Lawyer Karma

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2775]

Mr. Lame’s thread about hiring a lawyer ( /forums/topic/woman-lawyer/ ) reminded me of an incident at the end of my divorce that some of you might appreciate.

My divorce lawyer was pretty cool and pretty sharp.  He was also a little rough around the edges and had his own personal problems (married and realized he was gay, was seeing men on the side).  However, he only charged $200/hour.

My ex’s lawyer was your typical high-priced,  slick suited, arrogant prick.  He was also a member of my  church and supposedly a good Christian.  He latched onto my wife during our marriage struggles after she had an affair.  While others were encouraging me to work it out, he was whispering in her ear how she needed to divorce me and deserved a big pay day.

After my ex and I agreed to divorce amicably and I moved out, we were negotiating the terms of the divorce.  After a couple weeks, I noticed that her tone changed and that she was demanding more and was saying things like “I just want what is legally mine.”  Turns out Mr. Prick was pulling the strings.  But I was naïve and just kept trying to hammer out an agreement.  Finances were tough as I was still paying all the bills for her (i.e. house, car, insurance, utilities) plus I was renting a house to live in.  She worked as a teacher and had the kids our house (I wanted minimal disruption in their lives).  All her bills were paid, so she had her entire paycheck for discretionary spending (food, clothes, entertainment), while I had about $100/month for discretionary spending.

When I realized that amount wasn’t going to cover it, I extended my contract with National Guard to get a $10,000 signing bonus.  I figured that would carry me through until the divorce was finalized.

BIG LESSON:  The money was deposited into an account the ex had access to.  There are a lot of people who have been through a divorce who are groaning right now.

Up till this point I was still dropping by to see the kids and take care of the house.  On the weekend, I took the kids camping.  On Tuesday, I went out with the kids to a school performance, and I noticed the ex was acting really weird.  I called on Wednesday to see the kids and the ex was distant and said it wasn’t a good time.  Thursday I got a really weird feeling and I checked my bank account: -$1,200.  There was a $7,500 withdrawal and a couple of checks for monthly bills that the bank went ahead and honored (for a $35 fee each, of course).  Worst was a couple more checks were en route (including the house payment and my rent payment — both of those were returned NSF).  Basically the day after my military bonus hit, it was gone.

Enraged, I called the ex and she said that she got a lawyer and he advised her to take all the money to “protect herself”.  [Yeah, more like to pay his greedy ass].  I called my lawyer to let him know that the divorce was now contested.

Saturday morning I was awakened by a knock at the door.  I was greeted by a process server that handed me a restraining order and a divorce petition (I s~~~ you not) three inches thick.  I read through all of it and my brain exploded.  Never has the eye seen nor the ear heard such a collection of lies, half-truths and ridiculous bulls~~~.  I also discovered that a woman can go into a courthouse, say she fears for her life and get a legal order that says you can no longer go to your house, see your kids, go to their school or church or be anywhere near them.  I also found out that by checking a little box on the order, she can have your guns confiscated.  Easy as that.  No proof or precedent needed.

My ex and I hardly argued, there was never any physical abuse and the cops had never been called.  But no matter.  Her lawyer had told her to meet him at the courthouse with no explanation.  When she got there, he had all the paperwork ready to file the petition and a restraining order.  He also advised her to take any money she could get her hands before I was served.

Then he set up an appointment with a female therapist he was cozy with to interview the kids to see what kind of sexual abuse charges they could trump up.  They got a letter from her stating that while the kids deny any inappropriate sexual contact, the father did take the youngest to Disneyland by himself which is very suspicious and should be investigated further. [Holy f~~~! The wife was out of town with the oldest, so I did something fun with my youngest, and we all agreed to it.  But this was typical to take any event in our 16+ year marriage and turn in into some kind of abuse].

I think you get the picture about Mr. Prick, Divorce Lawyer.  And so it went, he filed motions of delay, change of judges, “oh-I-am-out-town” to prevent me from having a hearing on the restraining order.  Six long, f~~~ing months I couldn’t see my kids or go to my house before the judge put a stop to it and said either be in court or I quash the order.  The whole time the ex kept saying, “Agree to our [draconian] divorce decree and I will lift the restraining order [1/2 of my income for an indefinite period of time as alimony, sole custody of the kids, child support to the tune of $2,000/month, 60% of my retirement, the majority of assets, I assume all debt and her lawyer’s fees, and pay insurance for as long as she needed it.  To add insult to injury, I would only be allowed to see the children for 3 hours on the weekend with a court-appointed guardian present].  Keep in mind she was making $36K a year as a teacher, and our $25K home equity loan (which I was supposed to assume) paid for her degree.  Mr. Prick swore to her that is what she was legally entitled to and that she would get a huge payday.

