MADE IN THE USA

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

So, I’ve got a question, more aimed at the older MGTOWs out there. My dad, and older men seem to really like things made in the USA. And, I’m thinking it has to do with their time, and how things were back in their day. Back in the 1950s, America was the best. We had the most cars, most jobs, huge economy, ect. And I get why it’s important to keep jobs in the US so we have jobs for everyone, I get that. Why do guys assume that if it’s made in the US, that it excuses a whole slew of things?

I’ll put it like this: I want a very good product, not really the cheapest (CHINA), but I want a good product. Take for instance: Glock pistols. They’ve got a plant in the US, but it is a famously reliable gunmaker. Made in Austria. If that’s more reliable than a gun made in the US, I want that! America can compete, competition is good for the consumer.

Or a Toyota Prius. I know it’s got a stigma with it, but for f~~~s sake, it gets great gas mileage. And then I see commercials for Chevy’s and Fords talking about American innovation, but they still get s~~~ty gas mileage. I guess innovation means more cup holders.

Back then, people said America was great because we were.

We make the best stuff=We are the best

We weren’t the best because we were America, anywhere that has good stuff is great. Am I missing something? I think that’s about on point with my assumptions, but I’d really like to hear some thoughts from the older fellas. I’m young, so maybe it’s just a generational thing.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[MemberParticipant 323]

I think there is a certain amount of the population that feels “Made in the USA” makes it a better product ( like the old days ). However there are just as many or more who buy things based on anything but “Made in the USA” labels.

When you hear older people talk about “Made in the USA” being better it is for several reasons…nostalgia for seemingly better times from years past, pride in what the country used to mean to its citizens (people didn’t burn USA flags to protest some liberal cause for instance), and a sense of loss for what our country once was. I bet for every person you hear talk about “Made in the USA” at least 10 more are driving Toyota cars and buying Chinese clothes as Wal Mart.

When you are old you will remember many things from our current time and think nostalgic thoughts about them (many of these thoughts are blind to the reality of what it was really like). I think everyone does it.

[chirParticipant]

You have to look carefully. Small businesses in the US depend on quality to justify the price. The price is mostly due to the cost of making anything in the US.
Cars are a non-issue. They are all about the same “lack” of quality. Cars are not designed to last. Planned obsolescence. Its the industry standard for the last 25 to 30 years. To find good American iron you need to look at cars and trucks from the 50’s and 40’s.
I have a large number of wood working hand tools which were given to my by my father and he got them from his father. I have hammers and planes dated back to 1940. These tools will last forever because they were designed to last.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[Anonymous 11]

I’m old enough to remember when American made things were built very well. The end began with the 1970s era cars and planned obsolescence. Then in the 80s the first waves of off shoring began.

I have a pair of American made New Balance shoes that after 6 years have finally worn themselves out now. Asian made ones at 2/3 the price last me hardly a year.

I do have a few Chinese made items that are very well made. I think it depends on how well the outsourcing company enforces QC. Usually, bean counters are in charge so there’s your answer.

I will not use Chinese made tools or dinnerware. I’m relegated to shopping second hand stores for these items.

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

chir wrote:

You have to look carefully. Small businesses in the US depend on quality to justify the price. The price is mostly due to the cost of making anything in the US.
Cars are a non-issue. They are all about the same “lack” of quality. Cars are not designed to last. Planned obsolescence. Its the industry standard for the last 25 to 30 years. To find good American iron you need to look at cars and trucks from the 50’s and 40’s.
I have a large number of wood working hand tools which were given to my by my father and he got them from his father. I have hammers and planes dated back to 1940. These tools will last forever because they were designed to last.

I hear you on that, especially the designed obsolescence thing. Although with that, I’ve heard compelling arguments from both sides about how planned obsolescence was because they saw the way the world was going, then I’ve heard it was vice versa and the planned obsolescence forced us into this super consumerist attitude that we have today, where people buy a new phone for 600 bucks that seems to have only slight improvements, ones that could be done with an upgrade. Either way, it drives the economy, so whatever I guess.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[TaxGuyParticipant]

I think many of the Made in the USA people are middle class factory workers that want to buy products made by middle class factory workers. Support your neighbor’s job.

Manufacturing jobs were the life blood of the middle class. It’s going to be hard to get into a war with China and then turn around and ask them to sell us guns. We don’t make anything anymore, at least not like we used to.

I grew up in a lumber town and watched them close down every lumber mill. Those people just wanted an honest days pay for an honest days work. That part of America is quickly dying away. We had a much more resilient economy then. Now we wipe our asses with paper from trees in Canada while our forests burn down every summer because there is no one in the woods to keep up the roads and help put out the fires.

Some of it is nostalgia and some is because they see the life blood of our way of living dying off.

Order the good wine

[RoyDalParticipant]

It is a mistake to shop for the lowest price, unless it is a throwaway item. I prefer the approach of buy quality and make it last. Trouble is, quality is being replaced by cheap plastic crap on all fronts.

By the way, do not shop for tools or major appliances at Wally-World [name changed to prevent lawsuit]. The cheap plastic crap they sell will last about a week past the warranty expiration date. If it is something you need to last, then go upmarket. It will pay off in the long run.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[RusskyParticipant 13503]

My strategy with shopping works like this – I go to the cheapest store and shop for top shelf items there.
People who go to best stores and shop for cheapest items there – lose on cost and quality

proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome

[Anonymous 42]

Silverstone the Second wrote:

And then I see commercials for Chevy’s and Fords talking about American innovation, but they still get s~~~ty gas mileage. I guess innovation means more cup holders.

