Long held beliefs confirmed and refined.

[MenckenParticipant 693]

A bit hesitant to join but already ostracized for holding libertarian principles so to hell with majority opinion.

It seems men tend to learn the hard way. It is a very effective means of learning, no better way to drive home a point. I too learn the hard way but didn’t with women. I started questioning them in high school and never thought they were entitled to my attention. I decided to let them come to me, luckily for me, they hardly ever did. There were too many white knights begging for their attention so why would they?

I joined the Navy and the gender ratio in that environment multiplied that concept ten fold. In addition, military dependency pay encouraged female rent seeking even more. For first term enlisted, marriage was more money and a ticket out of the barracks to attempt a semi-normal suburban life. Would anyone here be surprised to learn women took advantage of this? After soaking one man, they would move in on his friend. Military men are a prime target.

With a light work schedule, I eventually grew tired of World of Warcraft so I messaged a girl on match.com. The first girl I talked to agreed to come to the base. I met her at the gate and we went to the enlisted club. Turned out she was a model and did photo shoots for small time magazines. Walking with her felt strange. I had never had so many other males jealous of me. Their stares were filled with envy and criticism. I am 6’3, thin, and wear glasses in an environment full of gym rats that wanted to be Rambo. I knew this model was a dead end quickly. She was a professional female and was even getting paid for it. Aside from that, she had no interests, no knowledge, and no passions. This is a trait typical among welfare societies, shells of people with no positive incentives. Well two weeks into it, I refused to cancel a fishing trip to come see her. That upset her that I was putting my desires first. The outdoors has always been my priority and continues to be because I am single. Never saw her again and didn’t really ever date again after that.

After the Navy, I continued to ignore women and even took pleasure at their discomfort when I refused to bow. I thought bowing should be mutual. The military had pounded equal opportunity into my head which I took more seriously than the military did. At 18, I was already upset with military female fit test standards.

Earlier this year I was coyote hunting with two friends. They were making fun of me for not pursuing women. I thought to myself, “One out of three people in this vehicle is not being exploited for child support.” One friend was proud of the fact that he didn’t ever have to pay for sex. I told him bulls~~~, you pay for sex just in different ways. He still has yet to formulate a response to that. I never had many friends, still don’t but have enough. I do not think it coincidence that they share my principles and are somewhat rejected by society for it.

My friends began encouraging me to pursue women and offered advise. The problem I had even from the beginning was that in order to compete, I would have to get in line and beg for attention. It was up to me to initiate conversation and puke countless cheap compliments without getting a single one in return. As a libertarian, servitude disgusted me and always has even before I knew what liberty even meant. My Christian beliefs had me aware of Jezebels. Historical examples of Alexander the Greats crazy mom, Helen of Troy, and Margret Sanger were also in the back of my mind. I wondered why most violent criminals were men and came to the conclusion that females are capable of evil in different ways.

I made some online profiles on Tinder and POF knowing it was mostly “loser” dudes begging for attention of “goddesses”. My experience was as predicted. I would view dozens of profiles and only get one in return. My messages were either ignored or responses were extremely shallow. Some of these girls couldn’t structure a basic sentence much less have any passionate interests. One girl listed philosophy as an interest so I engaged her hoping to learn. She replies with a poorly spelled Dr. Seuss line. My hopes of connecting with a girl through Lockean property rights was dashed. The more honest girls stated it was status and money they craved. They deserved a wealthy obedient man “worthy of their attention”.

Finding an outdoors woman was a fantasy too. They refuse the costs and will only go if someone holds their hand. Female hunters like Eva Shockey seemed more like a super model to me than an actual hunter I could relate too. Facebook is the worst for this. A female would post one photo with a fish and instantly get hundreds of shares, likes, and comments by pseudo-outdoorsmen proclaiming their love for a “real outdoors woman”. It was obvious to me that the photographer was the one with bloodied hands from handling dorsal fins and footing the bill for all the equipment. I do have to give exception to certain older ladies I know who legitimately love being outdoors, just not to my crazy extent. With more of these experiences reinforcing past ones, I deleted all that non-sense from life.

The other night I started watching TFL again. It lead me here. Aside from those couple of friends who had fallen victim to rent seeking females, I had mostly come to these conclusions on my own. I had no idea there was an entire community about it. Finding it just confirmed my suspicions. Even here though, I still may be a dissenter.