My lawyer was pretty good about it.  He kept telling me that I would get my day in court and Santa-judge wouldn’t grant her Christmas list.  I wanted to hit back hard.  She was the one who had an affair, I was the one who raised the kids while putting her through college while working from home, she was the one who was bi-polar and on meds, she was the one who would flip out at times and even was written up at work for storming into another elementary teacher’s class and called her a “f~~~ing bitch” in front of the children.

He told me that we didn’t need to do that.  That I would get what you want without doing that, reminding me that once the divorce was done and lawyers gone, I had to still deal with her because of the kids.  He would work with their lawyer to hammer out an agreement.  So I waited.  In the meantime I missed my daughter’s 8th grade graduation, my other daughter’s birthday, and my daughters couldn’t be there for their grandmother’s wedding.

When my day in court for the restraining order came, my lawyer destroyed them, showed a pattern of lies, and generally made them look stupid.  Since no abuse ever happened, there was no evidence, and their contrived evidence was pretty stupid/weak.  The judge agreed and even chastised the counsel for filing this and considered making her pay my lawyer’s fees.

Mr. Prick was smart, because for the next hearing he had the judge switched so they could regroup and play the lies better.  He coached  up the ex and put up a better defense.  It made a little bit of difference, but even this judge told them he had heard enough about alleged “abuse” and was not buying it.  He issued a temporary order till next hearing for my visitation rights and ordered I only had to pay the mortgage on our house she was living in.  Reality was starting to set in.

Mr. Prick changed gears, filing a motion for an all-day divorce hearing that pushed the hearing out several months.  It just so happened that I would be deployed out of country at that time.  Mr. Prick figured he could force a settlement more to their liking because of that.  I countered by going through a pain-in-the-ass military hearing to get my deployment deferred.

When my ex asked if I was willing to settle on their only slightly better terms before I deployed, I told her that I was not deploying and that I will see them in court.  My lawyer tried to work something out with her lawyer and finally gave up.  He confessed that normally lawyers can work out a reasonable agreement, but he was Mr. Prick.

While waiting for court, I noticed my lawyer was becoming unresponsive to my calls, and during our last court hearing, he wasn’t very well prepared.  Eventually I had to get another lawyer who turned out to be awesome.  Later I found out my ex was going through his own divorce, got dumped by his gay lawyer and tried to commit suicide.

With my ex’s case in doubt and with her banging another guy halfway across the country, she dumped the kids on me and said she wanted to settle.  I told her to fire Mr. Prick and we would talk.  She agreed, said he was a “liar and a thief”.  We hammered out an agreement that I was WAY TO GENEROUS and had the papers drawn up.

However, Mr. Prick wanted his cut.  Not only was he hounding her for payment (I saw the nasty letters at the house), he was lying to her telling her I had twice the amount I was claiming, was scamming her, and if he represented her, she would get most of it.

It was tough talking her down from that, but eventually she signed.  There was still a lot of bulls~~~  to come from that crazy bitch, but at least I was divorced, had the kids, and she was living halfway across the country (with an unemployed bum in his parent’s extra mobile home living only off my alimony).

I tell you that story to tell the actual point of this thread, coming up next.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2775]

Even though my ex assured her ex-lawyer he would get his payment once I paid her, he wanted his money yesterday.  He was calling her, her mother, anyone to get his money.

He even had his secretary call me.  This is a big legal no-no since I was represented and he knew it.  Maybe he justified it by making his secretary do it because she is not a lawyer.

Well, I am glad that he did, because I reached through the phone and gave that secretary a big punch in the gut.  The only thing she said after I read her the riot act was “Yes, sir,” and I hung up.

My lawyer was floored he contacted me and sent him a nasty letter threatening to report him to the bar for doing that.  I never heard another word from him.

