Introduction

[TwistParticipant]

I have been reading and learning here for a long time, finally decided to join so I can perhaps contribute going forward.

My story is sadly a common one. I’m in my 50s now, got married in my 20s, thought it was all about the words the priest had us agree to. We started with very little, and wound up with more than I ever imagined. Two daughters, healthy and the loves, and focus of my life.

I prided myself on rescuing xW from her evil mother. Angriest, most hateful person I had ever met. Actually, the hair-trigger anger seemed to run in that family (red flag missed), but I just figured they were nuts. Not going to let that toxicity impact OUR family, but I was wrong. The daily enmeshment never ceased, but at least I basked in the gratitude for years – “thank God for Twist, or I would have wound up like the rest of my family”. And I would feel good, and skip off with a feeling of accomplishment…

xW would go through periodic bouts of what I then called “level 10 events”, and what I now understand to be dysphoric rage (red flags again…). These would have unknown or trivial “triggers”, and would only end when she reached a cathartic peak where she would then collapse fully spent. Only explanation would be related to something evil MIL had done, no explanation of why it was directed at me, and never an apology. But – it would be over, and I would hope that this was the last time. And, at 105lbs, I was not really threatened by this. How badly can a 105lb woman hurt you????

Almost 2 decades married, she begins an obsessive “BFF” friendship with a toxic woman who made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Alcoholic, druggie husband, psych-challenged kids, and my xW somehow sees nirvana in all this, and gladly brings my daughters (about 9 & 12 then) into this bizarre world. I try expressing my concern, as do others, to no avail. Kids are treated to 365 day circus that I have no clue how to counter (it will get better, they’ll see the light…).

Spiral from bad to worse, no-fault arrives in town, she files for divorce, I have confidence that Court system will see the light, I now understand things like BPD that explain so much, etc. Five judges later, she has moved out with daughters to live in Lesbian community a few blocks from (new) lover, who resides in a series of virtual Hooplehouses.

I spent a fortune on legal fees, am on the hook for child support, and have now seen my daughters for less than 10 hours in the last four years. And nobody seems to f~~~ing care one bit.

To this day, I have never heard a word of honesty regarding xW’s inclinations and intentions. If I had not experienced it, I would never believe this. Never.

So now I understand it – generations of her FOO displayed classic signs of disordered personalities (BPD/NPD), she was severely abused, desperate to revisit her childhood attachment trauma. But none of this helps me – I have lost my family, my children, and there is nothing that I can do about it.

Childress sums it up so well: “A child’s rejection of a normal-range parent is clearly an attachment-related disorder (i.e., a trans-generational transmission of attachment trauma – mediated by the narcissistic/(borderline) personality traits of the allied parent).” But knowing all this won’t do a damn thing for you in the gynocentric world of family/divorce court.

MGTOW brothers. It is for simple survival in this environment. I wish someone had told me – and that I was smart enough to have listened.

[TaxGuyParticipant]

Welcome Home Twist. Nothing will teach you patience, humility, or just how bad humanity can be to someone like being a man going through a divorce. It’s a lesson I wish on no man.

To deny a man access to his children is one of the meanest thing a woman can do (assuming he isn’t abusing them, etc.). And especially to a man that she stood before God and claimed to love like no other. A man will beat you up, and those wounds will heal pretty quickly. A woman will inflict emotional pain that will take years, if ever, to heal. Time doesn’t go backward, and moments spent without your children are moments you don’t get back. And women will do that to a man without a second thought.

There is a special place in hell for women like your ex.

But, hey, screw her. Today is a new day and you are in a better place. Again, welcome home.

Order the good wine

[Anonymous 0]

Hi there twist. You are among brothers here. I too have the misfortune of having a cluster’B’ nightmare and my children are still very young. I worry. But I have found great comfort here and other places that MGTOW has led me to. My introduction shares my nightmare if you are interested.
I am very sorry to hear about your daughters estrangement from you. Did you notice similar ‘Cluster B’ behaviour in your children? If so, at what age were they when you first noticed this? I hope you reconcile with your children soon. Good luck!

[TwistParticipant]

PF,

Even professionals (sic) won’t dx most PDs in children under 18, and I certainly am not capable. But – they (now 17/20) both display the same arrogant/dismissive angers that their mother does. Is this a sign of the next generation to suffer this plague, or is it just them catching fleas? I don’t know.

My youngest has often displayed emotions that made me think “huh?”, and left me scratching my head. And this goes back to pre-teen days. Something was just “off”. But no, not a diagnosis.

Like I mentioned in my intro, I read a lot of what Childress writes. His description of a “cross generational coalition” is spot-on in my situation. If you have not read him, I encourage it. If you just read his July posts, it will be eye-opening. I have read about your experiences – the intro of the Boy Friend into the fray should be of concern. In my case the BFF (c~~~) played a key role. Key.

