This topic contains 24 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by 
Sandals 2 years, 10 months ago.
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I’m sure some of you noticed that Bitcoin surpassed the price of Gold today. Not sure if it will stay up there but I wanted to shed some light on why the price is rising so fast – and it’s not what you think.
Forget about libertarian conspiracy theories, forget about speculation. I’ve dug very deep down the rabbit hole that is Bitcoin and while it probably looks like a purely speculative bubble- after scratching the surface some more I found this is NOT the case.
In fact- at least 50% of Bitcoin usage is not speculators. In fact, most Bitcoin users have no f~~~ing clue about money, gold, investing, or even bitcoin itself.
They simply learn the minimum amount necessary to achieve an objective. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yes there are plenty of speculators like myself in Bitcoin. However most of the users have a specific pain point that Bitcoin solves.
Think Sex, Drugs, Gambling, Rock n Roll. Capital flight and tax avoidance.
1. DRUG DEALING- there exist several hidden websites where billions of dollars in drugs, counterfeit money, health insurance identities, fake passports, diplomas, and other contraband is bought and sold daily.
They operate much like ebay, with sophisticated rating systems and such. Price is cheaper than cheap and quality is the best you will ever get in your lifetime.
No I don’t use them- I don’t even smoke pot or drink anymore.
If you would like to buy a pound of pure (90%+) columbian cocaine directly from the La Zetas Cartel in Mexico that’s how you do it. No I don’t recommend breaking the law ever…
S~~~ they will even send you a testing kit to verify purity… I know this by reading and research not by doing lol.
Check it out if you don’t believe me- It’s not illegal to look. VPN + TOR
2. HOOKERS- As many of you know, backpage.com had their visa shut off a few years ago. Hookers must advertise 2 or 3 times per day and they must use Bitcoin.
They go to bitcoin ATMs and figure it out. Most actually find men to do this for them. Seriously.
3. WIKILEAKS- Wikileaks also got their chip turned off. If you want to send a donation it must be Bitcoin.
4. GAMBLING- This one is only beginning to take off. Think online slot machines, poker, fantasy football, horse races, etc.
As you know Internet gambling is illegal. Websites start up in Thailand and they accept Bitcoin- Viola.
5. CAPITAL FLIGHT- Mostly Chinese but some other countries as well are using Bitcoin as a device for moving value out of the country.
In fact, you can’t even mine bitcoins for a profit anymore because the chinese miners operate at a LOSS. They are willing to pay for the privilege of moving money out of China.
I’m sure many of you know the Chinese have many crazy ways to avoid capital controls. They like to go to casinos in Macau, go into a back room and “lose” millions of dollars.
The reality is they get buddy buddy with the casino operator and they pay him a percentage to move money out of China. Bitcoin is just another escape window.
6. TAX AVOIDANCE- Many programmers sell their services via Bitcoin to avoid paying income tax. Also by buying/selling anonymously you can avoid capital gains but again- I do not recommend breaking the law- ever.
7. HIDING ASSETS IN DIVORCE/ OFFSHORE HAVEN- I’ve heard of more than one user utilizing bitcoin for this purpose.
8. MANY SMALLER NICHE USE CASES- Young guys in Mexico use Bitcoin to buy video games on the Internet (no credit/debit cards in MX)
In fact the CEO of Netflix wants to use Bitcoin to sell its streaming services to third world countries that do not have any digital payments infrastructure.
9. THIRD WORLD SURVIVALISM- It’s not all nefarious uses. 6 Billion people in this world do not have access to ANYTHING that even remotely holds it’s value.
Venezuala, Kenya, South Africa, Argentina, Ukraine, etc etc etc. This technology is literally saving peoples lives in some cases.
Most people do not have access to the dollar, or gold, or the SP500. They don’t even have property rights. They are using Bitcoin to save money and avoid hyperinflating fiat currencies.
CONCLUSION- After scratching well below the surface, I’ve come to the conclusion that less than 50% of Bitcoin users are speculators…
Also- it will probably NEVER be a widely used mainstream currency because the technology simply doesn’t scale up and never will. Decentralization is inefficient as f~~~ and it’s impossible to upgrade the code because no one can agree on anything.
