I've never understood this obsession with wanting to "own" property.

[ComputernerdParticipant 465]

Since I’m almost debt free, my family especially, has been nagging me nonstop to buy a house or a condo. They keep telling me “how great it is to be a home owner” while spewing the usual bulls~~~ about the benefits of “owning property.”

Condos are nice, but I’d never want to own one. Living in them is like living in an apartment, except, you’re stuck with the place until you sell it. With an apartment, you’re out of there within a month tops if you needed to move.

Condo ownership maybe less expensive than home ownership, but it’s just a big ball and chain designed to keep you in one place. Which is why I’ll never own one.

Home ownership is just complete bulls~~~ in my eyes. You have to deal with high maintenance costs, maintain the lawn every week, and deal with higher utility bills than if you were renting an apartment.

Coupled with the ever rising high property taxes, insurance, and the overral risk factor of your neighborhood turning into a poor ghetto area, home ownership just isn’t worth it.

Home owners might say I’m just p~~~ing my money away renting, but I don’t see it that way. I’m paying for free plumping and repairs, free amenities like swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms, etc. I’m also paying for free lawn maintenance. So my free time isn’t being wasted on doing s~~~ like mowing the lawn or repairing leaky pipes.

With home ownership, there’s always something going wrong. You have to deal with fixing/updating the functionality of your home. You have to deal with maintaining it and worry about getting contractors/inspectors/plumbers/etc. You have to worry about paying an extra $1000 dollars or so to fix your roof because it’s “not up to city code.”

The biggest reason home ownership is complete bulls~~~ in my eyes is because it ties you down. It’s just a big f~~~ing ball and chain. You can’t move into a cheaper place or relocate somewhere in a month’s notice. You can only do that if you rent. Which is the biggest reason I’ll never own a home or a condo.

To me, MGTOW is about freedom. You just can’t have total freedom if you’re tied down to property.

[Anonymous 42]

With home ownership comes the one thing I value the most.

Telling whoever I don’t like to GET THE F~~~ OUT!

Owning your own home comes with the privacy of not having someone else nestled comfortably under your b~~~~.

[ComputernerdParticipant 465]

Anonymous wrote:

With home ownership comes the one thing I value the most.

Telling whoever I don’t like to GET THE F~~~ OUT!

You can do the same with renting, at least in apartments. But I could never be held down to a property because it just holds you down in one place. I’d rather be free to be able to move anywhere I want in a month or less if I ever chose to.

Plus, all that extra money I’d of wasted in interest for a mortgage goes to better things.

[Anonymous 42]

I don’t disagree, I would be much happier renting a rustic small cabin deep in the woods for the same money but much more freedom to do whatever the f~~~ I want!

I don’t live well in a community of compromise, rules, and regulations.

They have rules, life does not…

[~BSParticipant 3266]

both trains of thought have their good and bad. I’m not really going to go into deep here, you can do the research and decide for yourself. I will mostly just say to make sure you fully understand and accept whichever path you take. You should really take the time to pencil out the numbers. Everyone’s situation is different.

As a bachelor, I prefer condo living because of lack of maintenance. Maintaining a house is time consuming or costly or both. Houses are better for families of at least 3 IMO. Aside from the obvious benefit of paying off the mortgage/building equity in the property, there is also the tax benefit. Between a federal tax credit and schedule a deductions, my taxes are reduced by $4-5k per year.

You’re not truly tied down to a property if you own it. You can always move out whenever you choose to rent it or sell it. If you’re in a yearly lease, as MGTOW mentioned, you always “having someone else nestled comfortably under your b~~~~.”

just my .02

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

[ComputernerdParticipant 465]

Anonymous wrote:

I would be much happier renting a rustic small cabin deep in the woods for the same money but much more freedom to do whatever the f~~~ I want!

Same here. If I could find a cabin to rent somewhere about an hour or so away from the city, that would be ideal.

~BS wrote:

You’re not truly tied down to a property if you own it. You can always move out whenever you choose to rent it or sell it. If you’re in a yearly lease, as MGTOW mentioned, you always “having someone else nestled comfortably under your b~~~~.”

That’s true, but if you own a property, you always have the government nestled comfortably under your b~~~~.

The only way I’d ever own a property is if I never had to pay property taxes. Why avoid renting if you’re going to be paying “rent” to the government? Just doesn’t sit well with me.

[sonofthedestroyerParticipant 318]

There is no simple answer for this. Some will want their own home. Others wont.

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

not owning a property comes with many freedoms.

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[TuneoutParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t disagree, I would be much happier renting a rustic small cabin deep in the woods for the same money but much more freedom to do whatever the f~~~ I want!

I don’t live well in a community of compromise, rules, and regulations.