Cluster B and alienation often goes hand in hand. Once you find yourself on the other side of the “line”, it is very hard to heal. The kids find the easiest way to deal with their cognitive dissonance is to just avoid. Alienation is not a problem for them, it is a solution.

And yes, TaxGuy, there is a very special place in Hell for someone who would abuse their children in this most selfish of ways. I just can’t get over the evil, regardless of how much I come to understand. Pure evil.

[Anonymous 42]

Twist wrote:

How badly can a 105lb woman hurt you????

Placed squarely over a steak knife pressing into your chest? I’d say she could hurt you pretty damn seriously.

I enjoyed your post Twist, well written. I don’t understand what possesses a woman to grab her family and run into the flames of hell? I can only say it’s all to common! I’ve seen it happen several times live in front of my face, so many men shredded without one ounce of recognition or empathy from the system.

Avoid modern women and avoid a life of endless (thrust upon you) mistakes. Women no longer listen to men, they don’t even hear us, they’re too busy in their arrogance living mistake after mistake. It’s a vicious cycle no sane man should take part in, he should flee and live a life of perpetual peace…

[Mr_WhiteParticipant 48]

Great, simple mantra there MG-Tower:
Avoid Modern Women.
Welcome Twist.

Let go or be dragged -Zen proverb

[NeroParticipant 1466]

@twist: Welcome, brother! I too married into an emotionally toxic family. Although my wife was the best of them and truly wanted to be different, she ended up mimicking some of the same disgusting behaviors. It’s a chain that is hard to break apparently. She has cut off all but her father, and is still in therapy. I wish her the best, but I am too concerned about my own well being to stay with her.

[TwistParticipant]

Thanks to all for the warm welcome. Being Friday and all, I’ll toast to you later, but will try to make it to 5:00.

Nero,

The toxic family thing is so much like NAWALT – they are all crazy, but Cupcake is different. Nope.

30+ years ago a friend who knew xW said “Dude, I know you are having fun, but have you met the family? The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.” So that was my Red Pill warning, I guess, and I ignored in my ignorance, and to my peril. Too bad he didn’t deliver that with a 2×4 attached…

You say your W (?) is in therapy – that is very rare if there is a PD involved. One of xW’s recurring mantras was “never tell a crazy person they are crazy”. She refused any outside agency – psych, clergy, mediation, etc. Just didn’t want anyone calling her crazy.

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

Welcome to The Source. Thanks for a very well written, and thoughtful introduction.
I’ve never married, so stories like yours are just difficult to wrap my head around, but they are all too common.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[NeroParticipant 1466]

Twist wrote:

You say your W (?) is in therapy – that is very rare if there is a PD involved. One of xW’s recurring mantras was “never tell a crazy person they are crazy”. She refused any outside agency – psych, clergy, mediation, etc. Just didn’t want anyone calling her crazy.

She is only doing it because she had lost SMV and I did not. Not only that, but I had a significant ex come back into my life like a s~~~ storm. She did not want to lose Chad and resources at the same time. I am her prize. Back when she was hot to f~~~ing trot, I was the one who needed help not her. So, as a last ditch effort, she is willing.

[Anonymous 0]

Twist wrote:

My youngest has often displayed emotions that made me think “huh?”, and left me scratching my head. And this goes back to pre-teen days. Something was just “off”. But no, not a diagnosis.

I understand what you are saying and I understand why professionals would not go there with young children.
I suppose I am worried. I know that Cluster B’s could be inheritable and the professional jury is still out.
Anyway I’ve been watching my two like a hawk since not long after birth. Not really knowing what to look for but I suppose looking for and indeed trying to foster a sense of insight and empathy in the children, which Cluster B’s lack in badly.
The mummy monster has another slightly older daughter. I was I very significant part of her life from when she was 2.5 until 7 years old.
At least two things about her I found strange. She never bonded with me. As a teacher of young children I get children bonding with me all the time. Running up and hugging me for example. Sometimes I have to implement personal safety strategies to make sure these children understand my personal boundaries.
Mummy monsters older child never ever sought out comfort from me. Whenever I tried to initiated a hug, it was always limp and she always kept it brief. I thought when the other two children came along they would show her how she could also be with me. My two would be attached to me like limpets (still are)
I did try and think if it was my behaviour, or if she was jealous or whatever. But which ever way I looked at it and whatever I did, she was not interested in bonding with me.
Once I saw her trip over on her own shoe-laces. I saw that she saw exactly how she had tripped, but she turned around and snarled in a most nasty way at her younger sister.
My two seem to both be very attached and bonded. Both have demonstrated a strong sense of justice and fairness and understanding for children their age. I am very relieved at this. I would be very worried if one of them was showing similar signs as their older sister.
But one cant be sure. I suppose I will be the amateur research scientist tracking the lives of one bona-fide psychopath and three of her offspring.

