Imagine what it will be like…

[braininavatParticipant 95]

It is going to take a long time for MGTOW to penetrate into our feminized culture, with its feminized norms and its pathologicalization of masculinity, but it will happen, if only to a certain degree. At first it will only be a few rare outliers, but imagine what it will be like when the first public figure steps up to a microphone and openly announces to an audience of millions, “I am a man going my own way…”

This will be a powerful and catalyzing moment. It will be like the social shift when it become acceptable for gays to come out of the closet. And the parallel is interesting. As a demographic group, gay men are incredibly successful. Take a look at the statistics some time. Gay men don’t spend their money buying dinners for pouting women and they don’t waste their time trying to placate the same women, with the “Baby, baby, what’s wrong? Why aren’t you happy?” routine. Men going their own way will similarly benefit from this gradual improvement in socioeconomic status and time invested in things that matter instead of psychic vampires and financial leeches.

I think that the peak of misandry (as identified by “The Futurist” blogger in The Misandry Bubble) will roughly coincide with rising MGTOW consciousness on the part of men, with this consciousness helped along by particularly blatant and systematic misandry. Then when the moment comes along when a public figure identifies himself as MGTOW, the shift will be decisive.

At the very moment when women seem able to dictate any whim and be assured of the support and complicity of society at large, men will be fact be gaining in power, wealth, and knowledge. The most deluded women will further marginalize themselves by continuing to believe themselves right in every detail, even as they dig themselves ever deeper into a hole. When large numbers of men become conscious of this shift, women will quickly find themselves displaced from a position of arbitrary power and will be confused as to how to respond. The value of the only commodity that they have to sell will plummet to near zero. An economic re-balancing will come about, and women who have lived their entire lives with a sense of unquestioned entitlement will find that this re-balancing leaves them little with which to bargain. Honey traps, crying, shaming, hissy fits, the silent treatment — the bottom will drop out of all these manipulations.

When men are MGTOW on principle, and not merely because it comes naturally to them, they will know what they are doing and why they are doing it. Men will learn that they will have to create new institutions so as not to be forced under threat of law to pay incompetent women as much as competent men, or be forced to hire women who can’t do the job. Parallel institutions will emerge (like the “parallel polis” of Vaclav Benda) that simply bypass corrupt, feminized institutions.

I think that this scenario is much more likely than the “fempocalypse” scenario outlined by Karen Straughan and further developed by Stardusk. One could think of the above as a scenario that might hijack the trends that could bring about a fempocalypse.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

I think the “peak” of misandry has already passed or at least begun to level off. This is because women and feminists are feeling a pushback much bigger than they anticipated. They are aware of MGTOW and the implications and know if they keep it up, they will taking their own garbage to the dump while men sit back and relax for a change.

Now I am not suggesting they are not more toxic than ever, but the presence of Men telling them to p~~~ off is really noticeable now. A few years ago it wasn’t so. Take a look at this example: EHarmony Advice: 15 Reasons (NOT) to date a single mother

Scroll down and take a look at the comments from men. They are waking up and calling women out on their BS. You would have never seen that ten years ago. While the media is still pumping these stupid “man up” articles by the thousands, men everywhere are pointing and laughing and telling them to knock it off – because it’s not going to work anymore. The shift is already noticeable.

As part of our research, we also paid attention to Yahoo Answers where men would seek advice in the “gender and women’s studies” section. Not 2-3 years ago, this was a feminized wasps nest. I’m not kidding. A man would type anything a woman didn’t like, it (and his account) would be systematically deleted. We actually had 50 – yes FIFTY – accounts deleted for no reason and without explanation – watching the kinds of questions men would ask, and even offering answers on all kinds of subjects from Dating to marriage to “why are women such nagging bitches?”. The section is no longer called “women’s studies” and we believe we DIRECTLY had a hand in that (we will explain this later).

They were absolute NAZI bitches running that show. There were women who called themselves “Andrea Dworkin” and they would post some of the most man-hating anti-male garbage I’ve ever read online. I couldn’t believe it. They would amass dozens of thumbs up…. but anything pro-male was thumbed down and mysteriously vanished. Just NUTS!! Girls would ask questions and they would answer with “just use him for his money” and “If you divorce him you get paid even when you have an affair- talk to your attorney. He cannot win, you have him by the b~~~~” etc,….

Then we showed up.

Within less than a year, the feminist c~~~roaches were virtually gone. One by one , we picked them off and humiliated them with links, and the type of videos and articles that women really don’t want other men to see. Suddenly were getting more thumbs up and “best answers” from men with some of the highest ratings. Suddenly, there were MORE MEN who were participating in the “gender studies” section than women. We have emails from many of them asking us to start a men’s interest website. The shift was remarkable. (if you are wondering why we bothered, it was because the questions from married men were such great material).

