Lost,but still found.

[Writing Desk RavenParticipant 460]

I started going my own way before I was old enough to drink — well before I was old enough to realize the journey I was actually taking.

She was pretty, seemed into me, and I genuinely enjoyed being around her. I enjoyed who I was when I was around her. So much so that I asked her to marry me; she said yes, we celebrated, spent the holidays together, made plans, and when the new year came I rushed to spend it with her. All but ran up to her apartment, opened the door, and saw that she was… gone.

Gone gone.

Not a single item of furniture.
No calls.
No texts.
No fight.
No “Dear John” letter.

Her own parents were stunned. Her friends played stupid.

She reached out to me months later, gave me something akin to an apology. I told her I’d slept with one of her friends (which I had) and somehow our conversation ended with me apologizing for jumping into bed with her disloyal skank of a friend, instead of discussing why there was an “ex” in front of “fiance” in the first place.

So, I slept with her friend again; you know, to clear my head. Learned, in the process, there wasn’t even another guy involved: my fiancee had simply wanted to move across the country more than she wanted to be with me, had her “I’m about to settle down” freak out, and forgot to talk to me about it.

I took off across the country, like she had, just headed for different states and into the arms of different women. In no particular order, there was the good little Catholic girl (read: absolute slut), the drug addict, the surfer, the druggie who committed herself to an institution (possibly the only girlfriend I’ve had I still respect), the bipolar chick, the cheater, the other cheater, the other other cheater, the one who was cheating with me on her boyfriend and I didn’t realize it until we inadvertently met (fun day, justice was well-served), the one who might have been a unicorn (and wasn’t), the one who thought she was a unicorn (and definitely wasn’t), and the hippie.

Almost got married again. Sabotaged at least half of those relationships, right when the signs of “I want to talk about settling down” started to crop up.

Gave it one final shot last year, when I met a woman who really was everything she purported to be. Nerdy, passionate, successful, sharp. I was enthralled… which is why I didn’t have the kids conversation until we’d been together a few months. I was 31 and she was 34 so — as you can imagine — it went from 0 to 60 nuclear f~~~ing bombs in a matter of seconds.

Ever seen those massive arrays of dominoes? The ones that form a picture when all the tiles are laid flat? They all start with just this small, single flick of the finger against an innocuous little piece of ivory.

“I’m having kids in the next two years, regardless of my relationship status.”

*flick*

18 years. 18 years since my first girlfriend, since I first knew what a kiss was, what a boob felt like, what I thought was supposed to be a, if not the, driving factor of manhood for me. I did the math: if I’d placed just one domino for every hour of 18 years, I’d have an array of 157,680 dominoes all precariously stood upright, waiting for the inevitable moment one of them hit another. And this woman made the tip, just knocked the whole goddamn thing down, and I had the the most obvious of choices to make:

Bend and pick up the pieces?

Or strike a match and watch it all burn?

I decided on using thermite instead of an accelerant.

It ended as badly as you’d think; she accused me of being even worse than her ex-husband (who cheated on her… with a trannie), explained how despicable I was for not wanting children, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

So I sort of drifted. I’m still sort of drifting. I discovered the anti-SJW movement shortly after, which led me directly to MGTOW, of which all roads eventually pointed to here. I shut down my dating profiles, quit Facebook, told some fairweather friends to pound sand, dove into work, upgraded my PC rig, worked on my car, worked on myself. I start a new and better job in just a couple weeks.

But I also grappled — still grapple, arguably — with some scars, cleaned up some old wounds, asked myself the sort of challenging and uncomfortable questions that make it tough to meet your own eyes in the mirror, let a lot of anger and indignation burn through all of it.

I don’t feel empty and I don’t feel at peace, but I feel closer to it. I can see the dawn breaking and I feel like I’ve found not just who I am, but who I want to be and even where I want to be.

But I have no idea where to go from here.