[The Manipulated ManParticipant 1856]

Greetings Twist,

You Introduction is excellent and the replies given are great.

We are from the same generation and I am too familiar with most aspects of your story.

It is a dreadful story that is too common now.

You are definitely not alone.

Twist wrote:

seen my daughters for less than 10 hours in the last four years. And nobody seems to f~~~ing care one bit.

For over a hundred years, men have lost our legal rights to our children. No matter how much time, money, work, and love a man gives these days, his children are really never his.

In the good old days, when women weren’t allowed to vote, men kept the home, children, and the fruits of our labor after a divorce.

Twist wrote:

…Two daughters, healthy and the loves, and focus of my life.

Even though you have been savagely violated and saddled with over a decade of child support ahead of you, there can be light at the end of the tunnel, if you can focus on taking care of yourself.

Here are some observations or sad truths about the Blue Pill path that you were on:

All of the divorced men I know who have contact with their daughters are ALWAYS BROKE and involved with “rescues.”

Even with some retirement incomes, all of these guys are forced to take on miserable jobs to pay for their darling daughter’s “emergencies.”

The Blue Pill men who are still married with daughters are the craziest, greediest, and most disruptive bully’s that I know. They are peculiarly aggressive and will stab another man in the back to make an extra buck. They make jobs worse than they have to be.

Twist wrote:

It is for simple survival in this environment. I wish someone had told me – and that I was smart enough to have listened.

In time, you may remember that you probably were warned multiple times and “told” about the risks of marriage for a man. Those statistics were readily available and discussed openly in the popular culture of our generation.

The hardest part may be the realization that you dismissed warnings because your sources seemed to be a bunch of miserable old f~~~s and losers who were just complaining.

Don’t beat yourself up about not being “smart enough” in your twenties which is a time when most of us were “young, dumb, and full of cum.”

Yes, you have been forced off of the plantation and are now out in the cold.

And nobody cares about a used up slave in Hive controlled communities.

But, now you have an opportunity to step back and see a silver lining in your new circumstances:

You have many years ahead of you to learn how to live as a free man in a new MGTOW frontier which is your choice.

I have been divorced for over fifteen years and it is wonderful.

Twist wrote:

she has moved out with daughters to live in Lesbian community a few blocks from (new) lover, who resides in a series of virtual Hooplehouses.

How repugnant!

I look forward to reading more of your posts.

What happens when a man finally comprehends the cold and calculating thoughts that are going through a woman's mind, while her eyes are brimming with tears?

[Anonymous 0]

Thanks for the wise words Manipulated Man. (even though its not my thread)

[TwistParticipant]

MM,

Thanks for the welcome and color. When you say “In time, you may remember that you probably were warned multiple times and “told” about the risks of marriage for a man. Those statistics were readily available and discussed openly in the popular culture of our generation.”, well – this is what really

never

happened.

And is exactly what can be changed about today. I got married in 1990 – I don’t recall any significant message at that time about the dangers of marriage, No-fault was not the law of the land, it was still the accepted thing to get married and start a family. I never recall any warning about what this might expose me to. (short of the above-mentioned warning about the psycho family I was about to adhere to).

Today, knowing how the court system has evolved (sic) the most important thing we can do is educate the young about the dangers/risks of marriage. Women love to get married, they just don’t like to be married. And then get to leave with cash and gifts. Simple.

[The Manipulated ManParticipant 1856]

Red Pill awakening and the removal of decades of Blue Pill indoctrination is a process which takes time.

This process is nurtured in an environment of peace and tranquility.

This MGTOW web site has been the most amazing catalyst for my MGTOW awakening and the removing of the shackles of Blue pill mind control.

After I was financially raped and endured the following decade of torture by witnessing my son’s abuse by the state and the woman I had loved, I continued to behave in ways that were not in my best interests. Much of it was like being on an “automatic piolet” that I was unaware of at the time.

When peace and tranquility finally became a part of my life and my mind was able to handle more truth, thinks came up in my dreams. They were memories that were buried deep.

At some point, all of the numerous warnings that were given to me about marriage came up to the surface and I was forced to confront them.

The shame and self-loathing that I entertained afterwards was just like a continuation of the cruelty I suffered throughout my life, especially administered by the state and my ex. The difference was that I was now abusing myself.

Men today learn how to hate themselves from birth and it is a sick deeply ingrained automatic response.