They have rules, life does not…

Basically what I do,owner is a good old boy

(I don’t mean that in the racist sense) just your

trad country gentleman,I do the maintenance anyway-

which isn’t much and have lots of income left for

my bus & investments. The place doesn’t look like

much from the outside-the way I like it-but the few

people I have over are impressed with what I’ve

done inside.

I’ve seen studies comparing home ownership vs renting

and investing and the only way to really come out

ahead with owning is making sure you stay in the house

till the mortgage is paid off so hopefully the equity

will be enough when it comes time to sell and cash out.

Lifes a bitch,but you don't have to marry one!

[~BSParticipant 3266]

fcking comment didn’t post.

i’ll just make a short post – every state is different regarding property taxes, some are ridiculous, some arent. govt always gets it’s take in the form of taxes. It’s like not buying a steak or a can soda because there’s a tax on it. there’s tax on everything, real property included. price of admission.

For me personally, in 10 years once I pay the mortgage, I’ll gladly pay the yearly property tax and not deal with paying market rate rents. Because if you’re a renter, you are still paying the owner’s property taxes and other expenses indirectly. And you will continue to pay them for the rest of your life. And through the decades, that monthly cost increases. With a mortgage, fixed monthly cost until it’s paid off, at which point you’re paying taxes and maintenance.

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

It’s a tradcon mindset

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Anonymous 24]

I am going to say that yes, both sides have their advantages. But the thing that drives the value of your house is money lending. Whenever they decide to tighten up, your house is worth s~~~. It is just a system of creating debt slaves. Market value is driven by how much easy money is lent out. You really think that house you are in is worth what it is in a real system without FIAT money? lol NO, not by a longshot. Go ask anyone who put a decent amount down on a loan leading up to the collapse of 08 and they will tell you “good luck”. If you walk away from the house at some point because it is worthless, which in many areas houses are still worth 1/3 of what people paid in the 5-10 years leading up to the collapse, you not only lose the house, you lose the down payment, then you and those around you pay to bail the banks out. As far as I know no laws have changed since 08. You are at the mercy of the “Federal” Reserve (never audited once in the 103 years of existence). They behave irresponsibly, you pay for it on both ends, first in the value of your house collapsing, then by you bailing them out, oh and you get to walk around with a sore ass from losing the down payment for the rest of your life as well.

[ComputernerdParticipant 465]

~BS wrote:

It’s like not buying a steak or a can soda because there’s a tax on it.

The thing with that is, even though there’s a sales tax on my soda, I don’t have to pay it monthly for the rest of my life.

I can deal with paying property taxes indirectly while I rent, because I don’t have to deal with property maintenance. Landlords take care of that for me.

And home owners always bring up “the rising cost of rent” yet, a lot of them never bring up “the ever rising cost of property tax.”

Ever seen the movie “The Money Pit”? It’s a good movie, and it definitely outlines a lot of the big reasons why I’d never own a home. (Yes, I know a lot of it is exaggerated because it’s a comedy, but still, it has its points).

As a MGTOW, I want as little responsibility as possible. And owning a property just adds more “responsibility” that I don’t need or want.

[Anonymous 42]

Anonymous wrote:

You are at the mercy of the “Federal” Reserve (never audited once in the 103 years of existence). They behave irresponsibly, you pay for it on both ends, first in the value of your house collapsing, then by you bailing them out.

Say it isn’t so Joe, say it isn’t so! +1!

[Freeman_KParticipant 3524]

This is imo a mindset question. For me owning debt free property translates to freedom and safety net.

From pure finance viewpoint though there are many calculators online where anyone can see based on his circumstances what is better. Since there are always few assumptions it comes down to personal preference.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html?_r=0

The choices we make, not the chances we take, determine our destiny

[BeerParticipant 11832]

It was all about crunching the numbers for me. When I bought my condo my mortgage, taxes, and condo fees were about equal to rent. Fast forward 10 years…I refinanced at a lower rate and my payment went down while rents have risen faster in the area than my taxes and condo fees, as those are my only expenses that go up. I’m now saving about 200-250 dollars a month vs if I rented a similar place. Fast forward another 10 year and one of two things will happen…

1. I’ll sell this place and walk away with more money in my pocket than my original down payment and having paid less to own in an average year than I would have paid for rent. The only repairs I put in for the last 10 years have been some new carpeting and a new hvac unit for a total cost of around 3500. 3500 split over 120 months I’ve been here means I invested an 30 extra bucks a month in this place…a bargain considering like I said I’m paying 200-250 a month less than rent right now.

2. I’ll still be living here mortgage free. Yeah I’ll have taxes and condo fees still, but by today’s numbers if I was mortgage free I’d be living here for 500-600 a month less than renting a unit in the same building.

