Hey all!

[AbstractParticipant 7]

Hey guys!

For the past few months, I have been “stalking” the MGTOW forums, and I have been enlightened. I realized that the information that is shared on this website is actually extremely true in society today. I completely believe the ideas behind the MGTOW philosophy, and I mainly wanted to join the forums so I can learn more.

To introduce myself, I am an upperclassman in high school, so technically I can’t really be a “Man Going His Own Way,” mainly due to the fact that I am an adolescent and not yet a “man,” but rather a “teenage guy.” But I am willing to be immersed within MGTOW. I am also raised in a household that consists of my grandparents and my single mother. Finally, I am also an Asian – American.

I have an issue that I would like the MGTOWers to address and give me insight on. Most Asian cultures are predominantly family-oriented. My mother and I often have debates, or should I just say arguments, about the idea of marriage and family relationships. I often argue that marriage is unnecessary and extremely dangerous to males in today’s society, but she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.” I view this as a shaming tactic, so how should I rebute? I always give her statistics about divorce rates, and testimonials that are written by divorced men, but she often retorts with “questionable” logic.

Thank you for viewing my introduction, and feel free to give me insights and advice. I hope to participate in the forums, and possibly make any contributions that are deemed valuable.

[FrankOneParticipant 1418]

Amongst under 30 women (Millenials), more than half of all births were out-of-wedlock. Amongst those with college educations, the proportion is lower in the US. So you’re seeing two Americas; an underclass, and the more affluent middle and upper classes. So that is the reality we live in, regardless of one’s ‘ideal’.

My answer is you won’t win this debate because it isn’t going to be fought based on a cost-benefit analysis. The best approach is to live your life according to YOUR values, not hers. I would certainly listen to advice of others and consider it, just don’t blindly follow it — especially in this case! What is the point of debating this? Just tell her you’ll decide how to live your own life, you’re an adult.

[Soldier-MedicParticipant 2566]

Abstract wrote:

I have an issue that I would like the MGTOWers to address and give me insight on. Most Asian cultures are predominantly family-oriented. My mother and I often have debates, or should I just say arguments, about the idea of marriage and family relationships. I often argue that marriage is unnecessary and extremely dangerous to males in today’s society, but she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.” I view this as a shaming tactic, so how should I rebute? I always give her statistics about divorce rates, and testimonials that are written by divorced men, but she often retorts with “questionable” logic.

Cultures aside I can only speak to my own experience and understanding.

Raised in the Unites States, I watched the movies about he end of the second world war. In Germany, there were some that held on to the possibility of victory for the Arian race, or at least victory for Germany while artillery shells rained in the streets. This blind devotion that was rooted either in indoctrination or a deluded idea that they can’t fall.

Today many women find themselves in a similar set of circumstances. Those that cling to the past or the ideals that that they understood, and doggedly cling to. In its final throes, men AND women are clinging to the past, and seeing the old ways as the sure way through the dark times in the future. Dark times that are assured as seen through the insane circumstances that we see today.

Honor and love your family. However, don’t let these tenants blind you to reality, or give you cause to fling yourself headlong in to self destruction.

Do your own due diligence and make decision rooted in enlightened self interest and logic.

"I asked you a question. I didn't ask you to repeat what the voices in you head are telling you" ~ Me. ........Yes I'm still angry.

[AbstractParticipant 7]

@frankone Understood. I never really thought about the whole point of this debate. Probably just wanted to debate for the sake of debating. But understood, my life should only be dictated by my own set of values.

@soldier-medic Thank you for your advice.

[Swen AugustParticipant 373]

a man must get married to be normal- as far as I’m concerned the correct response is NO I DON”T!

I scratch my head and chuckle as I walk away.

[MyselfParticipant 353]

Abstract wrote:

I am an upperclassman in high school, so technically I can’t really be a “Man Going His Own Way,” mainly due to the fact that I am an adolescent and not yet a “man,” but rather a “teenage guy.”

You don’t have to go back too far into history to see guys your age act like and be recognized as Men. Our society has no firm way of telling you when you’re a man, and in some ways actually discourages you from becoming one “too soon”. You’ll wake up one day and just know – and you’ll discover that it is all largely a way of thinking about yourself – it is mostly in one’s head.