Changing the code requires full consensus of wayyy too many people- Its nice that it can’t be changed to say- add more coins, but it’s a double edged sword. That means it will never scale either.
Also- there is a SMALL but reasonable chance that this could be used as some sort of gold-like reserve asset by nations. Unlikely but possible. Don’t hold your breath on that one.
It has some clear advantages over gold, but will never be as safe as the yellow metal. There are obviously risks involved- though it’s not as risky as one might think…
DISCLAIMER- I do not recommend using bitcoin for any illegal use cases. BUT if you are hell-bent on risking your freedom keep in mind Bitcoin is NOT completely anonymous!
Unless you pay for coins using cash and take a million other paranoid steps you will not be anonymous. It is JUST FUNGIBLE ENOUGH.
Pure anonymity is possible but it comes with trade-offs- basically it doesn’t scale up well. So bitcoin is just anonymous enough to do your stuff but it’s most definitely not anonymous by default.
You can be tracked if you do not take steps to be anonymous! Monero is a cryptocurrency that is 100% anonymous but it’s almost 100% speculative.
If it’s 100% speculative its a ponzi scheme. Plain and simple. Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with a circular economy.
Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with NON-IDEALOGICAL use cases- meaning people NEED to use it in order to get their fix– whatever that may be.
INVESTING- Proceed with caution and do not invest more than you are willing to lose. There are risks involved and this is a HIGH-INFORMATION type of investment.
I made the wise choice to purchase a large amount of coins at around $200-300 per coin and I have recently sold half. I actually borrowed tens of thousands off 0% credit cards to do this because I knew it would explode in value.
I no longer have ANY DEBT and I DO NOT RECOMMEND ever borrowing money to invest unless you know what you are doing. Actually just dont do it!
I still believe there is plenty of upside available. I simply wanted to diversify my risk. I was able to pay off the mortgage on my rental property and I added the rest to the SP500 (which averages 9.2% over the last 100+ years)
Once Bitcoin hits $5,000-$10,000 I will diversify further. Based on my calculations I believe Bitcoin can easily reach $50,000-$100,000 per coin but probably not more than that.
I do not look at Bitcoin as a currency, though if it succeeds in taking 1% of currency markets that would be around $50,000 per coin.
I view Bitcoin as a COMMODITY, not a currency, with 7 or 8 major use cases.
Drugs, Gambling, Hookers are a f~~~ing HUGE market. Capital flight/swiss bank account is even f~~~ing Bigger.
These are MULTI-TRILLION dollar markets. I’m simply betting that Bitcoin will continue to consume a small percentage of each. Do the math.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST- PAY YOUR F~~~ING TAXES. It’s your patriotic duty.
I buy/sell on regulated, insured exchanges and I paid my taxes. In fact my accountants jaw dropped to the floor when he seen I made $45,000 in capital gains last year 🙂
I’m not trying to break the law- I’m a model citizen with no desire to jepordize my sweet sweet freedom. It’s no different than buying the f~~~ing Euro to me.
No I’m not going to sit here and spend hours explaining Bitcoin to anyone. Message me and I will provide you some places to start learning but I don’t have the time to explain this cutting edge technology in detail to you.
I would be here all night… And personally I don’t really care if you invest or make money. Information is Wealth- figure it out IF you are motivated.
It took me 6 months of nonstop reading to understand this technology on a deep level. I’m not suggesting you invest- I don’t care what you do.
I just wanted to inform my MGTOW brothers in case any of you are curious.
It’s been a while since I last posted, I hope you are all doing well!
Get Money not Bitches.
Not my property... Not my problem
Bitcoin is NOT completely anonymous!
And that is my problem with this digital facade. If you and I trade, Even Stevens, why does anyone else deserve a piece of that? Gold, silver, cans of soup, many pigs for a cow, toilet paper, cigarettes. Whatever the deal is, it is.
