Gender is not a social construct

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

You hear it all the time, and I’d like to point out it’s bulls~~~

They always say, gender is a social construct, men and women are equal. So what does the term “manly men” mean in this video then? That means there is a difference in men and women, one that women will only acknowledge when it benefits them.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[MalfunctionNeedInputParticipant 257]

There has to be a label for everything, a category so people can file it away. Isn’t that where discrimination begins?

Ever heard of “intersex?”

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. --Einstein

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Silverstone the Second wrote:

They always say, gender is a social construct,

Correct. Gender is not a social construct. But, how relationships and cultures express gender are social constructs. Clothing to courting rituals vary from across the world, and throughout history.

MalfunctionNeedInput wrote:

Ever heard of “intersex?”

That is a good question. How should a MGTOW approach the issue of intersex people?

[RoyDalParticipant]

Gender specific behaviors can be observed in the cradle — long before any possibility of social constructs could have influenced these boys.

The social construct theory is a load of un-composted steer manure.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

MalfunctionNeedInput wrote:

There has to be a label for everything, a category so people can file it away. Isn’t that where discrimination begins? Ever heard of “intersex?”

We need to define some terms here. The human mind is good at discriminating… identifying the similarities and differences between things for the purposes of categorization, understanding. and evaluating. A discriminating taste is one that can tell good foods and drinks from bad, ones, for example, based on a detailed and experienced undstanding of the source, ingredients, preparation, presentation, etc.

Discrimination in the legal ense… making judgements about a person based on thei group, category or class into which we have assigned them and then using those judgements to deny them equal access to jobs, services, etc. in the public realm, is different. This form of discrimination is typically driven by the LACK of deep understanding of the individual… by quick judgements based on generalized experience. It’s not really “discriminating” in the first sense of the word at all, it’s really just judging someone based on stereotypes and treating them negatively as a result.

The process of understanding starts at simple categorization… this is a fruit, that is a rock, you are a man… and then, given the time, opportunity and will to look more closely, becomes more specific and individualized from there. A cherry, basalt, a MGTOW. We use this process because we need to make quick decisions about the world around us and don’t have the time to dig deeply in all cases.

Being judged as part of a class where some other member of that class has somehow f~~~ed it up in the other person’s mind for everyone is a drag, to be sure. When I go to Japan I am discriminated against because they associate me with the only Americans they know… big, dumb, rapey types… the ones that get their faces in the papers. But once they take the time to get to know me, they realize I am an individual and then judge me again… big, dumb drink-buying type… and they can choose to like me based on my own actions.

Now, as for biological sex… this is a matter of there being two clear and distinct categories into which 99.5% of humans can be grouped and 0.05% can not. Persons with chromosomal variations who exhibit non-polar primary and secondary sexual characteristics at birth don’t fit into the categories because they are defective. Sucks for them but there it is. There is not a spectrum of biological sex, there are two biological sexes and a spectrum of biological sex-related birth defects.

Of course these birth defects no more disqualify a person’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness any more than being born with a cleft palate, a hart defect or missing limbs does, it just makes it difficult to decide how they fit into the scheme of things because our species is highly focused on the male/female dichotomy, as you would expect any sexually reproducing species to be, and we are weird about where we poop and primp, as you would expect a culture to be when it is as highly focused on social appearances and sexual attraction as we are.

And yes, I’ve known an intersexed person. She identified as female and her genitals were around a 4 on a scale of 1-7 leaning toward the female-normal appearing. But she was very masculine in her countenance and attitude so it was clear even without knowing that she was intersex that there was something unusual. In any case, she used the women’s bathroom.

Now, should she and the other 1 in 2000 some-odd individuals who are born with noticeably atypical genitalia get their own, third sex and, given that these people experience a very wide range of conditions, many of which are not visible and don’t show up until later in life, should THEY all get lumped into a single room together? No and no. Should the rest of us be aware of their existence? Yes. I wasn’t and now I am and that is better for me and better for any intersexed person I may run into. Where should they poop and primp, then? That’s tricky. But let’s have a discussion about that… not make up some bulls~~~ about sex plasticity to confuse the issue that people only want to poop and primp away from the eyes of people who might want to f~~~ them.