Welcome!

[RennieParticipant]

Swen August wrote:

a man must get married to be normal- as far as I’m concerned the correct response is NO I DON”T!

I scratch my head and chuckle as I walk away.

The correct response to “a man must get married to be normal” is “Uh, No I don’t…”
Like this.

[Cap285Participant 6007]

Logic is female kryptonite.

You can cite facts and send her here, other MGTOW sites, MGTOW YouTube videos and the plethora of “Where have all the good men gone?” articles which clearly show the collective experience of men and factual evidence proves marriage is a raw deal for men……and I’m afraid your mom and other blue pill members of your family will still tout you should run through a God damned mine field. If she’s unwilling to listen, she’s no different than any other woman putting her fingers in her ears going “lalalalalalalalala”.

Many of us here don’t even hang out with our families that much because of our views. I hope that doesn’t happen to you, but such is the life for being MGTOW.

Good luck kid.

Fuck this planet.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Welcome! I’m glad you found this forum. It is a great learning tool, and I wish I had something like it back in my bad old blue pill days.

Abstract wrote:

I often argue that marriage is unnecessary and extremely dangerous to males in today’s society, but she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.”

You will never talk her out of this. Trying to will only frustrate you. I know: I have a mother too. By the way, Chuang Tzu (or Zhuang Zhou as he
is called these days) has all sorts of good anecdotes about living a life with no family responsibilities. Give him a read.

Cap285 wrote:

Many of us here don’t even hang out with our families that much because of our views. I hope that doesn’t happen to you, but such is the life for being MGTOW.

That is my solution too: Just stay out of the family matriarch’s reach and make obligatory visits as short as possible — that is what works best for me.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[WolveParticipant 191]

Abstract wrote:

Hey guys!
For the past few months, I have been “stalking” the MGTOW forums, and I have been enlightened. I realized that the information that is shared on this website is actually extremely true in society today. I completely believe the ideas behind the MGTOW philosophy, and I mainly wanted to join the forums so I can learn more.
To introduce myself, I am an upperclassman in high school, so technically I can’t really be a “Man Going His Own Way,” mainly due to the fact that I am an adolescent and not yet a “man,” but rather a “teenage guy.” But I am willing to be immersed within MGTOW. I am also raised in a household that consists of my grandparents and my single mother. Finally, I am also an Asian – American.
I have an issue that I would like the MGTOWers to address and give me insight on. Most Asian cultures are predominantly family-oriented. My mother and I often have debates, or should I just say arguments, about the idea of marriage and family relationships. I often argue that marriage is unnecessary and extremely dangerous to males in today’s society, but she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.” I view this as a shaming tactic, so how should I rebute? I always give her statistics about divorce rates, and testimonials that are written by divorced men, but she often retorts with “questionable” logic.
Thank you for viewing my introduction, and feel free to give me insights and advice. I hope to participate in the forums, and possibly make any contributions that are deemed valuable.

Hey Abstract,
I have also been in your situation too young to leave your family and dependent on them but knowing the risks of marriage and other aspects of MGTOW philosophy and let me be quite frank to you about this wait, take a deep breath this is going to hurt: You can’t convince her mothers do not care about whether marriage is good or bad for you, what they care about is there grand children, the money and/ or care for them when they reach old age. I had and have also been arguing with my mother and I have heard from others who argued with their mothers but know not just mothers but pretty much all women (with as far as I know no proven exceptions) are not interested in logic and reality they’re in there for their own interest and the interest of other women which is called “own group preference” it is something women have that men don’t. You can google it and easily find research that shows that for if you’re interested.
Just let me repeat it: SHE IS NOT IN THERE FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST, she has her own interests and in group preference so she will always want you to be with a girl that she can get along with to keep you within her sphere of influence a great example of how women hate having men outside of their sphere of influence were old pubs I think well you can probably ask some of the older MGHOW and they’ll give you a lot of examples but those men only spaces always got womens interest cause they never knew what was going on in there until they started protesting to forbid men from having male only spaces and let women in.
Have you ever seen a man protesting women only universities, women only gyms, women only shelters (for abuse, btw male only has been shut down by protests in recent years I can link you to some news articles on that if you wish) etc. they’re not interested in your best interest they are interested in the best for themselves and for other women it is something many people confuse, love from women is not love for the person love from a women is love for what you can do for her. Only men love a person for who they are.
I hope this clears it up a bit at least this is from what I have experienced in the same situation you are in to be true.