The digital part puts into other’s hands what should be yours and your business dealing partner’s private dealings. IT IS A MIDDLE’MAN’. He, it, the mechanism itself, is undeserving of this unearned power.
I shan’t be chipped.
And that is my problem with this digital facade. If you and I trade, Even Stevens, why does anyone else deserve a piece of that? Gold, silver, cans of soup, many pigs for a cow, toilet paper, cigarettes. Whatever the deal is, it is.
You CAN be anonymous if you choose. It just takes more work.
Here’s a random Bitcoin address I just pulled off the Internet:
1Au3sU31ahZe7MVP7WPhj75pqTJT2iLcYe
Good luck tying that to an identity…
I think long term a more anonymous cryptocurrency will replace Bitcoin but much more science needs to be done… Maybe by the time I’m an old man. It would certainly change things…
And then government will adapt by increasing consumption taxes or property taxes….
NOW HERE IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT DESERVES A PIECE OF THE ACTION:
This is controversial but I want you to open your mind to this…
Ask yourself….
Is it possible to own anything without government?
Maybe you are a tough guy that owns many guns. But you will go to work at some point.
And I will come and s~~~ on your lawn, start your house on fire, and rape your wife cause I’m an asshole.
Unless a police man comes and stops me.
Now if you are a millionaire- sure you can hire armed guards…
But what are the chances of you making a million dollars in a world where average folk can’t own anything or go to work without being shot at?
The libertarian utopia only works in a world filled with peace loving, rational human beings who can be trusted not to f~~~ each other over for a quick buck.
If the government did not exist, there would be a power vacuum, much like Haiti or Iraq.
And naturally the biggest baddest motherf~~~ers with the most guns would rise up and become the government.
If anarchy is the answer, why is Africa doing so s~~~ty?
I hope I opened your eyes a bit. I used to think like a crazy libertarian too.
I have evolved to “fiscally conservative, socially liberal with a libertarian bent”… er something like that. I guess I don’t subscribe to any idealogy anymore…
Also just about ALL the most advanced technology in the world was ORIGINATED by government and later taken by private sector:
Not my property... Not my problem
Here’s a random Bitcoin address I just pulled off the Internet:
1Au3sU31ahZe7MVP7WPhj75pqTJT2iLcYe
Good luck tying that to an identity…
I’m not DARPA.
Unless a police man comes and stops me.
What if I stopped you?
And naturally the biggest baddest motherf~~~ers with the most guns would rise up and become the government.
That IS government. Rule by force.
If anarchy is the answer, why is Africa doing so s~~~ty?
Low IQ population.
I hope I opened your eyes a bit. I used to think like a crazy libertarian too.
You think I’m think crazy?
Good luck to you boss in what’s coming.
What if I stopped you?
Don’t take what I’m saying too seriously. If you seen me as I wrote that you would notice a giant s~~~-eating grin on my face as I was typing.
I wouldnt really s~~~ on your lawn. I’m just trying to make a point. You WILL leave your house one day. And some crazy f~~~ will go s~~~ on your lawn, rape your dog, and burn down your house.
Because there are crazy f~~~s out there. All I’m saying is that the reason you can look out your window right now and there arent cars on fire and women getting raped and crazys with guns shooting each other is because of government.
Now I’m not going to sit here and tell you the government is some wonderful entity that does everything right. I think they do PLENTY wrong.
I’m just saying someone must have the monopoly on violence. If not them someone else. Property rights require some form of government. Can it be done better than it is now? Certainly. Is there room for improvement? Certainly.
I’m not saying your not a tough bad ass either. I’m just saying you will go to work at some point or take a vacation…. and the reason you come back to a house thats not burnt down by a lunatic is because of government. Like it or not…
You think I’m think crazy?
Good luck to you boss in what’s coming.
As of right now I do not think you are crazy. You just don’t like me pointing out that there is a role for government and anarchy isnt necessarily better. I get that.
Dont forget I’ve hung out with the Bitcoin crowd for the last 3 years and I’ve heard all the crazy libertarian utopia arguments by now- so far none of them make any sense to me.