After listening to Stefan Molyneux interview a MGTOW (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdbxSRIWu8), I tend to side with Stefan, though the differences are slight. I had wished TFL had been interviewed instead for sake of a better argument. I acknowledge hypergamy but blame the state for it being out of control rather than females in general. Shortly before my friends divorce, the woman told him she does not need him in her life. When asked why, she replied, “The state will take care of me.” It was made clear to me that statism is destroying families. He is in for a bitter court battle but luckily afforded a great lawyer vs. her inept public defender. If you ever go through divorce court, hire a FEMALE lawyer. In a gynocentric society, a female lawyer will be taken more seriously and you won’t look like a woman hating abuser.

I still think it possible people can find a girl but only with very extreme luck and difficulty. For a Christian Libertarian, it is the only conclusion I can honestly come too. I don’t need anymore slave masters than I already have. With that said, F~~~ It. I want to hunt and fish forever.

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

[Anonymous 42]

Another man unattainable and inaccessible to the prowling meat hooks of modern women and never to be harnessed for EXTRACTION!

Congratulations! I’m glad you made it here with all your flesh and all your blood!

Looks like the vampires are gonna starve as we collectively lower their SMV TO ZERO AND SUB-ZERO! WHERE IT SHOULD BE!

Welcome to MGTOW brother, make yourself comfortable!

[<<>>Participant 435]

Welcome home brother! From the tone of your post you seem almost asexual, is it that you feel you “should” be in a relationship, or that you actually desire one? I wasted a lot of time dating and in LTR’s before I realized finally that it’s just not for me. What a relief my breathing has returned to normal after 20 odd years.

[MenckenParticipant 693]

I can understand coming across that way. I can assure you though, I am definitely not asexual (sometimes wished I was) but appear that way for various reasons. I was expected to eventually get in a relationship but never took that pressure too seriously because of my extreme individualist tendencies. Family and friends always used to tell me “Just wait until the right girl comes along” like life was some sort of Bambi movie. I am being told that less and now. People are finally giving up on me!

Another reason I put girls off is because I never felt ready involve other people in my financially unstable life. I hated the Navy and knew it was not going to be a career. I kept putting it off while wising up even more and more as I watched men all around me fall victim.

Secondly, there were times when I honestly did want a relationship and sometimes still fantasize. I never had many friends. Sometimes I wanted to share all my awesome trips (I fished all over the country) with a partner but the idea that you need a relationship to not be alone is retarded.

Back when I used to listen to AM radio as a kid, I heard a famous quote referenced by Michael Savage. “The mark of a sane man is the ability to resist temptation.” I considered promiscuous behavior to be a weakness. Without ever having it, it was likely easier to avoid it. Sort of like not smoking is really easy if you have not tried tobacco. I focused my priorities on my interests, video games and the outdoors. I never drank nor caroused so my experience in the Navy was one of solitude.

Do not mistake me as some hypocritical saint. I don’t preach my practices to anyone and encourage people to live how they want. Though I profess to be a Christian, I am outsider to that community as well and proud of it. Thank God for the internet or else I would have never found other people that share my values.

Why do you say dating was not for you? Were you victimized or did you do an honest cost-benefit analysis? What is a LTR?

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Mencken wrote:

What is a LTR?

“Long term relationship”.

I second Tower’s welcome with enthusiasm!

Mencken wrote:

I still think it possible people can find a girl but only with very extreme luck and difficulty.

Only if you think (and speak) of them as a prize or like “finding a gem”. I don’t equate finding a girl as any kind of challenge. They are EVERYWHERE and as you pointed out, not very interesting.

If you pursue them, you MAY find… but pursue more important things (things that actually reward you and pay) and then –>> women will find YOU. Then your next problem is getting rid of them all.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[MenckenParticipant 693]

Keymaster wrote:

Cthulhu2020 wrote:

What is a LTR?

“Long term relationship”.

I second Tower’s welcome with enthusiasm!

Cthulhu2020 wrote:

I still think it possible people can find a girl but only with very extreme luck and difficulty.

Only if you think (and speak) of them as a prize or like “finding a gem”. I don’t equate finding a girl as any kind of challenge. They are EVERYWHERE and as you pointed out, not very interesting.

If you pursue them, you MAY find… but pursue more important things (things that actually reward you and pay) and then –>> women will find YOU. Then your next problem is getting rid of them all.

Well played sir.

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

[TuneoutParticipant]

Welcome brother, I too was in the Navy and didn’t have serious relationships because of the ‘girl in every port’ cliche.

I also like hunting/fishing and anything else that gets me outside,however I don’t believe in LTR’s because humans as a species are incapable of it IMO,thats why it’s such a novelty to see a couple married for 25+ yrs.
I don’t believe in the ‘Unicorn’ thats supposedly out there waiting for me,or rather I won’t waste my life looking for her.

In the cost/benefit/risk analysis,women are a poor investment choice.

