Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Masculinity = INDEPENDENCE
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NotMyProblem 3 years, 5 months ago.
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I’ve had this thought going through my head for the last 6-12 months, and I feel it has finally crystallized to the point where I can describe it accurately.
If one were to describe MASCULINITY in one word and one word alone- That word would be INDEPENDENCE.
I’ve been focused in on what I really want out of my life… I’ve boiled it down over and over again, distilling the essence of what I TRULY want, avoiding the taint of societal expectations and cultural programming.
One conclusion I’ve come to is that I don’t want kids. For a time I thought that’s what I wanted, for whatever reason.
The more I reflect and examine my thoughts, the more I realize I’ve been looking for a reason NOT to have them all along. In some way MGTOW helped me find that reason – those reasons. There are many as you all know.
I’ve placed my mind’s eye into the position of a wealthy man in the most ideal of situations – Lots of money to p~~~ away, just laws and full custody rights- and even in the best of scenarios I still find myself questioning the value of having children.
The more I observe my thoughts, the more I realize it’s all just cultural programming and social expectation. Indeed that seems to be the path to happiness for most- or perhaps it’s just the path of least resistance?
Watching babies turn into children – watching children turn into young adults – watching young adults turn into full adults… It does nothing for me. It sounds expensive and exhausting…
I feel no particular need to teach a son everything I know. I feel no particular need to leave a legacy.
At the end of the day, I’m pretty sure we’re all just apes banging rocks together. I doubt there is any great meaning to life, and I’m content with that.
With females, the same thoughts occur as they are simply a different form of child. Even in the best of times – the perfect patriarchal ideal- I still see no benefit to having one around.
Well at least not for more then 20m… and certainly not the same one each time… I’ve had my share of relationships, and I know without a doubt that I’m just not trying to f~~~ the same hole for more then 3 months.
The novelty always wears off and love does not exist- only convenience does.
What it all boils down to- is a fear of being alone- a fear of the great unknown and the fear that no one will have my back when times get tough.
I have to admit to myself that this fear still exists- although I’m actively extinguishing it. I know the harsh reality is that a female will never have my back in life anyways. We all know how female nature works – they abandon ship the second the going gets tough.
The logical conclusion is that whether or not I have a female or a family around- I’m still the Man and I’m still on my own regardless. The Man is the rock that the female and the family leans upon.
It’s not in my masculine nature to be the one that leans. Dependence on others is a purely feminine behavior. I am the Rock. Steady, Strong, Independent.
The truth is that a deep part of me WANTS to be alone. I want to be free to compete and to conquer. I want to be free to expand my mind, to expand my knowledge, and to continually improve upon myself.
The truth is that deep down I want the freedom to be SELFISH. I want the freedom to expel everything from my life that doesn’t serve me.
The first step I took when GMOW is to purge the friendships that only went one way. Then I purged the concept of relationships. Next up is purging family obligations that do nothing but make me miserable.
Although I’ve purged relationships, and many of you have heard me talking about being celibate, I think celibacy may be taking things too far.
Celibacy and monk-mode is simply my natural default state, just as sobriety is. Just because alcohol in excess is bad doesn’t mean a gin and tonic at the end of the day is so horrible.
The truth is- I like a gin and tonic now and then. I like to lay on the grass, watch the clouds and vape hash oil. Once every year or 2, I like to eat a big bag of magic mushrooms and meditate all day. And I like to f~~~…
Booze, hash, sex are the simply pleasures of life- To be enjoyed in moderation. Too much of any one is not healthy. Avoiding them altogether is probably overkill.
If I find myself overdoing it with any of those vices, I will simply purge it from my life for as long as it takes to remind myself that I do not NEED any of them.
Sobriety and Celibacy is simply my default state.
Pussy is enjoyable if the various risks are mitigated. To completely deny it altogether is to deny myself one of life’s greatest pleasures.
So maybe I’ll go out and get my dick sucked in a few weeks. For now I still have some more to sort out in my mind, and I’m finding the alone time highly refreshing.
Remember guys: All you really want is the meathole. Think long and hard about it.
You don’t want to be stuck holding the bag in old age. You don’t want kids and the headaches that come with them.
Just be smart- No babies, No STDs, No time-poverty. Don’t let them slow you down too much.
Like Stealthy says- oil change dating… Once it’s time to change the oil in your car, it’s time to purge. I do Uber now so maybe 3 months is even too long. Short-term rentals may be the best option.
Don’t feel guilty about it – They truly are just whores looking for a meal ticket. Nothing more. Nothing less.
And don’t be afraid of independence, or being alone. No one will help you either way. No one gives a f~~~ about you. And for that reason there is no compelling reason to give a f~~~ about anyone or anything.
Embrace your independence. Do whatever you have to do to be independent. Save your money and keep a diversified portfolio with multiple asset classes. Tell no one. Trust no one. Stealth Wealth.
—–
The older you get the more you just want to be left alone in your garden.
That’s what life’s all about.
Not my property... Not my problem
Preach, brother!
