JohntheOther dismisses EvoPsych as "Pseudoscience"

[uncle_malkyParticipant 8]

I was very disappointed to see JohntheOther, over the course of his last two vids, go the way of the gender studies major and claim that the behavior of the sexes is due mainly (if not entirely) to social conditioning. JtO says that besides some “minor” physical differences, men and women are “basically the same,” and thus have virtually identical psychology. He says if men had the same social advantages as women, they would act as women do, end of story. He dismissed Evolutionary Psychology as “pseudoscience” in the most arrogant way possible and thus spat in the face of Stardusk (who has already responded in the form of a discussion of EvoPsych with GWW) who is the most popular MGTOW to discuss the subject most often on YT. I Slay Pretty Lies, Messenger Rising, and Turd Flinging Monkey have responded with videos as well.

This is rather surprising as JtO has never (to my limited knowledge) expressed such skepticism of the great biological differences between men and women, that men and women behave differently due mainly to social conditioning rather than biological factors. The usual anti-MGTOW, NAWALT- enthusiast trolls have applauded him in the comments section of both videos and I really wonder what JtO’s motivations are. He had recently done a hangout with Barbar discussing “neo-masculinity” and also published an article on Barbar’s blog. There is no shortage of disagreement in the YT MGTOW sphere, even if you discount political left-right disputes. This however, seems strange because it seemed to come out of the blue, whereas the schisms such as the ones between Stardusk and Sandman or Clarey and Barbar escalated more gradually over a relatively long period of time.

Can anyone offer some insights as to JtO’s motivations for this sudden bout of moralizing and authoritativeness? Does anyone see some benefit to MGTOW for JtO to suddenly rejecting significant biological differences as the basis for the disparity of behavior between men and women and in doing so undermine biology based theories of gynocentrism, hypergamy, etc.? After he released his most recent “Women Are Evil” video (in which he reiterates that women are NOT evil. I don’t know any popular MGTOW that states that, f~~~ing straw man), I un-subbed him. What do you guys think of this recent turn of events?

[RoyDalParticipant]

I agree JTO is wrong on this one.

I happen to believe far more human behavior is genetically programmed than any of us really want to believe. Those famous studies of separated twins come immediately to mind. Two genetically identical people who had never met one another made amazingly similar choices in their lives.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

JTO has talked himself in to a strange place. I think he’s spent so much time looking at trees …. he now can’t see the woods.

It is very important to ‘take a break’ now and then. Otherwise you end up …. well …. going a bit …. umm .. JTO 😆

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

Here’s Girlwritewhat and Stardusk talking about evolution biology.

 

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[uncle_malkyParticipant 8]

I think GWW was talking up EvoPsych before Stardusk was really on the scene. I think he mentioned that once. Anyways, JtO recently had a falling out with GWW in the form of a “meltdown” which was nothing but some f~~~ing dispute in the comments section that JtO thought was relevant enough to make a video about and tell a bunch of us (who didn’t really care) about some f~~~ing drama between his old lady and GWW.

I didn’t pay close attention but I think the thing was GWW was trying to say traditionalism is good for men (she’s entitled to her opinion) and there was some fallout from that.

[QcummerParticipant 652]

I find it strange that people question why ‘sandman’ or ‘john the other’ or ‘guy who makes videos’ does anything different.

Who cares what some dude thinks?

He ain’t more enlightened than I am. No one gave me a red pill or told me to go my own way. I assessed my entire life 7 years ago and was shocked at my conclusion…I just thought I was the only one.

If a man decides to spend a s~~~ load of time making videos after ‘going his own way’ with his opinions/thoughts/beliefs/experience, well there’s not really much to f~~~ing say is there? How can you ‘go your own way’ by talking about ‘going your own way’ week after week? You simply run out of s~~~ to say and start getting into areas that are beyond that ‘ah hah!’ MGTOW moment. Just cuz someone has a ‘name’ associated with MGTOW doesn’t make them some kind of authority on anything. I’m not impressed by anything other than mgtow.com.