There’s no princess to pluck out of the castle (though no shortage of dragons to fight off), no kids to struggle for, no family who needs me to provide, no “special girl” to be reaching for on some faraway, ephemeral horizon. I feel utterly lost without it. And while it’s great in the sense that I didn’t need a gruesome divorce with a battleaxe of an ex to see the light, I’m still at a loss of what to do and where to go from here. 3 decades and change now, all spent with this goal just over the horizon for me to aim for and… well, I want to live for something. I just don’t know what anymore.

I’ll end my rambling here, but I wanted to reach out to my brothers in spirit I never knew I had until it was nearly too late, if only to admit to someone that I feel… displaced… and I don’t have the pride or shame left to cop to it.

I don’t feel hopeless and I know my answers will come to me in time. It’s just that my local library is fresh out of copies of “Society: What To Do After You Tell It To F~~~ Off”, so if anyone’s got some cliff notes or wrote a different thesis on it, I’m all ears.

"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis

[bladeParticipant]

Welcome aboard bro . Once you are stead fast to the road here you won’t leave it

THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

Welcome aboard the reality train! Sounds like you’ve been there before. Glad you’re with us!

[Anonymous 0]

Writing Desk Raven wrote:

[…]I’ll end my rambling here, but I wanted to reach out to my brothers in spirit I never knew I had until it was nearly too late, if only to admit to someone that I feel… displaced… and I don’t have the pride or shame left to cop to it.

I don’t feel hopeless and I know my answers will come to me in time. It’s just that my local library is fresh out of copies of “Society: What To Do After You Tell It To F~~~ Off”, so if anyone’s got some cliff notes or wrote a different thesis on it, I’m all ears.

Here’s an old post that I’ve posted before. Probably more than you wanted to know. But since you asked, I’ll throw it out there.

*******************
Basically it comes down to a couple simple choices. If you’re religious, then just follow whatever your religion or religious leaders tell you to do. Your religion will provide your life with meaning.

On the other hand, if you’re *not* religious: What happens when you throw out religion, and you’re left with a life that is basically meaningless? What is a gal or a guy supposed to do (and how am they supposed to live) in a non-religious, meaningless world?

That’s usually the question that’s asked in such situations. And it seems to be the question you’re asking, as best I can tell.

Anyway, I’m a big fan of the non-religious, meaningless life. Big fan. Wouldn’t have it any other way. In fact, if there were any meaning to life, life would then suck for me.

People have been living with the meaninglessness of life for a long time. Someone once asked Sigmund Freud, “What’s the purpose of life?” In typical fashion, Freud answered a question with a question: “Why should life have a purpose?”

Personally, I love the fact that life is meaningless: I think it’s precisely the pointlessness of life that makes life fun and worth living. If life were to have one single clear and universally-agreed purpose (above and beyond mere reproduction), then we would all have to spend our lives working and straining toward that one goal, like beasts of burden.

But with no clearly-defined purpose, life becomes more like a sandbox-style video game. Have fun with it, explore, travel, try new things. The pointlessness of life takes the pressure off and permits us to take risks and have fun.

Anyway, most people probably find three ways to add meaning to their life in a meaningless universe:

1) Building a family: Marrying, having kids, having grandkids
2) Building a legacy: Creating a company, creating an empire, working on green/ecological issues, creating a foundation or charity, etc.
3) Hedonism: Try out everything, travel lots of places, live life to the fullest.

But those aren’t the only choices; they are just the most popular ones. In fact, there are actually lots of ways of minimizing the “meaningless” of life and living a fulfilling life.

If you want to pursue “a higher value” outside yourself but you’re not religious, then you can try something like existentialism, nihilism, or absurdism. For example Camus, an absurdist, felt that life itself is meaningless, but *a* life can have meaning. Camus felt that you can choose to live in a fashion that emphasizes integrity of thought and action. It may not have meaning in the sense of leaving an indelible mark on the universe, but it will give your own life direction and purpose and stave off that feeling of floating adrift.

