I’m not convinced

[El CidParticipant 6]

I may be what you call a blue-pill man. You can call me whatever you want, but I’ve seen the red pill and I don’t believe the hype.

First let me tell you about my situation, so you can see where my perspective is coming from. I’m a 38-year-old single man (never married), and rent a house with a roommate and her three girls. She fits the whole stereotype of the entitled, carousel-riding woman; each girl has a different father, and I’ve seen her chew up and spit out boyfriends en masse. And she and I are pretty good friends. At the point you might legitimately wonder if I’m gay, but no. Just socially awkward and not good with women — in retrospect, this is probably just as well.

I just finished listening to a video called On Bachelors and Fathers by Barbarossa. I don’t mean to pick on him or his video; this is just something I see as part of a larger trend with MGTOW content. It looks to me like grains of truth are being taken and blown way out of proportion.

If you haven’t seen the video, it talks about a man who works long hours and gets little time with his child. When he actually is home, his wife uses passive-aggression to undermine his relationship with his son. This is an utterly soul-destroying commentary. But it is also literally nothing like my childhood or that of anyone I knew growing up. It is also nothing like most of my neighbours. My dad enjoyed walks in the park with me, and taught me how to use his camera and develop photos in his black-and-white darkroom. At my friends’ houses, I usually saw one parent just as much as the other (except for one of my friends who’s dad was a truck driver and always gone).

Today, when my roommate’s girls go across the street to play, I see the other kids with their dad just as often as their mom, either going out for a ride or playing with the sprinkler in the front yard. I even occasionally see emphasis on the importance of fathers in mainstream media. Just recently, I heard about a father-daughter dance on the radio, and one of the radio hosts gush about how happy she was to see a young woman spend more time with her father and how valueable that was.

I can go to work and hear the guys talk about what they did with their kids. During a period in my life when I was a regular churchgoer, I remember whole families doing things together. Now I grant that mothers are a clear majority at public parks, but by no means are men absent. I still see a significant number of fathers and children there.

Canadian law on parental leave is gender-neutral, and I know two guys at work (a machine shop, not many women) who took a couple weeks off when they had new babies being born. Both times we took a collection around the shop floor and came up with a few hundred dollars — enough to take the edge off the absence from work.

I believe Barbarossa. when he gives this account of a marginalized, alienated father. I see how bad it is and I know the problem exists. But I don’t believe that fathers are being kept away from their kids en masse. This looks to me like a gross exaggeration, and I’m just not buying it.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

I’ll give you a +1 for your name and your honesty. I’d suggest you read and learn. At the end of the day you’ll have to make your own decisions.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Anonymous 42]

Man the harpoons! It’s a tuna troll! Couldn’t get past the first line! Monk called it!
P.S. Anyone that spits out red pills in our faces should quartersawed and chucked into the chipper!
Hey Keymaster, It’s gonna be a long night!

[El CidParticipant 6]

I had a feeling I’d get some flack for this. I see the same evidence that you do. I see men largely being ignored or getting the shaft in numerous ways. But I don’t always see cause and effect the same way.

I’ll never, ever get married for reasons that can be found right here. And I have no doubts about the unfairness of family law and criminal law when a man gets accused of abuse or sex crimes. But just the same, I’ll call it out when I see something that looks a little one-sided.

Would you rather have an echo chamber where nobody ever has a dissenting opinion?

[Anonymous 42]

El Cid wrote:

I’ve seen the red pill and I don’t believe the hype.

Your words, not mine!
As far as an echo chamber, the canyon of feminism has been screaming obscenities for the past 50+ years, perhaps you’re a little to young to remember when I was “justifiably” a MAN’S WORLD! You reek of feminism! Wash up, or go away……..

[MecklotParticipant 608]

El Cid wrote:

I see how bad it is and I know the problem exists. But I don’t believe that fathers are being kept away from their kids en masse. This looks to me like a gross exaggeration, and I’m just not buying it.

I’m going to be nice here…

Spend more time researching MGTOW, the red pill, and read some firsthand horror stories from divorced men. Maybe then you’ll see why we see the world in a red pill light.