Once you go your own way, the last thing I expect is a bunch of men agreeing on any further analysis into any subject. We’re men, and we don’t need no stinkin’ pundits wearing a MGTOW badge. We go MGTOW based on our own realizations of reality.

In short, who gives a f~~~?… when you go your own way, use your own f~~~ing brain. Does John the Whatever have any stock tips too?

If anything will last and be worth a s~~~ in regards to ‘MGTOW’, it’s mgtow.com, and even this could turn into a place where there’s no reason to stick around. So f~~~ John, I wanna hear YOU instead.

 

[RoyDalParticipant]

I agree completely with GWW’s opening remarks. (Full disclosure: I did not spend the hour necessary to hear the whole thing.)

In regards to Traditionalism, The Patriarchy, whatever you want to call it: There is no example in history, not one, of a society run by women achieving a successful long-lasting civilization. By “successful long-lasting civilization,” I mean building towns and defending its territory from invaders.

Feminists speculate that all societies were matriarchal in pre-history — they won’t get tenure if they don’t. There is absolutely no proof of this, if only because no one wrote about it and passed the knowledge on. Seriously, there are no paleolithic cave drawings depicting women hunting dangerous game, although there are some showing them doing fertility and birth things. Such matriarchies that ever existed went out before the invention of the grass hut.

Turning the Western World into a pseudo-matriarchy is a colossal blunder. We will be paying for it for generations, that is assuming there even is a Western Civ in the future.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

I really really want to say ‘let it burn’ ….. but I won’t.

[RusskyParticipant 13503]

I can’t wait for the promised video where he promised to explain this particular topic. What kind of arguments is he going to come up with?
Oh the suspense

proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

To focus on a core question here: How scientific is evolutionary psychology?  I go google, and try to look things up with it, and I get critics of it, and questioning how much of it is science.

I am of the belief it is not beneficial to have a conclusion and use that conclusion to validate or invalidate another school of thought, because you prefer it.

From a MGTOW perspective, and I will show you my biases here, I am concern about any school of thought that speaks of determinism regarding what men can or can’t do, and makes them out to be helpless. Doing this, particularly with the area of sex drives, ends up meaning men can’t help BUT be enslaved by women and MUST have sex with them, as there is no other choice in the matter.  That line of thinking leads to the “You are MGTOW because you can’t get laid”.

Again, how scientific is evolutionary psychology?

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[uncle_malkyParticipant 8]

I’ve heard the main criticism of EvoPsych is that we have no way of knowing the psychology of our ancestors i.e. what motivated them to do this or that.

That’s a far point. However, humans are sexually dimorphic AND that they have not just different bodies but different, distinct ways of thinking, no matter how they’re raised or where, is not disputed among serious academics. It’s PC to say, “We all have the same psychological abilities.” But that is like saying “We all have the same chance of winning a gold medal in the olympics.” That men and women have evolved in psychologically  different, distinct ways is scientific enough for the likes of Stephen Pinker as can be found in his book The Blank Slate.

More evidence is presented in a video from TFM to reply to JtO here

and here is a good breakdown from Stardusk on how nature and nurture play into society

SD is the YT MGTOW who speaks the most about how we are ruled by biology. He doesn’t say we’re bound to be enslaved to sex but that he is very doubtful more than a small minority of men will become as conscious of their sex drive as MGTOW who have knowledge about biology.

[JasonParticipant 282]

I usually go the most direct route by asking something like “How many women do you know with a prostate? How many men do you know with a uterus? We have these *immense* physical differences between genders, and you claim that much smaller differences – behavioral ones – cannot have any basis in biology? What about menstruation? Do you claim that women’s behavioral changes when they menstruate come down solely to social conditioning and that actual, physical, menstruation itself doesn’t actually take place?”

Naturally, genetics influence behavior, but so does social conditioning, personal experiences, level of self-awareness/self-reflection, etc; the mistake many people make lies in assuming one or more of these do not influence behavior at all, such as the people denying the influence of evolutionary psychology. For a long time we didn’t know how a bumblebee flies* despite the apparent contradiction of its wingspan vs its mass, but did that make people deny its ability to fly? Did they say the bumblebee somehow tricked not only our eyes and ears, but all our scientific instruments also? Well, some people, maybe, but I think we can agree on the idiocy involved in those cases.