"One of the best things internet exposed is just how insane women are." - Freeman_K
Great perspective, thanks!
great post
Never lose sight of what brought you here.
Anonymous6
Masculinity=Independence from bulls~~~ thrown by govt and women..Act according to your own will and follow your passions
I’ve tried being the good guy that helps people out. Every time I got taken advantage of.
I’ve helped people out when they were down and out. Each time they followed up by taking advantage of me.
I’ve picked up guys that fell and they just dragged me down into their mess.
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It’s unfortunate because I like the feeling of helping people. I think all Men do. It’s the Fatherly instinct in us.
I feel like most of the MGTOW Men here are trying to take responsibility for their own lives, or they already have. I wouldn’t mind helping out one of you guys or offering advice…
Just be careful who you help, is all I’m saying. 95% of people out there will take advantage of you in a heartbeat.
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Pure selfishness is probably too much.
In Buddhism there is something called “The Middle Way”… It’s the idea that being too far on one end of the spectrum is not good. Being too selfish makes you an asshole. And being too kind makes you a push over.
The experiences I’ve had with weak mangina recently have probably sent me too far into the selfish asshole camp. Perhaps in a future post I will elaborate…
Thanks for reminding me that there is still room for generosity and giving. Hopefully one day I’ll be very well off and I’ll have the opportunity to do some significant good things for the world.
——
To sum it up- People either tend to be Assholes or they tend to be Pussys. Find the Middle Way.
Not my property... Not my problem
I recently helped out a mangina acquantance/”friend” of mine whom I’ve known for 5-6 years.
I helped him out while he was down and out. He then turned around and stabbed me directly in the back.
He used deceit in an attempt to steal from me. Decided I was his new “daddy”… He came to expect things and when he didn’t get them he pulled a real backhanded s~~~ty move on me.
I’m not going to go into detail but I’m still sore about it. Still paying for it.
The worst part is it’s not the first time I’ve been the victim of being too nice and being taken advantage of.
Be careful who you help out…
Not my property... Not my problem
Anonymous54Sovereign sounds like Stealthy,Stealhty sounds Like Key.
Anonymous0I’ve had this thought going through my head for the last 6-12 months, and I feel it has finally crystallized to the point where I can describe it accurately.
If one were to describe MASCULINITY in one word and one word alone- That word would be INDEPENDENCE.
[and]
The truth is that deep down I want the freedom to be SELFISH. I want the freedom to expel everything from my life that doesn’t serve me.
I’m going to put my own spin on this. First, the relation between Masculinity and Autonomy/Independence.
Tl;dr version:
1) Femininity = Emotions = Empathy = Community.
2) Masculinity = Logic = Intellect = Autonomy.To spell it out in more detail:
The tl;dr version should be pretty self-explanatory. I’m not putting down empathy and community by putting them in the Feminine category. A functioning society needs both Feminine and Masculine traits.
Also, men can be empathetic and in touch with their emotions and enjoy community. Just as some women can be logical and intellectual and autonomous.
But when push comes to shove, in a crisis or emergency situation, real men are expected to tamp down their emotions and pull on their big-boy logical pants. They are expected to keep a cool head and use intellect to find a solution.
And of course logic and intellect result in autonomy insofar as they may lead us in diferent directions from where the community would have us go. As men, we are expected to be leaders. Sometimes that means striking out in a new direction.
****************
As for leading a Selfish Life: I see that as a separate argument. Here’s how I see it:
Tl;dr version:
1) Life is meaningless. But that doesn’t mean we can do anything we want.
2) Even when life is meaningless, there are objective guides and constants such as pleasure and pain.
3) So at a minimum we can be guided by philosophies that show us how to maximize pleasure and minimize pain.People have been living with the meaninglessness of life for a long time. Someone once asked Sigmund Freud, “What’s the purpose of life?” In typical fashion, Freud answered a question with a question: “Why should life have a purpose?”
Personally, I love the fact that life is meaningless: I think it’s precisely the pointlessness of life that makes life fun and worth living. If life were to have one single clear and universally-agreed purpose (above and beyond mere reproduction), then we would all have to spend our lives working and straining toward that one goal, like beasts of burden.
But with no clearly-defined purpose, life becomes more like a sandbox-style video game. Have fun with it, explore, travel, try new things. The pointlessness of life takes the pressure off and permits us to take risks and have fun.
Next question: If life is meaningless, then does this mean that reality is insubstantial? Does that mean that society is artificial and arbitrary?
Reality is obviously *real.* If you fall 10 feet onto a slab of concrete or fall down some stairs, you’re going to feel pain. If you take a bite of chocolate or go on a carnival ride, you’re going to feel pleasure. Those things are real.
Furthermore, pleasure and pain are a big deal. Civilization is built on the principle of trade-offs between pleasure and pain. We give up some spontaneity and freedom in order to gain the benefits of modern society and get rid of the pain of living in the wild, but we also give ourselves outlets for pleasure when possible so that life has rewards other than mere avoidance of pain. Freud wrote about this in his book “Civilization and Its Discontents.” In short, society isn’t arbitrary at all; Freud and other thinkers have found society to be a fairly effective way of dealing with something very real: Pleasure and pain.