The great minds of humanity have tackled the problem repeatedly and found lots of solutions. So pick a philosophy and read up on it, whether it’s Camus or Freud or Epicurus of ancient Greece or someone else entirely. There is Positivism, Humanism; more recently, Martin Seligman created Positive Psychology as a way to better the lives of those who aren’t actually ill or disordered but who could use a jump-start to a happier life; it suggests a number of routes to a happier, more fulfilled lifestyle, many involving greater engagement with the world and the people around oneself.

After that, set up your daily schedule so that it reflects the priorities of your chosen philosophy and then live according to it. See if it works for you. And if you feel anxiety, tell yourself, “Lighten up! I’m doing what’s important to me, and I’m making progress on it. There’s nothing else to be done; I just have to stick to my schedule and see what comes out of it.”

Again, the idea here is that life itself is transitory and meaningless, but it’s still within one’s power to life a life that is enjoyable and pleasurable. And that’s actually a pretty nice way to live.

**********************
I’ll stop here. If you’re curious, I could tell you what choices I’ve made for myself and why I made those choices. (I basically chose Hedonism/Epicureanism.)

But for now I’ll just recommend a book: “Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life” by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. It’s a best-seller currently on the market. It’s based on a class taught at Stanford University in California for college kids trying to figure out what to do with their lives. But it can be used at any phase in life. I’ve been reading it, and it’s quite inventive in its approach.

Check out the reviews at Amazon.com or Borders.com

[<<>>Participant 435]

Welcome Home

“Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in… The danger is that of coming to love the prison.” ~ C.S. Lewis

^^^ <Mere Christianity>?

[Writing Desk RavenParticipant 460]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. Rest assured, I’m well and good through the looking glass now — the very idea of going back lies on the farthest side of the absurd and I’ve no interest in entertaining it.

@TwoStep: Thank you for the post, truly.

It’s actually comforting to hear it framed like that: I agree that there’s wisdom in seeing meaninglessness or, at the very least, entertaining that life could be or is without purpose. Granted, I’m already inclined to the nonsensical and illogical simply for their very sake, so it makes so much sense that it doesn’t (or the other way ’round) to think that life can be both meaningless and purposeful.

I made a note for your book recommendation and, while I’m more a practitioner of Stoicism in actuality, I appreciate any mind that prizes intellectual pleasure.

@vostoast: Out of his collected letters, I believe. The original passage is discussing the danger of masturbation — not as much the act itself, as the selfishness driving it — and that line has long stood out to me. For sake of context, the entire passage is:

“For me the real evil of masturbation would be that it takes an appetite which, in lawful use, leads the individual out of himself to complete (and correct) his own personality in that of another (and finally in children and even grandchildren) and turns it back; sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides.

“And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman.

“For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no woman can rival.

“Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover; no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity.

“In the end, they become merely the medium through which he increasingly adores himself. . . . After all, almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in. Masturbation is to be avoided as all things are to be avoided which retard this process. The danger is that of coming to love the prison.”

That said, I don’t care if you jerk off, it’s simply a statement that’s fascinated me when it comes to inner reflection and inadvertently — or maybe purposefully? — speaks to many of the dangers that tend to lead many men into ruinous ends with women (i.e. warping a perfectly healthy desire for sake of blind want of that “elusive” sexual carrot on a stick).

"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis

[Anonymous 0]

Writing Desk Raven wrote:

@twostep: Thank you for the post, truly.

It’s actually comforting to hear it framed like that: I agree that there’s wisdom in seeing meaninglessness or, at the very least, entertaining that life could be or is without purpose. Granted, I’m already inclined to the nonsensical and illogical simply for their very sake, so it makes so much sense that it doesn’t (or the other way ’round) to think that life can be both meaningless and purposeful.