My ex was tired of him calling her, and she asked me to pay him directly.  It was $16K.  She owed him about $5K more (she had already paid around $6,000).  I went to the bank and got a cashier’s check in her lawyer’s name.  I told my lawyer that I was going to send it to him.  My lawyer said to send it to his office so he could make a copy and forward it on.  Then he made an interesting observation.  He explained that a divorce decree is only between the husband and wife.  Even though I agreed to pay $16K of her legal fees, it was only binding on me to pay her, not her lawyer, Mr. Prick — the man who was solely interested in enriching himself at the expense of totally blowing up the remnants of our relationship and maximizing his billable hours.

A light bulb went on in my head, and suddenly I became CPT Obvious because it was oh-so-obvious how a certain scenario would play out.

I went to the bank and returned the cashier’s check and put it in my ex-wife’s name.  I sent it to my lawyer and told him to please make a copy and send it certified mail to my ex.

I emailed my ex and told her what my lawyer said, and that I sent the money directly to her.

Now the Karma.

Within two minutes of sending that email, I got a response:  “He is not getting a dime of that, I am keeping it for myself.”  BOOM.

Later Mr. Prick’s office contacted my lawyer asking about the status of the $16K.  My lawyer provided documentation that it was paid to my ex per the terms of the decree.

Mr. Prick called my ex, and she told him to pound sand.  She went on to file for bankruptcy, wiping out the liability.

A small, satisfying victory in a long war.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

[Smitty the Great OneParticipant 1535]

I always like a story where the lawyer gets f~~~ed, those truly are happy endings…

Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

Chit, I love that way that story ended!!!

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

That was a great read. I to liked the ending. I hired no lawyer gave my wife everything but my cloths and truck. A house paid for no mortgage. her vehicle paid off. She still ended up in government housing and on state benefits.

Two years before the end of my child support obligations the State of Oklahoma department of human services filed charges against me for failing to pay child support for a time period that it was being deducted from my paychecks.This story is in my introduction. I payed directly and avoided giving the state any money for all those years. My ex always saying I have to pay through the state. She would make threats saying it don’t count unless it goes through the state. I had learned as you did that a divorce decree is only between the husband and wife. The state never had any legal contract with me. I kept it that way until they charged me with a crime while at the same time  stealing from me. I refused to hire a lawyer, insisted on a jury trial and had a good constitutional defense prepared. In one private meeting with the female attorney for the State, I gave my entire strategy. She chose to ask for dismissal.I told her I would claim the right to DIRECTLY support my child pursuant to her needs, and use the 9th amendment to protect that right. I had previously secured and exercised the right to make direct support payments. If the ninth amendment is strong enough to protect a woman’s right to kill her unborn child (roe vs wade) then surely its strong enough to protect a man’s right to support his child directly.

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2775]

harpo-my-“SON” wrote:

That was a great read. I to liked the ending. I hired no lawyer gave my wife everything but my cloths and truck. A house paid for no mortgage. her vehicle paid off. She still ended up in government housing and on state benefits. Two years before the end of my child support obligations the State of Oklahoma department of human services filed charges against me for failing to pay child support for a time period that it was being deducted from my paychecks.This story is in my introduction. I payed directly and avoided giving the state any money for all those years. My ex always saying I have to pay through the state. She would make threats saying it don’t count unless it goes through the state. I had learned as you did that a divorce decree is only between the husband and wife. The state never had any legal contract with me. I kept it that way until they charged me with a crime while at the same time stealing from me. I refused to hire a lawyer, insisted on a jury trial and had a good constitutional defense prepared. In one private meeting with the female attorney for the State, I gave my entire strategy. She chose to ask for dismissal.I told her I would claim the right to DIRECTLY support my child pursuant to her needs, and use the 9th amendment to protect that right. I had previously secured and exercised the right to make direct support payments. If the ninth amendment is strong enough to protect a woman’s right to kill her unborn child (roe vs wade) then surely its strong enough to protect a man’s right to support his child directly.

Thanks for the bump.

Isn’t it f~~~ing amazing to watch these women, after all the money and assets that get showered on them in a divorce, just p~~~ it all away and go broke?

Lastly, good for you fighting the state run scam of having to pay CS through them.  That takes some brass b~~~~, but I have thought the same thing.  Every time you pay the state in AZ, there is a $5 fee.  Most people pay twice a month.  Multiply that by the thousands upon thousands paying and that adds up pretty quick.  Just another tax.