Western society is still such a wasps nest, but women are starting to get very nervous – they are realizing they have over leveraged by a huge margin. The sinking of the Costa Concordia (2012) almost exactly 100 years after the Titanic told a very different story than “women and children first”. Even the Captain jumped the ship and let women sink or swim.

They are sensing something is coming and it’s not going to be pretty.
And feminism has really let them down.

A “Fempocalypse”? Perhaps. But the next 20 years are going to be very interesting to watch.
Enjoy the decline. Because we have truth on our side.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[VileNordParticipant 766]

I don’t know what the state of misandry and misogyny will be 20 years from now. However, I don’t hold out hope of returning to a “golden age” of male wisdom-centric society. Democracy, especially in the west, requires a perpetual morphing of the zeitgeist and its predictability is non-existent. With my current pool of knowledge, I speculate that men will have to be quite literally locked up in cages before we, as an entire sex, have the wool removed from our lizard eyes. Feminists have already created a world that is more hospitable to their hysterical whims, and I see no indications that they will be stopped from continuing on in their absurdity. I acknowledge that more men and women are seeing feminism for the disaster that it really is, but I have reservations about any amount of efficacy this will have in halting the feminist agenda. Our numbers are far too few and our message far too extreme for us to induce a culture wide shift anytime soon. If the egregiousness of the feminist movement’s transgressions thus far have not caused their own demise, then they will continue to get worse until they do.

Most people have labeled me a pessimist and a cynic. But I view myself as an objectivist; in all arenas of sociology. I review the evidence that we can all see and I then actively listen to both side of an argument on all topics relating to this evidence. Thus, the conclusions I arrive at are not facts nor delusions, but rather informed and calculated assumptions about what the truth probably is. I’m not going to get into epistemology and rant for twenty pages about the nature of truth, but I am educated enough to know that I am quenching my thirst with as little bias as possible.

This is why I believe this forum to be a worthwhile investment of my time. So far, the vast majority of posts relay their author’s intelligence to be substantially higher than the general public’s. I know I can be preachy and bombastic, but I genuinely welcome rebuttals and insights from other people. I’m the most humble know-it-all you will ever meet, I swear it!

@braininavat

Greetings from the hipster land of Portland, OR!

Lust for comfort suffocates the soul

[braininavatParticipant 95]

RE: KeyMaster

I read the article you linked to and the comments on it. I assume these responses were organized, like the effort you described in your remarks above. I’m actually quite surprised that you made headway under these circumstances, and I would have guessed that they would just keep deleting accounts until you gave up.

Also watched the Youtube video about the happiness gender gap. Perhaps refusing to “man up” and enjoying the freedom of remaining an unrepentant “man child” is good for male happiness. More MGTOW means more happy men.

I think that the awareness of shifting social trends is primarily on the part of women who consciously think of themselves as feminists, and therefore make an effort to keep themselves apprised of political and social developments. If they read Jezebel every day and talk to friends reading feminist materials, they will be aware of the MRM and maybe also MGTOW, though only as threat and without comprehending the source of the shift.

Paul Elam and Roosh V both have the remarkable honor of being named by the SPLC as sources of “hate,” again, without bothering to try to understand, but this shows a certain visibility, and people who are hyper-aware of political issues and follow stuff like this will know about it. Others will be clueless. I felt a little sorry for the traditionalists commenting on the EHarmony advice piece, because they obviously don’t know anything about ideological gender feminism or about the emerging MRM/MGTOW critique of it. They don’t even comprehend what the debate is about, so they are a very long way from understanding that a social shift is in the works.

So, much “consciousness raising” remains to be done. Some feminists are worried, but that’s because feminists had their own “consciousness raising” back in the 60s and 70s. They are looking for opposition, and will organize and use their established fund-raising network to try to nip change in the bud. If they can present themselves as embattled, that’s a fund raising opportunity. (Fund raising is also an SPLC specialty, as this is a “charity” almost exclusively motivated by growing its endowment. http://rkeefe57.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/splc-recordbreaking-bloat-2/) And from the video on the happiness gender gap, we can see how any statistic can be twisted around: women aren’t unhappy because of their staggering sense of entitlement or their overweening expectations; women are unhappy because they have to work so hard.

[braininavatParticipant 95]

RE: VileNord

About a past “Golden Age” I recommend Stardusk’s video “Patriarchy is dead. Send flowers.” One of the great merits of both Stardusk and Barbarossa is their near total rejection of traditionalism, which gives their critique an extra and interesting edge. This is what drew me in. Until I started listening to them, the only critique I had heard of feminism was the traditionalist critique, and this was uninteresting. The MGTOW critique of feminism and feminized society is distinctive, but easily mistaken for traditionalism, so those making the critique need to go out of their way in distancing themselves from traditionalism.