I made a note for your book recommendation and, while I’m more a practitioner of Stoicism in actuality, I appreciate any mind that prizes intellectual pleasure.

Sounds good. Just wanted to add:

If you’re basically satisfied with your life and just need to get yourself out of a rut, you can always read a couple old-but-good classics.

“Awaken the Giant Within,” by Tony Robbins
“The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People,” by Stephen R. Covey

Anyway, welcome! Great intro post!

[<<>>Participant 435]

Writing Desk Raven wrote:

That said, I don’t care if you jerk off, it’s simply a statement that’s fascinated me when it comes to inner reflection and inadvertently — or maybe purposefully? — speaks to many of the dangers that tend to lead many men into ruinous ends with women (i.e. warping a perfectly healthy desire for sake of blind want of that “elusive” sexual carrot on a stick).

I hear that, I am a ghosting Monk so try not to clean my pipes too often plus you know I do not want to be robbed of my essence but to each his own way of course. v v v strictly for the LULZ

[Sparticus66Participant 508]

That’s a wonderful introduction. You have a gift for writing so that’s one thing you can do to help others.
One way I try to cope is to acknowledge how sick our society is. I’m quite into primal living. If you get out into the great outdoors it brings a sense of perspective. Here in England I often visit prehistoric sites. Old burial sites for communities that lived off the land. They are now gone. Modern society thinks its forever but it too will be gone. It’s been a year of many famous and wealthy people dying. We all get to choose how we spend our time. Those of us that were in marriage hell realised our time was ours, and got out.
You will do very well, I’m sure of it. You are already feeling some of the peace that can be yours. Best wishes

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

Welcome Writing Desk Raven. Glad to have you aboard.

That piece on masturbation is more shaming and guilt induction. Always be aware of that from women, employers, religion, etc.

Another book that I have read and reread for decades that has some interesting insights and that I have recommended before is:

Marguerite and Willard Beecher
Beyond Success and Failure: Ways to Self-Reliance and Maturity.

Amazon.com has used copies. You might have to wait for the prices to get cheaper on Amazon, as the book is out of print and people tend to keep copies once they have the book. Read the reviews.

The Beechers had two other books that also offer some interesting insights on human behavior: The Sin of Obedience and The Mark of Cain. Though the titles imply they are religious, they are not. They use religious examples or words to show that human behavior has not changed since or before Biblical times.

After you read the first book, you may begin to understand how infantile and immature the average female behavior has become. They tend to be takers, rather than givers, consumers, rather than producers.

[Freeman_KParticipant 3524]

Writing Desk Raven wrote:

well, I want to live for something. I just don’t know what anymore.

Hello, welcome, I was in very similar situation after my unicorn chase years officially ended.

What about living for yourself for a change ? Not linking your happines to exernal factors over which you have no control like latest quirk of random female.

To each his own but i could live alone for much longer than 100 years, if healthy of course. Building, Travelling, sports, exploration, adventures, learning difficult s~~~, learning new langages, learning musical instruments, void like internet, books, coding, etc. List is endless.

The choices we make, not the chances we take, determine our destiny

[Writing Desk RavenParticipant 460]

@TwoStep: More books for the pile. Thanks, again.

@VOS-GOS: That’s a good bit with Strangelove and I’m in agreement with you — I think there’s practical merit in “keeping in your essence”. Or, at the least, I notice I tend to stay much more driven and focused when I stop cleaning the pipes. Could be entirely psychosomatic, but wouldn’t that be the entire point of it, anyway?

@sparticus66: Thank you, brother. While I’m among those who quite enjoy modern society, I’ve already got plans in motion to tackle a few miles of the Appalachian Trail once winter starts to fade. I agree that standing in wilds where most men do not is clarifying, to say the least, and I’m all the more resolved to take advantage of it now.

