If my opinion is that the rat is repulsive then I will have aversion to it. And so pursuit follows desire as avoidance follows aversion.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions.
Do you think these things really are in our own control? Remember we are talking about a book written in the 2nd Century and the world was a very different place then, no double speak politicians endlessly tubed into our lives by 24 hour rolling media, no advertising to convince us to work jobs we hate in order to buy s~~~ we don’t need to impress those we do not like, no cultural morays built up over millennia to control our every thought and action with the aim of making us good productive members of society, what ever the hell society is meant to be. All systems of control designed to indoctrinate, to plant seeds of belief in us which grow over our lives and are made visible as opinions.
I think very few have full control over their own opinions. Maybe some have more control than others, but I don’t think anyone has complete control. Desire and its flip-side aversion are functions of opinion. If my opinion is that a flower is beautiful I will desire it. If my opinion is that the rat is repulsive then I will have aversion to it. And so pursuit follows desire as avoidance follows aversion.
I see what you’re getting at, and I can understand. I think Epictetus would tell you that social brainwashing is basically society trying to force feed you erroneous representations deep enough for you to be unable to remove them and acquire realistic ones.
Plus, I guess that back then there was a certain deal of brainwashing going on too, after all Socrates got executed for “corrupting the mind of the youth”, or somthing along these lines, when what he did was trying to get people to ask themselves some questions.
I’m not denying that taking total control over your own thoughts and actions is hard, but I don’t think freedom is a really easy thing to attain, and I’m willing to put out the effort. 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
I’m not denying that taking total control over your own thoughts and actions is hard, but I don’t think freedom is a really easy thing to attain, and I’m willing to put out the effort.
Absolutely, it is hard to attain but is a very worthwhile goal. We have taken the red pill and so are at least on the way now.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
I’m not denying that taking total control over your own thoughts and actions is hard, but I don’t think freedom is a really easy thing to attain, and I’m willing to put out the effort.
Absolutely, it is hard to attain but is a very worthwhile goal. We have taken the red pill and so are at least on the way now.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
Agreed. 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
What would you recommend? I have in mind a total physical, mental and spiritual d-tox, get rid of all the old garbage. Although I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water, I wouldn’t want to reformat the hard drive completely 😉
I think I’ll try meditation, I did it before and it does help to dig down to the core of ones own identity.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
I have been reading the Epictetus recently, and I definitely think it is a philosophy compatible with Mgtow. I personally like the “letting go” mindset in Buddhism a little better, but I have been working to incorporate stoicism into my life. You said you were looking at other philosophies too. Was Skepticism one? I’ve always found that one interesting. I was having a discussion with a philosophy professor in my freshman year of college and he recommended I look into it based on some of my thoughts I shared with him.
What would you recommend? I have in mind a total physical, mental and spiritual d-tox, get rid of all the old garbage. Although I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water, I wouldn’t want to reformat the hard drive completely
I think I’ll try meditation, I did it before and it does help to dig down to the core of ones own identity.
I have been reading the Epictetus recently, and I definitely think it is a philosophy compatible with Mgtow. I personally like the “letting go” mindset in Buddhism a little better, but I have been working to incorporate stoicism into my life. You said you were looking at other philosophies too. Was Skepticism one? I’ve always found that one interesting. I was having a discussion with a philosophy professor in my freshman year of college and he recommended I look into it based on some of my thoughts I shared with him.
I didn’t look into that yet, I’m fairly new to philosophy, I still have a metric f~~~ton of books left to read! 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
What would you recommend? I have in mind a total physical, mental and spiritual d-tox, get rid of all the old garbage. Although I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water, I wouldn’t want to reformat the hard drive completely
I think I’ll try meditation, I did it before and it does help to dig down to the core of ones own identity.
Meditation should definitely help, I’ve also found that a bit of sport helps evacuating negative thoughts and allows to think more clearly. According to some studies, it seems that exercice improves the blood flow to organs, brain included, I guess that’s why it helps !
Other than that, I find that just taking a bit of time to do something that you find intellectually stimulating for a moment before thinking about personnal issues or whatever does help. For me, it’s mostly reading, be it novels or poetry. It seems to sharpen my mind a bit for some reason. It may be something else for you, since your interests are probably different. 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
No, I have never tried fasting but I’ve heard it is good for detoxing the body. I have worked extensively in middle Eastern countries and muslims have reported that fasting during ramadan gives them some sort of spiritual energy. But then again they say a lot of things…
I have no problem with belief so long as it is based on some sort of logical framework incorporating facts. Belief based on dogma or some body’s say so is highly suspect. If you are interested in skepticism you might also be interested in epistemology as both study the nature of knowledge and whether beliefs are valid.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
Meditation should definitely help, I’ve also found that a bit of sport helps evacuating negative thoughts and allows to think more clearly. According to some studies, it seems that exercice improves the blood flow to organs, brain included, I guess that’s why it helps !
Other than that, I find that just taking a bit of time to do something that you find intellectually stimulating for a moment before thinking about personnal issues or whatever does help. For me, it’s mostly reading, be it novels or poetry. It seems to sharpen my mind a bit for some reason. It may be something else for you, since your interests are probably different. 🙂
Good advice. I know physical exercise is very good for mental as well as physical health, but it has to be something which requires some sort of skill. Running on a treadmill will not work, not for me anyway. I used to do martial arts when I was younger and I read a book called “moving zen”. It was the account of a western man learning karate in japan during the 1960s. The author describes a physical and mental state achieved through practicing karate where it becomes a meditation, hence moving zen. But it need not be as extreme as that, anything which requires ones full attention often while performing a repetitive action is also meditative. Juggling is good, as is golf.
“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.”
The author describes a physical and mental state achieved through practicing karate where it becomes a meditation, hence moving zen. But it need not be as extreme as that, anything which requires ones full attention often while performing a repetitive action is also meditative. Juggling is good, as is golf.
Thanks for posting such an in depth, thoughtful article. You obviously spent a lot of time with this. It will take some time to digest everything. Thanks again
A contemporary application of Stoicism. Reading that book was like taking a pill for the mind. Maybe even a red pill.
Thanks, will check that out! 🙂
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
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