Don’t get me wrong…I totally understand not owning if you plan on moving…owning really isn’t worth it unless you plan on staying put for probably at least 5 years…whatever appreciation you have or equity you build will just get eaten up by bank, lawyer, and realtor fees if you don’t stay put for a while…but what I would like to point it is…

Computernerd wrote:

Home owners might say I’m just p~~~ing my money away renting, but I don’t see it that way. I’m paying for free plumping and repairs, free amenities like swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms, etc.

Last time I checked…you didn’t have to pay for free stuff lol. I get all that s~~~ included with my condo fees. People that rent here get it all included in their rent…which they pay to their landlord who in turn uses a portion of it to pay condo fees on the unit that pay for that stuff. Its the same for every aspect of renting…you aren’t getting out of property taxes…your landlord is still paying them with the money you pay him for rent. In the end renting covers all the costs of home ownership plus someone skims a profit off you.

Yeah its easy to bitch about that 10,000 dollar roof you need once every thirty years…but the idea that the alternative is some guy instead skims a 500 dollar a month profit off you is somehow cheaper is absurd! You could just be smart about it and budget 100 bucks a month for repairs…it would still work out to less in the long term than what landlords make off you.

Like I said…I totally get its nowhere near worth buying if you plan on moving around in the near future…but long term owning is simply much cheaper than long term renting…its really just a matter of is it worth it for you to pay a premium for mobility. The only exception to this is if your concept of owning is refinancing and pulling equity out every 5-10 years and taking a mortgage to the grave…that is the most expensive option but lot’s of people love doing that lol.

[Just a ManParticipant 934]

You never really own your land, simply not pay taxes to learn that one. Feels like Feudalism-light to me.

Philosophy, the female repellent

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Freeman_K wrote:

This is imo a mindset question. For me owning debt free property translates to freedom and safety net.

From pure finance viewpoint though there are many calculators online where anyone can see based on his circumstances what is better. Since there are always few assumptions it comes down to personal preference

Nice calc…was playing around with it. When I punched in the original numbers I bought my condo with I’d have to find a place to rent for less than 444 a month if I planned on staying for 10 years. Punched it in for current numbers based on a lower rate refi and my current outstanding balance…I’d have to be renting a place for less than 180 a month.

To be fair this isn’t taking condo fees into account, which were about 200 a month when I bought and have since go up to 230 a month…so realistically I’d have to find a place to rent for 650 a month when I bought, which like I said earlier before playing with this calc, my costs when I first moved in here were about equal to rent as rent at the time I’d have estimated to be 650-700. With today’s numbers I’d have to be renting for less than 410 a month for it to be worth it…yet rents here have gone up to around 800-850 during that period.

These numbers are dead on…my mortgage right now is 410 a month that includes escrow for taxes, and my condo fees 230, which also includes home owners insurance…so I’m paying 640 a month to live here…but about 220 of that 640 is paying down the principal down on my loan each month…so that 410 figure pretty much what I would have calculated on my own just doing my own comparison!

If I pay it off over the next 5 years and sell it, during the 15 years I was here owning probably would have saved me about 2k per year vs renting averaged out over that time period, and thanks to equity built over the years by paying a mortgage rather than paying rent I’d probably walk away with a lump sum somewhere in the ballpark of 2-3x my initial down payment even if I sell it for less than I paid because I bought right at the peak. Same scenario if I managed to sell it for what I paid in 5 years, I’d walk away having lived cheaper than renting and quadrupling my original down payment. By historical standards I probably bought at the worst time EVER…if I had bought a year later the numbers for buying vs renting would be even better!

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Just a Man wrote:

You never really own your land, simply not pay taxes to learn that one. Feels like Feudalism-light to me.

What happens, you end up on the street just like you would if you refused to pay your more expensive rent?

[~BSParticipant 3266]

Computernerd wrote:

The thing with that is, even though there’s a sales tax on my soda, I don’t have to pay it monthly for the rest of my life.

ok…but you continuously buy food/soda because you need to consume them daily right? So aren’t you paying food related taxes for your entire life?

Or a car registration then. That tax is assessed yearly. Do you own a car?

Income taxes, those are assessed yearly. Do you work or own a business?

It’s like when people complain about their $40k bonus because the tax is such a huge burden to pay. In that case, are you better off avoiding the bonus to not pay the tax? Using the tax as a primary reason why not to do something is kind of a weak argument unless the tax is overly burdensome. I’m guessing that’s what you’re arguing here. It still makes no sense unless the property tax rates are high enough in your state to make it an issue. But, everyone’s situation is different.

"He didn't marry until now, so he won't ever do it. Think about it, why would a man like him ever marry? It's too late to catch him. " ~some cunt

[Author]

Posts