Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › How is it MGTOW involves women?
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Crazy Canuck 5 years, 6 months ago.
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I am new to this, so I’ve been looking around in an attempt t understand the movement I’m identifying with. I’m finding that it’s characteristics are all over the place. The thing that puzzles me the most is trying to understand: How can you be going your own way, if you are still involved with women and because of that involvement, are still endorsing her power and influence? This is where guilt by association has some meaning. Yes, I’m advocating sexual abstinence.
I realize that sending a message to women should be of secondary importance; (the primary being finding peace and fulfillment in going your own way). But really, does being addicted to a woman constitute freedom or independence? That’s a contradiction in terms. Are we going to say like addicts do, that I can quit anytime? I think it’s time for the MGTOW movement to get real. Be strong… you can live without the blue pill.
—– for what it’s worth —–
There’s obviously different MGTOW.
1. PUA MGTOW (sleep as many women as you can)
2. Relationship MGTOW ( no marriage maybe no kids)
3. Don’t date or have sex with women, you can interact with women. That doesn’t mean he’s gay because there’s always chance of false rape. This the safest.There could be others but I’m not aware of them.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
The question becomes whether or not one can have a woman in one’s life without compromising one’s freedom and independence. Some will say yes, while others will say no. And both will be right. Some people who drink (or smoke, or whatever) really can quit any time they want; others deceive themselves, believing that they can quit when in truth they cannot.
I think that it would be entirely possible to test oneself — hit it and quit it, as they say — to understand the extent to which one’s personal freedom has been compromised or has remained intact in the wake of involvement with a woman.
OK… This is the TOW part.
Still… while I can see that on one level, another part of says… ok… we’re going to prove to women that men are pigs by using them.
I guess for me… I don’t want to be hurt, subjugated or used by women. I don’t want to have anything to do with them at all. But, to be consistent, and honorable, I shouldn’t want to do any of those things to them either.
Men have not only lost freedom and independence, but honor and dignity as well.
Oh… what does ‘PUA’ stand for?
PUA = Pick up Artist
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
@ether_ore Really great questions
How can you be going your own way, if you are still involved with women(?)
It’s empirically unrealistic to not be involved with women – if not impossible. 51% of people are women. That means even if you DONT want to associate (or meet) a woman, you are MORE LIKELY to interact with women. Women are also extremely horny creatures. And it’s a fact that showing NO interest in them actually has the reverse effect and will even heighten her desire (or attraction) even more. If you don’t want a woman around, (and even come right out and tell them so!) they will make more of an effort to infiltrate your life. It’s remarkable really.
Many MGTOW have a “sex if it’s free” attitude and “who cares?” if it’s not. They (we) can take it or leave it. In an environment where sex (without commitment) is more available than ever and women have more sexual partners than men, it would follow that MGTOW enjoy some of it. No guilt by association is required, because sex is the entire biological point between men and women. There is no need for any man to apologize for this. It is biological destiny.
“Own” is the key word in the phrase. Your OWN way. You started out by calling it a “movement”. And while it has (and will have) a profound and noticable cultural effect, it’s not really a movement, but rather a lifestyle choice that varies from individual to individual and HE outlines this on his own terms. “Ghosting” is also in our glossary and some MGTOW go “ghost” while living off the grid… while others are fully functioning citizens living downtown, with regular jobs but refuse to let women into their homes and personal lives.
The degree of MGTOW is vast and very different for each.
It doesn’t mean plenty of sex isn’t going on. Sex is the entire biological point between men and women. Living together, hand holding, marriage contracts and silly valentine’s day romantic stunts and such bulls~~~ is not. The human race will continue without all the crap women want on top of sex. And their sexuality is the reason why. Sexual abstinence may be YOUR way, and you can be sure there are plenty of MGTOW who understand and empathize WHY. Maybe that’s the core ingredient for you. But the reasons for sexual abstinence can vary greatly too…… from refusing to contract a social disease because 80% (4 out of 5) of sexually active American women have contracted some kind before the age of 21….. to refusing to have a kid, or avoiding a possible false “rape” charge. The reasons are perfectly understandable whatever yours may be. Some MGTOW also abstain involuntarily, and that list of reasons is long too. But even they are not necessarily virgins.
But really, does being addicted to a woman constitute freedom or independence?
No it doesn’t actually. NOT being addicted to women constitutes freedom and independence. A take it or leave it attitude is all that’s required. PUAs are actually more “addicted to women” and there is more on that for you below.
I think it’s time for the MGTOW movement to get real.
It is VERY real as the resounding plight for men to return to the plantation is accelerating at an epic pace, and you can read about it the countless articles published by women entitled “where have all the men gone”?.