I begrudgingly go along because I am sure my ex would pull the same s~~~ as yours, and for me it is worth not having to fight her in court again.  However, I did have a small victory.  My original decree stated that I pay the state clearinghouse through payroll deduction.  I quickly discovered that ADP charges me $2.50 to take the payment.  So with fees twice a month, I was paying  $15 bucks a month for the privilege of paying child support.  Not a whole lot, but still that is $180 a year. (Side Note: Why does the payer have to pay this fee? Shouldn’t the payee be the one to incur this since she is getting the money?)

I also didn’t like the fact that essentially my wife had me by the wallet forcing me to pay.  So when I needed to redo my parenting decree, I had my lawyer add a paragraph that I would pay the clearinghouse directly monthly.  I also liked the idea of finally having some leverage on my ex with the money I was paying her. e,g,  So you don’t want to send my kid to see me this holiday as per our decree?  Well, I just won’t pay CS this month.

Both ADP and the state fought me on this because it was less money in their pockets.  It took over a dozen phone calls from both me and my lawyer pointing out we had a court ordered directive that they were not adhering to and threatening legal action for them to change it.  Now I am only paying $5/month, saving $120/year in fees.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

CPT  I am not amazed by the lack of fiscal responsibility shown by divorced women.

Good for you finding every dollar you could save. I think your correct in believing the payee should pay any fee involved in receiving cs. That makes  much more sense. When I play poker at the casino the dealer gets a tip from the player that won the hand. The losers should not have to pay.

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[TomParticipant 3]

Liked all these story, my ex after a 5 month marriage of course she wanted half of everything , so the fight was on from the get go , I had to pay her fees of course because her lawyer said she was indigent , yet she had an apartment from her job , she works for the state . Long story short, it took two years, a false domestic violence charge because I texted her I wanted to get the stuff off my laptop. So she became scared, I did not see her for seven months mind you when that happened, that was dropped I got my weapons back the same day. Then her lawyer advised her to take my laptop to the FBI, well she did with him, because I do work in the Nuclear industry, and they wanted me to sign there settlement and get me fired to boot, well f~~~ that, so I had a criminal investigation launched on me, so I bitched to the FBI, bitched to everyone that would listen, so I got cleared of that. During that time I was supposed pay to him 2,000 more for a total of 7,000, well at mediation  we put a clause in stating I owe nothing more other then what’s been paid and the ex-owed him the two grand. They never read it, she took 15,000 and signed that was her prize. Then after the divorce I file a bar complaint, for him going to the FBI with my ex, and totally f~~~ing my laptop up, and selling it back to me for $400 no s~~~, at the same time he tries to get me to pay him, well my attonery told him to read the final, well he finally did , have not heard a word. While that was going on , I took the ex-back to court for the only two things I asked for back, my laptop which I got back and it was trashed , and a google Sony TV , broken . Well her attonery tried to blame the FBI for trashing my laptop and fought the bar complaint during that hearing , by the way I filed a motion to have him disqualified because he was the jackass that drove my ex to the FBI , then let her sell my own property back broken and new it. With all the motions I was filing he wanted 1,500 for his fees, to represent my ex. The ending, I never seen attonery so red talking to a judge telling why he thought my laptop should go to the FBI, I was actually laughing. He defended only himself that day like I thought. The judge said I did not have enough evidence but a good small claims case and I was in the wrong court. SO I proudly stated , Sorry for wasting everyone’s  f~~~ing time as loud as I could ,in court , silence rang out , and I gathered my stuff and walked out with my head held high ,I did this pro se cost only $40.00 , knowing that I did not have to pay the 2,000 nor the 1,500 he was asking for , he never asked after that speech he gave to embraced, never seen such a red face in my life and the judges eyes wide open . You have to find humor otherwise you will go nuts. . It was the biggest joke. The irony was he did go after her for the money so I heard, and I’m glad , two birds one stone , I say that because there were other lawyers in the court room that this dude works with in our small town and the look on their faces was priceless, justice no , a smiling face yes.

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2775]

@tom thanks for reading and sharing your story.  That is some crazy stuff, and yes humor is essential.  Divorce Lawyers and some of the s~~~ they pull.  How can they look in themselves in the mirror?

Here is one for you.  During the divorce proceedings, one thing the court ordered was to list all our assets worth over $100 dollars and ordering none of those assets to be disposed of till the judgment.