The best we can shoot for is BETTER government, not NO government. Personally I like the idea of SMALLER government. But anarchy is just insane.
Good luck to you boss in what’s coming.
Now if you start telling me a libertarian conspiracy theory about the “great reboot” that’s coming, I will think you are crazy lol. But thats alright I love crazy people…
Not my property... Not my problem
Don’t take what I’m saying too seriously.
Alluding to ATTEMPTING to remove anyone’s freedom is serious. It’s as serious as it gets. I won’t be enslaved. So, I’m the enemy of the bank. READ ROTHSCHILD. And, at the end of the day, THEY pay your government. And, in my opinion, they blackmail them.
I agree with A government. I disagree with a fiat currency being used to buy that government off … consistently. Without fail.
Unless John Galts.
If you seen me as I wrote that you would notice a giant s~~~-eating grin on my face as I was typing.
Also, please take no offense. Banter brother, just banter. I’m sparring with you. Keep ‘yer wits about ya. All’s good. I wish you a peaceful evening.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST- PAY YOUR F~~~ING TAXES. It’s your patriotic duty.
Uh, what? Don’t you mean, it’s your matriotic duty? Since your taxes go to fund women, not men who actually do real work?
Once Bitcoin hits $5,000-$10,000 I will diversify further. Based on my calculations I believe Bitcoin can easily reach $50,000-$100,000 per coin but probably not more than that.
When I first heard about MD5, everyone was like “It’s uncrackable!” blah blah. So I looked at the algorithm, and immediately I was like, what the f~~~? I give it about six years.
It was cracked in six years.
Yeah.
Now we’ve got SHA. So I look at the SHA algorithm. Looks a hell lot like a variation on MD5 if you ask me… From the algorithm, it looks more easily crackable than MD5 to me.
Just saying…
Also, if I understand bitcoin correctly, it is susceptible to the law that computer speeds double every 18 months. Anybody else see a serious inflation problem here? What am I missing?
Also just about ALL the most advanced technology in the world was ORIGINATED by government and later taken by private sector:
You got this 100% backward, bro.
Nice post and thanks Sovereign / BlaqueJacque for the discussion.
I agree with A government. I disagree with a fiat currency being used to buy that government off … consistently. Without fail.
Yes my Idealogy is geared towards gold standard as well. Never invest based on idealogy though. Fiat is a scam but it doesnt mean gold is a great investment long term.
Uh, what? Don’t you mean, it’s your matriotic duty? Since your taxes go to fund women, not men who actually do real work?
Yea the system sure isn’t perfect. But governments around the world compete for your business. I thought about expatting but there is no perfect government.
Singapore is pretty well run but it’s twice as expensive. Opportunity costs ya know. Markets are effcient.
When I first heard about MD5, everyone was like “It’s uncrackable!” blah blah. So I looked at the algorithm, and immediately I was like, what the f~~~? I give it about six years.
Yes Sha-256 will be cracked eventually just like all crypto. It’s probably a ways off though. Keep in mind your bank account and the countries nuclear arsenal also uses sha-256.
It’s an excellent point though. I’m not looking to put large amounts in BTC- Just trying to make some profit from now until then.
Also, if I understand bitcoin correctly, it is susceptible to the law that computer speeds double every 18 months. Anybody else see a serious inflation problem here? What am I missing?
Computer speeds have nothing to do with how fast Bitcoin is mined. There is a supply algorithm that keeps this in check.
You got this 100% backward, bro.
Watch that video I posted above to have your mind blown. It’s called “smart state”. I used to think private sector did everything too…
Then new information entered the equation and I changed my view on that. Don’t take my word for it: watch the video, it’s fascinating.
Also keep in mind I have no particular idealogy regarding Bitcoin. It’s just a rational investment decision for me. I’m not saying you should invest or that I have large chunk of my portfolio there.
It’s like an index fund diversified across all black market sectors- sex, drugs, rock and roll. And I don’t have to break the law to profit from that…
Everyone loves to let idealogy color their investment ideas. I’m not trying to bring down the government or change the world or any nonsense like that.
