Home › Forums › Relations~~~s › Girlfriend talking of marriage
Tagged: girlfriends suck, marriage sucks, MGTOW
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Anonymous 4 years, 10 months ago.
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Hi gents!
I’m new to this forum and the MGTOW movement almost entirely.
I have to be honest and say that I’ve known of MGTOW but I tried to dismiss it as a bunch of guys being overcautious – I want to say this was about a year ago, roughly(?)
I’m in a long term relationship (2 years) and a couple of weeks back she brought up the topic of marriage. As I had dismissed the notion of MGTOW, probably out of ignorance, I thought I was up for it. I mean, I’ve always wanted kids and a family and the security that marriage can bring with it. (Or so that lie goes).
Caveat: I realised today that you don’t need marriage to have a family/kids; adoption is a single man is also possible. I’m not thinking about having kids now, just the possibility.
Today, I was looking at the trending topics on Facebook and saw an article that covered the CEO of an energy company was ordered to give his ex-wife just shy of $1B!!! That’s $995,400,000. I was surprised and angered to read that commenters were finding this acceptable. The wife went on to try and claim alimony but the judge decided not to. They don’t have children, she is an executive of a company; her income shouldn’t be an issue.
Anyway, I think to myself, why would anyone in their right mind open themselves up to that kind of liability?
Also, as a side note, prenups aren’t recognised where I live (UK) EXCEPT, and of course, there’s an exception, where the person who is trying to claim for alimony is a man. There was one case where a wealthy woman was being divorced and the man sought alimony. The man signed a prenup and the judge (who was female) said that the prenup was binding and he didn’t get a penny. Even though, there are so many cases where a man’s prenup fails in court and the wife is awarded all sorts of settlements.
I have been reading a vast amount of comments on this forum from men who are already married (sorry, gents) and aren’t having a great time. It would be an insult to all of you if I were to blindly enter into the contractual, lifelong slavery that you guys have to endure.
With that being said, I’m now going to have to go back on the conversation I had with her. On the plus side, depending on how she reacts, she may either validate my concerns by going bats~~~ crazy and defending the idea of marriage a little too much or she’ll accept it and things will be alright. I’d like to think she’d be fine with it. Who knows?
The more and more I think about it, the more obvious it is that marriage only has one winner.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this website, you may have just saved one soul from modern day slavery!
Good luck to everyone in the s~~~ty marriages.Thanks again.
Glad to know that you’ve been around and learned from the wise folks here and I hope you find the answers you’re looking for after the discussion with her. Take it from me though mate, you dont need to be married for a bitch to try n f~~~ up your life.
I was with a girl for 3 years and we had a little boy together but once I ended things, it got fairly nasty though not as bad as some men here have had it.marriage only has one winner
You are exactly right there, marriage is for women and their security from ages long past and is now redundant. A wedding is a way to spend a fortune on absolutely nothing.
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
As KeyMaster has said on this forum before: Marriage is for women and homosexuals.
If you are a man, a marriage contract fails every risk/benefit check-up, no matter how you approach it.
My reccomendation is that the next time you talk with her, ask her this.
“Why do you want me to sign a marriage contract?”
Make emphasis on the CONTRACT part. That way you take out any sort of romantic Disney bulls~~~ nature out of it and serve it up for what it is.
There is no way afterwards that she can properly argument her reasons to you, as every reason will be something that is a benefit to her, not to you.
The right man at the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.
Well, your head is in the right place, and You know just by reading other guys posts that Marriage isn’t what our Great Grandfathers experience was. To a blue pilled individual, 2 years of dating sounds like the right amount of time for marriage because You have some insider knowledge of that person right?, wrong. Guys who have been Married for well over 20 years can’t even figure out what makes their wives tick.
I dated for well over 3 years(included living together) and thought I knew My Ex Wife like nobody else. The joke was on me, as we went into our 7th year of marriage, she lied about wanting kids (she had an implanon put inside of her without me knowing) and lied about an extra marital affair for well over 3 years. Yeah, needless to say, I was shocked, I thought I knew this Person, and that This Person was the One for me.
I’m not trying to discourage you from getting Married, because what you do with Your Life is actually none of my business, however to truly know someone you’ve got to know them a loooooong time. Like you pointed out, there are Single Men who do Adopt to have Children. Divorce sucks, and not only that it’s expensive as f~~~, and thank God I didn’t have any children with my ex wife.
I agree with what Yuri said.
that piece of paper changes a woman’s mind and personality quickly.
"If You have the Tooth of a Whale, You must have the Whale's Jaw to hold it". (i.e. One Must have the right qualifications for leadership) -Hawaiian Proverb
“Here’s a contract. Sign it and there are 50% odds you will lose everything. Oh, if you don’t lose everything, there are 90% odds you will be miserable to the point of despair.”