@badger: I’ll do some digging on the Beechers. I also live in a city with a powerful hipster culture and demographic; while this tends to manifest in me wanting to beat a man-bunned metrosexual to death with his fixed gear bicycle’s kickstand, it also means there’s a healthy presence of used book stores, so I can at least tap that as a resource.

As for the Lewis quote, I know it seems prevaricating, but “to each his own”.

It’s not something I see as guilt or shame-inducing, but that’s like as much to do with my agreeing with the sentiment that a man should challenge himself with acts of sacrifice or selflessness (for example, this is one of the reasons why I consistently lift weights) but, in doing so, should not be trapping himself in fantasies of women or admiration (that I continue to go for myself and not to impress yet another girl snapping selfies in the mirror).

Then again, as I mentioned to VOS-GOS, I also take to heart the merits of Eastern philosophy that discuss jing or some other variation of the “male essence” and see the advantages of greater drive and focus when I starve myself of the act; even before I really began to face the truth revealed by the red pill, I would go through “Monk mode” cycles between relationships and I want to reclaim some of that — it’s a good state of me, I believe.

@freeman_k: I can see that absolutely working in the short term for me, but not the long term. I still see merit in transcendent purpose (and who’s to say that won’t change, either), but there’s undeniable wisdom in spending more time looking inward and living for that person — certainly for now, when I’m realizing how uncertain I am who that person really is.

Thanks again, to all of you. I’m not sure if it’s a shame or a blessing that you’ve proven better friendship and camaraderie in a matter of forum posts than I’ve seen in person for quite a number of years (seems I need new friends, at the least), but thank you.

"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis

[Anonymous 0]

Welcome home, Raven
I skipped ahead without reading what the others have posted so there may be some overlap.
Seems like you have reached a turning point and you know you are missing something but don’t know what it is. Perhaps you just need to reset your goals. Easier said than done, I know!

Start with some distraction free introspection even if you have to hide out to do it. Ask yourself these questions:

Who am I now?
What do I want, now?

Meaning that you knew who you were and what you wanted when you were younger but now it is different.

Reset your goals!
Define yourself, again!
Move forward.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Just read you in another thread and forgot my manners.
Wishing you a big welcome to the forums.

Thank you for the effort you made to introduce yourself.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[Writing Desk RavenParticipant 460]

@M52: The “distraction free” part is undoubtedly my biggest struggle right now. Thanks for the encouragement and I’ll keep asking myself those questions every day until something rises to answer them.

@keymaster: Thank you, it’s good to be here in proper name and spirit (as opposed to lurking anonymously).

"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis

[Man SoloParticipant 111]

Great introduction Writing Desk Raven, one of the best. Welcome to brotherhood. You have a great talent for writing, become an author! There you go, I`ve just sorted out the rest of your life for you hehehe.

I struggle with the same question from time to time. You have to find what you consider to be your sweet spot and live in it. Ive realised that serious relationships are not where its at with me. I spend my time surfing, travelling and playing shows. Getting people together for quality food and drink is one way to get some enjoyment and some kind of meaning from life. Do it with quality tho. I buy the best cuts of meat, the best beer, Im busy buying the best musical equipment I can afford to put on the best shows. Have you ever read Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance? - Great book, put it on your reading list, all about how we should live our lives withquality. Doing things with quality in mind makes a huge difference to the outcome. The last time I threw a dinner party, everyone commented on how fantastic the food and drink was and what a good time theyd had. Life felt really sweet that night.

If you are sure that women aren`t the answer, then the only other answer is YOU! Get out of bed early with a spring in your step and attack life! There is so much you can do.

"Marriage is a good way to meet someone you hate and then buy them a house'

[Writing Desk RavenParticipant 460]

@man Solo: Thanks, brother. Another book for the stack. And another tally for “Write a book” on my bucket list, it seems.

Got a few big things changing all at once (new job, new place, new direction), but I’m working on making “because it will improve who you are” a greater driving factor for getting out of bed in the morning.

"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis

[Author]

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