C-Pig’s right, the 70’s with all the regulations and switching to smaller cars killed the auto industry here, remember the Chevrolet Vega? Americas Aluminum engine? The one that came with a warning on the visor? The warning that said NOT to allow the engine to run idling for more than 6 or 10 minutes, otherwise engine damage will result (warped head).
Government bloating, combined with union and executive plunder, has decimated the ability for America to manufacture anything worthwhile, or that can compete in the free market system.
Personally I WILL NEVER BUY AN AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE OR TRUCK EVER AGAIN! I HAVE A REAL HARD TIME KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY F~~~ING MYSELF FOR THE NATIONAL HIVE’S GOOD! I no longer have a worthy country, I’m on my own!!!

[narwhalParticipant]

I think it’s important to look beyond the end product itself when evaluating where you’re going to spend your dollar. If you buy a product made it China, you are supporting unsafe working conditions for poorly paid workers, etc etc. If you buy from Walmart, you supporting the practice of paying employees below poverty level and letting the government subsidize their income. There are unions in play in the US, while there is likely none elsewhere. For services, are the workers performing the service illegal aliens?

It isn’t about being a social justice warrior, to me anyway. By buying cheap foreign products are you increasing US unemployment, causing politicians to vote for more handouts? Getting the cheapest guy to mow your law encourages more illegal aliens to cross the border…more government handouts. To me these are all hidden costs of the product, that will come back around eventually. I consider these factors for selfish reasons.

I’m not suggesting that quality and price aren’t important, or that I don’t buy products manufactured in China. I certainly do. I do avoid Walmart and will happily pay a higher price elsewhere.

Unfortunately, we live in a complicated world where the process of getting raw materials to a finish product is often difficult (sometimes intentionally so) for a consumer to determine and make an honest judgment. I imagine most people don’t even really want to think about it (Ask any woman where her diamonds came from)

Ok. Then do it.

[RennieParticipant]

That’s the chinaman business tactic. Sell you something so cheap, that it breaks in no time, so they can then sell you another one and so on.

You’ll end up spending more than you would of just buying the quality product in the first place.

[Anonymous 11]

@Tower:

It’s funny how 1974 comes up, yet again, as that’s when those government edicts took effect. The Vega, Mustang II were hatched and every US car made went to s~~~. Big block V8s were putting out a paltry 200HP some even less. I drove across the country in the hatch back of a new 1974 Vega as a young boy. The AC crapped out in the middle of Southern Arizona. It was cooler with the windows rolled up. I f~~~ing hate Vegas as much as Mustang IIs.

I’m worried about today’s new American cars having similar issues. It took many years for the engineers to get American cars back to some semblance of reliability and performance, The manufacturers are really stretching to meet the new edicts for fuel economy. Start/stop engines and turbochargers are recipes for serious mechanical issues down the road. $35,000 dollar average cars financed for 8 years are insane in and of themselves.

It’s like soccer moms have seized control. Bubble wrap is required for everyone.

I love my 1988 car. No airbags, no nanny electronics, and I can fix it myself. My friend flips 1980/70s era Mercedes Benzs. Those cars are built really well and age incredibly well unlike a woman.. I’m letting him store a cherry 380SL on my property after his HOA got their panties in a wad.

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Made in the USA is great — as long as it wasn’t made on a Monday or a Friday.

Seriously, I’m 45, and manufacturing comprised about 25% of employment in 1970 when I was born; now it’s around 8%. While foreign competition has resulted in cheaper products, it’s also meant fewer high-paying jobs for unskilled labor, and a huge shift to service sector jobs.

Cars? On the most important metric, they’re much BETTER today than in the 1970’s. Mileage now: 33 mph average. Mileage then: 15 mph average. http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-sheets/2011/04/20/driving-to-545-mpg-the-history-of-fuel-economy — no discuss is complete without noting that. And this is even WITH the pollution controls.

People are keeping cars longer — average over 11 years — vs much shorter in the 1970’s. You can argue some of that is due to the s~~~ty economy, but some is also due to reliability improvements in my opinion. business.time.com/2012/03/20/what-you-only-have-100k-miles-on-your-car-thats-nothing/ — of course, some of that depends on which brand…

As for me, I’ve had a Dodge and two Saturns, I plan on getting at LEAST 10 years out of a car. Nothing beats that fresh car smell for me, EXCEPT for that paid off car smell!

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Made in the USA is great — as long as it wasn’t made on a Monday or a Friday.

Seriously, I’m 45, and manufacturing comprised about 25% of employment in 1970 when I was born; now it’s around 8%. While foreign competition has resulted in cheaper products, it’s also meant fewer high-paying jobs for unskilled labor, and a huge shift to service sector jobs.

Cars? On the most important metric, they’re much BETTER today than in the 1970’s. Mileage now: 33 mph average. Mileage then: 15 mph average. http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-sheets/2011/04/20/driving-to-545-mpg-the-history-of-fuel-economy — no discuss is complete without noting that. And this is even WITH the pollution controls.

People are keeping cars longer — average over 11 years — vs much shorter in the 1970’s. You can argue some of that is due to the s~~~ty economy, but some is also due to reliability improvements in my opinion. http://business.time.com/2012/03/20/what-you-only-have-100k-miles-on-your-car-thats-nothing/ — of course, some of that depends on which brand…

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