You acknowledge that the problem exists, which is why we red pill men walk away from society and give a middle finger to the women who use the courts to steal the children and everything the man owns. We solve the problem by not giving anything of value to women in the first place.

[CaliParticipant 753]

Dude, it sounds to me more like you ARE a red-piller to a degree, but simply don’t agree with the MRM. I respect your right to believe what you want, and I also respect your personal experience, but I would suggest that instead of simply saying “this is how it is in my neighborhood, therefore I do not agree with your statistics”, you should do more research into the reason behind the Men’s Rights Movement.

To all the other MGTOW members who posted above: gentlemen, I would suggest that we hold off on calling troll in order to give OP a chance to increase his knowledge, as despite the fact that OP is not yet willing to believe the simple statistics available, it would seem as if he happens to live in an area which has so far been sheltered from the effects of third wave feminism. Perhaps he grew up in a small rural town, or something and has little experience with the effects of feminism aside from his previously mentioned roommate. I, for one, would hate to kick a man out if we are not at least 90% certain that he’s a female or a complete mangina, and I would classify this man as “in transition”.

Basically, keep the harpoons trained on him, but let’s give him a chance to decide whether or not he fits in with the crew before we kick him.

Just a misogynist virgin hiding away in his mother's basement. Nothing to see here...

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Ok so you’re not convinced.
Why are you pretending like it’s a sales pitch and anyone is trying to convince you?

Did you click a MGTOW advertisement? Did you see a billboard that said:
“BUY THIS MGTOW BURGER!!! MMM IT”S DELICIOUS!!!
ALL YOU CAN PUKE FOR $2.99!!!! HURRY WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!!!”

Did you see a TV commercial that shoved in your face:
“BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL!!! MGTOW 50% OFF!! HURRY NOW!!!”

• Did you get an offer for a MGTOW credit card in the mail with 0% financing until 2019??
• Did anyone try to sell you a MGTOW car claiming you HAVE to buy a piece of s~~~ hybrid because you’re “saving the planet”??
• Did a MGTOW come to your wedding and call you a stupid motherf~~~ing idiot?

No.

MGTOW is not a sales pitch. Don’t you get it?
It’s the rest of the world that’s trying to “convince” you..

See the difference? Watch the woman in this video.. Look how hard she is mustering up tears for the camera blaming “absentee fathers” for the troubles of millions of kids.. SHE put on the show, pal. And she failed so miserably at it, the SECOND we called her out, she removed it from youtube.

Heres’ a better one for you. WE’RE not convinced. How do you like that.
It’s not about YOU being convinced. MGTOW are not convinced.
See how totally backwards your approach is?

El Cid wrote:

She fits the whole stereotype of the entitled, carousel-riding woman; each girl has a different father, and I’ve seen her chew up and spit out boyfriends en masse

Are you sure it’s a “stereotype”? Stereotypes exist for a REASON.

El Cid wrote:

It looks to me like grains of truth are being taken and blown way out of proportion.

It’s the LIES like “rape culture” that are taken and blown way out of proportion.
Truth doesn’t get nearly enough air time.

Are you going through life with your eyes open?
Or are you, like……. using the force.

I once told a guy I work with that his wife was f~~~ing another guy we both worked with. He said the same f~~~ing thing ” I’m not convinced” and made me out to be a great big f~~~ing asshole for telling him the truth. I wasn’t trying to convince him of anything. His wife was trying to convince him of the “good wife” lie.

The red pill doesn’t politely tap you on the shoulder.
It bonks you over the head like a sledgehammer.

It’s not even interested in knowing your opinion on it.
The truth doesn’t require your acceptance in the first place.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[El CidParticipant 6]

Okay, okay. I came out swinging pretty hard, and I apologize. If I didn’t think MGTOW was a good philosophy, I wouldn’t be here. But I also believe in being self-critical, and trying to be as objective as possible. I generally don’t like subjective terms like “most” or “some”. I’d rather find hard numbers when I can.

Just as an aside, I saw my dad’s best friend get dragged through court on a false rape allegation, and I saw his life savings get wasted just defending himself in court. He was convicted, and eventually got the conviction overturned and even somewhat put his life back together. I have no illusions about how bad things are for men.

