MGTOW and didn't know it

[DybbukParticipant 182]

Hey everybody. I’m 46 and at the surface level, I’ve been living an MGTOW lifestyle for practically my entire life. Never married, no long-term serious relationships, no kids, and very little visible feminine influence. In recent years this has been by choice. When I was younger, it was because I had no choice.

The story of my youth is painfully familiar to many. Too much of a dorky weirdo to get a girlfriend, didn’t even get a date until my 20’s, but was obsessed with females and saw them as the one and only path to bliss. My lack of any results with women was partly because of my personality, and partly because I simply had no idea how to meet women, other than chance encounters in real life. This didn’t change until the dawn of the popular Internet (AOL) in the mid-90’s, which coincided with me getting out on my own and starting my career.

At that point in my life I was able to start dating a lot, purely because I put a massive amount of brute force effort into finding women online, via dating sites, chat rooms, and IM chat. It was almost like a second full-time job. I never questioned whether it was worth the effort, because I saw it as fulfilling my destiny. For the first time in my life, I had some modest “success” with women in terms of getting some dates and occasional sex, from women of average attractiveness at best. Love…the fairy tale romance…soulmate…these things eluded me.

The weight of countless rejections and disappointments wore me down and within a few years I entered the next phase. I crossed into a new reality, but it took me more than a decade to realize it. I thought things were still the same…pursuing women, because it was the key to making my life better and bringing me happiness. But my heart wasn’t in it anymore. I didn’t spend nearly as much time in pursuit. And when I did, things were different. I started finding women to be tiring and annoying. The courtship process grated on me. I would often stop calling a woman out of lack of desire, or found myself relieved rather than crushed when she stopped returning my calls. This is all clear in retrospect, but it never really occurred to me at the time that there had been a sea change since my needy days of youth.

The last few years have started a new phase. I’m not in denial anymore about my withering interest in dating. Now I waver back and forth between giving up on women completely, and seeing women as something to “dabble” in. When I enter a “give up” phase, I’m struck by two conflicting emotions. On the plus side, there’s an enormous sense of relief, like the burden of the world being lifted from Atlas’s shoulders. But on the negative side, I get this nagging sense that there’s not a whole lot to look forward to in the future anymore. It creates this huge vacuum that I’m not sure how to fill, because I idealized “success with women” practically since puberty, and never found anything else equally compelling to fill that void in my life.

And that’s where I stand now. I’ve lived the MGTOW-type lifestyle for my entire life, though it’s only caught on with me philosophically in recent years. It’s the only way I know how to live. But the internal conflict will remain for the foreseeable future, because when I ask myself “is this all there is?”, I get a yearning for something more.

I became aware of MGTOW just last year. I’m glad there’s a school of thought out there that matches the conclusions that my life experience has led me to. I see the essence of MGTOW as asking the question “what price is too high to pay?” (for women, relationships, etc.). For too many men, from the p-whipped husband to the obsessive PUA to my younger self, the question is never asked, because their answer is “whatever it takes”. I’m glad there are at least a few men out there who know better. Maybe not enough to create a sea change in society, but enough to be a resource to guys who have finally gotten enough of a clue to start asking the question.

[jambearParticipant 282]

Hello brother. I think our purpose in our new lifestyle is to life live the way we choose too. Do what makes you happy and fulfills you, and if you get tired of that go and find something new. The goal it not to change society but to go your own way.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Dybbuk! Thank you for your terrific intro. Late getting back to you. Participation here has really exploded in recent days and we are thrilled to see it. I have enjoyed your comments in response to others.

But the internal conflict will remain for the foreseeable future, because when I ask myself “is this all there is?”, I get a yearning for something more.

I think we all deal with that – or feel it to some degree – but when I do, I also kick and remind myself we have been SOCIALIZED to think “something is missing”. We see this all the time in the form of stupid reminders like “aren’t you afraid of dying alone?” to which I reply…

NO. We ALL die alone. The cult members who drank the Koolaid… They didn’t “die alone”.
But I wouldn’t want to be counted among them thankyouverymuch.

MGTOW have just learned that women / marriage contracts / relationships today FAIL a cost/benefit analysis. So does “getting laid”. It’s also not representative of the highest levels we can achieve, so any attempt at behaving like letting the camel in the tent is some key to happiness and contentment flies in the face of common sense.

Welcome and thank you for joining. Hope to read more from you.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[SwordParticipant 39]

I have no meaningful contribution to leave here but I read your story and I welcome you.

[DybbukParticipant 182]

KeyMaster, jambear, Sword: thanks for the welcome and the comments!

MGTOW have just learned that women / marriage contracts / relationships today FAIL a cost/benefit analysis. So does “getting laid”. It’s also not representative of the highest levels we can achieve, so any attempt at behaving like letting the camel in the tent is some key to happiness and contentment flies in the face of common sense.