I don’t believe in the libertarian conspiracy theories either. Upon closer examination they have no merit. It’s no different than buying the Euro to me.
In the event the exchange I use gets hacked or steals my money, I can sue them thanks to the government. That’s why I have no problem cutting them in 15%.
Not my property... Not my problem
I rent a storage facility for work, in that same facility there’s a guy who rents a couple an dhe’s got a bitcoin mining operation going in there.
I’m into computers, co-lo facilities, networking, all that junk. I’ve often thought about setting up a mining operation as well but was reading there’s only so many ‘coins’ and over half have been mined now. So seems like the gold rush is probably on the downhill slide and it’s prob not worth the investment.
In fact, most Bitcoin users have no f~~~ing clue about money, gold, investing, or even bitcoin itself.
Its only a matter of time before the rug gets pulled out and a lot of people lose hard.
So seems like the gold rush is probably on the downhill slide and it’s prob not worth the investment.
And sooner or later some new trendy crypto currency will come out and bye bye bitcoin. In reality if I want somewhere safe to put money, I’d put it into gold/silver. If I want to gamble with it I’d invest in stocks that are at least back by some company that least has value behind it because they have assets, production, and revenue. Bitcoin has got to be the one thing you can put money into that has less intrinsic value than bags full of paper money.
Sovereign, thanks for the great video link.
It’s an eye opener and reason to rethink things.
I have the same opinion when it comes to Internet and GPS but this really beefs up the argument.So seems like the gold rush is probably on the downhill slide and it’s prob not worth the investment.
I think it will get up to $25,000-$50,000 before it’s over. Keep in mind I’m not making some random guess based on good feels…
I researched the size of the markets it’s penetrating and I think it’s reasonable to suspect Bitcoin will capture 2-3% of each market.
When it crashed to $200 it was an obvious buy. Now that it’s hitting all time highs it’s an obvious time to sell some/diversify.
I do not reccommend this as an investment. Do not buy bitcoin. That being said I still own a bunch- nothing crazy though.
I will continue to capture value and I will diversify further when I see fit- based on new information hitting the market, not magical guessing based on 5 minutes worth of thought…
And sooner or later some new trendy crypto currency will come out and bye bye bitcoin. In reality if I want somewhere safe to put money, I’d put it into gold/silver. If I want to gamble with it I’d invest in stocks that are at least back by some company that least has value behind it because they have assets, production, and revenue. Bitcoin has got to be the one thing you can put money into that has less intrinsic value than bags full of paper money.
Network effects for money are extremely powerful. At this point 1000’s of alternative cryptocurrencies have come out and they have all crashed and burned. This scenario is increasingly unlikely.
Also I have no interest in “safe”. No risk no reward. I do not think Bitcoin is safe at all. I simply think the rewards so far outweighs the risks it’s worth having a few.
Gold is 99% speculative. No one is using gold for anything. Period. It’s a purely speculative bubble, or a naturally occuring ponzi scheme at best.
Bitcoin on the other hand has USE CASES and a circular economy. It a TOOL FOR ROUTING VALUE. It has value for the same reason a hammer has value.
Oil is a commodity for powering vehicles, Bitcoin is a commodity used for “regulatory arbitrage”. It’s simply a conduit for routing value.
Very few people want to hold/speculate on Bitcoin. Most simply use it to move value from A to B. People in the 3rd world hold it because it’s the closest thing they can get to the DOLLAR, which is what they really want.
This is the magic that people don’t understand. It solves real problems in the real world. Something gold will never do.
Anyways I have something like 10-15% of my net worth in bitcoin. Good enough to get some exposure but not enough to wipe me out in a disastor.
THE MOST FOOLISH THING A PERSON CAN DO IS PUT ALL THEIR MONEY IN A SINGLE ASSET CLASS. I can not stress this enough!!!
I hear people tell me all the time that they are diverse because they own many different stocks. That’s not diversity!
You want to be diverse across multiple asset classes! I keep 1/3 in stocks, 1/3 in rental property.