As a rule, I’ve always believed that the most important vigilance is against yourself. If you believe yourself to be part of a group, you should be the strongest critic of your own group. But again, I apologize for coming on a bit strong.

Mecklot wrote:

El Cid wrote:

I see how bad it is and I know the problem exists. But I don’t believe that fathers are being kept away from their kids en masse. This looks to me like a gross exaggeration, and I’m just not buying it.

I’m going to be nice here…

Spend more time researching MGTOW, the red pill, and read some firsthand horror stories from divorced men. Maybe then you’ll see why we see the world in a red pill light.

[Spank The MisandristsParticipant 2308]

El Cid wrote:

this is just something I see as part of a larger trend with MGTOW content. It looks to me like grains of truth are being taken and blown way out of proportion.

Way out of proportion? How can you say it’s way out of proportion when statistics show that divorce rate is 40-50% and over 70% of all the divorces are initiated by women?

El Cid wrote:

But it is also literally nothing like my childhood or that of anyone I knew growing up.

Just because you are the exception to the rule, it doesn’t necessarily mean the rule doesn’t exist. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, also times change, what you experienced when you were a kid is no longer the reality.

El Cid wrote:

Today, when my roommate’s girls go across the street to play, I see the other kids with their dad just as often as their mom, either going out for a ride or playing with the sprinkler in the front yard.

Where is the dad of your roommate’s girls then? And how many of those dads you saw had only slept 3 hours the day before to provide food on the table, make their partner happy by earning enough money and helping her with say 99% of the housework? It’s much more than meets the eyes, even the most evil murderer in human history had done something good at one point, just because you happened to catch that moment, it doesn’t necessarily make that person a good person does it?

El Cid wrote:

Canadian law on parental leave is gender-neutral

Just because it’s neutral on the paper, it doesn’t mean it’s neutral in the real world, does it? Yes men do have the freedom to leave, but how many can afford to do it? How many can come home and tell their wives: look I am going to stop making money from now on, it’s all on you. I will take care of the kid without losing her, how many?

The day women will stay on Titanic to make sure that all men are saved before leaving the ship, come back to me with your neutral law.

El Cid wrote:

But I don’t believe that fathers are being kept away from their kids en masse. This looks to me like a gross exaggeration, and I’m just not buying it.

Why don’t you become one and try it yourself then? Oh, you mentioned you are not good with women, could it possibly be, just maybe, it’s because women have become so toxic nowadays, that your brain somehow instinctively has figured out that you are better off being socially awkward and stopped you from learning how to be good with women?

There’s no reason to block this guy, our belief is not that weak, why not have a bit fun with the tamed?

[HitmanParticipant]

go out and try living some more,marry,settle down. have a kid or two with the “love of your life “.roll the dice with your future ..you’ll probably be back with a tale to tell..oh and child support , alimony,.etc..your just not ready for the truth .you don’t have to learn what millions of men already know the EASY way ! …find out the HARD way .

[PacifistParticipant 143]

She fits the whole stereotype of the entitled, carousel-riding woman; each girl has a different father, and I’ve seen her chew up and spit out boyfriends en masse. And she and I are pretty good friends. At the point you might legitimately wonder if I’m gay, but no. Just socially awkward and not good with women — in retrospect, this is probably just as well.

What gives you any idea we would think you were gay. We consider this to be prudent behavior.

We are aware that individual women act out hypergamy and such to different degrees. We simply acknowledge that women as a whole provide little benefit in a relationship. Thus a cost/benefit evaluation indicates there is little to gain and much to lose.

[Spank The MisandristsParticipant 2308]

El Cid wrote:

I’ll never, ever get married for reasons that can be found right here. And I have no doubts about the unfairness of family law and criminal law when a man gets accused of abuse or sex crimes. But just the same, I’ll call it out when I see something that looks a little one-sided.

How can it be one-sided, when you already are aware of all these problems?

El Cid wrote:

Would you rather have an echo chamber where nobody ever has a dissenting opinion?

We haven’t blocked you, have we? We haven’t tried to get you fired just because you disagree with us have we? So just because we don’t agree with you, it makes this place an echo chamber?

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Keymaster wrote:

Are you going through life with your eyes open?
Or are you, like……. using the force.