So there are some people who have biological sex defects. Does this mean that biological sex is not binary and that to say so is discriminatory? It may offend you, but giving offense is not discrimination so no, not even, snowflake. Would it be discriminatory of me to get my hands down a girl’s pants, find an atypical something that’s half vagina and half penis and decide I don’t want to go any further than that? No. Would it be discriminatory of me to be freaked out by this and kick her out of the house? It would be s~~~ty and unfortunate, but not discriminatory. Would it be discriminatory if I refused to hire her for a publicly posted job because she’s not a “real woman”? Yes, that would be discrimination under the law.

If we’re going to use a word like discrimination, let’s try to apply it correctly. Someone doing something you don’t like out of ignorance or personal preference does not automatically make it discrimination in the legal sense. It may be offensive, but so far doing something offensive is not legally actionable. Not yet.

[MalfunctionNeedInputParticipant 257]

I’m not really sure if you’re directing this at me DocFenderson or just explaining it to us. I’ve heard of biological sex defects although I did not know the statistics were as you’ve said 1 in 2000 individuals, it’s many more people than I thought.

As far as the word discrimination is concerned, I was using it in terms of comparing and contrasting things, understanding that things are different. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination

here’s an exerpt: the ability to understand that one thing is different from another thing

Sure I understand that discrimination doesn’t only mean that and there are other “different” definitions, not really just slight variation, such as the legal use one you mentioned although I was looking at this from the basic definition above. It’s funny how it has such a negative connotation to everyone nowadays though.

My point is, do we have to categorize everything in life (herbivore man, intersex)? Apparently we do as you’ve said by nature humans are discriminatory, so that answers my question. I just feel as people we overdo it sometimes though. Thank you. I have a better understanding of intersex now.

What do you think about the whole “Herbivore man” thing though Doc?

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. --Einstein

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

MalfunctionNeedInput wrote:

I’m not really sure if you’re directing this at me

I wasn’t trying to tell you anything in particular, just you brought up the question and I felt like talking about it, I wasn’t sure which kind of discrimination you meant and felt the word itself needed some treatment.

You’re right, it’s curious how easily that word is applied these days. I think it’s a lot more powerful to say “rape”, “discrimination” and “racism” because these words have legal power than it is to say “treated me in a manner that I didn’t like”.

The problem is that it’s not expanding the meaning of those words so much as it is eroding them.

MalfunctionNeedInput wrote:

What do you think about the whole “Herbivore man” thing though Doc?

I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in Japan and have seen this thing close up. My gut feeling is that Japanese men have been feminized by their food. On the whole, they’re not manly men going their own way so much as they are girly boys. This is SO common in Asia that I have to believe there is a much larger issue at play than mere social and economic dynamics.

Having said that, the social consequences are real. Guys are dropping out and women hate it. Japanese girls (the hot ones, anyway) want men who have passion and desire… for cars, clothes, money, success and, above all, hot women. Of course they do. That’s how they get their s~~~. They’re getting sick of servicing the older, tiring generation of men who still want to f~~~ and they’re not getting anything off these young, feminized dudes and they’re over it.

The frumpy girls like the herbivore men because they don’t have to compete for their attention yet even they want some loving now and then which they aren’t getting. They cover it all up in the wrapper of LOHAS (lifestyles of health and sustainability) but really it’s just desexualized kids with no ambition eating tofu sprouts and wearing knit caps. Like Seattle in the 90’s but without the cool music and good coffee.

You can see their culture dying. You can sit there and watch it happening.

MGTOW is different, though. I’m sure there are some feminized men in this movement, as there would be in any movement, but from what I’ve seen, most men here aren’t dropping out because they lack ambition and the desire to make a better life for themselves, they’re dropping out because they’re sick of being draft horses for women and their children. In my opinion, MGTOW may produce less and consume less, but not because we’re lazy or demasculinized, rather because we’re focusing our resources on ourselves and have realized this means we don’t have to expend as much time, energy and treasure to have happy, productive and meaningful lives on our own as we did when we thought of ourselves as part of a “greater whole”.

[Author]

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