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

Welcome Abstract!
Just replace Men GTOW with Males GTOW and you’re set.

Abstract wrote:

she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.” I view this as a shaming tactic, so how should I rebute?

In other words, she is using ye olde “MAN UP” shaming tactic. My advice is, don’t try to rebut her ideas. Just agree with her. Tell her she’s right. Tell her you are seeing various girls and that you plan on marrying one day and have a big family. Tell her you are going out on a date, but go do whatever you want instead. Then, when you move out, slowly break contact with your mother and family and keep it to a minimum. Always be polite and inquire about their day and their health. Give generic info about your private life and lie if you have to, just tell them what they want to hear, but you go your own way.

Again, don’t try to convince them of anything, their mind is made up. Work on yourself.

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[PhantomParticipant 3328]

Hi Abstract & welcome! Along with what others have said, I’d only add this….

Abstract wrote:

I always give her statistics about divorce rates, and testimonials that are written by divorced men, but she often retorts with “questionable” logic.

You may want to break away at a pace she will consider as “you are finally seeing this her way, so to speak”, since you have gone into depth at trying to rebute her.

As long as you are living there with her, it seems to be your best option in getting her to back off with it.
It sucks when I feel like I have to give up or “stretch” my integrity, but there are times when “stretching” it is the only choice I can truly make.

I spent over 16 yrs being married in total, and I didn’t become a “normal” man until after I was finally out of my 2nd marriage, and while I was married, I felt anything but a man.

Just saying

[oruixo13Participant 23]

As many of others have said, I would simply not discuss this issue with her.
It is not possible to convince everyone about your ideas.

Just DO MGTOW, instead of preaching it. You will be happier.

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

Abstract wrote:

Hey guys!
For the past few months, I have been “stalking” the MGTOW forums, and I have been enlightened. I realized that the information that is shared on this website is actually extremely true in society today. I completely believe the ideas behind the MGTOW philosophy, and I mainly wanted to join the forums so I can learn more.
To introduce myself, I am an upperclassman in high school, so technically I can’t really be a “Man Going His Own Way,” mainly due to the fact that I am an adolescent and not yet a “man,” but rather a “teenage guy.” But I am willing to be immersed within MGTOW. I am also raised in a household that consists of my grandparents and my single mother. Finally, I am also an Asian – American.
I have an issue that I would like the MGTOWers to address and give me insight on. Most Asian cultures are predominantly family-oriented. My mother and I often have debates, or should I just say arguments, about the idea of marriage and family relationships. I often argue that marriage is unnecessary and extremely dangerous to males in today’s society, but she often retorts that marriage is “required” to be “a normal man.” I view this as a shaming tactic, so how should I rebute? I always give her statistics about divorce rates, and testimonials that are written by divorced men, but she often retorts with “questionable” logic.
Thank you for viewing my introduction, and feel free to give me insights and advice. I hope to participate in the forums, and possibly make any contributions that are deemed valuable.

Your mother is arguing like that because that she sees YOU as her provider for when she gets old, but not only that…

As a son of a single mother, she is trying to argue with you as she would do to her husband, or some kind of boyfriend. Just look at how women insists on marrying, and how much they insist of their sons to be married. It is like if she mistakenly took you for your father, or some boyfriend of her, and presses you to do the “(UNreasonable thing”.

That is “herd mentality” at it’s finest.

My advice is with the others… Just lie (I know how s~~~ty this thing is, but believe me, it is the ONLY way), but do it slowly, as if her constant talking finally went “through that thick skull of yours” and just pretend to do her bidding.

My old man once said: “When a woman tell you to do something, and to do it “this way”, men just simply nod, say “ok, thanks!” and DO IT YOUR WAY. If she ask you why you didnt do as her told you to do, just say that when the situation was in front of you, the other way seemed to fit more into the situation.

Always works.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

[AbstractParticipant 7]

Thank you for your words, guys. I appreciate it.

[Author]

Posts