I guess for me… I don’t want to be hurt, subjugated or used by women. I don’t want to have anything to do with them at all. But, to be consistent, and honorable, I shouldn’t want to do any of those things to them either.
That’s very noble of you. But it may surprise you that you may be confusing MGTOW with PUA’s. You must also realize and accept that consensual sex doesn’t happen unless a woman wants it to. The hit-it-and-quit-it accusation against men fails in light of the fact that women now have more sexual partners than men. So who are the hitters and quitters now?
You are much more honorable than women are, and extending them the courtesy they do not extend to you. More importantly, she may even come home and toss you a baby and say “here, this is yours” — when it isn’t. Even when a man hits-it-and-quits-it, he’s never going to force her into motherhood and 216 monthly payments. But there is an entire population of men out there unknowingly fathering children that are not theirs. Some men are even in prison – right now – after being ordered to pay child support for children that are not theirs. A man who hits it and quits it doesn’t even come close to that kind of horror.
What does ‘PUA’ stand for?
PUA means “pick up artist”… or those who practice “game” as a learned or natural male behavior. They study and adopt the behavioral traits of the “alpha” male (even though they may not be) in attempting to heighten female attraction and to get western sluts to open their legs. Common MGTOW & Manosphere terminology (including PUA) can be found on our glossary of terminology page.
Noteworthy PUA sites (random off the top) include Chateau Heartiste and Return of Kings Although ROK also many MGTOW elements and participants. You may also be interested in the opposite anti-PUA perspective from MGTOW vlogger Barbarossa in his excellent video on “Deconstructing Game”
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Noteworthy PUA sites (random off the top) include Chateau Heartiste and Return of Kings Although ROK also many MGTOW elements and participants.
So what you’re saying there’s some overlap?
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
Overlap? Not exactly… but it is very common for a man (dare I say “beta” type) who isn’t naturally gifted or “successful” with women to take an interest in PUA culture in an attempt to garner more notch counts on his journey. He is led to believe he has been doing everything “wrong”, that it’s HIS fault she left…. and if only he practiced “game”, she wouldn’t have made the exit.
( There is a certain and very real truth to this, which makes it all the more appealing. )
But, it is culturally force-fed to men that getting laid is a sign of “success”… and NOT getting laid makes him a “loser”. Any man can seen this everywhere in examples from Elliot Roger to women who perpetuate this nonsense themselves – with comments like “you’re just mad because you can’t get laid”, and “you probably don’t get laid very much” – simply because he typed something she didn’t like.
That’s what makes it so ridiculous. In making these comments, women are implying that access to the damp hole between their legs is the pinnacle of male “success”. She is directly communicating that SEX is the most valuable thing on earth (and the most valuable thing women have), when in reality, she’s effectively saying she doesn’t have anything better to offer. Too many men will believe it and buy into it. Women are counting on this illusion, because nothing is more threatening to female power than a man who isn’t remotely interested in f~~~ing her. She can no longer control or manipulate with vagina when a man arrives at the conclusion that the juice simply isn’t worth the squeeze.
So his brief stop as a PUA is short lived. Because he’s not ACTUALLY the dark-maned “alpha” lion – and will never be. He is merely pretending to be one. And, as Barbarossa points out….. PUA’s attempt to convince you that after studying what women want (as opposed to what they say they want), that “game” isn’t about – and SOLELY about -giving women what they want.
Eventually, he learns giving women what they want is bloody exhausting.
So it’s not entirely unusual that a PUA eventually begins to wear a MGTOW hat. Many of them admit this.It’s only a matter of time when a man realizes that the pursuit of women never pays…. it only costs.
And he would be more rewarded to pursue other things that pay and give him what HE wants – on HIS terms from now on.It’s very common for PUA to be a brief stop on the journey to MGTOW. So that’s where you get the “overlap”.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Keymanster, thanks for taking the time to spell all of that out. I think I understand that point of view. The problem I have with it however, is that it takes women’s attitudes and actions as justification for what I see as dishonorable behavior on the part of men. The two wrongs don’t make a right thing. I see the percentage of women in society as irrelevant. You still are not compelled to be intimate with them. Monks do it all the time.
Please understand, I doubt very much my perspective will have any effect or convince anyone because I concede the biological imperatives you refer to are indeed strong, and not only do men not have the self discipline to control themselves, they don’t even see the need to. This results from the acceptance of subjective morality and the abandonment on the part of men of a dignified self image. Just because women tell men that they are obsolete and otherwise worthless doesn’t mean men should adopt that as an excuse for their behavior, implying an acceptance of that image. If… and I say if, mind you… men take the lead and set a good example of honor and dignity; refusing to lower themselves just because the current social atmosphere is toxic, then just maybe some healing can take place. The thing is that men would have to be strong and not revert to dishonorable behavior when women (as you point out) become more insistent and start throwing themselves at men.
anyway —–for what its worth —–
The problem I have with it however, is that it takes women’s attitudes and actions as justification for what I see as dishonorable behavior on the part of men.