“Um… That don’t sound so good.”
“Go on! Man up and sign!”
“Duh, okay. She’s not like that. It’ll work out for me this time … ”
Like P.T. Barnum said …
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Of one thing I’m certain, and that is MGTOW and Marriage are not compatible in any shape or form. It’s one or the other. Choose wisely grasshopper.
The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.Hi Will. Good line of thinking you have there. And this is not a problem. This is an easy one.
Write your OWN marriage contract. Yes I’m serious.
Outline ALL of your terms. TO YOUR LIKING – no matter how ridiculous.You want her to greet you at the door when you come home wearing nothing but a smile, a beer and a blow job?
Write it down.
• You want her to mop the floors weekly? Write it down.
• You want her to nance around in maid outfit wearing bunny ears? Write it down.
Write everything down that YOU want. What YOU expect. And what YOU are willing to do. ALL of it.
Don’t hold back. Make sure she knows, any breach of this contract and the marriage is void.Put it on really nice paper. Maybe in a very nice font. Then add this right at the top….
#1. You will shut the f~~~ up whenever I request it.
Now, she will have a problem with this. They always do. Because as far as every woman is concerned, “marriage” is about HER getting whatever the f~~~ she wants, while your wants, needs and desires are a non-consideration. And if she’s not “happy”, she expects the grand windfall and a huge payout.
Shutting the f~~~ up is asking NOTHING from her. It takes less effort than talking. It even takes less effort than applying lipstick. If she is not willing to DO NOTHING to pleaser her husband…. then she is simply not marriageable. For all the bulls~~~ women expect men to do in “marriage” to make them “happy”, if she won’t even STOP TALKING to please you, do not make her your bride under any circumstances.
Its the perfect out. And you can call her out on this. So the next time she brings up marriage, hand her YOUR marriage contract and eagerly hand her a pen. She will run screaming for the hills. Albert Einstein actually had this stipulation in his marriage contract. It’s pure genius.
Enjoy.
Use your imagination here and let it run wild!
More men need to be writing their OWN marriage contracts if they are going to be dumb enough to sign a marriage contract. When women get a whiff of it and learn that men will get their needs met or there will be no wedding, they will learn to adjust their f~~~ing attitudes.
Consider the concept of an engagement ring. She EXPECTS you to work a whole year to save 2-3 months of after-tax savings just to ASK FOR PERMISSION to love her until death. This is an automatic expectation. That’s 5000 hours of your labour. It’s one entire working year of your life – regardless of economic level. If you agree to this, you are now in a position to EXPECT 5000 hours of her labour – just to be even with the ring! And she wants you to KNEEL DOWN and give it to her?
OK. Let’s say you EXPECT her to make a sammich every single day – which takes 5 minutes. In order to be even with the ring, she would have to make you a sammich every day for 145 YEARS. And since she wants a man to KNEEL DOWN and present her with a ring…. you now get to EXPECT her to kneel down when she brings you the sammich. Every single day. For 145 years. Or she can make you 3 sammiches a day for 50 years. Leave that up to her.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I dont understand the idea of even CONSIDERING marriage in any way, shape, or form. To any man who is interested in it, I have one question… What is the benefit for you?
Simple as that.. Name ONE benefit you will get out of a marriage that you can’t get by being single. Please, enlighten me.
Sex?… Seriously..? Anyone who knows a married couple has seen how sex declines immediately after marriage.. Plus, getting sex outside of paying for alimony, child support, and dealing with constant nagging is extremely easy in today’s “hook-up” society. Sex should never be a reason to get married.
Companionship?…… Once again, seriously!? Why do you need companionship from a woman? Be more independent, you will benefit in the long run both mentally and physically. The real truth to needing “companionship” is that men are horny… You know that feeling after you blow a load? When her bulls~~~ becomes less tolerable? That is “companionship.” Prior to sleeping with a woman, it is easy to listen to (and most likely ignore) anything she says. After you’ve f~~~ed her, do you really want to listen to what she says…? Seriously..? (Please think this through)
“Security?”… You’ll notice this is in quotes for a reason.. Security in relationships DOES. NOT. EXIST. Marriage or no marriage, you are not secure in your relationship whether you are dating Pamela Anderson or a nun. Women are scandalous, and will do whatever they can to gain attention. She will move to the next guy who can provide more than you whenever she gets the chance. Security is not a realistic idea when it comes to a relationship (and especially marriage).
Tax benefits?… alright, this seems to be the last act of a desperate debater when trying to justify marriage. Are we seriously to the point where we are signing a contract meant to be “for life” to get a tax break? How s~~~ty is your job/income?… Frankly, do you really want to get married if the greatest benefit is to get a tax break? (if that is even accurate, I personally do not know how the tax breakdown works. Nonetheless, it doesn’t matter… a tax break isn’t a reason to get married either way).