Same with your position in society. Sure, life is meaningless, but you still have to live. There is still the outside world and its “reality checks.” There is still pleasure and pain. For example, one can say, “Life is meaningless, so I might as well eat candy 24 hours a day.” Life is indeed meaningless, but if you eat candy 24 hours a day eventually you will still have to deal with the “reality check” of weighing 300 pounds and having scurvy and other nutritional deficiencies after a few months of living that way.
The same principle is true when interacting with others in the world around you. Society is all about egos. If your ego is constantly in conflict with the egos of others around you, your ego is going to get beat down. There is a lot of inertia in society, and it’s tiring and inefficient to swim against the current all the time. So you find that balance between satisfying your own ego and putting up with constraints put on you by outside egos.
To sum up: Life is meaningless; but at the same time it’s *real*. Pleasure and pain exist, and broken bones and lacerated flesh hurt like hell. Society is built around trade-offs between pleasure and pain. So if pleasure and pain are real, then there’s a certain legitimacy to the choices that society makes. Same with your individual role in society.
Okay, so where does that leave you?
Well, take the principle of meaninglessness:
You can delve into philosophies dealing with the meaningless of life. For example, existentialism, nihilism, and absurdism. Camus, an absurdist, felt that life itself is meaningless, but *a* life can have meaning. That is, you can still chose to live in a fashion that emphasizes integrity of thought and action. It may not have meaning in the sense of leaving an indelible mark on the universe, but it will give your own life direction and purpose and stave off that feeling of floating adrift.
Or take the pleasure-and-pain principle. Here are three old schools of thought based on that principle:
Hedonism: A school of thought that argues that pleasure is the primary or most important intrinsic good. In very simple terms, a hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain).
Ethical hedonism: The idea that all people have the right to do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible to them, assuming that their actions do not infringe on the equal rights of others. It is also the idea that every person’s pleasure should far surpass their amount of pain.
Epicureanism: Pleasure is the greatest good, but the way to attain such pleasure is to live modestly and to gain knowledge of the workings of the world and the limits of one’s desires. This led one to attain a state of tranquility (ataraxia) and freedom from fear, as well as absence of bodily pain (aponia). The combination of these two states is supposed to constitute happiness in its highest form.
These three ideas are basically philsophical justifications for “selfishness.” If you’re curious, look them up in Wikipedia.
Again, the idea here is that life itself is transitory and meaningless, but it’s still within one’s power to life a life that is enjoyable and pleasurable. And that’s actually a pretty nice way to live, as long as the cost or the effort of obtaining one’s pleasures isn’t horribly high.
Wrapping it up now:
Anyway, the point is that there are actually lots of ways of minimizing the “meaningless” of life and living a fulfilling life. The great minds of humanity have tackled the problem repeatedly and found lots of solutions. In some cases, they even embraced meaninglessness as freeing (such as the example of “life as a sandbox-style video game”). So pick a philosophy and read up on it, whether it’s Camus or Freud or Epicurus of ancient Greece or someone else entirely. There is Positivism, Humanism; more recently, Martin Seligman created Positive Psychology as a way to better the lives of those who aren’t actually ill or disordered but who could use a jump-start to a happier life; it suggests a number of routes to a happier, more fulfilled lifestyle, many involving greater engagement with the world and the people around oneself.
After that, set up your daily schedule so that it reflects the priorities of your chosen philosophy and then live according to it. See if it works for you. And if you feel anxiety, tell yourself, “Lighten up! I’m doing what’s important to me, and I’m making progress on it. There’s nothing else to be done; I just have to stick to my schedule and see what comes out of it.”
Anonymous54@stealthy. Sweet what you and your buddy did for that guy. I have fed many homeless. It gives a you such a joyful feeling. Very cool Man!!
i am a man.
before my race,
before my religion,
before my politics.
.
a man who has grown and learned to not be afraid,
of myself.
.
every experience teaches us,
we grow from dealing with adversity..
until one day we realize,
.
whatever comes down the road,
i can handle it.
.
stand tall and be humble.
speak less and listen more.
.
count the blessings and not the troubles..
.
be proud of who you are .
.
throw away the ideas of what a man should be,
discover what you CAN be.
.
embrace the unknown.As always some fantastic thoughts here guys,I get lots of guidance and see parallels in many views…
Thanks again guys.
Great stuff twostep. Epicureanism sounds interesting- will have to read more into it.
Didn’t mean to sound like life is meaningless. Just that procreation may not offer any meaning.
I suppose we all have to find a way to give our life meaning. That’s part of the fun.
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Excellent post Hitman… That sums things up nicely
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Interesting article on the duality of masculinity StealthMan. It certainly seems society is pushing men more towards the dark side, which may not be a bad thing in itself.
Historically everything goes in cycles. It’s quite possible that the reason we’re in this mess is because the previous generations were too focused on being heroic and disposable. Now we’re overcorrecting.
There’s a place for both the dark and the light side. As I stated previously- the secret is to find the “middle way”
Not my property... Not my problem
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