I get that. And agree! But I think you’ll find that MGTOW are much more about being honorable. MGTOW are much more likely to pass on a shag because they are not willing to lower themselves or compromise their virtues for it. There are also too many inherent dangers MGTOW would rather not deal with. They would sooner go without. There was one MGTOW in particular who I was reading…. who said: “the only kind of woman worth getting involved with is the kind that looks at you and goes YUM! Ignore the rest.” There would have to be a real and genuine interest on her behalf in order for him to even be slightly interested in acting on it. The active PURSUIT of it was otherwise a waste of his time and he determined this was never worth the effort. That’s what I was getting at.
The ANTI-PUA video I linked you is a more accurate representation of what you can expect to find among MGTOW. It also happens to be the highest rated video on our site, so there is a reliable indicator.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.@ether_one I agree with you.
@keymaster I don’t think the MGTOW movement isn’t going change much pertaining with women. It is until men choose not to have sex at all with women. If more than 60% of men refuse to have sex women would be complaining. Women would have to change their ways. The funny thing is men don’t need to say a think because our action of lack of action in this case would speak louder than any words.
Also barbar mentions he sleep with women that he has no future with. He thinks since she is trying to use him he should able to use her. I think it’s morally wrong. Not judging him thought it’s what I abide to. I prefer Stardusk simply because he doesn’t want sex with women. Although he stated he wouldn’t want a relationship even if the laws and attitudes of women were changed.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
You’re right . But if you REALLY want to see female attitude change overnight, watch what happens when the male pill comes to town. That will be more effective than refusing to date or marry them. Certainly more than saying “No I won’t screw you” because there are 1000 other manginas and white Knights who will fall over themselves for it.
But the male pill will give every man the decision to NOT be a father – unless he wants to be. This is a choice women don’t want men to have. Desperately. The artificial womb will be the REAL nuclear bomb which will change their attitudes and behavior overnight. Forever. The implications are huge. All the power they think they have, will be GONE.
On that day, they will even be grateful for cat calls.
In total agreement with Stardusk on not wanting a relationship even if things improved. Thanks to feminism, Pandoras box has been ripped open with such force, the lid can never be put back on again, barring some total collapse where the whole world gets amnesia. Women have finally revealed their TRUE nature, and it’s the worst thing they could have possibly done for themselves.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.To be frank I think casual sex is half the problem. Sex outside of marriage is partly responsible for feminism. The other part would be money. If men weren’t willing to have sex out of marriage women will less likely to get a divorce unless that was some kind of abuse. Abstaining from sex is the solution not a birth control pill, it’s simply a crutch to the possible solution.
Well that’s how I see it anyways. I don’t like the idea of have multiple partners in my life time.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
@keymaster
Ok… now I’m intrigued… a male pill? Are you describing something that suppresses male libido? Oh… would that there would be such a thing!… not to have to struggle so hard with the urge to sex. Men don’t need Viagra. That’s a tool of the oppressor if ever there was one. What men need is something to help with control. Anywway, I think this discussion is a good one. I am enjoying the exchange.You too CrazyCanuck. Oh… by the way… that’s O R E, Not… ONE. Ore is a malleable substance capable of refinement. 🙂 Ore is mined out of the ether; an ethereal place where thinking happens. It is mind (mined) <grin>
Keymaster said paraphrase:
Often showing NO interest whatsoever in a nearby women (no side glances ect) whilst doing something interesting, especially if it involves money or status, often has the reverse effect and will even heighten her desire (or attraction) even more. If you’d rather not want a woman around, (and even come right out and tell them so!) they will make more of an effort to infiltrate your life. It’s remarkable really.
It is very common for a man (dare I say “beta” type) who isn’t naturally gifted or “successful” with women to take an interest in PUA culture in an attempt to garner more notch counts on his journey. He is led to believe he has been doing everything “wrong”, that it’s HIS fault she left…. and if only he practiced “game”, she wouldn’t have made the exit. (There is a certain and very real truth to this, which makes it all the more appealing.)
But, it is culturally force-fed to men that getting laid is a sign of “success”… and NOT getting laid makes him a “loser”. Any man can seen this everywhere in examples from Elliot Roger to women who perpetuate this nonsense themselves – with comments like “you’re just mad because you can’t get laid”, and “you probably don’t get laid very much” – simply because he typed something she didn’t like.