One morning I was checking my daughter’s FaceBook page and saw her posting news of a huge garage sale at my house (this was during the restraining order phase, so I couldn’t go over there).  I immediately told my lawyer, and he contacted her lawyer to order her to stop.  Her lawyer said, too bad, the judge said she couldn’t dispose of anything worth more than $100 and she was selling everything for less than $100.  TVs, entertainment center, electronics, the kids bedroom furniture, my $800 BBQ, pool table, compound bow, and on and on. Liquidated for squat.

At the very least I was supposed to get half of the proceeds.  Didn’t see a dime.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

[…Spectator 1165]

Cap Obv: OUCH.

[TomParticipant 3]

 

Wow, crazy stuff.  Some Divorce Lawyers feed on the misery of others through   wallets, I never thought nor felt the anger I had until he came into my life, he was a mouth piece for her after all, I now understand how and why bad things can happen in a divorce. I always had an even temperament until my divorce, it was a free for all, there needs to be changes in the laws.  Yet I can say this, this man was a pit bull for no reason. The judge did not even listen to a word I said till the end, and I think what I did even dumbfounded him. You have to stand up even if alone, I fired my attonery in the end because it simply did not matter to the judge his mind was already made up the day I filed.

Other funny note when they took my guns, you know the legal 2nd amendment rights we don’t really have, in the constitution. That one. My bow was on my wall hanging, the cops in my house looking for every last bullet, had a 20 minute conversation on whether or not they should take that to, after they were done I looked at one and said well how far do I have to stay away from my soon to be ex, they replied 1000 feet, my response was well hell am only good to 75 yards on that, they immediately took it off the wall LOL. I can say the cops were cool about it though, they get paid, the state gets paid for doing this, everyone gets paid and it all comes from our taxes. So men today going through this, pays more than their ex to get f~~~ed. Uncle Sam even has his hand it. I got way lucky, all told $30,000 for a five month marriage. Beats $500,000 retirement day.

 

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2775]

That was a pretty funny quote about the bow.

And, Brother, I hear you about the 2nd Amendment BS.  I was obsoletely floored that someone can simply request that your guns be taken from you without any proof or a hearing.  Like you, the cop I was working with was really cool and helpful, but get this…..

After the restraining order was quashed, I called the police to get my guns back.  I got a bitchy policewoman.  She took a week to verify that the court quashed the order (even though I offered to walk the court-certified copy of the dismissal to her).

Once she verified, I asked when and where I could get my guns.  Her response:  They have to do a background check first.  Say what?!!  Okay fine, a background check takes just a few minutes.  Anyone who has bought a gun knows that.  However, the police do a ‘special’ background check that takes longer.  How long?  She told me after a month I would be able to get my guns back assuming my background check comes back ok.

I was not amused, but waited the month and called her back again asking when and where I could pick up my guns.  She took a couple days to verify my background check, said it came back clean, but that she never said I would get my guns back.

Now I am hot.  Long story short, the Police, at least in AZ where I live, do not want to give your guns back after they have them.  They will run you around until you have your lawyer contact them asking whom he should name and where he should send the summons for a court hearing to sue to get them back.

Ironically, when they agreed I could pick them up, my guns were being held at an evidence warehouse less than a mile from my house behind the fire station.  So close all that time.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

[Mr. LameParticipant 13]

Damn! Im waking up to a lot of s~~~… My guns will be moved tomorrow!

[TomParticipant 3]

Suggestion, don’t just move them make sure you get a receipt from someone you trust , I mean really trust . That way when they come you just hand them that , If you sold them they are no longer yours . Have them moved then buy them back after the smokes clears . I would say that most of us who have guns understand what they can do  , we hunt with them , protect ourselves , our property with , all of these protections are our rights as US citizen.

Now  when you look at the domestic violence coordinators in your court house they are funded by the federal government , and your state government , they pay women to make women better victims even when no evidence is present. It simple does not matter . Imagine if we (men) had the same  protections from those little title drones (women) who walk around claiming they are afraid.

I  did go to the DA wanted to prosecute for my ex filing false claims , they basically told me this is how it is. I could only sue civil court , and hind site I should have and if men started doing that , s~~~ would change . Slander and libel are real, we need to use the system. Only then will they get the message .

 

 

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