…… I’m out. WHY!? What reason is there for a man to get married…?
Welcome to MGTOW!
At least 88% of all divorces end up with the female financially benefiting.
Prenups do pretty much dick all in courts now adays, so don’t count of them 😛Remember, there is a reason why 80% of divorces are initiated by the female.
Lastly, you should brace yourself for a barrage of EXTREMELY DIRTY TACTICS.
If she doesn’t go bat s~~~ crazy and accuse you of rape or whatever 😛
You should be prepared for her trying to get pregnant ( by your or another person ) in order to guilt trip you into a marriage… it’s a very common tactic, and if you go around on forums and even just strolling on facebook, you’ll find out just exactly how disgustingly common it is.My Goal: To Leave Society.
It’s been said here before but you’ve got ask yourself this one question: “What’s in it for me?” You like a girl, you want to spend time with her, share your experience with her, make love to her… that sounds great. You’re doing it already… congratulations!
So why bring her family and some lawyers and the government into it? As Doug Stanhope says “If marriage didn’t exist, would you invent it?”
If marriage didn’t exist, would you invent it?
I LOVE that! Another grenade for the arsenal.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.When a man is in that transitional phase (ie., still taking the red pill daily to ward off blue pill tendencies), it DOES seem appealing/difficult to rid one’s self of societal expectations. However, all that a man needs or could want in this life is directly at his disposal.
- Kids? Adoption/surrogacy.
- Happy home? Done
- Companionship? Find yourself a round-the-way girl and never give her the key
I wouldn’t say it’s natural to want the marriage contract, but it is ingrained in us. And let me tell you, RESOUNDINGLY, Will, it’s a loaded dice where the man ALWAYS loses. Cupcake/soon-to-be-ex has only ever worked part time, and is now financially raping me so that she can enjoy the financial benefits of me, my good career, and my MBA. She also enjoys the kids 80% of the time, was the one that filed for divorce, and will get half of my retirement (I’m 31 so I can still rebuild that over time). And even though this whole divorce is scarring certain parts of me financially, it’s also liberating me to live my own life and be the father I want to be.
Make me no mistake – we are not curmudgeons, neckbeards living in Mom’s basement. We’re the divorced dads making hefty salaries but still struggling to make ends meet b/c the gold-diggers whores cashed out – figuratively and literally.
Maybe you’ve found yourself a unicorn. I don’t personally believe in that, but maybe you do. Ask yourself – if she’s really that great, why do you need to marry her? Why do you even need to live together? I believe in love. Hell, I would LOVE to have a long-term FWB that has mutual respect, boundaries, and understanding. But as for MARRIAGE – I’m done. Forever.
I’m a finance guy – so you MUST look at the risk vs. reward. In quantitative terms, the risk is quite literally infinite. She can take you to the cleaners, get outlandish child support and alimony, and your failure to pay for whatever reason lands you in JAIL. Yes. Total loss of freedom. Half your possession and you might end up in jail. INFINITE risk.
The only way a rational individual should adopt a contract with infinite risk is infinite reward, and even then, it’s a toss-up. The marriage contract does not offer infinite reward. It’s rewards are VERY easily replicated on an individual level.
Rather than making Divorce easier, we should be making Marriage more difficult…
If I found a Unicorn, I would F~~~ It. I would Never Marry it.
Never. Get. Married. Traditional Mirage is Bullshiet.
Hi
I have noticed a lot of mgtow and marriage talk about costs vs benefits and how the costs outway the benefits.
I agree buy I look at it this way
I use a system called antifragility vs fragility (from taleb’s book called antifragile)
The idea is to identify fragile situations and protect yourself from these risks.
Fragile is something with limited upside and a massive downside. Marriage for a man seems to fit the bill.
Antifragile is limited downside and near unlimited upside.
As a man what do we get out of marriage? The most we can expect is to be socially accepted and legally tied to 1 person. At it’s best you may like the person you are with and they may support you. Maybe you have children who love you.
Thats the best you can get. Thats your upside for a successful marriage.
Your downside is a massive claim on your productivity for as long as your legal system allows. The more productive, the greater the claim. So the downside is a near unlimited claim on your resources and future resources.
So marriage for a man is FRAGILE, there is more downside than upside.
For a women it’s the opposite
Her downside is limited, it’s putting up with you and letting you sleep with her on your birthday. All while spending your cash on s~~~e you don’t want or need 365 days a year.
Her upside is massive and only limited by your earnings potential. As the laws are all stacked in her favour she has near unlimited upside and next to no downside.
For a women marriage is ANTIFRAGILE
There is no women on this earth who doesn’t want to tie the not, and no wonder. She can only benefit from marriage.
As a mgtow what do we do.