The healing begins once we are free from the influences of women.

It is my understanding that the suppressed memories and denial was a result of the “Soul Mate” bulls~~~ which permeates every aspect of our culture.
I had dismissed all of the divorce statistics and personal accounts because I believed that they did not apply to me.
There were also other factors like spiritual pride and an overinflated appreciation of my cleverness, luck, intelligence, and masculinity. What a guy, what a guy!

Nevertheless, the belief in “Soul Mates” is basically a religion and it permeates every aspect of our culture. The movie/book, “Pride and Prejudice,” is one example.

Here is another observation: It is difficult to admit that this type of proselytization, like in the book/ movie mentioned above, still effects my mind and heart, even after everything that has happened to me and in spite of everything that I have learned. I suspect that it is similar to the programming that a child has for his mother’s approval.

Even after suffering a divorce, men are at risk by their “Soul Mate” indoctrination. We too often believe that our Ex-wife was a special (nut) case, and our next “Relations~~~” with a woman will be sober, cautious, and different.
Miraculously discovering our “Soul Mate” gets transformed into the belief in “Unicorns.”

Our belief in special women, Unicorns/ Soul Mates, prevents men from seeing the ugly truth about “Woman’s Nature.” It prevents us from seeing the real world arounds us and causes us to deny the alarms.

Our ancestors understood the dangers and power of “Woman’s Nature.” Here is an example:

What happens when a man finally comprehends the cold and calculating thoughts that are going through a woman's mind, while her eyes are brimming with tears?

[TwistParticipant]

MM, I get it. Mom was German, not affectionate, blah blah blah. I went for it. Sukka ass sukka. But who knows when they are in their 20s?

It’s not women’s nature that is the problem, it is the gynocentric ecosystem that enables their psychotic behavior.

If I did not live it, I would never believe it. I thought all those guys sitting at the bar bitching were just angry drunks.

Nope.

Thank you for a great response.

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

Warmest Welcome Twist.

Twist wrote:

It’s not women’s nature that is the problem, it is the gynocentric ecosystem that enables their psychotic behavior.

Agreed. Women have always been like this since the dawn of time. It’s just their nature.

Our contemporary society just enhances this nature, endorses and condones poor decisions. My ex wife is not an evil person, she just performed evil actions that are condoned and rewarded by society and the legal system. I was powerless to stop her.

100+ years ago, a man could guide his family and stop such nonsense from his spouse (and no I am not condoning violent or abusive actions). Yet, if a man simply objects to his wife’s behavior she will leave and divorce rape him.

Twist wrote:

If I did not live it, I would never believe it. I thought all those guys sitting at the bar bitching were just angry drunks.

Same here. Luckily, I learned my lesson after a short marriage without children. Blind devotion to my ex-wife blew-up in my face. Such is life. I am confident you will survive this. As a word of warning – all women are like this, everywhere in the world. The risk is not worth the “reward”.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[TwistParticipant]

“Blind devotion to my ex-wife…”

Exactly. Because that is what we were supposed to do. It was right there in the vows – devotion.

And that blindness is what will kill you. You see the youth gang, you cross the street, the hustler – you send him on his way. You install an alarm system, buy a house in a “safe” neighborhood. Maybe even drive a Volvo.

We do so much to preserve and protect. Who would guess that the one you exchanged vows with, the one who sleeps next to you for thousands (6,000+) of nights would be where the greatest danger in you life would come from?

If a crack addict rolls you, hits you over the head with a pipe – well you hate that person. But you can understand it on some level. When you are hurt even worse by the one person who swore to be the polar opposite? That is when you understand the nature of women. And what evil truly is.

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

I did question the whole vows thing near the end.

Her response –

” Oh, that’s ok – I don’t believe in my vows anymore. ”

Like it was so f~~~ing elementary, and in a way I guess it was.

What a c~~~ dressed up in a pretty little package.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

Unfortunately your story is not that uncommon and many men go through the same thing everyday. By posting your experience you are helping others from not making the same mistake and I thank you for that. I agree with you that the children have probably picked up this behavior from the mother since she never allowed you to interact with them for so long. Single mothers transfer their thought process to the children and over time they too can develop these disorders. I was sad to read that this has happened I hope things work out for both you and your children. But remember at the end of the day you did the right thing by leaving her and getting a divorce you have to look out for yourself first as no one else will. Life can only get better for you now that you have had a few years away from your ex wife and now that your children are beginning to become adults perhaps you still have time to help shape them into better women as they grow. Remember they are both still young and they still have time where they might listen and try to change but as time goes by as we know from our experience and age it will be very hard to change them once they get older and into their mid twenties. We are here to help and I wish you the best of luck with your daughters.

[Author]

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