Lifes a bitch,but you don't have to marry one!

[<<>>Participant 435]

Mencken wrote:

I can understand coming across that way.

Only that you never brought up sex as a driving factor.

Mencken wrote:

extreme individualist tendencies.

That’s when you know you are a natural MGTOW.

Mencken wrote:

I considered promiscuous behavior to be a weakness. Without ever having it

It’s all about weighing your energy and resources against the outcome, in the end chasing birds for a little tale is spiritually,physically,and financially draining.

Mencken wrote:

I profess to be a Christian

I am a Christian also and rather than really participating in church functions, I volunteer by cleaning and maintaining the church and surrounding grounds. I do this in whatever town I am in at the time I simply ask around until I am needed and say that I need access to the building and to be alone while I work so that I might commune with God. Have you read “the kingdom of God is within you ” by Tolstoy? it is considered by many Christian Anarchist to be a good guide book for being a Christian in a modern world that follows tradition rather than sound doctrine.

Mencken wrote:

Why do you say dating was not for you? Were you victimized or did you do an honest cost-benefit analysis? What is a LTR?

After many L)ong T)erm R)elationships I have found that I am happiest and the most productive alone. I feel that it took a few let downs to realize this, that every MGTOW comes to the path differently. I have come to realize that I am way more of an introvert than I ever knew before I went to Mexico and rented and apartment for 3 months and did not talk to anyone other than “how much?” and I was fine with that I did not need “people” as much as I thought.

[SolidParticipant 7520]

Welcome home brother !

[MenckenParticipant 693]

I am familiar with Tolstoy and have quoted him before but I have not read his books. Abstinence until marriage was what I thought I believed. You are right though, it was really about the cost-benefit and I was unwilling to spend resources and energy to chase tail. I was no better than anyone else, perhaps worse if I was lying to myself.

It is a welcoming site to see other Christians though. A Tolstoy type Christian is not a popular view these days. I am glad to see that you are happy with a church. I do not mean to offend anyone still involved with church organizations. I just felt I didn’t belong in the few churches I tried, like college intervarsity which was comprised of mostly women. Actually, there might be a correlation there. Never considered that.

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

[MenckenParticipant 693]

Tuneout wrote:

Welcome brother, I too was in the Navy and didn’t have serious relationships because of the ‘girl in every port’ cliche.

I also like hunting/fishing and anything else that gets me outside,however I don’t believe in LTR’s because humans as a species are incapable of it IMO,thats why it’s such a novelty to see a couple married for 25+ yrs.
I don’t believe in the ‘Unicorn’ thats supposedly out there waiting for me,or rather I won’t waste my life looking for her.

In the cost/benefit/risk analysis,women are a poor investment choice.

So you know exactly what I am talking about Navy girls. We called them “NIAs” – Navy Issue Ass. That Unicorn may exist or maybe a unicorn is just a girl not acting on her hypergamy. I know girls in my own family, very wealthy and successful who married unemployed boyfriends from college, though that is very rare. I am on the fence about such a fine point. Either way, its a poor investment choice like you said.

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

[<<>>Participant 435]

Mencken wrote:

I do not mean to offend anyone still involved with church organizations

None taken I am only the maintenance man. I do not attend services and I take no part in the community. I explain to the Pastor that my devotion to Christ is solitary and that I enjoy alone time in the church and will trade my skills for this privilege. I show them my credentials and references from other churches, it’s just me “going my own way” as it were and it’s another way to show that maybe it does not have to be all about tradition. I have had plenty of sex as I was a regionally semi-famous musician luckily I am old and the urge is much tamer now another reason for fully accepting the red pill.

Mencken wrote:

It is a welcoming site to see other Christians
though.

I think there is definitely a subgroup of MGTOW monks lurking around here count me as one, shaved head, humble dress, and all.

[MGTOW_MedicParticipant 184]

Cthulu2020 welcome!

Based on your username I must ask are you a fan of the legendary H.P. Lovecraft?

While I do not consider myself Christian, more Agnostic Objectivist, I grew up Eastern Orthodox, so being around monks whom swore off what they referred to as a carnal life was natural to me.

MGtOW_Medic - EMT - P, Firefighter Lvl 2, Hazmat Ops

[MenckenParticipant 693]

I still need to read the Lovecraft books. My xbox friend has a similar gamer tag, I like South Park, and its also a meme. Cthulhu 2020- Why vote for the lesser of two evils when you can have the greater?

I know that if I gave into the carnality and a girl actually was willing, it would be easy to get addicted. No thanks, Fishing is cheaper and more rewarding.

Misogynist - A man who hates women as much as women hate one another.

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