Some people assume the factors involved – the ones they don’t deny, anyhow – always holds the same percentage influence on overall behavior. Not so; not only can the influence of one factor vary over time (new experiences invariably influence behaviors, for instance), but different factors can reinforce or detract from one another. For instance, everyone here (I assume) knows about hypergamy, and they also know that this, by and large, has its base in evolutionary psychology. However, learned behavior – whether overall social conditioning by society (e.g. feminism) or personal experiences (e.g. a broken home, absent parents, rich parents, poor parents, etc) also factor into it. A woman taught, while growing up, that hypergamy makes for disgusting and dishonorable behavior will have a much lower likelihood of engaging in it than someone who doesn’t get taught the same lesson. However, this doesn’t prevent the woman from doing so anyway; it simply lowers the statistical likelihood of it, and at any time other factors may weigh in to the point that they “tip the balance”. I know, to some of you this sounds like determinism – which you may despise – however remember I mentioned self-awareness/self-reflection as a possible factor. Much like how base compounds can give rise to more complex structures (particles to atoms, atoms to molecules, molecules to…you get the idea) so can the “base” factors, such as evolutionary psychology and social conditioning, give rise to higher levels of self-awareness and self-reflection, essentially developing a person’s “free will” (however you wish to define that) or consciousness. Whether this entails “actual” free will or merely the illusion thereof, does it matter? Our perception remains the same either way, so the distinction has no objective value. Simply pick one of the two views and do what you will and stop complaining about it.

* The very specifically tuned aerial vibrations from a bumblebee’s wings create a vortex above them which then lifts them up, pretty much the same way a helicopter does; hence why, if you put your hand above a flying bumblebee, it will suddenly start falling whether it wants to or not – the hand prevents the vortex from forming, and thus takes away its lifting power.

There lies serenity in Chaos. Seek ye the eye of the hurricane.

[ChristovParticipant 85]

I have some friends and some exposure to the gay community.

*When I was young, I thought that homosexuality was (at least sometimes) a conscious decision that allowed men to get laid while avoiding female drama and idiocy. I didn’t dabble in the practice, but I wasn’t shy about making friends with men that happen to be gay.*

However, what I learned is that attractive prey in the gay community act exactly like women. Including adopting the entitled mindset. IE… They’re total bitches.

…To the point that the “prey” are no longer men in emotional capacity. And it’s impossible to be around them, or respect them as men.

 

This example does negate a specific evolutionary  difference between men and women. When men are given a similar social advantage, they’re pieces of s~~~, too.

 

What’s the saying?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Bread BaronParticipant 23]

Intellectuals usually subscribe to the tabula rasa perspective of human personality and abilities. These people who believe in the intellect’s power to control its environment have to believe that the environment is actually malleable. Characteristics essential to a thing’s nature act against their assumption that with enough, knowledge, time and determination, they can change and improve it. Essential characteristics rear their ugly heads in defiance of them, and need to be constantly pruned.

I believe this is why academics are almost always bluepill. I have interacted with philosophy professors who vomit bulls~~~ about our society’s suppression of knowledge and how we are being indoctrinated, and then they segue into the typical feminist dogma. They don’t see how the control of women’s sexual choice was necessary, because according to them, maleness and femaleness are not essential identities but artificial psychological states.

[Darth SinParticipant 576]

Bread Baron wrote:

Intellectuals usually subscribe to the tabula rasa perspective of human personality and abilities. These people who believe in the intellect’s power to control its environment have to believe that the environment is actually malleable. Characteristics essential to a thing’s nature act against their assumption that with enough, knowledge, time and determination, they can change and improve it. Essential characteristics rear their ugly heads in defiance of them, and need to be constantly pruned. I believe this is why academics are almost always bluepill. I have interacted with philosophy professors who vomit bulls~~~ about our society’s suppression of knowledge and how we are being indoctrinated, and then they segue into the typical feminist dogma. They don’t see how the control of women’s sexual choice was necessary, because according to them, maleness and femaleness are not essential identities but artificial psychological states.