“If the egregiousness of the feminist movement’s transgressions thus far have not caused their own demise, then they will continue to get worse until they do.” Karen Straughan and Stardusk have argued that this demise will come about as a catastrophic collapse of social institutions; this is the “fempocalypse.” I think it will come about gradually, with the ground shifting even as true believers convince themselves that nothing has changed. KeyMaster, above, thinks the shift has already started. You suggest that things have to get much worse before things get better. I think I am in the middle on the question. I don’t think that the shift has really gotten started, but I also do not think that the status quo can remain unchanged. As you imply, people will put up with horrific institutions that make their life miserable for a long time before they will be willing to actually risk a change to these institutions.

By the way, I’m also in the hipsterland of Portland.

[VileNordParticipant 766]

@braininavat

Well stated! I wish that the prospect for an anti-feminist paradigm, society wide, wasn’t so grim and that I could hold out hope for the cultural shift within my lifetime. Until men are physically being held down by women (or the threat thereof), men will not forgo their natural inclinations to love her and her sugar walls.

Lust for comfort suffocates the soul

[KeymasterKeymaster]

@braaininavat +1

Thank you for recommending “Patriarchy is Dead Send Flowers”. Hadn’t seen it until now.

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. “Bubbles” are only visible in hindsight, they are not apparent when you are in the middle of them. “Women against feminism” is an exploding hashtag and wasn’t around a few years ago. This is only one reason why I think it has passed.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[braininavatParticipant 95]

RE: KeyMaster

I don’t disagree with you, and I especially agree that “markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”

That being said, many MGTOWs have observed that a lot of the chicks claiming to be MRA or “against feminism” or interested in men’s issues is simply a new tactic for attention getting and validation. Also, hashtag activism is cheap, as many have pointed out. When it comes to a principled rejection of privilege or benefits — like the English House of Lords voting itself out of power, which it actually did, or so-called women against feminism, who almost never renounce their female privileges — it is another matter.

Once again, that being said, there is no way to predict the possibility of (not to mention the arrival of) a “tipping point” past which social change occurs very rapidly and takes a lot of people by surprise. But what constitutes a “fast” social change is partially a matter of perspective. One can look at the recent acceptance of gay marriage and conclude that this social shift took place at blinding speed, but if one dates the shift from Stonewall or before, it is a decades-long social process.

RE: VileNord

“…the prospect for an anti-feminist paradigm…”

If Stardusk and others are correct that it is not feminism per se that is the problem, but rather contemporary social institutions that have given impunity to female behavior, then an anti-feminist paradigm alone is insufficient to make a change in the circumstances of men. It could, however, mark a symbolic shift that makes a social shift possible.

[VileNordParticipant 766]

@braininavat

an anti-feminist paradigm alone is insufficient to make a change in the circumstances of men. It could, however, mark a symbolic shift that makes a social shift possible.

Thanks for the clarification! This is of course what I was referring to, I just get swept up in blanket terminology from time to time. When the zeitgeist announces that the tenets of feminism have run their course, social engineering will reverse course and repairing the damage will be allowed to take place.

Lust for comfort suffocates the soul

[MajorHeelsParticipant 47]

to answer;

the future really is; up to us.

One man, becomes two, two becomes three and then we become more.

Once a critical mass of men, simply “lock the gates” to what women want (which is you, doing as she wants)

We take back ALL of the power and slowly but surely, there is NO other options available than to change to be forced.

[ManyNamesManyTitlesParticipant 24]

“So far, the vast majority of posts relay their author’s intelligence to be substantially higher than the general public’s.”

Indeed i agree with the level of most’s “intelligence” here so far. I also might be moving back to the land of hipsters aka Portland OR.

[VileNordParticipant 766]

<cite>@manynamesmanytitles said:</cite>
Indeed i agree with the level of most’s “intelligence” here so far. I also might be moving back to the land of hipsters aka Portland OR.

Welcome!

You put the word intelligence in quotations lol 😉

Intelligent company, whether it be the entire forum or only a handful, is a refreshing oasis from the drudgery outside. I’m certainly not any better a person simply by merit of genetic endowments, it just gets lonely sometimes. It is always lovely to converse with fellows who can relate. Portland is filled to the brim with pseudo-intellectuals waxing poetic about narcissistic nothings. I would welcome any MGTOW!

Lust for comfort suffocates the soul

[MGTOWBostonParticipant 6]

really nice to read that.  i breathe easier after reading it.  whatever arrangement the sexes come to, it must take into account the realities of our respective natures – as SD says.  I hope that we go somewhere good, I mean, we as a species were never intended to get this far, to peel back the curtain and see what it really is.  I hope we can tear down the curtain forever (hopefully).

[rainydaykidParticipant 42]

Well, personally, I have been talking to close friends over the past few weeks, about this subject and website in particular. I’ve also brought up the subject to random people in bars, and they agree with many of the philosophies of MGTOW, so I think it is more so than it appears. I meet all kinds of people that got badly screwed in marriages and relations~~~s. My last ex was that way, she finally pushed me into it after years of being a semi white knight, though all along I felt marriage was a scam job. It helped solidify ideas and feelings I’ve had for years.

[Author]

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