The last 1/3 is in currencies and commodities. This is my “risk capital”. A portion of this is in Bitcoin.
I also bought a s~~~ ton of OIL when it was in the $30’s. Lots of dollars. Some gold/silver.
That is diversity. Only a fool goes all in on one asset class.
Anyways I want to stress this: DO NOT BUY BITCOIN unless you are willing to put in massive amounts of research to become a cryptocurrency expert.
I literally consumed every piece of Bitcoin content on the internet, read the whitepaper, and even dug into the code a little. AND I speak to the developers a few times per month when I have more technical questions.
Information is wealth. There is no f~~~ing way you can sit on the sidelines and judge the level of risk without spending serious time learning. It’s way too complex.
Everyone takes 5 minutes to look at bitcoin and projects their assumptions onto it. You cannot learn bitcoin in anything less than 6-12 months of constant research.
If you’re not willing to do that- then just admit you have no clue… I dont blame you for it either.
There are plenty of things I have no clue about so I just shrug my shoulders in those situations.
I do not make assumptions about things I do not understand. I’m humble enough to admit I’m an idiot when it comes to many things. The 5 minute judgement based on fear is an emotional response.
Anyways I’m not trying to pump Bitcoin. Thats not my intention. Just wanted to explain why it quadrupled in value and how I made the easiest $45,000 of my life in 2016.
DO NOT BUY BITCOIN. Buy the S+P 500 and some rental property. Much less risk/reward. Better for average guy.
Not my property... Not my problem
Gold is 99% speculative. No one is using gold for anything. Period. It’s a purely speculative bubble, or a naturally occuring ponzi scheme at best.
Seriously? Bitcoin regularly swings 5-20% any given month and doesn’t have any physical commodity or business backing its value and you think its not speculative?
Bitcoin on the other hand has USE CASES and a circular economy. It a TOOL FOR ROUTING VALUE. It has value for the same reason a hammer has value.
If you want to actually use Bitcoin…you really can’t do anything with it that you can’t do with an online bank account, a credit card, Paypal, etc lol.
If you made a quick buck off it, I’m glad for you, but in the end its just going to be a passing fad. If it ever gets wide spread enough to where it starts to noticeably impact the use of government backed currencies…you better believe governments are going to start cracking down on it. All it would take would be for the government to pass a tax on transactions where businesses accept payment via Bitcoin and people would start unloading it.
Everyone takes 5 minutes to look at bitcoin and projects their assumptions onto it. You cannot learn bitcoin in anything less than 6-12 months of constant research.
If you’re not willing to do that- then just admit you have no clue… I dont blame you for it either.
This sounds a lot like an old co-worker of mine who got completely sucked into a sales pyramid scheme and wanted to dismiss everyone who was not interested in joining it with him as clueless, complacent, or lazy and try to justify as not being a pyramid scheme. Clearly there was no way you could know this company you learned about for 5 minutes is a pyramid scheme while he spent months/years learning about it and came to the conclusion it wasn’t!
The company certainly had an interesting web page, lot’s of “research” supported by doctors(on their payroll of course), had a lot of fancy mailings it would send out to its associates, and had lots of people blogging and posting youtube videos about how great it was(people trying to sell it of course). In the end it was nothing but a bunch of hype for an over priced product and he wasted a lot of time, lost a lot of money, and the people who were running the company are currently facing charges for racketeering and for fraudulent pyramid scheme selling of distribution rights.
That is the problem with bitcoin…sure there is a lot of crap to learn about it online…but what happens when its just crap? At the end of the day bitcoin is just another fiat currency with even less backing it than the fiat currencies of any country, the value of any commodity, or the share price of a decent company.
This sounds a lot like an old co-worker of mine who got completely sucked into a sales pyramid scheme and wanted to dismiss everyone who was not interested in joining it with him as clueless, complacent, or lazy and try to justify as not being a pyramid scheme. Clearly there was no way you could know this company you learned about for 5 minutes is a pyramid scheme while he spent months/years learning about it and came to the conclusion it wasn’t!
I’m completely sympathetic to this argument! Anything that quadruples in value you should be EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL of.