That’s what makes it so ridiculous. In making these comments, women are implying that access to the damp hole between their legs is the pinnacle of male “success”. She is directly communicating that SEX is the most valuable thing on earth (and the most valuable thing women have), when in reality, she’s effectively saying she doesn’t have anything better to offer. Too many men will believe it and buy into it. Women are counting on this illusion, because nothing is more threatening to female power than a man who isn’t remotely interested in f~~~ing her. She can no longer control or manipulate with vagina when a man arrives at the conclusion that the juice simply isn’t worth the squeeze.
So his brief stop as a PUA is short lived. Because he’s not ACTUALLY the dark-maned “alpha” lion – and will never be. He is merely pretending to be one. PUA’s study women to understand what women actually want (as opposed to what they say they want) in order to get what he wants – sex. Eventually, he learns giving women what they want is bloody exhausting. So it’s not entirely unusual that a PUA eventually begins to wear a MGTOW hat. Many of them admit this. It’s only a matter of time when a man realizes that the pursuit of women never pays, it only costs… And he would be more rewarded to pursue other things that pay and give him what HE wants. It’s very common for PUA to be a brief stop on the journey to MGTOW.
Keymaster I might add the following addendum to the MGTOW journey:
Once you have become fully MGTOW there are always loose ends that need tiding up. Getting free isn’t easy. Many men have picked up “passengers” on their way to MGTOW. These non-confrontational women- wives, daughters, nieces, grandmothers…etc, would be “hurt” if required to pay for their lifestyle. Someone has to pay it. They want you (him) to keep paying it for them. They don’t want to pay the full price for them being themselves. They want him to “help.” So the tears flow. He fears sorry for them and lets them stay onboard but they rarely behave themselves. So eventually they gotta go outside just like a pet that keeps making a mess on the floor.
The flip side of men pursuing young pretty women is that the old ones are invisible. What women are terrified of, is what happened to men-less women throughout the ages. Old ugly women are left behind, unwanted, not worth the food to feed them, utterly abandoned. So you’re gonna see some tears getting free. Someone has to pay. Your tears or hers.
I think he’s talking about a male birth control pill; which is a strange notion that I never imagined until now. I agree with you about ED pills. Erectile dysfunction is actually one of the most obvious signs that there is something wrong with your cardiovascular system. Its (vi)aggravating to see the modern male population ignoring a serious health issue like this.
Lust for comfort suffocates the soul
There is no question that there are cardio problems should be looked into. but, on another level, ED could be looked at as a blessing for MGTOW <grin>
@wonko Welcome and thanks for that. ( I took the liberty of editing your paraphrase to throw it into a quote so others don’t have to read what I said again and only focus on your reply). Otherwise not altered.
@vilenord Yes I was talking about the male pill. Its’ a fascinating topic and another user (Terrato) happened to just drop a big thought on that in the “Technology section” here.
@ether_ore The topic of ED is a fascinating one. Some time ago (before I cancelled my cable TV altogether) I was confused by the number of commercials on TV about “erectile dysfunction”. WTF? For decades and centuries and millennia and ever since I can remember, women have been COMPLAINING that our dicks are working a little TOO WELL. And now we are lead to believe this is some kind of problem?? Do men really have a problem?
And then I determined NO. We don’t. Because exactly the same man would have no problem getting it up for Megan Fox, Kate Upton, Eddie Murphy’s new skag, or any Victoria’s secret model. Once again, MEN are being force-fed the idea that WE should be taking a pill in order to be able to f~~~ fat, disgusting and unbearable-to-be-around wives and girlfriends. Men don’t have a problem getting hard. Women today have never been more un-f~~~able.
So Men… don’t take a pill. Get her to take the fork out of her mouth and hit the goddam treadmill instead.
ED is not a male problem. It’s a female problem.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Can KeyMaster get an amen from the congregation!? While it can be said that male arousal signals are primarily visual, it is psychological as well. I just finished watching a youtube video about some female journalist calling men selfish for not delivering sperm so women can have babies. Isn’t this women trying to have it both ways. I thought they were complaining about rape culture; now it’s… we’re being selfish with our dicks? I mean really… do women think the following will get them laid: ‘Come here you obsolete, worthless, disposable piece of trash, I’m feeling (as the Brit on the video put it) “broody” and I have a right to your sperm. Never mind that the child will be mine exclusively even though the law says you will have to pay for it.’ ED indeed is not a male problem. ED is a man’s body telling him that it’s not worth it. It’s the dick going its own way <grin>
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