In talebs work he explains that it’s your job to remove fragility from your life. By doing this you get robustness. Freedom from harm
So is it a mgtow aim is to be robust to women? I believe it is.
To become robust we need to…
Get all your wealth and put in trusts. You create the trusts and become the trustees. This is to stop any women laying claim to the money and assets you have. As tecnically you do not own any money or assets the trusts does. You are allowed to benefit from the trusts however YOU are legally poor. (take legal advice and base the trusts in different countries with strong stable laws and no legal aid, the aim is to make it as financially difficult for her to get at your cash, with financial bankruptcy through massive legal fees being the prefered option).
Do not marry as this is fragile
Do not have kids as this is fragile, she can lay claim for the child for 18 years (where I live), if you want kids adopt.
Have a full cctv in your home for your security. (which she does not know about)
Being robust means you can have money, houses, investments but you do not legally own it. If accidents happen your income is legally nil.
I’m happy to share my net worth of zero with any women. Yet still live the high life.
Being robust means you can have relationships with women, they just cannot get your long term productivity. They get only what you are willing to share. If they try grab it long term, your financial structures are designed to f~~~ them up.
Anyway I hope you found my red pill useful, as I have benefited from the red pills you have offered me..
All the best.
and dont forget this is not legal advice but information for your benefit.
Marriage IS a sucker’s bet. That is a FACT! Also, as Deus Ex Machina already alluded to…you will NEVER truly know who she really is until when (not if) she is no longer 100% satisfied and feels slighted because you, her trained doggie, got tired of performing on demand. Then you will find out what she is REALLY made of.
Ask yourself this question; Why is she bringing it up now? Is she late 20s and about to hit the wall? Is she dying to have a baby? Has she already been married and now post-30 with a kid?
2 years is nothing to get to know someone. F~~~, you wouldn’t be any better off if you could know her 100 years before marrying. There are way too many factors, societal and legal, that ARE stacked against you. Best to make the assumption that if you marry you will get taken to the cleaners emotionally and financially. It will take many years to recover from both if you can.
No offense but any man contemplating marriage in this day and age needs to have his f~~~ing head examined. Take that from a guy that managed to fall for the mythical NAWALT twice. Well shame on me but I’ve learned my lesson now!
MGTOW FOREVER BABY!
HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...Will,
I have this question, but this question is for your girlfriend. It is not for you. Please pass it on to her, pay attention to her answer and relay back to us here. This is not a set up and I’m not being sarcastic. i am very interested in the answer that any woman gives to this question.The question is: What is it EXACTLY that we are going to accomplish married that we cannot/are not already accomplishing?
House, kids, family, insurance, estate plan, emotional commitment and sexual monogamy etc can all be accomplished by two single people with no issue, problem or resistance. In the days before paternity testing, and mass literacy, wills and estate plans were not readily available when someone died unexpectedly. Marriage of his parents was the only thing a medieval person could do to establish what he/she should inherit in the event of the untimely deaths of the parents. If the parents were wealthy enough, the inheritance was worth fighting over. And if the heirs were wealthy enough to raise armies, those inheritance fights could and did turn into wars. Today, not so much…
Please ask her what she believes can be accomplished with marriage today that can’t be accomplished any other way. I personally have no desire to ever get married again. But I am very interested in the reasons given by anyone who would.
Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you
I concluded that there hasn’t been, for many years, a practical reason for me to get married. I really don’t like children, so reproduction is hardly a motive. If I wanted to have sex, I could always rent it. If I needed my place cleaned and my meals cooked by someone else, I’d hire a housekeeper.
As far as finances are concerned, I’m effectively self-sufficient but, when the time comes for me to inherit my father’s estate, I’ll have a bit more money to spend.
“Guys who have been Married for well over 20 years can’t even figure out what makes their wives tick.”
True! Two decades into marriage, an invoice paid, came indirectly across my desk.
Lack of familiarity necessitated looking up abbreviations: Testing for Gonorrhea, Syphilis, herpes A, Chlamydia at “Blahbluh Women’s Clinic”.
She’d told me, the last seven to nine times she “turned me down”, that she had a urinary tract infection.
For men, marriage “locks in” nothing good.
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
Anonymous2More men need to be writing their OWN marriage contracts if they are going to be dumb enough to sign a marriage contract. When women get a whiff of it and learn that men will get their needs met or there will be no wedding, they will learn to adjust their f~~~ing attitudes.
And this is where my low level MGTOW brain makes a little sidetrip to BDSM again where contracts between dominants and submissives are common. They aren’t even marriage contracts, but clearly state what needs need to be met in order for the relationship to continue at all. It’s surprising how submissive women respond to this, far more favourable then you would expect. Why even marry a woman, if you can get her to agree with shutting the f~~~ up at your request, or even wear a ballgag in your presence?
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