I’m not so sure about that. The problem with the cost/benefit analysis is that the benefits are so subjective and difficult to quantify. I hold out hope (possibly naive) that there is a “third way”. Surprisingly, I think that women have been a net positive for my life, but not in the way that most guys would understand. I’ve read some psychologists believe that most of the benefit you derive from “getting” something (whether it be possessions, women, fun experiences, etc.) is actually from the anticipation of getting, and not the subsequent “having”. That jives with my lifetime of experience with women. The reality of women has never been much to speak of. But the dreaming, the fantasizing, the hope…it has literally animated my life and for long stretches it was the only thing that got me out of bed in the morning.

That lifelong paradigm is getting a severe test now. Dreaming about future bliss can only animate me as long as I can fool myself into believing that said bliss could actually happen. There comes a point when one’s capacity for self-deception is exhausted. In my case, I have a fantastic ability for perpetual self-deception…I’m the kind of guy who can convince himself that tomorrow I’m going to start being energetic and productive, after taking today to relax…even though I’ve said the same thing the last 800 days in a row.

I don’t know if I can ever give up on women once and for all. My occasional “dabbling” in the dating arena these days may be providing me with the minimal fuel that I need to keep the old flame alive in my dreams, while costing me almost nothing but some time that I probably would have wasted anyway. As far as the danger that women pose…I think I’m relatively immune to the worst of the horror stories that I hear other men tell. I’ve had a vasectomy. I don’t think I’m capable of falling in love. I’m hypersensitive to manipulation and violation of boundaries…such that any hint of clinginess or neediness or desire for commitment on the part of the woman has every cell in my body screaming “GET AWAY!”. So for now I guess the plan is just to stay the course. But I’m sure this forum will be a big help in keeping me from forgetting the lessons I’ve learned.

 

 

 

 

[KeymasterKeymaster]

I’m not so sure about that. The problem with the cost/benefit analysis is that the benefits are so subjective and difficult to quantify.

It’s RISK assessment. Never mind the benefits when the costs are overwhelmingly exorbitant. Who cares about the benefit when the cost can kill you? Of course that’s like saying there is no benefit to air travel because that can kill you too…. but is anyone flying when 50% of planes crash?

….on a WHIM??

…. initiated by the airline???

I’ve read some psychologists believe that most of the benefit you derive from “getting” something (whether it be possessions, women, fun experiences, etc.) is actually from the anticipation of getting, and not the subsequent “having”.

That is a sure thing. Can’t tell you how many times I didn’t have a girl around, I could’t help but feel like “something is missing”)… but when I had one, within 2 weeks or less, I often couldn’t wait for her to leave. When that happens enough times, you learn nothing was really missing in the first place. So you learn to curb the questioning. I wanted a car so badly once, and when I picked it up, I was overcome with severe buyers remorse.

It was then I decided NO girlfriend “status” for her for at least 6-9 months. If she’s not “the girlfriend” there is no messy breakup. A “relationship” doesn’t come from having sex and then waking up the next morning and POOF! you’re in a “relationship” now.

The desire for Sex and mating is based on one thing only, the concept of attraction. The desire for a relationship/marriage/ cohabitation is built on a mile-long list of things that are worked-on and earned OVER TIME. Just the act of working a year of your life to save 2-3 months of after-tax savings so that you may kneel down and ask for permission to love her until death….. fails a cost/benefits analysis. She should be buying HIM a ring for that.

The reality of women has never been much to speak of. But the dreaming, the fantasizing, the hope…it has literally animated my life and for long stretches it was the only thing that got me out of bed in the morning.

We’ve all been socialized to feel that way.

I’m the kind of guy who can convince himself that tomorrow I’m going to start being energetic and productive, after taking today to relax…even though I’ve said the same thing the last 800 days in a row.

Smiles.

We are in total agreement on the rest of it. Especially with regards to hypersensitivity to manipulations. Happy you feel that way about the forum. I hope so too.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[K9Participant 0]

Man, I can really relate to your story Dybbuk.

[RayBandakuParticipant 888]

“The goal it not to change society but to go your own way.”  That sum’s it all for me.  Thanks you are for sharing, it helps me get clarity.  Ray Bandaku

[DukeParticipant 6]

Bro, the guys that got all the ass in my high school are hit right now, well most of them. I got friends who are yolked to the angry violent beasts they “doinked” in high school, and they know if they ever cross her….. she’s gonna take the kids and run!!! They are trapped!!!

[DukeParticipant 6]

Bro, if youre wandering about what MGTOW means for youre life, get on you tube and search for “Sandman”, he’s got a variety of topics.

[Author]

Posts