Red Pill / MGTOW Academic here. Though that usually results in me wanting to spend as little time as possible around blue pill academics.

[Anonymous 0]

I have seen a lot of MGTOW against MGTOW, and best way too teach it etc. It’s funny how even in a minuscule group like this world wide. There is already disagreements. Which brings me to something far more important to say:

I really think you guys are overestimating the intelligence of the general population. In the military, there is a method of “Teach at the Grade 8 Level” this way you can effectively streamline and mobilise large numbers of solders in pursuit of a common goal. They don’t teach the physics of how and why a weapon works, they teach you how to use it.

I have been MGHOW for 4 years now. However, I only found out about the MGTOW movement in the last month. The discovery of MGTOW has not really taught me anything I didn’t already ‘think myself’ from experience with a lot of women. But what it has done, is make me (1). Confirm in my head that I was correct. and (2). I was not the only one. (All my friends and family are blue pill types)

I think the fighting with each other is actually funny, because it is also a quintessential signature of Men’s propensity to compete with each other. And the sad part about that, is that its also the sole reason why you are enslaved to begin with. Men divided and remaining conquered due to their divisions.

I respect Stardusk, as he is the emotionless, objective and scientific voice from the darkness that deeply studies human nature. This is great for people like us who have over 2 digit IQ and can and want to understand. Therefore, it is important that the information is there and stays intact. But I don’t agree with certain aspects of the hardcore academic type. He is of the opinion that the only fight worth having, is one based in fact and science, statistics etc. He believes that if MGTOW is quickly interpreted by the mainstream as an “All girls suck” idea etc. That it will be dismissed, stamped out and treated as radicals. He thinks that the ‘easily digestible’ and quick videos of Sandman are not going to help in any lasting way.

This part I disagree with entirely. (1) Because this implies that all of the unfair laws and society bulls~~~ we disagree with, was also put in place the same way. However we know thats not true. No one used ‘science arguments’ to oppress men in the first place. It was completely cultural. Therefore humankind does have the power to oppress with culture. And hence can also liberate with culture as well.

Expecting every man on the planet to get a degree in Evolutionary Psychology and study our historical biology is a wishful and fools game.

Co-operation with each other is the only hope of changing any societies rules. If it were the way I wanted, Sandman/Stardusk/Barbar, everyone would co-operate and see themselves as different levels of the Matrix. Keep the thick and scientific information like Stardusk and GWW at the base. And all other things grow from there.  All the way up to the most easily digestible levels like Sandman. Don’t contradict each other, and don’t pull down any MGTOW who is spreading the cause. Which, on the 2% chance it succeeded in a societal change, it would help your remaining life on this planet as well.

Let MGTOW grow, all opposition to outrageous oppression is positive (obviously non violent). It won’t remain ONLY Stardusk and Bar Bar who are the academic genius minded Shakespeare’s.  There will be more who fit that academic stereotype. As there will be more Sandmans.

Some time’s you just have to learn how to get along, and if you don’t you don’t stand a snow flakes chance in hell against the female world co-operative stronghold.

[Anonymous 0]

Spot on Jason. Your thoughts echo mine. We are a combination switching hierarchy of factors coming from both inbuilt “lizard brain” biology and environmental factors. And the “tipping” in one favour at different times is an excellent way to put it.
Fear is a perfect example of one of these tipping behaviours of a learned environment. I remember reading somewhere that in training Elephants in Thailand they could get a fully grown adult Elephant, tie it to a tree with a thick steel linked chain. And if it wanted to escape, it would easily shatter the chain and pull the tree down and walk away no problem.

However, train a baby elephant from birth however, and from it’s young age, start tying its leg to a tree with a basic rope. Later, an adult Elephant, tie the same Elephant to the same tree with the same weak rope and it won’t be able to escape. Convinced in it’s mind and hence it doesn’t even try.

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