I’ll even admit that bitcoin probably WAS a speculative pyramid scheme for the first year. The way I see it, the second it gained a use case(s) that no other payment systems could fulfill- it stopped being one.
Did this pyramid scheme you speak of solve any pain points for anyone? Did it have any use cases? Was it the worlds first digital bearer instrument that can be transferred without centralized control?
Anyways, you can say what you want, but I already “won”. I cashed out 3 X the amount I put in. That would indicate to me that I was right. There is only one way to keep score.
There is no universe where I lose big on bitcoin because I already made back my money and then some. At this point I no longer purchase any or have plans to.
Now I simply withdrawl every so often to rebalance my portfolio. And I do not recommend anyone buy it either.
I dont think Bitcoin will take over the US dollar or any crazy libertarian nonsense like that. It’s just a commodity with 7 or 8 use cases.
You just calculate the supply and the demand and you can make general predictions of the price. It’s not the future of money. It’s clunky as hell.
It has value for the same reason a hammer has value. I did the math on how many people NEED this hammer to achieve their goals.
Anyways I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just wanted to offer insight into what’s going on below the surface.
Also as a side note- Beer I remember last year you mentioned something Kevin Oleary said about dividend investing. (I think it was you anyhow)
Kevin Oleary from Shark Tank owns mad bitcoins lol. He does the same thing as me- cashes out periodically to reduce his exposure. He got in even earlier than me.
Bill Gates – the richest man in the world, has said good things about the technology. He wants to use it in Africa if it ever becomes stable enough.
Brazillian banks want to use it to offer banking services to places in the Amazon where physical infrastructure can’t be easiliy deployed.
You can compare this to a bag of fiat currency and I’m okay with that. Fiat has no intrinsic value (whatever that means). Gold has no intrinsic value. Bitcoin has no instrinsic value. I completely agree.
Yet despite that- currency markets contain twice the value that the stock markets do. People make money in forex markets all day, despite fiat being essentially just 1s and 0s on a computer that have no real value…
The way I look at it- I’d rather have stocks/rental property- More sustainable over the long run. Because of bitcoin, I’m sitting on a paid off rental property and some S+P500 I got essentially for free.
I already won lol. Despite anything you say I already cashed out the bulk of what I had. So it doesnt matter at this point.
Maybe I’m scamming myself on the few remaining coins I hold. I’m comfortable with that risk.
Not my property... Not my problem
I’ll even admit that bitcoin probably WAS a speculative pyramid scheme for the first year.
It never stopped being one. It literally has no intrinsic value at all. The only thing its value is based on is are people willing to pay more for it than it is worth right now. I don’t know when the end game is going to be, but eventually that answer is going to be no, and all the people who bought in a little too late or who held it a little too long are going to eat it hard.
Its just like sales pyramid schemes…they only work for the handful on the top…the ones that got in early…nobody knows where the bottom of the pyramid is but when you find out its an awful place to have gotten in.
The way I see it, the second it gained a use case(s) that no other payment systems could fulfill- it stopped being one.
What do you mean by use case?
The way I see it is almost everyone I hear talking about bitcoin is buying into it thinking its value will go up and they can make profit off it. Isn’t it supposed to be a currency? Seems like its doing a pretty s~~~ty job of being a currency if people are using it as a speculative investment instead. As far as currencies go…I just don’t see anything I can do with bitcoin that I can’t do with cash, (e)check, or card.
Did this pyramid scheme you speak of solve any pain points for anyone?
It was an actual product…a protein drink. It was just overpriced and not any better or more useful than what I could buy at the local GNC for a fraction of the cost.
In this case(and a lot of sales cases) the scam of the company was you had to pay to become an associate(I think like 400 bucks) and you’d get commission on your sales, if you signed up associates you’d get a kickback from their sign up fee as well as a % of their sales as well. Some people actually are dumb enough to think they’re going to go recruit 10 people who will all go recruit 10 people who will all sell thousands of dollars worth of product a month and they’ll end up with a hundred people under them all making them money. In practice though, most people just end up trying to recruit and sell to people they know, and you just end up with a saturated market where nobody makes any money and a lot of them end up losers and never recoup their sign up cost. The guy I knew that was in it literally recruited more associates than customers…it just wasn’t ever sustainable but the company made a lot of money off him.