In case of the latter one my guess is that the “deceptable tuna force” is strong with this one so much so that he takes a vision of a naslalt as a role model example to blow that one way “out of proportion”. Well then (with all due respect): deepen your surface scratching video studies quite a bit, open your eyes maybe that little bit further if need be, whilst trying to watch your surroundings a tad clearer and come back later… … much later. And then try to convince us yet again. Good luck…!

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[KeymasterKeymaster]

El Cid wrote:

Okay, okay. I came out swinging pretty hard, and I apologize.

Forget it. Not necessary.

El Cid wrote:

But I also believe in being self-critical, and trying to be as objective as possible.

You are encouraged to do that. And we ask a lot of hard questions.
An educated mind is able to entertain and exhaust a thought without accepting it.

We are WELL AWARE you can browse MGTOW content and be just as likely to say “what a bunch of crap” or “OMG I never considered that before”.

El Cid wrote:

I generally don’t like subjective terms like “most” or “some”. I’d rather find hard numbers when I can

Quite often, you don’t need them.

I present you 10 hand grenades. MOST of them will explode. SOME of them will not. How many duds would there have to be before you would agree to pull the pin??? 9? 10?? Just ONE is enough to ruin more than just your hair and weekend. How hard would I need to work to “convince” you not to bother at all?

Don’t even give it another thought.
MOST men are so convinced they can’t be convinced.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[JackinovParticipant 5229]

*sigh*

Alright. If we’re wrong, why don’t you show us how its done? Reach into that box o’ nades for us, eh?

are you a chia pet in man drag

[MecklotParticipant 608]

El Cid wrote:

Just as an aside, I saw my dad’s best friend get dragged through court on a false rape allegation, and I saw his life savings get wasted just defending himself in court. He was convicted, and eventually got the conviction overturned and even somewhat put his life back together. I have no illusions about how bad things are for men.

Yeah, that’s a bad horror story right there. That’s enough red pill to make a man go MGTOW. However, your opinions and beliefs are yours to change as you see fit. I will not convince anybody to adopt the MGTOW philosophy/the red pill.

I remember a quote said on these forums. I can’t remember which member said it but he said something along the lines of this: “MGTOW cannot sell freedom. Freedom sells itself.”

You just have to realize everything with your own eyes.

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

El Cid wrote:

I’d rather find hard numbers when I can.

I can provide some hard #s for you, based on my own experience in New York state.

My divorce cost me ~50% of my assets. It was the cheapest divorce anyone had ever heard of, including 2 different divorce attorneys, >50 guys in a divorce support group, a divorce therapist who has counseled hundreds of men that have or are going through a divorce. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Said the same thing – cheapest/easiest divorce ever!

I was married for <2.5 years; no kids. No allegations of any kind of abuse, physical, sexual, emotional, nothing.

The simplest divorce in New York state will cost a man 50% of his assets. 50% of that went out the door because my ex tried to use me for a green card.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

In this example. Who’s not convinced…. and who’s doing the work convincing?

•••••

It’s not Clooney that’s working overtime with a sales pitch grasping at any angle he can to try and convince anyone. She’s machine-gun rapid firing and hitting nothing. HE is not convinced. She should have shut her mouth before she began.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[MgtowWaveParticipant 4352]

Go research what an uphill battle father’s rights groups have. Being labeled advocates for pedophilia and child abuse when the majority of child abusers are women.
Main reason i got custody of my son was because my ex was homeless by the time I filed for divorce .She usto threaten me that if i didn’t do what she wanted I would pay child support and only see my son every other weekend. And she barely even spoke English then so by no means was she “Westernized” Women the world over feel that since children come out of their pussys children are there personal property .That is the bottom line.Courts tend to agree. Do you really think it would be a good idea to date your roommate? Do you think it would be a good idea to f~~~ and get your roommate pregnant? Are you aware that a single argument could get you kicked out of your apartment? Fyi just one phone call to the police could get you put out the door. If you are a man you are expected to just deal with it.Be it PMS or whatever else.
Daddy’s day to dance with daughter is a token jesture. Something aimed at you keeping your mouth shut and your mind distracted.
But don’t take my word for it.Just keep thinking that women are made of sugar and spice.

frankly my dear i don't give a damn

[Author]

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