Anyways, you can say what you want, but I already “won”. I cashed out 3 X the amount I put in. That would indicate to me that I was right. There is only one way to keep score.
Right…I never said people didn’t make money off it, or that nobody will make money going forward…I’m just saying Bitcoin is a useless worthless fad and when the ponzi scheme hits the wall its probably going to be more costly than the Madoff ponzi scheme.
Also as a side note- Beer I remember last year you mentioned something Kevin Oleary said about dividend investing. (I think it was you anyhow)
Kevin Oleary from Shark Tank owns mad bitcoins lol. He does the same thing as me- cashes out periodically to reduce his exposure. He got in even earlier than me.
Might have been, but I don’t know who Kevin Oleary is and I’ve never watched Shark Tank lol.
Bill Gates – the richest man in the world, has said good things about the technology. He wants to use it in Africa if it ever becomes stable enough.
Brazillian banks want to use it to offer banking services to places in the Amazon where physical infrastructure can’t be easiliy deployed.
How would it work in poor places where the people think clean drinking water is a luxury. Its not like they’re running around with their smart phones able to make bitcoin transactions.
Besides…how would you sell them on it? “Hey we’ve got a bunch of bitcoins we paid 500-1000 dollars for, they’re great, want to buy them for 1500?” What happens when they don’t want them? It would essentially just be wealth transfer from them to us if they were dumb enough to buy in.
You can compare this to a bag of fiat currency and I’m okay with that. Fiat has no intrinsic value (whatever that means). Gold has no intrinsic value. Bitcoin has no instrinsic value. I completely agree.
Intrinsic value means does it actually have value because it has some use? Gold for example, has intrinsic value because it has industrial uses and people value it for jewelry. Oil for example has intrinsic values because we use it for heating, transportation, and lubrication. US dollars…it doesn’t. Nobody wants a bag full of dollars because they have some use for the bag full of dollars…they are only desired because you can convert those dollars into other things. Bitcoins are like dollars, completely f~~~ing useless and many aren’t even in physical form. Things like gold and oil may get bubbly every now and then, but ultimately they’ll always have value because they have a use.
Yet despite that- currency markets contain twice the value that the stock markets do. People make money in forex markets all day, despite fiat being essentially just 1s and 0s on a computer that have no real value…
Yeah…they’ll skim a few % here and there as the relative value of one currency changes in regards to other currencies. You don’t get people that picked up 6 pennies in 2010 and are now sitting on 1260 dollars…which is what Bitcoin has done. No chance in hell is it going to be sustainable.
The way I look at it- I’d rather have stocks/rental property- More sustainable over the long run. Because of bitcoin, I’m sitting on a paid off rental property and some S+P500 I got essentially for free.
Oh I agree. There will probably be people that make money off it going forward…all I’m saying is I don’t see how Bitcoin values will be sustainable long term…especially when its supposed to be a currency and all the hype I hear about it is from people pumping it up as an investment. Its a matter of time before it collapses hard.
I dont think Bitcoin will take over the US dollar or any crazy libertarian nonsense like that.
This is why I don’t see any value at all in it. I’ve heard people literally trash the dollar because its a “fiat currency” then in the next breath say how great Bitcoin is. Its just like uh…what do you think Bitcoin is? Or I’ve heard people bitch about one world government and all that stuff…then talk about how awesome bitcoin is. Uh…why would you want the whole world on a single currency if you don’t want a one world government? Plus its not even like its safe from the government or anything…there have already been cases where they have seized bitcoin purses. There was a point in time where the US government thanks to the FBI was the largest holder of Bitcoin lol. The whole Bitcoin thing to me is just a bunch of hype…I’m glad you made a nice hit on it, its great to see a fellow MGTOW doing well…but I think in the end a lot of people are going to lose their pants on Bitcoin.
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